gangstaTL03

From what I've read on the forum, there is a lot of talk about ROTARA and RacingBrake Rotors.

If I purchase the ROTARA Rotors from Excelerate, will there be any caliper modifications needed?

Also, Would you recommend upgrading Front and Rear Brake setups simultaneously? or is upgrading just the Front Brakes sufficient?
In other words, will upgrading just the front brake setup be "enough?" or does upgrading the rear brake setup actually make a difference?

Thanks in Advance, Acura Advance

FirePR2002

I have about 5,000 miles on my rear StopTech rotors and I can still see some of the swirl marks from the factory on the outside face. People will tell you 70% of the braking is done by the fronts, but I think this number is closer to 80% (or slightly higher). Upgrade the fronts and get yourself a good set of pads and you will immediately see a difference. Unless you're having problems with the rear or need new pads or rotors, I wouldn't touch them.

No other mods needed on the calipers for just a simple rotor / pad swap.

bibledriver

Upgrading fronts is your sure shot, really. Like FPR ^ I have RacingBrake 2piece fronts. Great quality, and I gain what I want from them. And like him, I have Stoptech rears because the slotting matches my fronts, but I am not convinced that they are necessary. Until go with a BBK, just normal in the back should be fine IMO. Definitely upgrade the front, however.

Rotora, Stoptech, EBC, RacingBrake, are all good brands. The important thing for your own sanity is not to buy the cheapest set you can find (trust me). You will be wasting your money.

gangstaTL03

Thank you FirePR and BibleDriver for theinformation-

Now, RacingBrake's 2 Piece Rotors are preferred over Rotora Slotted Rotors?
Or are the differences slim?

and What is the going price on these Rotors? $175 a pair? Thanks Again

FirePR2002

I honestly can't remember how much I paid exactly because it was WELL worth it for me. The upgraded feel / stopping power is enhanced significantly and as 01tl4tl has said - my car makes change out of the dime when it stops. I can stop my car "way back there" compared to everyone else on the road (except a few) and it has helped me avoid multiple stupid fender-benders in traffic.

You'll find as many different opinions as there are brands mentioned by bibledriver and they're all good for the most part. The RacingBrake website describes their manufacturing process and presumable superior quality, but that could very well be marketing-speak. Do a search on the brands and you'll find more than you want to read about them. I chose the stoptech rears because the slots matched - not because I need the extra stopping power - the front combo has taken care of that for me.

Talk to excelerate or mr.heeltoe - they're both a great source of experience and intel.

And before anyone else says it before me - don't forget to seafoam. I beat Tom.

gangstaTL03

Haha, Seafoamed the TL maybe three months ago after putting in plenum spacers- Did an EGR cleaning too. Thanks tho

bibledriver

you will have to check the website. The difference between the 1piece and 2piece is the weight and different cooling vane pattern. 2piece is much lighter and therefore decreses rotational inertia (parasitic drag, like lightweight pullies help) and unsprung weight (yields better suspension response). price difference is noticeable. If you are a normal or even spirited driver, 1piece is fine, definitely. If you feel inclined for more performance, and have more money, so be it and have fun w/2piece. Heeltoeauto.com is where I purchased mine. Check on the price and choose or look at the Rotora if you wish. they also have std OEM size upgrades.

fsttyms1

From a performance standpoint 2 piece is better than 1, but also more expensive

gangstaTL03

Thanks- But Damnnnnnnnn are they expensive, about $600 for a pair of Front Rotors? Thas crazy-

So aight, now I kno that 2 piece is better than 1 piece... BUT, I can't afford the 2 piece, so when going with 1 piece-

do you guys prefer the more expensive racingbrake 1 piece slotted rotors over the slotted 1 piece ROTARA rotors?

and is drilled AND slotted ROTARA rotors preferred (from a performance standpoint) over just slotted?

Thanks again guys, cuz of y'all this forum has been very helpful in makin decisions as to what parts I should throw on my whip-

01tl4tl

RacingBrake 1 piece slotted rotors with et500 pads
get them from MrHeelToe, an azine sponsoring vendor- about the same price as rotora
Crossdrilled is great if you autocross race the car- otherwise too many issue with them.

600 for the 2 piece- you have to figure into the future when the rotor surface wears out- you unbolt the ring and replace it- for about half the cost of the whole unit
So later they give a payback and for now the give better braking

gangstaTL03

Thanks again to every1 that responded- I'm most likely gonna go with the racingbrake 1-piece slotted

Now.. I have about 115,000 miles on my car-
1. rotors never replaced, always cut- you could imagine how warped my rotors are by now and how much vibration i get on the steering wheel-
2. The emergency brake needs to be pushed in all the way to feel the rears grab
3. and occasionally, the brake light comes on the dash even when the brake fluid level is good- When you shake the master cylinder however, the light goes off- I'm guessing a bad fluid level sensor?
4. My Brake pedal also feels somewhat "spongy" and travels almost all the way in... I understand that air in the brake system can cause this, but I was wondering if it could also be from rotors being cut too many times (but within min. thickness)

Some people say that brakes should be bled only when brake lines or calipers are removed..

But I've also heard that brakes should be bled every brake job to ensure tightness in the brake pedal feel..

Can Air seep into the closed brake system over time?

01tl4tl

First-: Whoever said the brakes should not be bled is a total idiot- Acura says EVERY YEAR starting at year 3 of cars age- its absorbed moisture, not straight air, that is the prob.
Google- HYGROSCOPIC for why

You have a couple of issues:
When the rotors are machined below minimum allowable thickness- the caliper has to push its piston out farther to make the pads contact the rotor.
At 115k miles, You could have a master cylinder problem now- and that is allowing air to get in, and can trigger the warning light
OR sometimes the cap for the master is bad and the sensor fails as you suspected
OR the fluid has so much moisture in it that the pedal feels spongy- most common cause~

The PARKING brakes- which are NOT Emergency-brakes, are just a tiny set of drum brakes- located inside the center mounting hub of the rear rotors- thats why the rears take longer to replace/install- must play with the park brake adjustment a few times to get it right
You dont want super tight- they will drag the shoes and wear out fast- plus other issues.

Pull it all apart and check things out- check DIY on brakes and always SUSPECT contamination of fluid- so protecting the system from crud formed in calipers by releasing- opening the bleeder and pushing the pad/piston slowly in- then close bleeder- that allows stuff an escape path rather than backwashing rust particles into the abs controller

xs0ysaucex

hey o1tl4tl since I know your are a brake expert and all, I installed rotoras slotted up front and hawks hps today. Right when i pulled out the drive way I heard a noise close to a hissing but also a grinding noise coming from i guess the brakes. Is this normal? Even when im coasting at 5 mph hr I hear it. My dad actually said it might just be the pads and rotors in a sense "getting acquainted w/ one another". LMAO! Is this true? In addition, my dad told me to drive it for 20 miles or so if it doesnt go away then he would check to see what is up. Possibly a fitment issue, but I'm damn sure I got the correct parts and I checked it with the part # as well. Plzz give me some info. and will help. Thanks!!!

FirePR2002

Did you use the stock shim - the shiny flat piece between the pad and the caliper? If so, that could be the culprit.

xs0ysaucex

Yes we did, but I couldnt use new shims because the hawks HPS didnt come with them. If that is the case why is it so and does cause a major problem? The brakes still work great, but the noise is annoying just because im a perfectionist.. haha. Where can I get some new shims?

01tl4tl

Are you sure the hawks dont have a built in shim???
Its normally glued on to them and using the OE shim will cause a problem when used on top of them
I will go look at my spare set in the garage to verify- but as i recall- they come with one on,
and recently someone else tried this same thing with same result

Matt- can you confirm this too- the shim

bibledriver

My ET300 came with no shim on the backing plate, so I, like soyboy, used the shims off of my old OEM pads. I have no noise whatsoever. Did you grease the backing plate and all of the moving parts necessary? Cleaned the rotor well? Took the kitten out of the wheelwell before driving?

bibledriver

So this is NOT a function of braking? or it is only under brake pressure?

Bearcat94

[minor thread jack]

Which is preferred?

- Stoptech 1 Peice Slotted w/ET500 Pads

OR

- Rotora Slotted w/Rotora Ceramic Pads?


Not going 2-peice.


Desired Outcome:

- Improved Performance (not Max performance) over OE
- OE Level of Noise (i.e. none or *very* little)
- Dust not a concern (I can clean my wheels if/when I need to)



Second question: What about subbing ET300 Pads in the rear if I go with Stoptech?

[/minor thread jack]

01tl4tl

the RB pads dont have a backing plate shim attached or included, and their tech guy told me is wasnt required.
I greased the back and have had the calipers off a few times- no issues on not using shims.

I just checked my old OE pads and the shim was still on them- leading me to believe the HPS had its own- or I would have swapped them over!! iirc they are glued on and dont look exactly like the OE ones, may not fit the same but they are built correctly

In the old days- shims- and sometimes its was a few! on each pad were to take up space- had specs to use/measurements and everything. Now they are more for flat surface to cover casting flaws and easy to grease (use brake caliper grease)
The actual movement from brake pads off-- to brakes on is about 1mm
If you were to put shims on top of ones that are glued on- that would take up the free space and cause dragging, noise, funky braking, and pad wear

Its worth the 10 minutes to pull the caliper and remove the pads and make sure.
Hawk does not have smooth backing plate surface on its rear pads, I dont recall on the front but- if you can read the hawk name and part number- thats the part you want against the caliper- no extra shims on top of that

Once you have fixed the install- and that may be shims or overtorque on the mounting bolts for the caliper (see it all the time) or the pad slider area not greased or ...
I am assuming you did spray the rotors with brake cleaner before install

Your dad is correct in that these part do need to get to know each other- doinf it right is very important and on the side of the HPS box was directions. Rotora rotors have their own directions so its a compromise on what to do for method.

Once you find whats hanging up, you need to ~bed the brakes~
here is one good method- I helped write it and it works very well on a TL
http://heeltoeauto.com/httech/YaBB.pl?num=1184261899

01tl4tl

You will want to flush-bleed the brake fluid too- all cars starting at year 3 of its life (acura book) and then every year after that
With better brakes you should do it now even if not 3 years sinc car built.

The bleed order on a TL is abnormal because of the ABS-
tell dad that acurazine members say it is the factory method, and only way to do it.
The correct way is LF left front is driver front- from seated drivers point of view
LF then clockwise around the car== LF RF RR LR

01tl4tl

bear- why would you use stoptech rotors with RB pads?
RacingBrake had to design its own pad compounds to keep up with the rotors aggressive mettallurgy. The ET series is the result. Just like rotora makes its own pads now-

On my 01TL-In the front I run RB 1 piece rotors and currently on et300 pads- thinking about trying the 500s soon to check the differance. Had HPS before and they were decent but maker matched pads do make a differance-

On the rear- stoptech is a visual match on the side vanes to the RB, if thats important to you
I run kragen basic rotors with et300 pads in back

rotora makes an excellent product and the ceramics are less dust but not as much stopping power---I believe my opine on being able to stop 30 feet sooner is well known~

01tl4tl

Did you do the caliper upgrade yet- since this thread is about upgrading brakes!!
1995 Legend LS-Coupe 2 piston calipers, 72.99 each for the rebuilts I got, and there are 2 other brands- similar pricing
Makes a HUGE difference in the braking, and combined with SS-Stainless Steel Brake lines...now I need the fancy brake fluid that fsttyms1 uses

note: SS lines are actually a flexible teflon core wrapped in protective braided steel mesh, and a plastic covering-- to protect the mesh. The dont expand when you push the pedal hard or when system is hot.
Keeps good pedal all the time, well up till you have torched the brake pads --like one of those cool car chases covered on the news helicoptor-sparks flying- rotors glowing...

Bearcat94

Went to HeelToe's site and did a "build your own". Reason for looking at Stoptech:

1. Cost on fronts is a bit better (I am on a budget of ~$500/$550);
2. Wanted the slotted for looks as well as performance, so I picked the same maker so the front and back would match. No RB Slotted Rotor for the 2G TL-S rear.
3. ET Pads based on Marcus' recommendation.


Overall Rotora is a bit less expensive (~$75 before shipping) and, like Marcus, Josh is a quality guy to do business with.


Need to balance improved performance with cost and noise. I could go with the RB front and keep the cost where I need IF I go with the ET300 in the rear.

Timing is an issue as well. Need to strike while the iron is hot, so to speak, so I need parts by Thursday. Shipping CA --> NC in 3 shipping days - . Gotta make a decision and place an order tomorrow.

So, tell me what to buy.

(Not that I'll actually *listen* )

01tl4tl

actually bear.. RB ships from Northern New Jersey by ups ground- if you call them direct they may be able to push the order out the door monday- otherwise is a day after order goes from marcus to them- before it leaves the warehouse
I believe Josh ships direct from his store in that same general part of the country

The fronts are where to spend the money- 70 percent of the braking force is done in the fronts- Stoptech is an upgrade over stock- but I would really consider them to be more OE replacement, not a big step up
The rears- well my car does fine with the setup I listed- and you can probably guess what conditions my car goes thru--- between the wife drives around town, and I tighten the Teins a few clicks and head for Yosemite

bibledriver

Dude, your imagination is perplexing

01tl4tl

If I am poor- I must be crazy
If I am flush- I am just eccentric
You do the math and decide~

bibledriver

hmm, you ARE a writer . . .

Drop a rock into the well of my imagination. . .

|. . . . . . . . .|
|. . . . . . . . .|
. . . . ..
. . . . .
. . . . ..
. . . ..
. . . . ..
. .. . . ..
. . . .. .
. . . . .
.. . . .
. . . . .

. \ splash /

its pretty empty

Bearcat94

Brakes on order.


They'll go here:








Now about those 3A Tips ....

01tl4tl

wow- I had forgotten what a badged TL looks like ~
Get out the heat gun/hair dryer and the dental floss- the 3.2 comes right off and looks great on the frig
Next up- 18s?? and a drop?

Bearcat94

Probably delete the stock intake resonator.

Suspension next year.

I've got 2 TL-S's and a limited (rapidly dwindling) supply of $$$$. AcuraZine is going to put me in the poor house. :lol:

ftLauTL

I love the stock type s wheels


If I had the need for a winter setup, it'd be them in a second

01tl4tl

I kept my stock 16s just in case- along with the stock shocks and springs all assembled in case the teins need to come off or the 18s...

But if I am headed for that kind of deep snow- you can rent 4wd vehicles and have 0$ deductibles- guess what I will be driving!

xs0ysaucex

I just installed my new rotors and pads (all rotoras slotted and all HPS pads).. Is it normal for the caliper and the pads to not align correctly with the new rotors because of the rotors being slightly larger in diameter compared to OEM rotors? Is this the same way for everyone or did I install incorrectly? I know for a fact it doesnt align correctly cuz I can see about 1/3 to 1/2 an inch of water rust still there after a car wash when I drove the car. If this is normal than will it affect the setup in any negative way? Any info. will help people!! BTW If i changed the calipers to legend coupe LS calipers will it change this ?