Innovative Motor Mounts Update 8.25.08
09-13-2008, 01:32 PM
#41
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Revised Vibration Comparison Chart: 9.13.08
Scale 0 = Best / 10 = Worst
0 = No Vibrations felt (OEM Mounts)
1 = Barely detectable (Busted OEM Mounts)
2 = Very mild - don't notice unless feeling for it (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C off in neutral)
2+ = Very mild - a little more detectable, but not an issue (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on in neutral)
3 = Mild vibrations are felt - this level would be acceptable to me if the mounts produced the performance feel of the black street-strip bushings. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on and in drive)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 1st gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C on in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C off in neutral)
5+ = Moderately strong - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C on in drive)
6 = Strong - not acceptable not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C off in drive)
7 = Strong - not acceptable, not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C on in drive)
8 = Extreme - not acceptable vibrates worse and a massage chair. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in neutral)
9 = Extreme - not acceptable shakes like a NASCAR or Dragster. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in drive)
10 = Ridiculous - Houston, we're ready for liftoff. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings - A/C on in drive)
Note: I would say that folks with daily driver and are tired of having to replace OEM or don't want to go with OEM mounts and don't mind a little mild vibrations, the 2+ is the maximum level I would look at.
Ruf
Scale 0 = Best / 10 = Worst
0 = No Vibrations felt (OEM Mounts)
1 = Barely detectable (Busted OEM Mounts)
2 = Very mild - don't notice unless feeling for it (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C off in neutral)
2+ = Very mild - a little more detectable, but not an issue (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on in neutral)
3 = Mild vibrations are felt - this level would be acceptable to me if the mounts produced the performance feel of the black street-strip bushings. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on and in drive)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 1st gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C on in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C off in neutral)
5+ = Moderately strong - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C on in drive)
6 = Strong - not acceptable not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C off in drive)
7 = Strong - not acceptable, not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C on in drive)
8 = Extreme - not acceptable vibrates worse and a massage chair. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in neutral)
9 = Extreme - not acceptable shakes like a NASCAR or Dragster. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in drive)
10 = Ridiculous - Houston, we're ready for liftoff. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings - A/C on in drive)
Note: I would say that folks with daily driver and are tired of having to replace OEM or don't want to go with OEM mounts and don't mind a little mild vibrations, the 2+ is the maximum level I would look at.
Ruf
09-15-2008, 12:12 PM
#42
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Just a few comments about how the black street-strip mounts are doing.
I went to fill up on gas last night as they were projecting the price at the pump to jump .50 to .80+ cents because of fear that gas supplies would be hurt as a result of Hurricane Ike.
There wasn't much traffic and had a chance to jump on it a couple of times. In 1st gear from right about 30mph I punched it and it briefly broke the tires loose and when I hit second it produced a very hard quick chirp . . . with more torque steer than I've ever felt. Note, the humidity was very high with temps at 82 and a heat index of 89, so high humidity. Can't wait for cooler weather . . it's going to run like a beast.
What does this all mean? Basically that I'm getting a lot more power to the wheels, and quicker as well. That's what a nice set of performance motor mounts should do for you.
Ruf
I went to fill up on gas last night as they were projecting the price at the pump to jump .50 to .80+ cents because of fear that gas supplies would be hurt as a result of Hurricane Ike.
There wasn't much traffic and had a chance to jump on it a couple of times. In 1st gear from right about 30mph I punched it and it briefly broke the tires loose and when I hit second it produced a very hard quick chirp . . . with more torque steer than I've ever felt. Note, the humidity was very high with temps at 82 and a heat index of 89, so high humidity. Can't wait for cooler weather . . it's going to run like a beast.
What does this all mean? Basically that I'm getting a lot more power to the wheels, and quicker as well. That's what a nice set of performance motor mounts should do for you.
Ruf
I've tried the 30mph punch a few more times and each time it broke the tires loose . . . more of a quick chirp.
I also got one chance to do a quick hard launch to see how much the wheel hop issue was improved. Well, I experienced no wheel hop, and spinned the tires nicely. Note - I only had one chance to do this and won't finalize the findings until I get some runs in at the track . . . which unfortunately won't be until late February 09 due to a booked schedule there.
That said, power transfer felt very smooth, quick and controlled, so I've very pleased with that . . . so far.
Ruf
10-09-2008, 11:38 PM
#43
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Update:
Okay guys, sorry about the delays . . . work has been kicking my
and with the wifey and kids hogging the computer for things like school work, system time is a premium. 
Anyway, I talked with both Greg and Tim today to get a verdict on where things are going, so here's a summary.
Some comments on references to mounts and such. There are 3 basic components we’re dealing with here. 1) is the bracket, 2) is the motor mount in which the bushings are place and 3) the actually bushing itself.
First off with Greg to get the scoop on the formulation of the bushings. Note, IM has a separate source for the bushings, so as I understood it from Greg, IM did not request a formulation change in the first place, so they recognize the it's a problem and are doing what they can to make things acceptable. Keep that word in mind as we move forward, it'll define when some of you bail or stick with it.
1) As we pretty much already know, the first batch was a failure. The formulation was designed to actually allow some more engine movement, and thus less vibration. However, for whatever reason our engine mounting design does not like it. So back to the drawing board and IM had their supplier change the formulation to something harder/stronger. These are what I call the 2nd gen red bushings. And IM also changed up the motor mount as well.
2) Myself and some others get the 2nd gen bushings. Mine last about a week and they’re toast. However, the vibrations did get better, but not enough for those whose cars are daily drivers. I send the mount and red bushings back for analysis. This was a slow process and with IM people in and out of the office, Greg was not back until 10/08, and I get with him on 10/09.
3) Greg basically tells me that yes, the first formulation was a dud and that for whatever reason the 2nd gen bushings didn’t hold up. And I’ll add, ‘didn’t solve the vibration problem satisfactorily’. I asked if they had a 3rd gen batch produced, and he said they did. I asked that the send back my mount with the red 3rd gen bushings so I could test them out, and I’ll explain that later.
Greg also commented that they are now recommending we use the black 75A bushings, which are referenced as the street/strip mounts. He reasoning basically had to do with ‘our engines’ and that they really need the stronger bushings. So, basically the black bushing are not only firmer, but also stronger, okay, makes sense. See my comments below for more on this. Greg also comments that while they have a lifetime warranty, these or any mounts (well bushings) will last as long as some of us will drive these cars, but in my opinion they will last much longer than the OEM mounts and are significantly easier to replace. Greg then transfers me to Tim so we can talk about testing the 3rd gen bushings.
4) Talk with Tim and I get the sense they are at a loss on actually being able to resolve the issue 100%. Tim agrees to move forward and send me the latest bushings.
I will update everyone once I get them, . . . .sigh
Okay, my next steps, and note that I’m currently running the black mounts on the front and rear, and I’m still happy with the pure performance part, but wish the vibrations would be like they are in neutral with the A/C off . . . that would be perfectly acceptable to me, but alas, it’s not good enough, so come on 3rd gen bushings.
1) Remove the rear black mount and install the 3rd gen red bushing. And hope this is good enough, or it’s game over as I don’t believe there’s much more IM can do or will do at this point. It’s really dependent on what we find out with these other configurations. I’m not saying this as a fact, but just
trying to prepare everyone for what may end up being.
2) After testing the red in the rear and the black in the front, I will swap out the black front and install the red. I will post results of this as well.
3) And just for grins, I will install the black in the rear while leaving the red in the front. I want to know how each works in hopes that it’ll help give us and IM more insight on what else to try.
All righty then, here’s some recommendations.
For those of you who want as close to factory smoothness as possible, I think the closest you’ll come to that with IM mounts, Use the red mounts on the front and side, and the OEM mount in the rear. It’s not perfect, but a pretty good compromise. Let me explain.
In regard to the OEM mounts, and based on my and others on the forum’s experience, the front and side mounts take the most abuse. In my case they were totally ripped apart. It is my belief that the rear OEM mounts would hold up with IM mounts on the front and side. And the best configuration might end up being black on the front, red on the side and OEM on the rear. However, it’ll be some time before I get to that point, and that would mean I’m throwing in the towel on the vibration being resolved.
Those of you who are all about performance and don’t mind the mild vibrations with the A/C off, or moderate vibrations with the A/C on, blacks in the front and rear may be the way to go, but keep up with this thread as we’re still working towards a resolution.
Those of you, who are not giving up yet, stay tuned. I’m going to test at least 3 more configurations to see what the gets us.
Ruf
Okay guys, sorry about the delays . . . work has been kicking my
and with the wifey and kids hogging the computer for things like school work, system time is a premium. Anyway, I talked with both Greg and Tim today to get a verdict on where things are going, so here's a summary.
Some comments on references to mounts and such. There are 3 basic components we’re dealing with here. 1) is the bracket, 2) is the motor mount in which the bushings are place and 3) the actually bushing itself.
First off with Greg to get the scoop on the formulation of the bushings. Note, IM has a separate source for the bushings, so as I understood it from Greg, IM did not request a formulation change in the first place, so they recognize the it's a problem and are doing what they can to make things acceptable. Keep that word in mind as we move forward, it'll define when some of you bail or stick with it.
1) As we pretty much already know, the first batch was a failure. The formulation was designed to actually allow some more engine movement, and thus less vibration. However, for whatever reason our engine mounting design does not like it. So back to the drawing board and IM had their supplier change the formulation to something harder/stronger. These are what I call the 2nd gen red bushings. And IM also changed up the motor mount as well.
2) Myself and some others get the 2nd gen bushings. Mine last about a week and they’re toast. However, the vibrations did get better, but not enough for those whose cars are daily drivers. I send the mount and red bushings back for analysis. This was a slow process and with IM people in and out of the office, Greg was not back until 10/08, and I get with him on 10/09.
3) Greg basically tells me that yes, the first formulation was a dud and that for whatever reason the 2nd gen bushings didn’t hold up. And I’ll add, ‘didn’t solve the vibration problem satisfactorily’. I asked if they had a 3rd gen batch produced, and he said they did. I asked that the send back my mount with the red 3rd gen bushings so I could test them out, and I’ll explain that later.
Greg also commented that they are now recommending we use the black 75A bushings, which are referenced as the street/strip mounts. He reasoning basically had to do with ‘our engines’ and that they really need the stronger bushings. So, basically the black bushing are not only firmer, but also stronger, okay, makes sense. See my comments below for more on this. Greg also comments that while they have a lifetime warranty, these or any mounts (well bushings) will last as long as some of us will drive these cars, but in my opinion they will last much longer than the OEM mounts and are significantly easier to replace. Greg then transfers me to Tim so we can talk about testing the 3rd gen bushings.
4) Talk with Tim and I get the sense they are at a loss on actually being able to resolve the issue 100%. Tim agrees to move forward and send me the latest bushings.
I will update everyone once I get them, . . . .sighOkay, my next steps, and note that I’m currently running the black mounts on the front and rear, and I’m still happy with the pure performance part, but wish the vibrations would be like they are in neutral with the A/C off . . . that would be perfectly acceptable to me, but alas, it’s not good enough, so come on 3rd gen bushings.
1) Remove the rear black mount and install the 3rd gen red bushing. And hope this is good enough, or it’s game over as I don’t believe there’s much more IM can do or will do at this point. It’s really dependent on what we find out with these other configurations. I’m not saying this as a fact, but just
trying to prepare everyone for what may end up being.
2) After testing the red in the rear and the black in the front, I will swap out the black front and install the red. I will post results of this as well.
3) And just for grins, I will install the black in the rear while leaving the red in the front. I want to know how each works in hopes that it’ll help give us and IM more insight on what else to try.
All righty then, here’s some recommendations.
For those of you who want as close to factory smoothness as possible, I think the closest you’ll come to that with IM mounts, Use the red mounts on the front and side, and the OEM mount in the rear. It’s not perfect, but a pretty good compromise. Let me explain.
In regard to the OEM mounts, and based on my and others on the forum’s experience, the front and side mounts take the most abuse. In my case they were totally ripped apart. It is my belief that the rear OEM mounts would hold up with IM mounts on the front and side. And the best configuration might end up being black on the front, red on the side and OEM on the rear. However, it’ll be some time before I get to that point, and that would mean I’m throwing in the towel on the vibration being resolved.
Those of you who are all about performance and don’t mind the mild vibrations with the A/C off, or moderate vibrations with the A/C on, blacks in the front and rear may be the way to go, but keep up with this thread as we’re still working towards a resolution.
Those of you, who are not giving up yet, stay tuned. I’m going to test at least 3 more configurations to see what the gets us.
Ruf
Last edited by RUF87; 10-09-2008 at 11:38 PM. Reason: sig
10-10-2008, 01:32 PM
#45
6G TLX-S
Ruf87, I wonder if designing bushings for a new car is such problematic, or our cars use bushings that are difficult to design.
10-10-2008, 02:30 PM
#46
Alright, I just came upon this thread...is the issue with IM's mounts specifically related to the 2G? I just bought some IM mounts for my 3G, and am wondering if I should return them or not? The part # is 10750, stiffness 60A. Are these the 2nd generation mounts, or the 1st? Should I install these or return them? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
10-11-2008, 01:57 AM
#47
Safety Car
I could be wrong here, but I will do my part to offer some insight.
I own a 2006 TL (3G) and a 2002 TL (2G).
I wanted these mounts long before they were being made for my '06.
I wanted the mounts so much that I was willing to do my own R&D to make it happen.
I opened the hood of my 2G and 3G while parked side-by-side. I compared the engine mounts visually.
I studied the parts diagrams of both cars to compare part numbers.
I could had, in theory, used the 2G mounts in my 3G if I was willing to put the 2G engine bracket on my 3G. This is the bracket that mounts to the engine block, and it is the bracket that bolts onto the mount.
IMHO, the 2G and 3G are essentially the same car. It is just the body that is radically different. Everything under the skin (body) is nearly identical.
So to answer your question "is the issue with IM's mounts specifically related to the 2G?", the answer in my opinion is NO. They are the same car for the sake of this discussion.
I was aware of this thread BEFORE I ordered my mounts for my 3G. This is why I ordered the Black 75A bushings. For as long as I had been wishing for these mounts for 3G, and as eager as I am to get these mounts, I wanted to make damn sure that I was not getting "bubble gum" bushing. I want my mounts to last the lifetime of my car. In retrospect, I am glad that I got the Black 75A.
I own a 2006 TL (3G) and a 2002 TL (2G).
I wanted these mounts long before they were being made for my '06.
I wanted the mounts so much that I was willing to do my own R&D to make it happen.
I opened the hood of my 2G and 3G while parked side-by-side. I compared the engine mounts visually.
I studied the parts diagrams of both cars to compare part numbers.
I could had, in theory, used the 2G mounts in my 3G if I was willing to put the 2G engine bracket on my 3G. This is the bracket that mounts to the engine block, and it is the bracket that bolts onto the mount.
IMHO, the 2G and 3G are essentially the same car. It is just the body that is radically different. Everything under the skin (body) is nearly identical.
So to answer your question "is the issue with IM's mounts specifically related to the 2G?", the answer in my opinion is NO. They are the same car for the sake of this discussion.
I was aware of this thread BEFORE I ordered my mounts for my 3G. This is why I ordered the Black 75A bushings. For as long as I had been wishing for these mounts for 3G, and as eager as I am to get these mounts, I wanted to make damn sure that I was not getting "bubble gum" bushing. I want my mounts to last the lifetime of my car. In retrospect, I am glad that I got the Black 75A.
10-12-2008, 02:35 AM
#52
I could be wrong here, but I will do my part to offer some insight.
I own a 2006 TL (3G) and a 2002 TL (2G).
I wanted these mounts long before they were being made for my '06.
I wanted the mounts so much that I was willing to do my own R&D to make it happen.
I opened the hood of my 2G and 3G while parked side-by-side. I compared the engine mounts visually.
I studied the parts diagrams of both cars to compare part numbers.
I could had, in theory, used the 2G mounts in my 3G if I was willing to put the 2G engine bracket on my 3G. This is the bracket that mounts to the engine block, and it is the bracket that bolts onto the mount.
IMHO, the 2G and 3G are essentially the same car. It is just the body that is radically different. Everything under the skin (body) is nearly identical.
So to answer your question "is the issue with IM's mounts specifically related to the 2G?", the answer in my opinion is NO. They are the same car for the sake of this discussion.
I was aware of this thread BEFORE I ordered my mounts for my 3G. This is why I ordered the Black 75A bushings. For as long as I had been wishing for these mounts for 3G, and as eager as I am to get these mounts, I wanted to make damn sure that I was not getting "bubble gum" bushing. I want my mounts to last the lifetime of my car. In retrospect, I am glad that I got the Black 75A.
I own a 2006 TL (3G) and a 2002 TL (2G).
I wanted these mounts long before they were being made for my '06.
I wanted the mounts so much that I was willing to do my own R&D to make it happen.
I opened the hood of my 2G and 3G while parked side-by-side. I compared the engine mounts visually.
I studied the parts diagrams of both cars to compare part numbers.
I could had, in theory, used the 2G mounts in my 3G if I was willing to put the 2G engine bracket on my 3G. This is the bracket that mounts to the engine block, and it is the bracket that bolts onto the mount.
IMHO, the 2G and 3G are essentially the same car. It is just the body that is radically different. Everything under the skin (body) is nearly identical.
So to answer your question "is the issue with IM's mounts specifically related to the 2G?", the answer in my opinion is NO. They are the same car for the sake of this discussion.
I was aware of this thread BEFORE I ordered my mounts for my 3G. This is why I ordered the Black 75A bushings. For as long as I had been wishing for these mounts for 3G, and as eager as I am to get these mounts, I wanted to make damn sure that I was not getting "bubble gum" bushing. I want my mounts to last the lifetime of my car. In retrospect, I am glad that I got the Black 75A.
10-12-2008, 03:05 PM
#53
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
There's also some recent data from IM that indicates our engine-tranny mounting design results in increased load transfer to the rear mount, and greater pulling forces on the front and side mount. This could be the case as my experince and results with both the OEM and IM mounts would support this theory. For more on this visit the CL 2nd gen forum as there are a lot more posts there.
And, stay tuned as I have some more configurations and hopefully a slight design change request for IM on the front mount that may help with the vibration issues.
Stay tuned.
Ruf
10-12-2008, 03:13 PM
#54
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Inaccurate is pretty much accurate 
.
The vibration issue actually has less to do with the firmness of the mount. So if you don't mind some mild or moderate vibrations, you could run all black (75A) mounts on the front and rear. However, unless your OEM mounts are shot and have to be replaced, you might want to wait a bit and see how the 3rd gen (reds) work out in various configurations with the black bushings. Again, go to the CL forum for more details.
Ruf
.The vibration issue actually has less to do with the firmness of the mount. So if you don't mind some mild or moderate vibrations, you could run all black (75A) mounts on the front and rear. However, unless your OEM mounts are shot and have to be replaced, you might want to wait a bit and see how the 3rd gen (reds) work out in various configurations with the black bushings. Again, go to the CL forum for more details.
Ruf
10-12-2008, 10:30 PM
#55
Inaccurate is pretty much accurate .
The vibration issue actually has less to do with the firmness of the mount. So if you don't mind some mild or moderate vibrations, you could run all black (75A) mounts on the front and rear. However, unless your OEM mounts are shot and have to be replaced, you might want to wait a bit and see how the 3rd gen (reds) work out in various configurations with the black bushings. Again, go to the CL forum for more details.
Ruf
.The vibration issue actually has less to do with the firmness of the mount. So if you don't mind some mild or moderate vibrations, you could run all black (75A) mounts on the front and rear. However, unless your OEM mounts are shot and have to be replaced, you might want to wait a bit and see how the 3rd gen (reds) work out in various configurations with the black bushings. Again, go to the CL forum for more details.
Ruf
10-12-2008, 11:04 PM
#56
I'm still running the 1st gen mounts (I think.. I was part of the first GB and got sent a new side mount for free) and they feel fine to me. I may look into upgrading but these feel fine for now. I don't have the vibrations you guys have when stopped because mine's not in drive, it's just idling in neutral (or first with the clutch in).
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
#58
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
If you can't or don't want to wait, my
is for you to keep the rear stock and put the 75As up front.Ruf
10-16-2008, 09:36 AM
#59
400+ WHP Coming Soon!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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10-16-2008, 12:03 PM
#60
-Arsenic-
10-16-2008, 10:15 PM
#62
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
10-16-2008, 10:17 PM
#63
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Well . . . IM was going to ship me back a set of the mounts with the 3rd gen bushings to continue testing out various configs . . . and the front desk said there's no record of anything being shipped to me . . . . 
I was about to get annoyed with them but they didn't ship yet for a reason. . .
The reason was that IM has made yet another design change to the motor mounts themselves. And they were waiting on them to be finished up before sending everything out to me, so I'm getting to test out the new now 3rd gen mounts with the 3rd gen bushings.
They will be shipped out Monday, so it will be later next week before I get them, but the good news it that IM has taken the initiative to make even more changes without our input or nagging.
Anyway, I'm not going to claim victory yet, but we're getting various set-ups to test and that should help guide which direction the mods need to take, and hopefully to a resolution for all. So we're still in the game.
On the down side . . . my tranny flared yesterday and didn't shift out of 2nd gear for a second or two, and is disengaging power to the drivetrain . . . when letting off the gas . . . sounds like tranny #2 may be in my future.
Ruf
I was about to get annoyed with them but they didn't ship yet for a reason. . . The reason was that IM has made yet another design change to the motor mounts themselves. And they were waiting on them to be finished up before sending everything out to me, so I'm getting to test out the new now 3rd gen mounts with the 3rd gen bushings.
They will be shipped out Monday, so it will be later next week before I get them, but the good news it that IM has taken the initiative to make even more changes without our input or nagging.
Anyway, I'm not going to claim victory yet, but we're getting various set-ups to test and that should help guide which direction the mods need to take, and hopefully to a resolution for all. So we're still in the game.
On the down side . . . my tranny flared yesterday and didn't shift out of 2nd gear for a second or two, and is disengaging power to the drivetrain . . . when letting off the gas . . . sounds like tranny #2 may be in my future.
Ruf
10-23-2008, 07:15 PM
#64
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
WE HAVE MOTOR MOUNTS!!
And boy were they really redesigned! This is a totally different way to approach the issue, and I like it. I hope it works as there's probably not much more we or IM can do.
The design follows the OEM approach where the bushing/mounts run vertical verses horizontal. Anyway, here are some pics so you can see for yourselves.
I'll be installing them this weekend and will report on the results . . . .
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
Ruf
And boy were they really redesigned!
This is a totally different way to approach the issue, and I like it. I hope it works as there's probably not much more we or IM can do. The design follows the OEM approach where the bushing/mounts run vertical verses horizontal. Anyway, here are some pics so you can see for yourselves.
I'll be installing them this weekend and will report on the results . . . .
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
http://
Ruf
10-23-2008, 09:53 PM
#67
Safety Car
Same question I got. This might work as a side mount...... But I bet (nearly guarantee) that if this is used for the front and/or rear mount, IT WILL SUFFER A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
IM =
or
Inaccurate =
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
IM =
or
Inaccurate =
10-25-2008, 02:19 AM
#70
Same question I got. This might work as a side mount...... But I bet (nearly guarantee) that if this is used for the front and/or rear mount, IT WILL SUFFER A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
IM =
or
Inaccurate =
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
IM =
or
Inaccurate =
10-25-2008, 09:51 PM
#72
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Well guys . . . we're going no where fast . . .
I took off a little early Friday to install the new mounts and it went downhill from there. And I had really high hopes for something to come out of it.
First off, the new design is harder to install. You have to place the retainer (the large aluminum washer) a washer and the nut at the same time or things fall. And to make it worse, the bolt wasn't long enough to work with, so I had to make a run and get a 1/2" longer bolt, and I got lock nuts while I was at it. The bolt provided would work if you didn't have to try and hold all 3 pieces while trying to get the nut to start when only about 1/8th" is showing.
Anyway a bit tricky, but with the longer bolt I can get it started. The next trick was tightening the bolt. I ended up getting a 19mm open end wrench on the bottom nut . . . with some finessing.
Okay, so the rear is installed and I leave the front as it was (black bushings) and start it up . . . . . . the vibrations are actually worse.
Well, at that point I decide to replace the front and see what that does. The front ends up being a bit trickier than the rear. The challenge is getting a wrench on the nut so I can tighten it. I had to get the wrench in position from the bottom . . and placing it against the engine so it would stay in place. Then go back from the top, hold the wrench in place and then tighten it down. Again, fire it up . . . and it vibrates even more, much like the first set of red ones.
Okay, so while the new design seemed to make sense . . providing proper support of the bushings and such, the vibrations won't cut it. The only way I'd run it like that is if it was mostly a track car and you don't mind sitting in a vibrator chair.
On top of it all, see the next post for pics of the black bushings . . . that's right . . . they started to wear and were doughing too. So they aren't even an option . . unless you want to replace the bushings every 3 months.
Well, back to the drawing board with IM . . . and unless they have something positive to say about what we learned . . . I'm probably going to put the OEM back in the rear . . and plan to keep the new design up front and side and see how that works.
It's a real bummer, but maybe this is why Honda designed this fluid filled OEM mount to eliminate vibrations at idle, and then stiffen under acceleration. The drawbacks to this design is that they can't take the pounding and a worthless in dealing with wheel hop. I'll be out at the start of the week, but will call IM when I return, so stay tuned.
Ruf
I took off a little early Friday to install the new mounts and it went downhill from there. And I had really high hopes for something to come out of it.
First off, the new design is harder to install. You have to place the retainer (the large aluminum washer) a washer and the nut at the same time or things fall. And to make it worse, the bolt wasn't long enough to work with, so I had to make a run and get a 1/2" longer bolt, and I got lock nuts while I was at it. The bolt provided would work if you didn't have to try and hold all 3 pieces while trying to get the nut to start when only about 1/8th" is showing.
Anyway a bit tricky, but with the longer bolt I can get it started. The next trick was tightening the bolt. I ended up getting a 19mm open end wrench on the bottom nut . . . with some finessing.
Okay, so the rear is installed and I leave the front as it was (black bushings) and start it up . . . . . . the vibrations are actually worse.
Well, at that point I decide to replace the front and see what that does. The front ends up being a bit trickier than the rear. The challenge is getting a wrench on the nut so I can tighten it. I had to get the wrench in position from the bottom . . and placing it against the engine so it would stay in place. Then go back from the top, hold the wrench in place and then tighten it down. Again, fire it up . . . and it vibrates even more, much like the first set of red ones.
Okay, so while the new design seemed to make sense . . providing proper support of the bushings and such, the vibrations won't cut it. The only way I'd run it like that is if it was mostly a track car and you don't mind sitting in a vibrator chair.
On top of it all, see the next post for pics of the black bushings . . . that's right . . . they started to wear and were doughing too. So they aren't even an option . . unless you want to replace the bushings every 3 months.
Well, back to the drawing board with IM . . . and unless they have something positive to say about what we learned . . . I'm probably going to put the OEM back in the rear . . and plan to keep the new design up front and side and see how that works.
It's a real bummer, but maybe this is why Honda designed this fluid filled OEM mount to eliminate vibrations at idle, and then stiffen under acceleration. The drawbacks to this design is that they can't take the pounding and a worthless in dealing with wheel hop. I'll be out at the start of the week, but will call IM when I return, so stay tuned.
Ruf
10-25-2008, 09:54 PM
#73
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Here are pics of the black bushings and the installed mount for those that had questions about how its supposed to work.
From this pic you can see how the bottom looks, and visualize the engine bracket on the top, between the large washer and the bushing. It's a better design than the horizontal mount that doesn't properly support the bushings, which is why we get the doughing.
Ruf
From this pic you can see how the bottom looks, and visualize the engine bracket on the top, between the large washer and the bushing. It's a better design than the horizontal mount that doesn't properly support the bushings, which is why we get the doughing.
Ruf
10-25-2008, 10:04 PM
#74
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Same question I got. This might work as a side mount...... But I bet (nearly guarantee) that if this is used for the front and/or rear mount, IT WILL SUFFER A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
I see how IM thinks that those two aluminum washers will produce a pressure fit via squeezing the urethane against the inside diameter of the bracket.... But, I think that IM is severely UNDERESTIMATING the forces at work.
Time will tell which of the following equations below is true.
I'd have no problem running them, if they solved the vibration problem. I also got to test drive it today to see how it compared and I actually felt that the engine movement was less than with the black mounts. That would in part explain why the increase in vibrations.
Anyway, I'll have a serious conversation with IM next week and see what other tricks they have up their sleeves . . . or I'm giving up and putting an OEM back on the rear.
Ruf
02 WDP TLS Black Interior w/ Black Grill Inserts
**1/4mile 14.46 @96.07MPH
(**pre headers, CAT, IMMs & BBTBs)
17x7 Konig Appeals SMF -
P225/45ZR-17 Bridgestone RE960 AS
(used Ziex 512s track only)
CT Icebox, RamAir, Sways & Springs
3rd Gen Innovative Motor Mounts
BBTBs, Mugen Cooling Mods & Thermoblok
XS Headers - Ceramic Coated & Random-Tech CAT
NEO Anti Freeze & 5w-20 oil
10-25-2008, 11:35 PM
#77
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
Ruf
10-25-2008, 11:37 PM
#78
Lead Footed
Thread Starter
10-26-2008, 03:28 AM
#80
Safety Car
I disagree ! These are not "donutting" like the red bushings.
The red bushings looked like shit. The red one were disintegrating.
These black bushing are intact with NO disintegration. What you are seeing is just the bushing "taking a set" from the weight of the motor sitting on the bushings. I think that is to be expected and normal. But, the black bushing are NOT disintegrating like the red bushings !!!!
