Arkady

Hey guys!

I've been daily driving my '99 TL since February, I got the car used with around 240k miles on it and a rebuilt original transmission. I know, that mileage is really high - I got it for $2500 cash though so I'm not complaining too much.

Anyhow, she's been running pretty decently for the most part but I took it into the stealership today to get a key cloned and have them do a general inspection. Suddenly, my to-do list of repairs has gotten a lot longer and the estimated cost has increased as well.

I'm going to get around to doing all these fixes eventually, but I was wondering what you folks would suggest I tackle first? I'd love to do them all at once, but alas I'll have to take my time.
(Not asking for the DIY tutorials, I found pretty much all the instructions I need here on the forum aside from the dead image links. Just so ya'll don't start yelling at me to search)

So far on my list I've got:

- Replace engine mount (driver's side, back of the engine)
- Power steering fluid exchange (dealership observed that the fluid is "excessively discolored", but I haven't experienced any issues with the steering. I don't know if this is something I'd notice while driving though.)
- Repair oil leaks (rear main seal is leaking, the dealership suggests to replace the oil pump gasket as well. I haven't researched enough into this yet to know if the terminology I'm using is right)
- Transmission fluid exchange (dealership and oil change place say that the fluid is "excessively discolored". I've seen instructions here on how to do a 3x3 drain&fill, is that what I'll be doing here?)
- Front tires (starting to get a tad worn but I've still got a safe amount of tread left)
- Fix AC (this one is VERY low priority for me as I just use the windows, and get dressed more in the winter. Figured I'd throw it into this list anyhow - autodiagnostic gave me an error code "I")

I'd guess that I should tackle the transmission fluid first, and then move on to the leaking oil (I carry the oil in my car so I can just top it off when I need to), and then the power steering and finally the engine mount? If the power steering isn't that serious though I'd like to throw the engine mount replacement ahead of it because the steering wheel shake is driving me insane.

What do ya'll suggest? Also, any chance anyone has price estimates on what I'll be encountering? I plan to do all these repairs on my own as well, so no need to worry about labor cost - just the materials.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

grandlaker

I just did power steering fluid "refresh" on my '01. It now has 298K miles and still going strong. I bought several bottles of Prestone power steering fluid for Honda/Acura at Walmart for $2.50/bottle. Used turkey baster to suck out all fluid from reservoir, added new then started car and rotated steering lock to lock numerous times. Repeat numerous times until fluid is mostly all clear. Much better then the mess of disconnecting all the lines. Use rag to catch all drips.

Chojun

Just make sure you put something like cardboard under the wheels to reduce strain on the P/S system while you're getting the old fluid and bubbles out.

Generally I would replace fluids first and then do your oil leak. If it's the rear main that needs replaced then you might get to the rear mount while you're at it. Actually, I would replace all of the mounts while you're in there.

Arkady

I was thinking of jacking up the front end while I get the old fluid and bubbles out, so I could turn the wheels freely.
I haven't looked in my manual yet for the rear main process, didn't realize I'd be in the area of the mount. I'll see what my wallet thinks of getting all the mounts at the same time haha.
Speaking of mounts, I was just going to grab a cheap aftermarket one. The whole vacuum line to the motor mount thing that our cars have isn't all that important, right? The instructions I've seen that still have live image links seem to skip over that most of the time.

Iggy

couple of things come to mind.




Jacking up the front to turn the wheels will make life easier. These PS pumps can be finicky with the fluid they use. Best bet is to use Honda PS fluid.

Aftermarket motor mounts work just fine except you will likely notice increased engine vibration through the steering wheel at idle and harsher jerking during shifts with aggressive driving. Be sure to plug the vacuum line if you get mounts without vacuum plumbing.

Rear oil seal requires transmission removal. This is NOT a small job.

A/C system will require diagnostics that require equipment most home mechanics don't have. Unless you know precisely what is wrong, your best bet is to take it into a shop.

SuperGreg

I would change the tranny fluid ASAP. The single most important thing you can do to keep these transmissions running is changing the fluid often.

Iggy

^^^
I Agree

Arkady

Thanks for the replies guys.
In that case I'll tackle the transmission fluid next week before start doing anything else. I'll call the local Honda dealership and ask about their ATF fluids - I want specifically the Honda DW1 stuff, right? I've heard some horror stories on here about using the wrong fluid so I want to be REALLY sure I've got the right stuff haha.

Iggy

yup. DW1

Kris9884

$2500? Ouch.. Seems like you're on the right track though, should be driving like new after those motor mounts and trans flush!

Arkady

Alright my fellows, I've taken care of the power steering and did half the transmission fluid replacement - giving it a few weeks of use before doing the remaining two drain/fills to give it some time to get dirty again. Also I didn't get enough transmission fluid.
Whoever did the change before I got the car didn't put the crush washer back on and i had to use a dremel to flatten the sides of the bolt so I could grab it in vice grips. Don't want to have to be so rough on the car again next time so I think I'll try to grab a new ATF drain plug bolt at the junkyard tomorrow. I'll try to nab the crush washer too.

thoiboi

Dealer also has drain bolts and crush washers. I wouldn't reuse an old one

Chojun

You should be able to attach a 3/8" breaker or ratchet drive directly into the bolt head.

Arkady

An off-brand crush washer shouldn't cause any issues right? I may be able to find one cheaper than at the dealership but I want to be sure it'll work right first haha.
EDIT: they're like 20 cents a piece at my local Honda dealership so it's not even worth the effort to find them anywhere else haha

As far as using the 3/8", I did do that. The bolt must've been impacted on or something cuz it absolutely would not budge - even with a bunch of PB and all the tips and tricks I could find for getting a stuck bolt out, all I managed to do was start stripping the bolt a bit. I stopped before I made the entire thing unusable and switched to the vice grips, which eventually did the trick. I'm guessing the lack of a washer played into this.

frankjnjr

The first time I serviced my transmission, I thought i was going to either break the case, the ratchet, or pull the threads out with the bolt. The crush washer was in place, so that was not an issue. The fill bolt was extremely tight. After service, I don't torque the bolt to 33 ft. lbs.which i believe is the correct spec., I just "snug" it up. Even though i install it to a snug fit, at the next fluid change, be it a week, or a year, the filler bolt requires a significant amount of force to loosen. Some how, I think this bolt self tightens and seems to require 40-60 ft. lbs. to loosen again?

SuperGreg

Yeah the fill bolt gets really tight. I've used a bit breaker bar on it with some force, busted my knuckles too. I don't tighten it down very tight at all. I think the issue is the large diameter threads.

Arkady

Man, after changing the steering fluid and the transmission juice the car already drives so much better! Can't wait to see how she feels after I get that rear mount replaced!

SuperGreg

Car will be great, you will be pissed off.

Arkady

Getting the rear mount out that much of a PITA?
Think I should just save up and get them all replaced in one go to minimize my suffering? the issue seems to only be with one of them anyhow but I haven't exactly looked too deeply,.. although with an 18 year old car I can't expect too many working parts hahah.

SuperGreg

The rear mount is a HUGE PITA. Do not go cheap!!! I put a crappy eBay mount in and it vibrates bad at idle. I am kicking myself. Should have put an OEM mount in. I'd like to replace it but don't really want to do it again. Maybe someday. Replacing the front is not bad.

Skeet33

Came across this old thread and wondering, Arkady, if you ever got to the engine mount(s) and the oil leak on the rear main seal? The rear main seal sounds pretty tough to DIY.

I concur that the rear mount is a big time PITA. Nothing about it is difficult technically; just exceedingly awkward to access and get tools where they need to go. Torque values will all be by "feel" since you can barely get any wrench in there, much less a torque wrench! Kind of surprising that it's only the rear mount they're calling for. The front is that one that was shredded for me. I did all three engine and both tranny mounts at the same time. With the right socket tools (long extensions, u-joint, etc), none were too tough except the rear. I'll throw front mounts at it forever before I touch that rear mount again. Although, I do feel much closer to my engine now, since I spent so much time with my arms wrapped around it...

Arkady

Ha! As embarrassing as it is to admit, Skeet33, I have not tackled either of those tasks since I posted this!
I did do the passenger-side engine mount and the A/C however. Kept getting distracted with other things - my VTEC solenoid gasket broke, as did the solenoid cable, so I had to deal with those first. Then the oil pan gasket started leaking and I had to take care of that - soon after that I stripped the oil pan drain bolt out by being an idiot, and had to tap a larger bolt in place. Then some interior cleanup went on the list, etc etc and now I still have bad engine mounts and a leaky rear main!
Did you find a decent DIY for the rear main? I recall reading one on here a while back but I'm not sure if I'd be able to find it again. My current plan for the rear main is to just let it keep leaking - it's slow enough where I don't really have to care about topping the oil off before I end up needing to do an oil change anyhow.
How long did it take you to do the rear mount? I'll be replacing mine soon enough as I'm getting real sick of the engine thumping around in there hahaha

Skeet33

Yikes! Sounds like you've had quite a list of repairs to keep you busy. I can understand putting off the engine mounts. And I'm with you on leaving that rear main alone as long as you can.

Here's the DIY I followed most when I did mine. It's about the only good one I was ever able to locate:
DIY - rear engine mount

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a difference in the rear mount between the '99 and '00-03 models, as can be seen on page 5-10 of the service manual. Since you have a '99, that may make your job easier or harder than mine (my TL is a '00). I found some of the steps about mounting bolts in the DIY steps hard to follow exactly, so maybe the OP has a '99. Also, there are some good tips in the rest of the thread discussion, so I'd read through it all.

I did all three engine mounts and both transmission mounts at the same time, and I worked on them intermittently over a few days so it's hard to remember how much time dedicated to just the rear. I'd allow several hours - minimum. Once you start taking parts off there's no turning back. Don't think you're going to knock it out in an hour or two, the first time through it. It's a straight-forward job but it's time consuming figuring out how to position your body, wrenches, bolts, and the mount, etc in very confined quarters. And some of those bolts have LOTS of threads.

Have you checked that your front mount is in good shape though, before you take on the rear? I believe it's usually the first to fail. It's easy enough to check, and you can do it alone. Open the hood, lean down and watch the top of the engine through the gap. Put it in Drive, and with your foot holding the brake give it some gas to apply torque to the drive train. If you see the front of the engine lift much, your front mount is likely shot. There are a number of decent DIY's on the front mount if needed.

Be sure to post back with an update when you tackle this job!

Arkady

Oh yeah, there's always something exciting to work on with my TL-P : ) Spent my saturday morning cleaning out the infamous EGR Port, along with a general flush of the upper manifold. Also fixed the high idle issue I had after cleaning my IACV from another thread.
I'll take a look through that thread, thanks! Might be a decent project to get my even-newbier-than-me friend involved in. He's been a big fan of watching me learn to work on the car, so maybe he'd be down to help out.

My side engine mount was completely trashed when I went to replace it - hardly any of the rubber was left! Since the car is almost old enough to buy its own booze now, I'm willing to bet the rest of them aren't looking too hot either.
Which brand did you end up going with? I still haven't decided on going OEM or aftermarket for my replacement mounts.
I remember some ancient thread on here where some gentleman filled his dead mounts with polyfill of some kind, giving his car much stiffer mounts. I've been toying with that idea, but it sounds like it'd make the driving feel way different.

Skeet33

The more I learn on this forum, the more I realize that I've overlooked on my TL. I've never touched my EGR, upper manifold, or the spark plugs/coils. I'm at about 185,000 now, but still running & idling smooth and good mileage. Sooner or later I'm sure I'll have to get into some of that.

Having a friend for moral support is always nice, but somebody commented on one thread that the mounts are more of a solo job; I'd have to agree. Most of the job is squeezing into tight spots with no room for a helper.

I went with Beck/Arnley. Almost everything is way cheaper than OEM, but I figured they were a step above the cheapest and a reputable brand. They're definitely not as cushy as the OEM, but I wonder if the softness of the OEM mounts may be why they don't last long. I definitely didn't want to do this job again so I stayed away from OEM. There's no question I feel the engine more through the steering wheel than I did before. If I get tired of the feel I may consider replacing the front with OEM or a softer mount, but I'll never touch the rear if I don't have to.

Both my front and my side were totally trashed too, by the time I figured out they were bad. With the front and/or rear gone bad, the side takes more twisting force than it's supposed to, so I read that you should do it after the front or you'll fail it quickly. Have you concluded whether your front is still OK or not?

I read about the polyfill approach as well, but never seriously considered it. Stiffer mounts isn't what I'm going for. There's also a "high performance" brand that you'll see talk about, with a colored polymer fill. Stiffer mounts but supposed to last forever.

If you look at Beck/Arnley I should point out that there are two different mounts available for the front:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...379033&jsn=393
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...379033&jsn=394
I didn't even realize they were different until after the job, so I never figured out what the difference is. I got the second of the two. The first looks a little more like OEM, so maybe it's softer? Please let me know if you look into it and figure it out!

Arkady

Yeah, every time I do some repair or some cleaning and see how bad things were, I'm surprised at how well my baby drove despite it! Wonderful cars these are.
Ah, I didn't know that about the side mount failing quicker after the front/back ones are dead - that's good to know! Good thing I hardly spent any money on the side one - picked it up for about $5 at a junkyard haha.
It's been storming like no other here where I am, so I haven't had a chance to mess with the car at all lately. I've just been working on my interior LED conversion in the meanwhile - I can plug up the headunit at my desk to test it, so no need to step outside ;P

It looks like the first one doesn't have the vacuum line that OEM has. I don't fully understand how the vacuum line works with the front mount, but I do know that we have one on OEM haha. You said that you've got the vacuum line one, and it's still rougher?

Skeet33

The vacuum line's function is to either soften the front mount at idle or firm it up under normal power - I can't remember which - but the idea is minimum vibration at idle. If the mount you install doesn't have a vacuum port you MUST plug the vacuum line or you'll supposedly get an error code.

Both of the ones I linked above have vacuum ports. The one I ordered also came with a vacuum hose, which was a waste. I thought I'd order that one in case my vacuum hose turned out to be old and brittle. The hose they provided was bigger than the OEM hose, so it fit too loose. I tossed it and forced my old OEM hose over the new mount's slightly larger port.

Yes, mine is rougher at idle than it used to be. Not bad, but different. No way to know for sure, but I have a feeling the vacuum port on the one I ordered is just a dummy fitting, doing nothing at all inside the mount.

Arkady

Damn, that'd be rough to get had like that over a vacuum port haha