2nd gen swap
04-09-2008, 11:04 PM
#1
2nd gen swap
sory havent been on the forums for awhile. i have a 00 3.2 tl, i wanted to swap the motor and tranny. now i have few question. would the 3.5 v6 and 6speed from new tl fit? or the 3.5 and auto fit in the 00 tl? or must i only use the 3.2 260 hp cl-s powertrain to work?
04-09-2008, 11:31 PM
#2
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iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by 00laguna
sory havent been on the forums for awhile. i have a 00 3.2 tl, i wanted to swap the motor and tranny. now i have few question. would the 3.5 v6 and 6speed from new tl fit? or the 3.5 and auto fit in the 00 tl? or must i only use the 3.2 260 hp cl-s powertrain to work?
There are several threads on here that will answer some of your questions.
Here are some good options:
'02-'04 Odyssey or '03-'04 Pilot = J35a4 straight drop in
or
'02-'03 TL-S & CL-S = J32a2 with J35a4 Crank, rods, bearings to make it 3.5
You could swap a whole J35a4 with no modifications.
It's easier, cheaper and still fast. Even the CL-S will have trouble with this swap and a 6MT upgrade.
Here are the transmissions that will fit.
'03 CL-S transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ TL transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ Accord V6 transmission (no LSD, but you could buy one at Acura for $850)
The Accord trannys cost lest too. So if you find one for 1 grand or under your in luck. Just buy the LSD brand new and install it and your good to go.
They all are pretty much the same tranny anyways.
04-10-2008, 07:53 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by InspireTL
Well I'm currently in the process of doing an engine build of my own.
There are several threads on here that will answer some of your questions.
Here are some good options:
'02-'04 Odyssey or '03-'04 Pilot = J35a4 straight drop in
or
'02-'03 TL-S & CL-S = J32a2 with J35a4 Crank, rods, bearings to make it 3.5
You could swap a whole J35a4 with no modifications.
It's easier, cheaper and still fast. Even the CL-S will have trouble with this swap and a 6MT upgrade.
Here are the transmissions that will fit.
'03 CL-S transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ TL transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ Accord V6 transmission (no LSD, but you could buy one at Acura for $850)
The Accord trannys cost lest too. So if you find one for 1 grand or under your in luck. Just buy the LSD brand new and install it and your good to go.
They all are pretty much the same tranny anyways.
There are several threads on here that will answer some of your questions.
Here are some good options:
'02-'04 Odyssey or '03-'04 Pilot = J35a4 straight drop in
or
'02-'03 TL-S & CL-S = J32a2 with J35a4 Crank, rods, bearings to make it 3.5
You could swap a whole J35a4 with no modifications.
It's easier, cheaper and still fast. Even the CL-S will have trouble with this swap and a 6MT upgrade.
Here are the transmissions that will fit.
'03 CL-S transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ TL transmission (LSD Equipped)
'04+ Accord V6 transmission (no LSD, but you could buy one at Acura for $850)
The Accord trannys cost lest too. So if you find one for 1 grand or under your in luck. Just buy the LSD brand new and install it and your good to go.
They all are pretty much the same tranny anyways.
Also use the RL pistons for higher compression with the oddy crank and connecting rods.
04-10-2008, 08:05 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
And you can find the 6 speed with LSD for 1300 if you search hard enough, plus you dont have to crack open the trans to do it.
Also use the RL pistons for higher compression with the oddy crank and connecting rods.
Also use the RL pistons for higher compression with the oddy crank and connecting rods.
Awesome N/A build IMO.
CL-S cams would compliment the J35a4 well if you go that way.
04-10-2008, 09:01 PM
#6
FPR pimpin'
your in ontario, i believe the junkyard in courtice has a CL-6 right now, not sure if the tranny is gone yet... i got the one from the yard in london already 
04-10-2008, 09:14 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by MurkyRiversTL
and where does one find these parts?
Trending Topics
04-10-2008, 09:33 PM
#8
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iTrader: (5)
^
to elaborate,
Especially since you have the J32a2 already. Get the crank, the bearings that go with it, and rods also. If you want higher compression get the RL pistons and the rings.
Like Kris said you want all of these new.
to elaborate,
Especially since you have the J32a2 already. Get the crank, the bearings that go with it, and rods also. If you want higher compression get the RL pistons and the rings.
Like Kris said you want all of these new.
04-10-2008, 11:25 PM
#9
thanks for the help. i am picking up another 00 tl with very high milage for cheap! so i am going to do the swap in that one and keep my other tl the way it is still like new! i was wondering if i just took the stock engine apart could i just stuff it with rl pistons and oddessy rods etc? and if i swapped the internals what ecu would i run it on? only kind of swaps ive done before were on the older turbo dodges they used common block after 89, so the difference from there 2.2 to 2.5L 4cyl was the crank rods and pistons. i wonder can i do that with stock tl motor think its j32a1 , or is it why bother the type s block stronger? i will look into that scrap yard, i am in ottawa. i can wait this car will make the ultimate sleeper!
04-11-2008, 06:42 AM
#11
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by MurkyRiversTL
when doing this internal swap what type of gains can be expected?.
im sure there are other readers who are curious...... including me.
im sure there are other readers who are curious...... including me.
You guys arent searching/reading very good
Many threads on it. From the CL guys that have done it it seems ho is close to what the SC is on the small boost pulleyhttps://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=7
The search button works for this as well
this just a parts list with engine codes and such
here is more to chew on
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A*/J30A1
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power
J35A*/J32A2
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage:
Need RL pistons.
UPDATE (6/23/2005)
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01 or '02 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons
(new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake)
valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be
used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you,
you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00 $367.32
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00 $79.48 each
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to
increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher
redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey '01, '02 block is the best bet.
The best bet is to have '01 Odyssey block and swap in '05 RL pistons. Not sure about '01-02 MDX block this should
be checked. '03-04 MDX crankshaft which is the same part as '05 RL
will not work.
Bottom line, I checked crank, rods cannot be used from either '03-04 MDX or '05 RL on Odyssey block - they won't
work. Only 'RL pistons/rings are good.
Piston Part#
13010-RJA-000, 2005 RL, $50.47, 36mm/30mm (intake/exhaust valves)
13010-PGK-A01, 2002-2004 Odyssey, $29.89, 30mm/30mm
and Accord V6 valves are 30mm/30mm.
And since MDX piston is exactly the same as Odyssey, let's stick to Odyssey.
This is the documented proof showing '05 RL pistons are perfect fit for large CL-S/TL-S 36mm intake valves when installing 3.2L heads
on 3.5L block whereas '02-04 Odyssey pistons required metal removal to increase valve pockets to fit.
Let's just stick to Odyssey
BTW, $50 each '05 RL piston set can be purchased from acuraautomotiveparts.org
So those who want J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on J35A1 ('01 Odyssey) complete block the best bet is '05 RL pistons otherwise get '02-'04
Odyssey pistons and have machine shop to clear the valve "pockets"
Or another option is '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S)block. But you need Odyssey '01-03 crankshaft and rods
as indicated on the page 1 (see J35A1/J32A2 listing) + '05 RL pistons
Here are the updated options :
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl.
heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl.
heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL
pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves
thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost
up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle,
otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen.
AV6.
here is more to chew on
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A*/J30A1
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power
J35A*/J32A2
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage:
Need RL pistons.
UPDATE (6/23/2005)
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01 or '02 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons
(new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake)
valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be
used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you,
you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00 $367.32
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00 $79.48 each
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to
increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher
redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey '01, '02 block is the best bet.
The best bet is to have '01 Odyssey block and swap in '05 RL pistons. Not sure about '01-02 MDX block this should
be checked. '03-04 MDX crankshaft which is the same part as '05 RL
will not work.
Bottom line, I checked crank, rods cannot be used from either '03-04 MDX or '05 RL on Odyssey block - they won't
work. Only 'RL pistons/rings are good.
Piston Part#
13010-RJA-000, 2005 RL, $50.47, 36mm/30mm (intake/exhaust valves)
13010-PGK-A01, 2002-2004 Odyssey, $29.89, 30mm/30mm
and Accord V6 valves are 30mm/30mm.
And since MDX piston is exactly the same as Odyssey, let's stick to Odyssey.
This is the documented proof showing '05 RL pistons are perfect fit for large CL-S/TL-S 36mm intake valves when installing 3.2L heads
on 3.5L block whereas '02-04 Odyssey pistons required metal removal to increase valve pockets to fit.
Let's just stick to Odyssey
BTW, $50 each '05 RL piston set can be purchased from acuraautomotiveparts.org
So those who want J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on J35A1 ('01 Odyssey) complete block the best bet is '05 RL pistons otherwise get '02-'04
Odyssey pistons and have machine shop to clear the valve "pockets"
Or another option is '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S)block. But you need Odyssey '01-03 crankshaft and rods
as indicated on the page 1 (see J35A1/J32A2 listing) + '05 RL pistons
Here are the updated options :
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl.
heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl.
heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL
pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves
thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost
up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle,
otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen.
AV6.
04-11-2008, 09:09 AM
#12
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by 00laguna
thanks for the help. i am picking up another 00 tl with very high milage for cheap! so i am going to do the swap in that one and keep my other tl the way it is still like new! i was wondering if i just took the stock engine apart could i just stuff it with rl pistons and oddessy rods etc? and if i swapped the internals what ecu would i run it on? only kind of swaps ive done before were on the older turbo dodges they used common block after 89, so the difference from there 2.2 to 2.5L 4cyl was the crank rods and pistons. i wonder can i do that with stock tl motor think its j32a1 , or is it why bother the type s block stronger? i will look into that scrap yard, i am in ottawa. i can wait this car will make the ultimate sleeper!
all you have to do is the cranks, rods, pistons.
All will bolt-on.
Your stock ECU will run it.
Your tranny won't last long though.
04-11-2008, 09:29 AM
#13
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by InspireTL
Similar to the old turbo dodges,
all you have to do is the cranks, rods, pistons.
All will bolt-on.
Your stock ECU will run it.
all you have to do is the cranks, rods, pistons.
All will bolt-on.
Your stock ECU will run it.
04-12-2008, 01:42 PM
#15
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in the link it says you can supercharge (7psi) with the oddessy crankshaft and rl pistons. anyone have any info about how much psi you could safely run with a turbo?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
04-12-2008, 01:58 PM
#16
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iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by ace3693
in the link it says you can supercharge (7psi) with the oddessy crankshaft and rl pistons. anyone have any info about how much psi you could safely run with a turbo?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
Some people have done 10 psi.
Any higher then you should start looking into building the engine to handle more power.
If you want to do a turbo setup,
Keep the Odyssey pistons 10:0:1 or CL-S pistons 10:5:1
top that off with Total seal rings.
Answer to your question about cams.
Here are the specs:
intake (pri), (mid), (sec), exhaust
J32A1: 34.737, 36.445, 34.919, 36.326
J32A2: 34.737, 36.445, 34.919, 36.389
Hope that helps.
04-12-2008, 05:33 PM
#18
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ace3693
i thought i read on here somewhere that the only difference between the tl-p and type s was the intake manifold? camshafts too then, anything else?
04-13-2008, 12:07 PM
#19
Originally Posted by ace3693
in the link it says you can supercharge (7psi) with the oddessy crankshaft and rl pistons. anyone have any info about how much psi you could safely run with a turbo?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
also, what is different about the cl-s camshafts compared to a tl-p?
04-29-2008, 02:04 AM
#20
-Arsenic-
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but et me get this straight. To do the high comp. 3.5, I need-
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
04-29-2008, 07:42 AM
#21
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iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by 02type-s
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but et me get this straight. To do the high comp. 3.5, I need-
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
My buddy did this swap to his accord and kept the auto tranny...it's starting to slip after 3 months with the motor in. Start looking to do the 6 speed all at once.
Hope that helps.
04-29-2008, 09:38 AM
#22
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 02type-s
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but et me get this straight. To do the high comp. 3.5, I need-
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
-02-04 odyssey rods
-02-04 odyssey crankshaft
-05 RL pistons w/rings
-have block honed out .25 for larger RL pistons
Am I missing anything? And how long would my auto tranny last on this, or would it be ok?
Trans, that is unknown. our trans dont fail from HP. its the shifting thru 3rd that causes it.
05-02-2008, 01:56 PM
#24
Senior Moderator
Yes, yes.
05-02-2008, 11:27 PM
#25
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by 02type-s
Stupid question, but same oil weight and fuel octane? I just want to know everything b4 I start buying parts.
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