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all-season VS dedicated winter tires review

Old 12-03-2007, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Tire technology advances. Simply amazing.
Yes indeed. That's pretty much why I recommend to go with the latest technology possible. In your case, I do believe the Pilot Alpin PA3 is the newest tire of them all!

Honestly, I'd have been interested in a performance snow tire but for the fact that last year, even the Michelin X-Ice had trouble at one point in this steep, windy mountain road I need to go on to get to my friend's house, so I just want the best snow traction period for my car. Hence the WS60s.

I'd love to see some photographs of the PA3 if you wouldn't mind taking the time to post them.
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:17 AM
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Here you go :



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Old 12-05-2007, 09:16 AM
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Sweet! Those circumferential grooves are so wide, aquaplaning must be hard to do! Honestly, even with the sipes it looks like one of Michelin's high-performance rib-based summer tires. No wonder it handles well.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:05 AM
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Well after driven the new 3D in snow(7+ inches), slush and ice i have to say i like it even more than the M3. The jurry is still out as to if it has the same highspeed stability and traction of the M3 but the tire is still new and i havent pushed it.

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Old 12-05-2007, 09:26 PM
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Even though the WS60 is not a performance snow tire, its directional tread design is as aggressive as any. The squared-off shoulder (compared to rounded shoulder of the Sport 3D and PA3s above), however, belies its intended application. High-speed cornering stability? It isn't happening with the WS60s.

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Old 12-06-2007, 02:44 AM
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TLAwesome, you are right about the tire shoulders. Upon hard cornering, the car is virtually riding on the shoulders of the tires, and round shoulder tires will perform better. Is it your tire in the photo ? Because it looks brand new, with all those rubber spikes still sticking out all over the tread face.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:55 AM
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Well i took a small trip yesterday and the 3ds were every bit as good on teh HWY and the M3s were. There was no wondering or squishy feeling. ITs been a while since i drove the M3s new but i would have to say that on they hwy they are even quieter. There is no hum or highpitch on wet roads either. Handling i would say is as good as a all season tire in the dry.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
TLAwesome, you are right about the tire shoulders. Upon hard cornering, the car is virtually riding on the shoulders of the tires, and round shoulder tires will perform better. Is it your tire in the photo ? Because it looks brand new, with all those rubber spikes still sticking out all over the tread face.
Yep, it's my tire. I probably only have around 200 miles on them. Had them mounted on last Friday. The spikes are still there today.
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:07 AM
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It's a treat reading posts - informative and interesting as always...
on to boring news:

I just ordered a set of All-Season Michelin Primacy MXV4-V's yesterday. It kind of sucks that the shop made me pre-buy them. Bah. Once I receive the tires next week, I will be curious as to know where to look for the manufacturing date on the side wall when I'm in the shop.
Because if two tire dates are ok and the other two tires were made 18 months ago...I'll be upset. i'd figure the two older ones may have had a chance to be exposed to unfavourable conditions...

I hope the dates among the 4 tires are ok ^_^ IF not...meh...Anyway after reading through this thread about Winter Tires, i lightly read about bagstuffing tires. i want to bag stuff my up coming primacy's in an air-tight arrangement and buy a set of...


Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's


i live in GTA,Ontario and somewhat treacherous ice & snow conditions may be arriving. Sealing Tires in bags...could that be possible? are there ways to bag tires air tight to preserve it's 'freshness'? i don't wanna attempt this manually
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:51 AM
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Update, I have about 1500 miles on the #d's and i have to say they are every bit as good as the M3's and better. Very quiet on the road, very compliant, not squirmy at speeds above 80. Great wet and dry traction. Snow traction has been limited to our 2 snow falls, but both have been exceptional traction in snow (4-7") and slush.
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:15 PM
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^^ Another good example why we should always go for the latest and greatest, rather than sticking with the ancient best.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Update, I have about 1500 miles on the #d's and i have to say they are every bit as good as the M3's and better. Very quiet on the road, very compliant, not squirmy at speeds above 80. Great wet and dry traction. Snow traction has been limited to our 2 snow falls, but both have been exceptional traction in snow (4-7") and slush.
Well, this will be the last winter (4th) on my M3's, and with your good reports of the 3D's it will be hard for me to buy anything else next winter. I'll probably read up on the Alpin 3AP's, but I've been so happy with the Dunlops M3's that the 3D's seem like a sure thing.
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
^^ Another good example why we should always go for the latest and greatest, rather than sticking with the ancient best.
(when your current equipment is ready to be replaced at least)
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:05 PM
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I'm using Michelin Pilot Sport (max performance) for the summer and still have approx. enough tread to last two more summers. However, having such a good experience using the newest snow tire, it's hard to hold back the wait and I've decided to replace these summer tires in the spring as well. I've set my eyes on the Potenza RE-01R (extreme performance) which is again a brand new tire in a brand new performance category. It should deliver unparallel dry traction ever for summer tires.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
II've set my eyes on the Potenza RE-01R (extreme performance) which is again a brand new tire in a brand new performance category. It should deliver unparallel dry traction ever for summer tires.
Actually, the RE-01s are not all that new. They are arguably the best dry-performance tire (TireRack preferred the Yokohama ADVAN AD07), however, why sacrifice wet handling and treadlife?

Check out the newer Pirelli PZero's. Nearly as good dry traction but much better wet traction, and they should last double the miles. Here are the test results side-by-side:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=98
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=71

The PZero's actually had better dry & wet braking. Dry lap times were nearly identical but the Pirelli was nearly a full second faster in the wet.

Bah, I just realized that the tires were not of identical sizes/diameter, so you can't get an accurate comparison that way. Sorry. I still say go with the PZero over the RE01-R. The RE01-R just won't last.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:32 AM
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TLAwesome, you're right. The RE-01R is not brand new. It's only been out in the market for less than 12 months. So is the "extreme preformance" tire category created for this type of tires. This category brings dry performance to a new level.

The RE-01R is in a class of its own, which is "extreme performance". The PZero is in the lower performance "max performance" category which also includes tires like RE050A, Pilot PS2, F1 GS-D3. According to Gary from Tirerack, the jump from "max perf" to "extreme perf" is like a jump from "ultra high perf" to "max perf", which is quite significant.

I didn't have good experience with the old design PZero's because the old design PZero had little traction when the tire was cold. Only after the tire had fully warmed up then it would stick like glue on the roads. So one just couldn't drive fast for the first 10-20 mins of leaving home, unlike all other brands of max perf tires. Hopefully Pirelli is able to fix this for this new design PZero tires.

Even though discontinued for many years, my favourite tire was the BridgeStone RE71R, which was basically a RE71 but made with R-type racing compound. It had unbelievable grips in the dry, second only to those grooveless track-&-competition tires. But of course, the soft compound wore out fast. But what the heck, it simply gave me a reason to try out more different new tires.

I have been on "max perf" tires for quite some time, and I think it's time to move up to ultimate dry performance. Wet performance ranks low and tread wear even lower in my priority list. Who in the right mind would race their cars in the wet ? I definitely is not one of them, and so I'm more than willing to give up some wet performance in exchange for additional dry grips. Besides, the "extreme perf" tires are not like the good old Yoko A008 and grooveless track tires which are absolutely useless in the wet.

I have also thought about the Yoko ADVAN AD07, but it's special storage requirement and price have put me off.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:37 AM
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if you dont mind tires that dont last I mean really though, unless you plan on using the car at the track, there is very little that you can safely do with them on the street that the max or high cant do and have much longer tread wear.

As for the wet traction, its not about racing someone int the wet, its about having the ability to safely control the car when caught out in the rain.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
if you dont mind tires that dont last I mean really though, unless you plan on using the car at the track, there is very little that you can safely do with them on the street that the max or high cant do and have much longer tread wear.

As for the wet traction, its not about racing someone int the wet, its about having the ability to safely control the car when caught out in the rain.
Part of the reason is that I had used the R-compound RE71R tires on my previous car on the streets (and especially on the twisties to Whistler Mountain during the summers) and I missed the ultimate dry performance very much. "Extreme perf" is one category I must try to satisfy my curiosity and to verify how accurate others' comments are. It's like before you tried the Dunlop 3D's, you kept telling me how good the M3's were. I guess the 3D's is now your favourite snow tire.

The RE-01R is not a grooveless tire. Even though not as capable in the wet as the "max perf" tires, it shouldn't be so bad as to be unsafe driving in the wet.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
\The RE-01R is not a grooveless tire. Even though not as capable in the wet as the "max perf" tires, it shouldn't be so bad as to be unsafe driving in the wet.
Not until it gets to about 4/32" of treadwear, which will be rather quick with that compound:

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=5

Still, if ultimate dry performance is what you crave (treadlife be damned) I can't fault you for your decision. And as an added bonus, the RE01-Rs behave very well on the road in terms of ride quality & noise.

Heck, even I decided to sacrifice wet performance for better dry grip when getting the g-Force Sports, so I understand where you're coming from.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Part of the reason is that I had used the R-compound RE71R tires on my previous car on the streets (and especially on the twisties to Whistler Mountain during the summers) and I missed the ultimate dry performance very much. "Extreme perf" is one category I must try to satisfy my curiosity and to verify how accurate others' comments are. It's like before you tried the Dunlop 3D's, you kept telling me how good the M3's were. I guess the 3D's is now your favourite snow tire.

The RE-01R is not a grooveless tire. Even though not as capable in the wet as the "max perf" tires, it shouldn't be so bad as to be unsafe driving in the wet.
to be honest, the only reason i went with the 3d is because they didnt have them in my size any more(the M3)
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TLAwesome
Not until it gets to about 4/32" of treadwear, which will be rather quick with that compound:
You have a very good point. I'll keep a constant eye on the tread depth if I buy them after this winter season. The Pilot Sport that I'm currently using for the summer lasts about three years. So I expect the RE-01R to last maybe 12-18 months. But if I can only get 6 months' worth of usable wet tread depth out of it, then I'll move on to try out another new summer tire afterwards.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:07 PM
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Actually upon reading, those tires arent R compound. and should do well in the rain as they are full tread tires.
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:22 PM
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Don't worry, I'll try them out next spring and report back. There's no need to do any guesswork. Like I said before, someone's need to try out the new stuff. So everyone will know what the real deal is. That's what this forum is for.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:10 PM
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Damn, these are the predecessor to the RE01-Rs, and they come in my 215/55R16 size! I wonder how I can order them into the U.S.:

http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/.../Adrenalin.asp
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TLAwesome
Damn, these are the predecessor to the RE01-Rs, and they come in my 215/55R16 size! I wonder how I can order them into the U.S.:
It is probably not a good idea to import tire models that aren't available in North America. Some 15 years ago, long before the BridgeStone S-01 were available in the NA market, a local car tuning shop imported directly from Japan a set of the S-01 for me . Needless to say the bill ended up too expensive to be worth doing it again.

In less than six months' time, a giant nail rendered one tire unrepairable. Ordering a replacement from Japan would take 1-2 months, and also would cost an arm and a leg. My options were either to replace all 4 tires with something that's available in NA, or to replace only the bad one for the interrim period with something that was different than the other three. I ended up buying 4 new tires that were readily available locally.

I'll never buy tires that have to be imported ever again, because if $hit happens, it'll be nothing but headaches.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:24 AM
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winter tires this is why.....

all season are not for snow or ice, thats why they don't pass any tests for it. They are just marketed as an alternative for winter tires. this is why you should buy dedicated winter tires. These are supposedly Nokian Hakka 2's one of the highest rated winter tires you can buy driving in bad conditions....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GcAK...eature=related
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 300HpTL
all season are not for snow or ice, thats why they don't pass any tests for it. They are just marketed as an alternative for winter tires. this is why you should buy dedicated winter tires. These are supposedly Nokian Hakka 2's one of the highest rated winter tires you can buy driving in bad conditions....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GcAK...eature=related
if i see that STUPID video posted 1 more time im going to ban the person that posts it. Its useless
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:22 PM
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Well I am in need of new tires on my TL-S. Since I am living in the midwest I was thinking of replacing the tires on the OEM wheels with snow tires and then in the summer buy some new wheels and tires then and swap them when seasons change. The Dunlop M3 and 3D seem to be very popular and this is the tire I want to go with. What tire size should I stick with? I was looking at the 3D 205/50VR17
and the 3D 225/50HR17. But was is the difference and which one should I go with? I am not sure what the V & R stand for. Currently on the vehicle is 215/50/ZR17. I can't seem to find that size with the M3 & 3D. Suggestions?
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mnjeepmale
Well I am in need of new tires on my TL-S. Since I am living in the midwest I was thinking of replacing the tires on the OEM wheels with snow tires and then in the summer buy some new wheels and tires then and swap them when seasons change. The Dunlop M3 and 3D seem to be very popular and this is the tire I want to go with. What tire size should I stick with? I was looking at the 3D 205/50VR17
and the 3D 225/50HR17. But was is the difference and which one should I go with? I am not sure what the V & R stand for. Currently on the vehicle is 215/50/ZR17. I can't seem to find that size with the M3 & 3D. Suggestions?
I don't think you can go wrong with the Dunlops. Based on Fsttyms report on the 3D's, I am looking forward to trying them out next winter. Where I'm at (just south of LaCrosse) I am sure getting my use out of the last season of my M3's this winter. The snow just hasn't let up this year. Kind of bummed I traded off the sleds when all my kids were in hockey although I have to admit I got more use out of the bike I traded them for. It was funny the other day we got dumped on and multiple people were stuck in the parking lot after work and I just pulled right out, no problem. That's not mentioning trying to get going on the road. Yes, you can get by with good all seasons, but I prefer to not just get by.

I have often thought about ordering new wheels with summer tires on them and keeping the winters on the OEM wheels - just haven't pulled the trigger yet. My M3's are the size that Tirerack recommended when I ordered - close to OEM but not exact. I don't remember and am too lazy to look it up or go outside
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:08 PM
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Personally, I would go with 205/50/17 over 225/50/17. Theoretically, the thinner tires allows for a greater force per square inch on the contact patch ... (ie greater traction). There is a setback ... reduced handling when the roads are dry (ie smaller contact patch). Now ... if you experience quite a bit of snow, I would recommend losing a little handling when it's dry out and having a little more peace of mind when it's terrible out.

I have 205/50/17 Nokian WR (store didn't have any 215/50/17 in stock) and I've been happy with the performance. We don't get nearly as much snow as Wisconsin gets, but enough for people to drive like idiots and stick to just all-seasons year round.

Oh ... H vs V is the speed rating for the tire. Our cars come equipped with "V" speed rated tires since it can reach 155mph (H-speed is not rated for such a high speed). Technically, a shop is not supposed to install H-speed rated tires on our cars for legal reasons but it should be fine for winter use. H-speed tires are typically a harder rubber compound and should last you a little longer than V-speed ... not sure if that's a side bonus or not.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:16 PM
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i have been readin up a lot on the Nexen N5000 and they seem like an ok All-Season tire...has anyone experienced these or heard anything about them?
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:39 AM
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Nexen? Seem like a 'value' oriented company. A lot of people in Canada run Nexen tires ... they seem happy for the performance/price ratio. But you want to run them all-year long in WI? I don't know enough about the N5000 series to say anything meaningful but I would probably recommend a more recognized brand. (Just a gut feeling.) Checking the feedback from Tirerack is where I'd go for all-season tire advice.

Which is the reason for my posting today ... my wife's TSX has the same Michelin MXM4 tires as the 2nd gen TL. We got 7" this morning (I had to wake up at 7 this morning to dig her out of the driveway ... and I work at 3-8 tonight ) Not only does she stop the car at the bottom of the driveway, I had to rock her out of the driveway AND the street since she doesn't understand the concept of momentum. She is even cheaper than I am and said she'll be "OK" running all-season tires even in winter. (Tires have 10k miles on them and still look 'new')

Word to the wise -- get good tires for you and your significant other so you can sleep better at night (and even in the morning!)
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by derrick

Word to the wise -- get good tires for you and your significant other so you can sleep better at night (and even in the morning!)

Hell i just about threw on some Blizzaks on my GFs 4wd Expedition
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:17 PM
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My car came w/ BF Goodrich G-Force Super Sport A/S 225/45/ZR17 Goody's site says these are supposed to be very good all season tires ($123 ea. at tire rack.)
According to the website http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/overv...-a-s/3906.html these tires should allow me to climb up trees to avoid wolves and such.
I have never used Goody's before, and I like to run hard into the turns. So far these are holding on pretty well on dry surfaces, and zero complaints during the rain (i'm in Portland - so wet handling is waaay important.) I'll write again if we get any slush / snow over the weekend.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:20 PM
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I'd like to update my review of the WS60. They were very good for my first season, but now, starting the second season, I'm not as pleased as last year. First, the special winter compound which absorbs water is almost all but gone... and the tires are slippery in the wet. They are also noisy, with annoying tire rumble at all speeds. In other words, I no longer recommend the Blizzak WS60s. Try the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 or Pilot Alpin PA3 instead.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:11 AM
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Yes the X-Ice is a great tire also. They didnt have teh M3 in the size my sister needed for her car, but they did in the X-ice. She absoutly loved them too.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:43 PM
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Hey, I gotta get two new tires for my 2003 tl type s. What are some good reasonable priced one's that anyone has tried out?
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:20 PM
  #198  
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If buying only two tires, buy the same brand and model as the other two that will remain on the car.
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:20 PM
  #199  
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^ the thing is I'm planning on keeping it for only another year, are there any cheaper one's besides the stock one's or is the best bet to go with the same tire's
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:29 PM
  #200  
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Need some help guys after reading through this post, I'm debating to get snow tires. The only thing holding me back is that the tread life doesn't last as long and that I live in Seattle. For the most part we see more rain than snow. So I'm not sure in the long run if I should just have all-season tires.
So..
1. Help me decide what's a good snow tire and that lasts.
2. Should I even be buying snow tires?

Thanks!
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