MarcDavidoff

Figured I would throw this on to see other's opinions. I have owned (and currently own 2 legends and an integra besides the TL) a few Hondas and Acuras thru the years and am familiar with most of their quirks. I know of this model TL and the trans issues. I bought this type-s about a year ago and it has been fine. The original owner I bought it from had the original trans replaced at around 60k in 2005 with the revised trans with internal oil cooler. The fluid when I bought the car was not burnt and the car shifted fine. The car had 147k when I bought it and I immediately did a 3x3 change with DW-1 fluid, then another 1x3 change a few thousand miles later. The car now has 154k and shifts perfectly and the fluid has remained nice and pink after the 7k I have driven it. The front and side mounts were toast when I bought it and I replaced them. The trans mounts look intact visually. I have new ones as well as the rear engine mount but have not attempted to change the rear yet. The car runs smoothly as it is and I am not sure the rear is a problem or not. I also took off and cleaned out the intake/egr ports. Somewhat clogged but not too bad. It does idle smoother now though.
Anyways, recently I notice a very slight shake/shimmy at very low rpm- at say 1200 to around 1700 under very light throttle. Like the amount to just keep a constant speed in a neighborhood. It is there mainly in 3rd and 4th gear and maybe 2nd and at low speeds equal to that low rpm. Say 20-30mph. I changed the 3rd and 4th pressure switches with no help. I am down to rear engine mount or inner cv axle. But both driveshafts have essentially no play when I move them around. I have also changed wheels with no change. If I give it more gas or let off it stops. I do also sometimes feel on the hwy cruising I feel at speeds around 60-70 or so it feels a slight shake. All of these slight shakes are felt thru the floor/seat.
So could it be a inner cv anyway or possibly the rear mount which I may attempt this weekend? I am hoping it is not torque converter shudder or judder like I have read a lot of the Odysseys and Pilots have. I have tapped the brake with my left foot while it is doing it and it does not go away. If I power brake it for a minute and stay at 1500rpm it does not shake. This would seem to eliminate the torque converter..? Sorry for the long post

gold2003tl (90)

See if the rear motor mount is compressed and sitting on the stop tabs.

MarcDavidoff

Thanks for the reply. I went under the car yesterday and the mount does not look compromised from what I can tell. I was going to attempt replacing it but bailed on it..the trans mounts are both in fine shape. I did have a pair of Oem used axles so went and replaced the drivers side one as the inner joint had a bit of up and down play. The car does seem to be smoother on the hwy now after a short run withit last night. I was able to get it to do its shake though at low speed. It really seems concentrated around 20-25mph and in 3 or 4th gear. Mainly with rpms very low at like 1200 and just giving it a slight bit of gas. Maybe it is just lugging in too high a gear. The car otherwise is driving great with smooth shifts etc

raeuvsunshine

I'm having the same issue.... rebuilt tranny, replaced all 5 motor mounts, New wheels and tires, front and rear struts, full fuel system clean out including dropping the tank and new fuel pump. I've put so much money into my car trying to figure it out and after 3 mechanics being stumped I'm desperate for a solution hopefully an inexpensive one....

Yikes

My 2000 TL is doing the same thing, except the shake can be violent at times. It does not shake for more than a moment and does not happen every time I drive the car. But when it does happen, it happens around 25 - 35 MPH.

The car has 201,500 miles with the transmission replaced at 90,000 miles. The transmission shifts smoothly and perfectly. The fluid, which is a tad dark, does not smell burnt or give cause for alarm or panic. Though I don't think it would hurt to do a 3x3 fluid change.

My first thought was the engine mounts. I've heard they are junk. I've not inspected them yet, but right now they seem like the number one suspect.

My second thought was the spark plugs. When the shaking happens, I've not paid attention to the tacometer, but such a shaking makes me think the car is losing power. I plan to put some new Iridium NGK plugs in and see what happens.

MarcDavidoff

Yikes- thanks for the reply on this. I have not driven the car too much the last couple of weeks but have not noticed the shimmy. I have not had the desire yet to attempt the rear motor mount

3.2TLc

Hey MarcDavidoff, could be simply in need of a tune up and some cleaning of critical parts ?
Also, if I'm not mistaken....the original mounts and drive shafts have counter balancing dampers to smooth things out at lower rpms. Check the vac-assist for the mounts, maybe a hose is bad or even the control solenoid for it ? Ya never know !!!!

MarcDavidoff

Yeah who knows. It actually has all new coils and plugs, and the whole upper intake I cleaned. The engine runs very well, I don't believe any of it is engine related. The driveshafts are Oem and I actually have another set of used Oem axles off the same car. I replaced the drivers side axle with no change. I have not done the other side simply because it seems tight and doubt it is the cause.
My front mount I changed and the vac hose is good. You are right though you never know the rear could be the issue.
Maybe I'll get the ambition to attempt the rear mount soon.

Yikes

I have an update:

When I was investigating under my hood I inspected the transmission fluid and it was almost black. It is important to note that the transmission wasn't failing or acting up any way. After doing a 3x3 fluid swap, the shaking has stopped.

Besides my time and the cost of 93 octane gasoline, (About $3.38 a gallon where I live atm) 9 quarts of Honda ATF-DW1 and the washer for the drain bolt cost me $80.08 at my local Honda dealer.

I'm not sure if I've helped you or not, but I wish you the best of luck, and please keep us updated.

3.2TLc

Hey Yikes, that sounds like a mixed bag to me. With your tranny fluid being almost black....can't be a good sign. Did ya do the 3x3 drain & fill all in one shot ?

If so, sometimes that can put a sleeping dog into shock ! But, best of luck and let us know.

MarcDavidoff

Yeah hopefully your black fluid is nothing brewing. Mine has never been black. When I bought the car from the orig owner it was just a little dark just needing a change. After doing some fluid changes it has remained pink.
I'll let you know if I have any more issues

Cyro22

I have seen idle and low speed shakes caused by the EGR valve not working properly.

MarcDavidoff

Forgot to mention I changed that too thinking the same that it could be the cause but nope

Yikes

I was very concerned when I saw how dark the fluid was. The first thing I did was give it a sniff. It didn't smell burnt.

I know over time, transmission fluid gets dirty and needs to be changed, and that it isn't fair to say that just because my fluid was dark that my transmission was in trouble.

The previous, original, owner told me that the transmission was replaced at the Acura dealer at 90,000 miles. I'm thinking the fluid that was in there was probably original from that replacement. I've heard once fluid gets that old, it gets more dense because of all the material it collects and can wear out seals, and new fluid, being less dense, can run past said seals and cause it to slip or have other problems that later result in failure. I got lots of opinions before I decided to change the fluid, including a technician at the Honda dealer, and a shop I trust.

I first did a 1x3 fluid change. After putting the new fluid in, I went inside and sat for about 15 minutes. Then I jumped into my car and started the engine. I let it idle for a moment just to ensure that the fluid would make its way through the valve body, ect. I then drove 20 miles, a mix between city driving and country roads, just to make sure I went through all 5 gears. I paid close attention to reverse, 2nd gear, and the transition from 3rd into 4th.

Two days later, I changed the rest, all with drive cycles in between.

300 miles later, I've checked the fluid thoroughly before each drive, and I've had no problems. (Thank god) The transmission wasn't having problems before, but it feels smoother now. I was scared to death that fresh fluid would ruin my transmission but it appears that I've rolled the dice, and won. (For now)

The fluid isn't perfectly pink and in all honesty I could probably make it pink by doing another 1x3, but because it is clean and fresh, I'm going to leave it for now, but keep a close eye on it. I'll probably do a 1x3 next oil change.

victus1

Don't forget to change the external tranny filter. You can see it right below the air intake. There's a diy here you can search for instructions.

3.2TLc

Hey Yikes, seems like ya took your time to study the 3x3 tranny fluid drain & fill and "play the dice" on changing it. Was there a lot of residual metallic fines on the drain plug when ya drained the old dark fluid out ? Now that your tranny is cleaner, replace it's filter as Victus1 suggested.

Also, getting back to your first initial thought.....the motor mounts are more than likely toasted. Check the "DIY" sticky and search for other threads concerning the replacement of mounts. Victus1 has a detailed DIY thread on the rear mount.

Are ya getting any CEL codes ? A tune-up and some intake cleaning may help the old gal. The T-belt's about due up along with valve adjustment.

MarcDavidoff

Just figured I would see if anyone had any updates? I have driven the car maybe 1500 miles since my original post and have not noticed too many instances but sometimes at the 25 mph range I still have a slight surge at a constant throttle. Other than that it drives fine and last check of mostly highway driving I averaged 29mpg. It did hit me that I believe at around the same time I had removed my intake resonator. I went and put it back on today so I'll see if that by chance has something to do with it. I actually believe the resonator should be left in place after reading more about the real reason they are put on (which is not for cutting out noise)

3.2TLc

Have ya tried checking the fuel pressure ?
Could be a restriction within the pump or fuel injectors maybe. Possibly an iffy sensor, relay or leaky o-ring on an injector, who knows. Have ya replaced the rear mount yet ?

MarcDavidoff

Have not attempted the rear mount yet as I know it is a difficult job. At this point, even though the car idles perfect I am thinking it could possibly be a small vacuum leak. I have sprayed throttle body cleaner all around the intake area even down at the motor mount vac hoses but no change in idle that would indicate a vac leak.

Cuddy Bang

My 2000 tl also just started doing this at low speeds and low acceleration, but only when the car is being driven for the first time in the day then after 10 minutes of driving it doesn't come back. It doesn't do the shake for the whole 10 minutes but im just saying it does it once or twice with in the first 10 minutes of the car being driving.

MarcDavidoff

Figured I would post an update although not really much of an update.. I have about 161k miles now since my original post. I had done one more 1x3 fluid change with DW-1 and the fluid has been staying nice and pink. Like Cuddy above, some days the car rides a bit harsh esp the first 10 miles as if my wheels need balancing. But I have rotated them and no change. Even have a set of other wheels and have pit them on with no change. Probably unrelated to the shake/judder/shudder whatever. Usually the judder is at low speeds/rpm and the whole car will vibrate until I let off the gas or accelerate. I think I will have to attempt the rear mount and see if that does anything..?
On the highway I get 30mpg+

3.2TLc

Yeah, if ya checked everything else out .....the rear vac-assisted mount could very well be the cause, if it's blown.
There are procedures for testing the mount and it's vaccum, but......just gonna have to bite the bullet and try replacing it to know for sure.

Nicks2001tl

Somebody on an earlier post recommended that the vacuum lines be removed from the front and rear mounts which will give you a slightly rougher idle but a more responsive ride and possibly less shake.

It`s easy to do and if you don`t think it works you can always plug vacuum hoses back on.

Before you do anything double check the mounts all of them including the two tranny mounts.

Did putting the intake resonator back in do anything?

MarcDavidoff

Putting the intake resonator back on did seem to get rid of the slight surge at slow speeds. But the shudder is the same. I think it all is likely the same symptoms that the Odysseys/Pilots/MDX have with the trans shudder. I'll be attempting the rear mount soon I guess

ErickUa5

Have you checked the half shaft ? its on the passenger side and connects to the inner cv axle it has a bearing that might be worn, did it have any play ?

You can also lift the car up on one side, Safety first jack stand and e-brake don't forget to turn off the TCS or the car will lurch forward. Now put the car in drive and let off the brake pedal slowly, this will simulate load on the drive train and you'll be able to feel the shake if its on the left or right side of the car. Again remember to turn off the TCS, when the light is on its off.

@Nicks2001tl He's not having a problem at idle so that method wont work.

MarcDavidoff

Thanks- I replaced both axles with known good ones but no change. The half shaft bearing was fine but I did not change that.

Nicks2001tl

@Nicks2001tl He's not having a problem at idle so that method wont work.[/QUOTE]

Cuddy Bang

Just wanted to give you guys an update on whats going on with my low rpm shake problem. I know for me it was one of 2 things for sure, my transmission started to slip so my shop told me its gonna need a rebuild. Thank god i had purchased the lifetime warranty from from them a few years ago so it got rebuilt for FREE! Also while they were rebuilding my transmission they called me and told me my rear motor mount is gone and recommended i replace it while the transmission is out so i don't have to pay any labor just pay for the part which i did. So long story short after getting my tranny rebuilt under lifetime warranty and getting rear mount changed the low rpm car shake is officially gone! I dont know if it was because of the transmission or the rear mount but one of those 2 things was causing it for sure, i would assume it was from the rear mount. Good luck guys.

ErickUa5

Lifetime warranty for the trans thats a blessing and they honored it Glad to hear all is good with your TL enjoy it.

MarcDavidoff

Good to hear you were able to get it fixed for free. Kinda doubting it was the rear mount but would have been nice to know if that was part of the issue

2003 Black Acura

MarcDavidoff - I have the same shutter on my 2003 TL - exact description - low rpms, 20 miles per hour, etc. It never does it when I hit the gas with any authority. My trans was rebuilt at 120k. Now it has 160k. It started shuttering just a few thousand miles ago. I brought it back to Trans shop. I previously let an oil change shop change the fluid with multi car fluid so he said rather than throw parts it at, lets try using Honda fluid. He changed the fluid plus changed the 3rd gear celanoid (I think that what it was). It eliminated the shutter - for about 2 weeks. He thought it was 3rd gear, I thought it was 2nd. Given the fact that work on the trans clearly stopped the issue, at least temporarily, makes me believe it is a trans issue. I need to bring it back - maybe get the 2nd gear thing changed this time. I will let you know - keep posting how you do.

MarcDavidoff

Thanks for the info Black Acura. My TL trans has been shifting great with no flares, slips, etc.. No delay going in reverse or any other typical failing trans issues. The only other thing i notice is a slight whine from the trans.
The DW fluid seems to have made shifts a bit more smooth than when it had the Z1 in it. I was thinking of going the route of the 3rd gen guys with using a mixture of Redline fluids but I am hesitant to try it just yet. I only really only notice the shudder in 3rd and 4th and I can induce it by going at a slow rpm in one of those gears. Somewhere around 1300rpm with just very light acceleration. I may be able to in 5th also but just can't feel it as pronounced as in 3rd or 4th. Besides the 3rd gen guys having a very similiar issue, if you google the Shuddering in general for Honda or Acura, there are many posts identical to what we have on the Honda Pilot, Acura MDX, and Odyssey forums.
I am thinking of trying a 2oz tube of the lubegard shudder fix and see what happens. I don't think it can hurt and it seems to have a lot of positive reviews. I don't like additives like this but it seems like it is low risk. I may pick some up at Napa tomorrow and give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes

David1221

I had this same exact shudder. It didn't do it if I laid on the gas pretty hard. Guess what it was? Yep, the tranny.

Nicks2001tl

I don`t like additives either but used the lubegard with a lot of success. I used it for it`s friction modifiers because of the heat issue with our trannys. And yes it has a lot of good reviews and my families mechanic who also hates additives gave it a thumbs up.

MarcDavidoff

Thanks Nick- makes me feel a little better about adding it in then

MarcDavidoff

Hope not but most of the posts on the other forums I mentioned led to a new trans in those models. I guess worst case and it eventually goes Ill maybe go the 06/07 accord trans route

MarcDavidoff

Ok so quick update. Added some Lubegard shudder fix today and drove about 35 miles. The additive says 'instant'. Well, the results to me so far don't show any real change. I guess Ill give it some more time in case the 'instant' is not so instant.

ErickUa5

Are you driving in D5 if so try D4 that works for me. It wont hurt anything I've been driving my TL like this for 2 years.

MarcDavidoff

Yeah, it's actually 4th that is most pronounced. If I am doing about 1300rpm in 4th (around 20-25mph) is when it is most likely to occur. It doesn't matter if in D4 or in SS mode in 4th.

MarcDavidoff

Update- after a few hundred more miles, I would conclude that the Lubegard has not really made any difference or very minor if any. Maybe I will go the Redline route next.