brado

good point. thanks man.

dvsxlt247

so these headers really are being manufactured already by DC and will be for sale soon???? is Excelerate gona be able to sell them????

Edward'TLS

Let me tell you what's relevant and what's irrelevant.

First you said "ALL headers provide the same performance gains." Then later you said "For all intents and purposes, all headers for a given model car produce the same gains."

Since almost all makes of aftermarket TL headers are direct copy of one another, you are correct in saying there won't be any performance gains or difference between them. However, my experience from playing around with various makes of headers for my previous "given model car" tells me not all headers provide the same performance gains. Go to the library and dig up some back issues of Import Tuner Car Magazine or Sport Compact Car Magazine that has header comparison tests (again for a "given model car") to read. These tests have comprehesive dyno plots and comments, and you'll be surprise how different these curves compare to one another in terms of bumps and dips and locations of peak horsepower and peak torque.

As of people's interest in #2, it is hard to come by a header that doesn't resonate at some rpm under some particular loading conditions. Remember that headers increase exhaust air flow by tuned resonance effect. When the exhaust gas resonant frequency matches the natural frequency of the header, the header will vibrate and resonante. It is up to how good the maker is to damper down the vibration. So extensive road tests are needed, and all these tests added cost to the price of the header. But each make of header will resonate at different frequency (or rpm under a particular engine load) due to construction material, tube wall thickness, and how the joints are welding together even though it is copied from other makes.

kuni808

just want to add my 2 cents. headers are tuned in different ways. but the thing with our Tls is we have no choice in design. It basically have to be a 3 into 1. thats how they are made due to the engine layout. the comparisons on all headers depends on the design. like a 4-1 header will differ from a 4-2-1.. 4-1 will give a peak top end Hp while a 4-2-1 will give more power in the earlier part of the power band. most headers are made for top end. though. but until someone can make individual headers with there own downpipes like V8s do then majority all the header selection for our TLs will be roughly the same amount of power. what i dont get is the DC headers on the front primarys. if they make the front primarys longer and not equal then how is that suppose to effect the exhaust flow?? thats what i dont get. it will be a little off?? but it might be a logical design as well. since the rear exhaust does not have to travel that far as oppose the front. so i mean it all depends on when the car is dynoed to be proven. I dont really want to change my headers again since that was a pain in the ass. but i again i dont plan on keeping my TL past 100k. my megans will suffice for now. DC is a great brand though. dont get me wrong cant go wrong with them. unless they dont fit..

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Yes I have 3 on the way and am trying to get more. I will be having a GB on them soon.

pchong154

as soon as you get that goin and i hear that the fitting isnt an issue you can count me in on one...

DzTL-S

EXCELERATE when GB comes will DC have the carb# on the headers?

TL-CrAzIe-05

Are these headers also for the 2004-2006 TL's???? Thanks.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

As of right now no CARB # but it usually takes a little time after a product is released to get a CARB #. So based on AEM's past record, I'm assuming one will be following shortly.

No, sorry.

NiteQwill

great response

Phesto

The manifold on the 3rd gen is welded on, no headers for 3rd gen....Look into the Eshift Cats

Jakester

So I should recieve my DC headers on Monday evening and can't wait to get started installing them. I think I can get my hands on an impact wrench to get the cat off but what torque setting should I use when attaching the new headers? I've searched and cannot seem to find a straight answer.

-Jake

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

CL/TL headers are on their way. I am taking pre-orders because these headers are selling quickly. Anyone who wants one just send payment. I have 3 coming and they are first come, first serve and I am putting in another order with DC Sports so I need a count of how many more I need. If you want one just send payment to assure you get a header. DC Sports is already back-ordered so the sooner I get payment the sooner I can order.

Unkn0VV17

Hey Jake...anything new with the headers?

Jakester

Actually... yeah. I've developed a small but noticable air leak on the rear header where it connects to the downpipe. I'm trying to contact DC Sports directly to see if I should apply another gasket or try some of liquid gaskey sealant. Otherwise everything else appears to be fine.


-Jake

fsttyms1

Have you checked to make sure that all the bolts are tight?

Jakester

That was the first thing I did. It is almost as if the rear header is not completely flush with the the downpipe and instead at a very very slight angle. The air coming out can be felt around the rear of the connection.

sbuswell

that sucks, hopefully some liquid gasket can cure that problem, definitely call DC and report back. If I ever need a new pair of headers this was the brand of choice for me so I am interested in knowing about any fitment issues as well. BTW my Stones still look brand new and I have absolutely no issues and very minimal resonance, but who knows how long they will hold up.

Jakester

Guys were very helpful and are sending another gasket free of charge. Will give it a try and let ya'll know.

2003TL-S

Could you try to just loosen up the rear header and where it connects to the downpipe and adjust the angle that it connects to the downpipe??

Jakester

I had thought of that too. I figure when I get the gasket I'll tinker around with it and see what works. Will keep you all posted.

-Jake

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

From what you described I doubt there is an issue with the header flange. It sealed before so the only reason it wouldn't seal now is loose bolts or a bad exhaust gasket.

shnouz

i was wondering if its going to make a difference with putting the new headers on and not adding an exhaust with it, worth just buying the headers? or suggest getting exhaust too?

2003TL-S

No it won't make a difference since you aren't replacing the cat. In other words the headers mount up to the stock catalytic converter, stock mounting place, therefore everything after that can remain stock. Aftermarket exhaust will just give you a different sound thats it, not necessary.

fsttyms1

Aftermarket Exhaust on our cars really dont yeild any hp gains. Headers will show an improvment in HP alone

I think he means HP wise.

shnouz

thanks guys helps a lot

shnouz

so what kind hp gain would i be expecting with just changing headers?, i have an AEM CAI but im gonna keep the whole exhaust stock.

Trojanman750

10-15 tops...probably less


if a few more people get these installed and report no problems i will definately buy these and swap them...then its time to throw my megans off a cliff

Rpappi

everyone that has the DC headers. how are they holding up and unusual noise. leakage. anything im still debating on getting them and what to know how they are holding up.

fsttyms1

Debating? They are far better than alpha and megan

Trojanman750

but then again they are twice the price of megans.....the average price is around 400 for these?

MikePA

Everybody wants something for nothing. If you like resonance, get the Megans.

parshooter

I sure am glad I found this forum. Before reading these header threads, I was considering redoing the whole exhaust system at some point. Now, after reading these, I see that it doesn't seem to be worth the money and trouble for the added "top end" horsepower. Even reading that a cat-back system is really only good for a deeper sound, I won't even go that route now. Thanks for all the info, your experiences have saved me mucho $$$

ProvidenceLeaf

I wouldn't get too discouraged. The people with header problems usually have Megan and Alphaworks. The problem I have with DC Sports headers is very minimal. I just need to figure out where a vibration in coming from when I'm stepping on the gas at very low rpms(Below 2000). I'm sure it will be a quick fix...I just don't have a chance right now because I just had surgery. If you felt the difference with not having headers and having them...YOU WOULD GET THEM! I'm an old bastard just like you, but I'm still a kid behind the wheel. If you have the extra $$$ buy the Comptech headers (100% no problems) if you want to save some $$$ buy the DC Sports headers. They make great quality stuff.

As far as the exhaust...It sounds even better to me now that the headers are on and the larger tips look great too. Our stock tips are way too small IMO!

Anyway, I'm not trying to be a sales person, but remember some of the people on here have never installed anything until now, and some of them do it wrong and that is the cause of many of these complaints on here. Just keep reading the threads daily and you will find out what products are good and what producs to stay away from.

(I just want you to spend lots of $$$ like most of us have done in here!)

Trojanman750

what exactly is the difference between SS and ceramic?? exlerate was saying that if these were SS add at least 300 to the price. is ceramic bad quality or something??

i have megan SS rigth now, but im dying to get rid of them....

Edward'TLS

If you have taken the time to read back the beginnings of the DC Header threads, you will find the following fore-mentioned differences.

(1) Ceramic-coated headers are made from mild steel and are more forgiving to minor flexes due to engine movement and stresses due to imperfect fitment. SS headers tend to crack at the welding joints, and even sooner if the pipings have to be forced into place to fit.
(2) The cermaic coating keeps the heat inside the header. So the engine compartment and therefore the intake air is cooler.

I'll definitely pick CC over SS headers if given a choice. CC headers are much cheaper too.

ProvidenceLeaf

Stainless Steel is exactlly what is means...It will never rust or stain...that is why the additional cost (more expensive to produce). The ceramic ones may turn color after a while or even rust. It's not like they will disintegrate before your eyes. There is no difference in gains. There may be some more differences, but those are the most apparent ones.

parshooter

Believe me, I am NOT discouraged. I am sincere when I say thanks, because I just saved a bunch of money and headaches learning from the experiences of the members of this forum. From what I have read, the money-to-horsepower ratio is not even close to being worth the trouble and effort for exhaust modification. Of course, this is in MY case, only doing a CAI and crank pulley modification. Those with more extensive mods will probably benifit more from exhaust mods, but not in my case.

I have been down this road with other cars, not new to me

ProvidenceLeaf

Got it dude...just trying to help out. Yeah this forum is great. It has helped me a lot in choosing which mods and what companies are better. Welcome to the club!

I know what you mean...I promised myself I wouldn't do this again when I bouth this car a few months ago...I guess I lied to myself! Oh yeah I've officially lost my mind.

Sims

good to hear some positive reviews of the DC headers. Seems like Comptech had the CL/TL market cornered for a while now unless you get the $150 SS set off ebay. Considering picking up a set of DC's myself, but its down the road a ways, other things to come first. Lets keep the information from the guys who have installed it coming!