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I think it has been well established, that proper cooling is essential for transmission life expectancy. My 2003 TLS, currently has 233K plus miles on it. It does have a Honda rebuilt (RMK) code transmission, with no Honda auxiliary, (external) transmission oil cooler. My question, and concerns are,at this point in time, while the cooling system, nor the transmission, exhibit any signs of a problem, do you think it would be prudent, to replace the "original" radiator, in an effort to INSURE, or improve the transmission oil cooler efficiency, strictly as a preventative measure?
Good point Homestead12. In retrospect, my post here is MISLEADING! The radiators on our cars DO NOT incorporate an internal trans cooler. At the time of the post, i assumed they did, and if so, it might be prudent to replace the radiator, in the interest of preventative maintenance, on our high mileage 15 year old cars. Many transmission re-builders insist on radiator replacement on older cars, so equipped, as a condition of validating their warranty. Thank you for your input.
>15 year old cars
Mine could buy her own smokes if she wanted haha
Any idea on where our transmission cooler is then, frankjnjr?
Other members, please correct me if I'm wrong, but It does not appear we have one. I went to Delray Acura OEM parts, and typed (transmission cooler) in the search engine. Twelve pages of parts listings come up, but none show any indication of a transmission cooler, or transmission oil cooler. I was incorrectly under the impression, that most cars with automatic transmissions, have a transmission oil cooler incorporated into the bottom section of the radiator! Oh well.
Other members, please correct me if I'm wrong, but It does not appear we have one. I went to Delray Acura OEM parts, and typed (transmission cooler) in the search engine. Twelve pages of parts listings come up, but none show any indication of a transmission cooler, or transmission oil cooler. I was incorrectly under the impression, that most cars with automatic transmissions, have a transmission oil cooler incorporated into the bottom section of the radiator! Oh well.
I would be very surprised if your car didn't have one, my 2001 Accord V6 (very similar to a 2G TL) has cooling lines which run from the transmission to the radiator.
Honda/acura calls it an ATF warmer but it's also a cooler. It's the round thing on the very top of the transmission with coolant lines going to/from the radiator. Coolant flows through while transmission fluid is circulated around the coolant tubing.
Thanks for the pic Iggy. My 03 TLS DOES NOT have the transmission fluid (pancake) heater pictured above. It is my understanding that this heater was a dealer installed part, and resulted from a Honda Product Recall Campaign, applicable to a specific vin. range. My car has an (RMK) designated Honda Rebuilt Transmission, NO BLUE BOLT HEADS, which may have excluded it from the dealer installed warmer. I have searched for information regarding the RMK designated transmission, but have found little related information on it!
Thanks for the pic Iggy. My 03 TLS DOES NOT have the transmission fluid (pancake) heater pictured above. It is my understanding that this heater was a dealer installed part, and resulted from a Honda Product Recall Campaign, applicable to a specific vin. range. My car has an (RMK) designated Honda Rebuilt Transmission, NO BLUE BOLT HEADS, which may have excluded it from the dealer installed warmer. I have searched for information regarding the RMK designated transmission, but have found little related information on it!
Interesting. Any chance you could snap a pic looking straight down and forward of the transmission fluid fill plug?
I suspect the OP's trans is not a Factory rebuild trans hence the non-blue trans bolts and different PN. Perhaps that's a sublet repair to an independent trans shop that a dealership uses to lower the cost of trans repairs.
I suspect the OP's trans is not a Factory rebuild trans hence the non-blue trans bolts and different PN. Perhaps that's a sublet repair to an independent trans shop that a dealership uses to lower the cost of trans repairs.
If that's the case, how is the OP's transmission fluid being cooled I wonder? Like you said, only the 4 speeders have direct lines to/from the radiator from the transmission.
Yes changing the radiator would help with trans cooling efficiency.
However, only the 4 speed trans has the trans cooler in the radiator. The rest use the one on top of the trans but don't know why OP doesn't have one.
IIRC the recall was to add an oil jet kit for the third gear not a trans cooler.
Good to know 01acls. Per Iggys post earlier today, "If that's the case, how is the OP's transmission fluid being cooled I wonder? Like you said,"only the 4 speeders have direct lines to/from the radiator from the transmission" It would appear that there is NO supplemental cooling for our transmissions(WHY IS THAT HONDA?) . Just to satisfy my curiosity, on what the inside condition of a 270k OEM original equipment radiator looked like, i removed one from a friends 01 CLS, after he scrapped the car. Herein is what it looks like:
I'm no cooling system expert, but after 17 years, and 270K miles, this radiator"s bottom internals look pretty clean to me.
The trans is cooled by the aluminum transmission case. At least that's what the engineers thought when they work out the numbers of BTUs being generated. LOL.
The work around to the heat problem is quite simple. Just change 100% of the ATF when needed then the trans will do well. If not expect to replace or repair, it's simple as that. As soon as the ATF over heats the ATF can only lubricate and protect the trans for another 100 miles. If the ATF is not changed within a 100 miles after being over heated then trans will create a perfect storm scenario and implode in a timely manner.
Correction, the #1 hockey puck in the parts diagram above is not a cooler. It's an ATF Warmer.
5 speeds are air cooled, meaning the trans case itself. Aluminum is an excellent heat exchanger. Apparently not good enough though in warmer climates.
For the record Acura calls the #1 hockey puck in the parts diagram an ATF Warmer so not exactly a cooler too.
While at the local pick and pull the other day, I looked at 11 TL, TLS, CL and CLS models. Of the 11, six had the auxiliary heaters, five did not. It did not appear that there was any pattern to which year or model was so equipped?
Good to know 01acls. Per Iggys post earlier today, "If that's the case, how is the OP's transmission fluid being cooled I wonder? Like you said,"only the 4 speeders have direct lines to/from the radiator from the transmission" It would appear that there is NO supplemental cooling for our transmissions(WHY IS THAT HONDA?) . Just to satisfy my curiosity, on what the inside condition of a 270k OEM original equipment radiator looked like, i removed one from a friends 01 CLS, after he scrapped the car. Herein is what it looks like:
I'm no cooling system expert, but after 17 years, and 270K miles, this radiator"s bottom internals look pretty clean to me.
The problem is not the plastic tanks that get clogged it's the cross tubes that feed the coolant from one side to the other side. Which will cause low coolant flow rate and over heat the engine.
Of course, the tank is irrelevant, as far as blockage is concerned. I was just impressed with the apparent cleanliness of the tubes at the bottom of such an old well used radiator. .
Correction, the #1 hockey puck in the parts diagram above is not a cooler. It's an ATF Warmer.
It's both. It is a heat exchanger between the coolant and the ATF. If the ATF is colder than the coolant, then it is heated up. If it's hotter it's cooled (just like every other piece of the engine that the coolant touches).
It's both. It is a heat exchanger between the coolant and the ATF. If the ATF is colder than the coolant, then it is heated up. If it's hotter it's cooled (just like every other piece of the engine that the coolant touches).
Exactly, like I said in post #8 above, but not as eloquently. So if some of these transmissions have no ATF warmer(heat exchanger) and no other external cooling then I guess it's air cooled like 01acls says. Learn something new every day. Would be interesting to know why some have it while others do not.
Exactly, like I said in post #8 above, but not as eloquently. So if some of these transmissions have no ATF warmer(heat exchanger) and no other external cooling then I guess it's air cooled like 01acls says. Learn something new every day. Would be interesting to know why some have it while others do not.
Exactly, like I said in post #8 above, but not as eloquently. So if some of these transmissions have no ATF warmer(heat exchanger) and no other external cooling then I guess it's air cooled like 01acls says. Learn something new every day. Would be interesting to know why some have it while others do not.
The 99 has a cooler in the radiator and the 00-03 have the heat exchanger mounted on top of the tranny. If any transmission doesn't have either one that's news to me.
The 99 has a cooler in the radiator and the 00-03 have the heat exchanger mounted on top of the tranny. If any transmission doesn't have either one that's news to me.
Hey SuperGreg, on my next visit to the local pick and pull, I'll do a brief survey of which 2G models are equipped with the heat exchanges, and which are not. Like i said in an earlier post, of the eleven 2G models i looked at, 6 had the aux. heaters, and five did not??? While I did not pay attention to specific year and models I looked at, I will do so on my next visit. Maybe a pattern will be revealed.
Visit to a pick-n-pull this afternoon: 2000 TL = 2 Both equipped with warmer. 2001 TL = 3 One with two without. + 1 2001 CL with warmer + 1 2001 CLS with warmer. 2002 TL = 1 Without warmer 2003 CL = 1 Without warmer + 1 2003 CLS with warmer. I know, right! This makes no sense to me either. Somewhere within the two functioning brain cells I have left, I seem to recall questioning this issue shortly after purchasing my 03 TLS. The explanation I got was that Honda retro-fitted specific cars with the warmer for some reason. No one really seems to know much about it. As soon as I have the opportunity, I'll call Acura and see if anyone there can shed some light on the subject. If the warmer is beneficial to the longevity of the transmission, than I'll install one.
So, finally called Acura client services regarding the transmission warmer issue. Acura could not shed any light on why some 2G cars have the warmer, and others do not! I called Delray Acura and spoke to Robert in parts. Robert is very knowledgeable in all things 2G . According to Robert, my 2003 TLS WAS equipped with a transmission warmer, when it was built. I explained that the transmission in my car, at some point, had been replaced with a non blue bolt trans., which has P7W A87 RMK printed on the trans. bar code label. Although Robert could shed no light on the P7W A87 RMK designation, he surmised that, perhaps the trans. warmer equipped cars, were those which were shipped to potential cold climate exposure vehicles, but he did not know for sure. I'm curious to know if any forum members, from southern or western WARM states, have these trans. warmers on their cars.
OK, well I can hardly see anything with those tiny pics, but I see that's your fill bolt. So just to confirm, when you're looking for the heat exchanger, you're looking over to the left, under the wiring harness? Just want to make sure you're not looking at the oil jet kits installed in the fill bolt. Those will absolutely differ from car to car.
Hey SuperGreg, sorry about the small pics. Just to confirm, my car does not have the oil jet mod., nor the pancake heater, illustrated in Iggy's 02/02/2018 post. I am very familiar with both items, and my car has neither. Thank you for your interest in this matter.
frankjnjr, sorry finally had a minute to really look at your pic. I admit I was a bit stumped when I first looked at it, until I realized it was upside down. Your pancake ATF warmer is clearly visible. I marked it here, and added a higher res pic from my own car showing the warmer as well:
Thank you for the keen observation SuperGreg. Seems that one of the two functioning brain cells i have left, has mis-fired. I had confused the heater for the oil jet kit. Can't seem to increase the size of my pics, but the one I took this a.m., clearly shows that the heater indeed does exist on my car. Puts my mind at ease knowing it's there, even though it can't contribute much to cooling. Thanks again, really appreciate your input.
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11-02-2017, 08:27 AM
