Spongy brakes, tried bleeding!!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: michigan
Spongy brakes, tried bleeding!!
Well i had to change all my brake pads , because all four were on there last leg, so after replacing all of the brake pads, i noticed that i was able to push the brake pedal all the way down to the floor, so i assumed that i must have gotten some air in the brake lines, so i bled all four wheels and that did not do anything!
My car stops ok, but it seems like i have to push the pedal half way if not more to stop the car where as before i had to push it maybe 1/4 iof the way down, but if i keep pushing it , i can push the pedal down to the floor.
The wierd thing is when the car is turned off the brake pedal will build pressure and will not allow me to push it to the floor, but once i start the car it seems like the pressure goes away and i can push the pedal all the way down to the floor.
What can this problem be?
My car stops ok, but it seems like i have to push the pedal half way if not more to stop the car where as before i had to push it maybe 1/4 iof the way down, but if i keep pushing it , i can push the pedal down to the floor.
The wierd thing is when the car is turned off the brake pedal will build pressure and will not allow me to push it to the floor, but once i start the car it seems like the pressure goes away and i can push the pedal all the way down to the floor.
What can this problem be?
Initial D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
From: Southern Cal
Originally Posted by fred3113
yes, i bled my brakes soo much, that i did end up replacing all the brake fluid.
How hard is it to replace the master cylinder, is it a diy, or leave to the pros?
How hard is it to replace the master cylinder, is it a diy, or leave to the pros?
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Senior Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 81,385
Likes: 3,068
From: Appleton WI
you may have added alot of fluid durring the bleeding but you may not have got it all. Take off the lines from the caliper and push the piston in all the way to expell anythng in there. also make sure you are bleeding in the correct sequence. SS lines will help with the feel. and pads will also effect the pedal feel
On the way!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,715
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Isn't the sequence basically the longest brake line to the shortest?
1. Passenger rear
2. Driver rear
3. Passenger front
4. Driver front
Also - don't you have to address the ABS pump? I believe it has a sump under a removable cover on top where the fluid needs to be changed. (on the 4 channel Type S system at least)
1. Passenger rear
2. Driver rear
3. Passenger front
4. Driver front
Also - don't you have to address the ABS pump? I believe it has a sump under a removable cover on top where the fluid needs to be changed. (on the 4 channel Type S system at least)
Senior Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 81,385
Likes: 3,068
From: Appleton WI
Originally Posted by Bxscig
I dont think so, I believe it was in an X. I had read it some where in the autostore and on this forum I believe. maybe it was in the manual as well.
Some one with the TL manual needs to chime in and let us know if acura wants something different
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,486
Likes: 9
From: NYC
The TL has a diagonal brake system
Taken from http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef062ac
"Air in the system or a defective master cylinder. Saturn, like almost all front wheel drive cars, uses a diagonal split brake hydraulic system. The left front and right rear brake are on one circuit, right front and left rear are on another. Bleed sequence is RR, LF, LR, RF. Should have a good spurt of fluid when each bleeder is opened with the brake pedal depressed. If not, the master cylinder is probably pooched. Often, a previously working master cylinder can become damaged when bleeding brakes by overstroking the pistons into an area of the bore which may have corrosion buildup, tearing the cup seals on the pistons."
Taken from http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef062ac
"Air in the system or a defective master cylinder. Saturn, like almost all front wheel drive cars, uses a diagonal split brake hydraulic system. The left front and right rear brake are on one circuit, right front and left rear are on another. Bleed sequence is RR, LF, LR, RF. Should have a good spurt of fluid when each bleeder is opened with the brake pedal depressed. If not, the master cylinder is probably pooched. Often, a previously working master cylinder can become damaged when bleeding brakes by overstroking the pistons into an area of the bore which may have corrosion buildup, tearing the cup seals on the pistons."
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,486
Likes: 9
From: NYC
I dunno anymore, this is from just what I gathered and did. It worked fine and it isn't mushy anymore. Last resort call the dealer and ask.
Taken from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=bleed+brakes
Taken from http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122
Last resort call the dealer and ask.
Originally Posted by fla-tls
That's about a saturn? 
Originally Posted by Bxscig
"Air in the system or a defective master cylinder. Saturn, like almost all front wheel drive cars, uses a diagonal split brake hydraulic system. The left front and right rear brake are on one circuit, right front and left rear are on another. Bleed sequence is RR, LF, LR, RF. Should have a good spurt of fluid when each bleeder is opened with the brake pedal depressed. If not, the master cylinder is probably pooched. Often, a previously working master cylinder can become damaged when bleeding brakes by overstroking the pistons into an area of the bore which may have corrosion buildup, tearing the cup seals on the pistons."
Originally Posted by BloodFart
The proper bleeding sequence for our cars is the following -- driver side front, passenger front, passenger side rear, then driver side rear; starting from one corner and going around in a circle, basically. To completely flush the system and replace with new, you will need about 3/4 of a quart. One can of ATE Super Blue DOT 5.1 from www.cobaltfriction.com will be plenty enough, with some left over to bleed it once or twice in the future. It's like 15 bucks shipped, which is 3-4 times more expensive than DOT 3 Valvoline brake fluid you can buy at any auto parts store, but it's worth it.
Doing nearest or most distant doesn't matter. What matters is if the brake system is a diagonal or front-rear system.
Quick definition: diagonal means that one circuit in the master cylinder feeds the front driver's side and the rear passenger side. The other circuit the front passenger's and rear driver's. Both circuits are of equal volume. Front-Rear means that one circuit supplies the front calipers, while the other the rear calipers. The Primary circuit (front caliper circuit) is of greater volume.
All you need to do is make sure you do the circuits together. For instance, on most passenger cars it's a diagonal system. So you want to do the driver's front and passenger's rear together, which you do first is not all that important. But he does agree that the tradition is to do the rear first. Or best to get a friend and do both at the same time. And take your time (he told me to make sure I added this).
Quick definition: diagonal means that one circuit in the master cylinder feeds the front driver's side and the rear passenger side. The other circuit the front passenger's and rear driver's. Both circuits are of equal volume. Front-Rear means that one circuit supplies the front calipers, while the other the rear calipers. The Primary circuit (front caliper circuit) is of greater volume.
All you need to do is make sure you do the circuits together. For instance, on most passenger cars it's a diagonal system. So you want to do the driver's front and passenger's rear together, which you do first is not all that important. But he does agree that the tradition is to do the rear first. Or best to get a friend and do both at the same time. And take your time (he told me to make sure I added this).
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,133
Likes: 1
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
According to the service manual the following sequence should be followed:
1st - Left Front
2nd - Right Front
3rd - Right Rear
4th - Left Rear
Repeat the bleeding procedure for each wheel in the sequence listed until bubbles no longer appear.
You may want to consider investing in a pressure bleeder as it makes the job much easier. I use a similar unit on all my BMW's. Bleeding is a breeze..no more "pump pump pump hold....."
1st - Left Front
2nd - Right Front
3rd - Right Rear
4th - Left Rear
Repeat the bleeding procedure for each wheel in the sequence listed until bubbles no longer appear.
You may want to consider investing in a pressure bleeder as it makes the job much easier. I use a similar unit on all my BMW's. Bleeding is a breeze..no more "pump pump pump hold....."
Senior Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 81,385
Likes: 3,068
From: Appleton WI
Originally Posted by RickRoush03
where did you get that, how much?
My99acuraTL
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: boston, ma
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Same Problem
All I did was replace the pads and now I barely can stop the car. Pedal goes all the way to the floor. Is is possible that I did some damage when I pushed the piston back in the caliper. I usec a C clamp like I always have.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 428
Likes: 3
From: Arizona
What are you using to bleed the brakes? Do you have the cap on or off the master when you are bleeding?
I find the best way is the old fashioned system using a cup with fluid and running a line from the bleeder into it and pump a few times until the air bubbles stop. The master cyl cap must be on doing it this way
Those handheld pumps and other suction devices dont usually work well but if you use one the master cylinder cap must be off or all you are doing is creating a vaccuum inside the system
If there is air getting into the system from a bad hose or master cylinder fluid will get out as well. Check under the car the next morning and see if you can spot any leaks.
I find the best way is the old fashioned system using a cup with fluid and running a line from the bleeder into it and pump a few times until the air bubbles stop. The master cyl cap must be on doing it this way
Those handheld pumps and other suction devices dont usually work well but if you use one the master cylinder cap must be off or all you are doing is creating a vaccuum inside the system
If there is air getting into the system from a bad hose or master cylinder fluid will get out as well. Check under the car the next morning and see if you can spot any leaks.
[QUOTE=flydog]
Those handheld pumps and other suction devices dont usually work well but if you use one the master cylinder cap must be off or all you are doing is creating a vaccuum inside the system
QUOTE]
I have the Mity-Vac and it worked just fine. Did this on multiple cars and it improved the pedal feel every time.
Those handheld pumps and other suction devices dont usually work well but if you use one the master cylinder cap must be off or all you are doing is creating a vaccuum inside the system
QUOTE]
I have the Mity-Vac and it worked just fine. Did this on multiple cars and it improved the pedal feel every time.
WNC Real Estate Sales99TL
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 732
Likes: 15
From: Asheville NC
My old Accord did the same thing=peddle would go to the floor. Had to change the master cylinder. It was very easy. Actually had 2 master cylinders fail in 300,000 miles. The brake lines/rubber ones could also need replacing. I would do the mater cylinder first then see how the brakes work.
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