JonDeutsch

Hey all,

I currently have an 05 MT TSX. Really happy with it. Yeah, the driver lock just died, and there are a few dings and rust spots that I need to work out, but overall it's a great car, a lot of fun to drive, and quite comfy to boot.

However, I'm just about to end payments, and my eyes are open to figuring out my next car. By default, I'm looking at the 09/10 TSX, but this is where I need your help. I don't want to buy my 4th Acura in a row! I want to try something different for a change. Y'know.. smell the roses. Explore foreign territory.

However, upon quick review of in-class cars, there seems to be nothing out there that really competes! Is this true?

Three reasons I want to look elsewhere: size, feel and speed.

The 09 got bigger (bigger than I want/need), the electronic steering reduces the feel of a sports sedan, and I would like some more low-end power. I don't love compromising 0-30 just to have amazing 30-60.

And three reasons why looking elsewhere as failed me: price, features and reliability. I don't want to spend more than $35k, and I want a car that supports NAV+Traffic w/re-routing.

Now you can see why I seem to be stuck. Is there really any other car out there that is <$35k, has NAVI+traffic, and has Japanese-like reliability?

I guess the only thing I haven't fully considered are 2-3 year old cars... any ideas?

I've configured a new A4, and not only does it have no traffic, but it's $42k well-equipped.
Same with the 328ix.
The G37 is a bullet, but is it even close to being nimble? It looks huge.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks,
Jon

patcracks

you need the 2010 v6 tsx

JonDeutsch

Patcracks,

Perhaps... but I really do love my MT! Y'know? Plus, when is that V6 coming out? And will there be an MT V6 coming out as well?

Thanks,
Jon

patcracks

I'm not sure but theres a big thread on the v-6 check it out.

LuvMyTSX

V6 is supposed to come out this summer, but AT only.

I would try the G37 if I were you. It's got the performance and price, and I think pretty much all the features you want. The only thing is I think most other manufacturers don't allow you to fiddle with the navi when the car is in motion. That really sucks, IMO.

It's really tough to beat the TSX for price, features, and reliability.

Also maybe try the Subaru Legacy. I'm not sure what features it has, though.

ressling

I would say no, honestly. I looked around at a lot of different cars when shopping and ended up w/ an '09 TSX.

The only other car I would consider if I were you would be a Lexus IS 250, otherwise, stick with your TSX. I still like the 1G TSX's a lot too, and came close to buying one.

As for the 2010 TSX, I think it will be played out. Just another excuse for Acura to charge more for a TL and bump the TSX out of an "entry level" price range...

I can't relate, but I'm sure it's a great feeling to not have car payments. Keep that in mind!

Just my

katmai

I have a fully optioned 07 Altima 3.5SE which I like just as equally as the TSX. I bought it a couple years ago for 30k, but its equally equipped, has much better road feel/sportyness (its 300 lbs lighter than TSX), and a V6. I like them both and I need to get rid of one, but I can't decide which. Equipment-wise they're practically twins except: the Altima has a V6, better sounding stereo, much roomier....TSX has weather, a nicer feeling interior, slightly better mpgs. Overall my main impressions are the Altima is much more of a blast to drive, even in everyday traffic, but the interior doesn't feel quite as luxo as the TSX. I'm getting older but I still want something thats fun to drive.

G37 is nicer, but as you said it costs more. I think overall it has the best bang for the buck fully loaded compared to the competition in that price range.

spurfan15

Regarding the new TSX, here are my thoughts. I like the styling of the car. I generally like the interior and nav system. I don't like how they cheaped out on a few things like door handles. I also don't like that it has gotten bigger. I REALLY don't like that people are having engine pinging problems -- that is basically a deal breaker for me. I could do the new TSX in a future, more reliable model year without that problem, but I don't think I will buy with so many people experiencing that problem.

I've been researching cars to buy for 3-4 years now (yeah... I know; I've still got my 97 Accord, so I've stuck with that so far). Here are the test drives I've done in my car search during that time: 07 Accord, 07 Camry, 07 Sonata, 07 TSX, 09 Audi A4, 09 TSX AT, 09 TSX MT, 09 IS250, 09 Jetta TDI, 09 BMW 128i MT, 09 BMW 135i AT, 09 Civic SI SDN. Yeah, I've done a lot of drives :P.

I've never tried the Infiniti G... it doesn't appeal to me too much. The cars that have my interest at this point are a used 1G TSX, possibly a 2G TSX, IS250, and 128i. The IS250 is a really slick car with lots of gorgeous details. However, I'm a MT shopper, and I've heard the IS250 manual doesn't stack up to the TSX MT.

I LOVED the BMW 128i with a stick. It drove wonderfully. I couldn't believe how well BMWs actually handle. My primary reasons for being hesitant to buy a 128 is that it's costly, upkeep is expensive beyond 4 years, it's kind of small, and I still question BMW reliability. I don't want to end up with a disaster that's always in the shop. Still, it was one of the funnest drives I've ever taken.

Breako

Yeah, but one question is how many people among the 1000s who have bought the '09 are having "that problem"? I've seen nothing so far to indicate that the reports on this site are representative of the population of '09 TSXs out there.

ttk5

MSN auto Review: TSX best car for under 30K
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/lista...nnl_6008.4.2.7

CNBC chooses TSX as best valued luxury car
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30687415

katmai

I don't think anyone knows the extent of the problem including Honda, however I would imagine if our cars are all built to the same specs, its pretty widespread. I think some problems are more random like a rattle and creak. Some people have them, some do not...but just looking at the sheer #s on this site (and others) and the acknowledgment of many parties, including the Australian govt, I think there is a problem. Just like bad tech speakers, our cars are all supposed to be built to similar standards, so if one has a problem, its very possible many others do as well.

I've had two loaner cars and two friends that have a TSX. Only one loaner doesn't have the noise, and it only had 1000mi on it. I started hearing mine around 1500 mi. I know this isn't exactly scientific, but its enough to make ME wary of buying a 31k anything, especially a car I have to depend on daily.

HeavyDuty

KATMAI, are you having issues with this noise on your vehicle? (6MT)

HeavyDuty

Wait, I'm confused. In your sig you show a 09 TSX 6MT, then you type about not buying one.

LuvMyTSX

Looks like he has one and started hearing the noise at 1500 miles. It's in his last post.

katmai

Yes I have one, a tech 6MT. I bought it on 11/22/08. It has about 4k miles on it now. It started making the pinging sound at about 1500 miles. Same conditions as I've read here from most...about 2000-2500 rpm, under a slight load. For instance, say I'm cruising about 35mph in 5th and just giving it enough gas to maintain speed...as soon as I press the gas just enough to go a bit faster, it starts pinging. I don't hear it at higher rpms because either the engine is louder and drowning out the noise, or its not making it. I've had 4 friends verify the sound. One is a Honda fanatic and said he'd be pissed if his car was making that noise. Its faint, but loud enough to notice everytime the engine makes it.

About not buying one..that was just a response to the op. When I test drove the car, it had 1 mile on it, and two of us test drove it. We know for sure it didn't make the sound then, and I know during the first 1500 it didn't either. I've always used 93 octane in the car. I still like the car, but if I had to do it again and knew of the problems I was going to have, I wouldn't have bought it. Honda/Acura service hasn't been very encouraging to me either. The dealers I deal with still have to typical Honda attitude...they're the best, they don't break yadda yadda. I don't know how many times I have to explain to them when various things are BROKEN. lol

I've had my glass moonroof panel replaced due to a defect. I also found out it was not mounted in the car properly due to either bad assembly, bad supplier manufacturing, or an out of spec body. I happen to live around a lot of Honda suppliers, and although this car is made in Japan, I actually dropped off my car to the american subsidiary of the moonroof supplier to have them take a look (They make most of Honda's sunroofs for north america). Low and behold some of the Japanese were there and were EXTREMELY interested in taking a look and inspecting my car. They brought out their tools and poked and prodded, and concluded in their Japanese accented bad Engrish words..."this glass is shit". The seal is defective, and the panel is mounted too far forward in the body - the rear is not sealing very well. I wasn't there but my friends who worked there told me about it. They said my car was causing a lot of commotion between the Japanese and american engineering. Apparently the US engineers were thinking they designed it, but then the Japanese stepped in and said "no, we designed that shit." I was also told later that the Japanese called Japan HQ to inquire about the "shit" panel. The response was its a bad design and will probably be changed on the mid model refresh. For those that care, I was told the moonroof assembly is the same one as in the US accord, but with a different glass panel.

On a side note, my moonroof panel is mounted farther back this time so the seal is better, but I wanted to move it up to make it more flush with the roof, and maybe move it just a bit more back. The front seal looks like its still getting squashed. Well, low and behold the adjustment screws are already at their max in the directions I want to go. A person involved with quality says something is not engineered or manufactured correctly to be maxed out and still be sitting low and forward in the roof.

Once again I like the car...its a nice car (my moonroof is ok), but if I had to do it again......... :-D

ressling

let me put it this way...

I absolutely LOVE my car, but I am VERY GLAD that I leased it. If things don't turn the corner w/ the whole engine knocking/pinging issue, it is extremely likely that I will not buy it (which is a shame because it has the potential to be such a good long term car).

the engine knock/pinging issue I would argue, happens to almost 7 or 8 out of every 10 TSX 2G owners...

in other words, it's enough of an issue to warrant a recall. the fact that Acura has handled this so poorly thusfar is not a good sign. only time will tell!

Breako

Uh, how did you come up with that frequency of the pinging happening?

ed_423

i think that the TSX is good. but other choices, IMO, would be IS250. its smaller than the TSX, and everything else is pretty good too, just the back seats are kidna small n cramped. but other than that its a great car.

Breako

The only ones who may be able to make any believable statements about % of 09 TSX affected are the Honda/Acura people and so far they're not talking. It's tempting to take the posts here as representative of the population of owners' experiences but it's probably not wise to do so.

CGP CL9

... although i love the tsx. i dont like the second gen too much. either go with a rwd car, or s2k or 3g tl-s

katmai

I bought the TSX to replace the Altima I was driving, but because the dealer wasn't going to give me what I wanted for it, I decided to keep it and buy the TSX anyway. Lately I've been thinking I should really start the process of getting rid of a car, but since I've been having all of these problems with the TSX (bad speakers, moonroof, pinging, bad service, unresponsive but friendly corporate), I'm thinking of getting rid of the newer TSX and keeping the Altima, especially with the pinging issue. I feel like I'm taking a gamble by keep it until Honda acknowledges the pinging and comes up with a fix, or maybe I should just get rid of it while its still relatively unknown. My Altima has been to the dealer one time in 2 years for an airbag recall. The TSX has been there NINE times in 6 months including one stint where it was there for 5 days.

TSXding

Wow 9 times... If that is the case, you should look into your legal options and try for a repurchase so you don't take a hit selling a 6-month car at a loss. Plus, I am not sure if a buyer could hold you liable if you sold the car in a private sale with a known issue, and your service records would also document those issues.

Breako

Yeah, something tells me I'm never going to get more than speculation from this guy.

TSXding

Breako, what are you trying to get? No one has the answers to what is causing the issue or what the effected population is? If we did, we would be working at Honda right now.

Breako

I'm just trying to clarify that, at this point, what Ressling is saying about the frequency of the problem is only speculation and shouldn't be taken as fact. For all we know, the number of affected owners may be as high as he says or it may be 1 in 10,000. We don't know and I highly doubt he does either.

LuvMyTSX

Well that just solidifies my desire to wait until the MMC to buy. Hopefully these issues are addressed by then.

JD23

Your car sounds like a lemon. Nine times in six months? I have a five year old car that has been to the dealership once to have a part replaced.

09TSXTech

I am incline to agree with you there. My 6MT CBP has 28K km on it now, only visited the dealer twice for A1 and B1 service.

No pinging (use 94 octane petrol), did notice vibrating hood and rear brake pads wearing out faster than front.

katmai

The reason I've been to the dealer so many times is not because the car broke 9 times...its the stupid way Acura makes me get things fixed. I have to make one visit so that someone can verify the problem, then they order parts and I make another appointment to actually have the work done. For the moonroof alone it took 5 separate visits - first two were the verify/order parts/get it fixed process. That fix didn't work (they wanted to TRY something before they replaced the glass panel, even though I had already explained to them the car was seen by the moonroof manufacturer who told me that glass panel replacement is the ONLY fix). The next two visits were the verify fix didn't work/order a new panel then replace the panel visits (btw they ordered THREE panels...first two that came in were defective as well), then a 5th visit to get some interior parts replaced that they scratched while fixing the moonroof (It would have been a 6th visit had I taken the car home when I inspected their work - instead I said I'm not taking it home til its COMPLETELY fixed).

The remaining visits were for the speakers. I've replaced 5 so far. I asked them if they could just replace the remaining speakers since obviously they're going bad, but they said they can't warranty anything unless its already broken, so I have to wait until they break...one by one.

Other than the nuisance Acura has been in getting their defects fixed, I don't really have any legal issues to hold over Honda. They ARE fixing the problems..they're just not proactive about it at all. They're very reactive and more or less just poor service. They still think their s*** doesn't stink. I talked to the service manager the last time and said to make sure my car is PERFECT before they call me to pick it up. I told him I don't want to waste my time coming out then finding out something else is wrong with it. I asked him directly to look at the car himself before I'm called. So they call, I go, and its got all kinds of smudges and scuffs inside. Thats also when I had them replace some interior parts for scratches.

I think a lot of my problems are just because I notice them. I don't think a lot of people would notice the things I have or care. I'm sure there are tons of people who don't notice the pinging, or don't care and it doesn't get reported. The two loaners I've had both had some minor issues going on with them. One of them was pretty new at 1000 miles. Neither pinged.

I still like the car. Things are eventually getting fixed. As long as I have no more major replacements I'll be happy. I'm reasonable. Nothing is always perfect, but attitude goes a long way, and my experience with Honda/Acura has been far less than stellar.

ressling

You should read more closely. I said "I would argue", which is an opinionated statement, not a fact.

Also you're not factoring in the # of people that likely haven't voiced their frustration of pinging on this forum or others that may have the issue. As contributors to this forum, we are engaged consumers, but that's not to say that everyone else that buys a 2G TSX is.

The pinging/knocking is obviously a major issue for the 2G TSX that still remains recognized yet unresolved 1 year later. More importantly, the company isn't handling it well, which I would argue is the bigger concern.

HeavyDuty

It'd be interesting to see our representative demographic here -v- general public at large. Also a model breakdown comparison between the two groups would be useful also.

i.e.) I bet we're 1.2% of the owners overall, yet a much larger ratio of 6MT owners per capita.

Breako

Then I would suggest that you restate the above as an opinion, rather than in the form of a fact as I would argue it now appears to be.

JonDeutsch

There are no service solutions for the pinging? What do dealers say when the pinging is brought up? Sorry, that's not covered?

katmai

Its acknowledged but not solution, however it isn't going to damage your engine.

TMQ

I would suggest a BMW 128i with 6MT, sport package, leather, navigation. MSRP 35K, and you can certainly get a deal these days based on invoice+.

CL6

Get a CPO BMW 3 series. Handles better.

09TSXTech

I think he's looking for a 4 door sedan and not a 2 door coupe, so the Bimmer 1 series is not applicable.

risc

Just for the hell of it, I test drove a 328i 6MT with Sport Package yesterday. I gotta say, the clutch was something I just couldn't get used to. There's A LOT of clutch travel and the accelerator pedal needs to be slammed down to even get any kind of acceleration. Maybe it's because it was my first time driving a European manual, but I just couldn't get used to the way it drove. I was actually nervous driving the thing. The handling and suspension was nice and brakes were really good though.

JonDeutsch

Thanks for remembering the requirements.

As the convo evolves, I'm looking for that killer combination of handling, reliability, technology, and value. Yes, I know I know -- Acura is always at the nexus of these attributes. This is why I've owned 3 Acuras to-date!

What I'm looking to do is to change things up a bit... try something else. But every time I look elsewhere, nothing seems to be really viable. I was hoping I was missing something?

That 328i is a nice car. I like it. But equipped with Nav and the whistles I'd like, it's over $40k. Same with the Audi A4. The G37 is in the realm, but it seems very big and unwieldy. I am already bummed over the girth of the 09/10 TSX! I like my current TSX's dimensions and toss-ability...

Thanks again,
Jon

TMQ

Hmm... you original post didn't say anything about 4 dr.

Anyway, you should test drive the G37, not just looking at it. But if you really look for a feature rich new car and a low price entry, I can't think of anything other than the TSX.

Personally, I would look for a used 2004/2005 BMW 3 series sedan with the exclusive ZHP package and 6MT. And just buy a portable GPS unit.