Turboara

Similar to what Nissan did, stuff a big V6 motor from a larger car into a relatively light sports car?

Just thinking out loud here, Acura should take the 260hp V6 from the TL-S (its already used by other honda products), tweek it a bit to 280 - 300 hp, make it RWD and then stuff it an RSX type car. Isn't that similar to the 350Z with the G35 engine? That would be a kick - a$$ sports car, of course would prbably cut into profits from the CL-S, RSX-S and NSX.

Ray_Khan

The RSX would have terrible balance with the 3.2 under the hood. I'd rather see something more exotic like the rumored AWD hyrbrid electric motor driving the front wheels and 3.2 liter driving the rear wheels in a honda product. Or a more agressive S2000 with a slighly larger displacemnt engine, factory turbo setup and more agressive suspension.

is300eater

What about those "Rally" circuits? Why doesn't Honda participate in those races? I think there's a big market in high performance AWD "supted up" 4 bangers. Don't cha think? Now that Mitsubishi's EVO VIII's coming to the states... I bet Honda's NOT far behind. If not, they should. Honestly, If was a little younger... I would probably have a WRX instead of a TL-S. I really like them.

Eternal TL2k3

actually the rsx Type R (in japan) is to be used to target those cars from what i hear

Ray_Khan

too bad Ford won't bring over it's escort cosworth.

As for Honda, they arealy want to mass produce turbo cars. I doubt they are going to jump into the turbo, 4 cyl, AWD market anytime soon...to bad. I can tell you from experience a turbo AWD car is nice.

adam

The RSX is still called the Integra in Japan (and europe), and it won't even come close to competing with the Evolution.

ShaguraTL

Honda has no experience with turbos. Even if they licensed out for someone else's turbo, there would still be quirks to work out for the first few years. Honda does have experience with AWD but it's a very poorly designed system comparative to others on the market. What I'm trying to get at is that I don't think Honda will ever compete in rally. They don't have a good chasis for it yet and they need to spend a LOT of R&D on turbo 2.0 liters with a good AWD and tranny if they want to rally. If they were to compete, it'd be 3 years at least before they can come up with something that could be entered. Another 2 years or so on top of that before it's a solid design to be competitive.

Las Vegas TLS

You need to go to Japan. Have you ever heard of the "City" cars.
Hondas with small 4 cylinder engines and turbos. They are everywhere you look. They use the small engines for tax reasons, larger engines are more expensive to register. Honda even makes turbo motocycles.

Las Vegas TLS

I think Honda's philosophy has always been to tweek natually aspired engines to produce better performance without sacrificing reliability. Turbos usually don't last the life of the engine. They are also expensive to repair/replace when they do fail.
I remember reading that Motor Trend article about the million mile Accord, amazing! Try getting more than 125k out of a turbo.
Hondas problem isn't horse power it is vehicle weight. People are just demanding quieter, larger, and more solid cars. Look at the Lotus Elise, that is where the S2000 should be heading.

Edward'TLS

Wrong !! Honda has poured hundreds of millions dollars on turbo technology since the 90's era. The formidable 1.5L turbo Formula 1 engines and the 2.85L turbo CART engines enabled race teams like Williams , Target Chip Ganassi, Team Penske, Team Green to achieve consecutive world drivers and constructor championships.

In production Honda cars, apart from the City turbo, Honda had put a variable geometry turbo in the final year of the first generation domestic Legend in Japan. Car buyers didn't like it and Honda dropped this engine option the following year.

Edward'TLS

Similarly speaking, Honda/Acura has participate in the WCCA GT and touring events with the NSX and the Interga, and almost every year brought home the manufacturer's championship. Why don't those WRX and EVO VIII and Focus (European rally version) participate in those events ?

Rally cars and street race cars are just not in the same class.

ShaguraTL

I was afraid I'd be wrong when I made that comment on Honda not having turbo experience. I stand corrected then. As far as Honda using turbos in F1 and Cart, I don't consider that very applicable as that equipment never makes it to production cars. As much as companies say their "race proven" etc. experience carries over into their production cars, it really doesn't that much. Those vehicles are designed for a completely different purpose. 15,000 rpm and higher race engines with race suspension that has no use on the street as I have yet to drive a street in the city that's in as good of condition as a race track.

I don't know much at all about Honda's motorcycles. Some come with turbos stock? Nice.

Thanks for the corrections. I learn something new every day.

T Ho

I've been wanting to drop a J32A2 into an S2000 for a while. I think I could do it. If someone wants to buy all the stuff (including the S2000), I'll do the work for them. It'll look and run factory when I'm finished.

Todd

1SICKLEX

Another wish list. Let me tell you, if I want a V-12, I gotta shop Benz or BMW. The "Why doesn't Lexus melt 2 V-6s together and add AWD for $60k" sounds stupid.

Appreciate each auto company for it's strengths, if the weaknesses are glaring LEAVE.

Good day.Do U know how much $$$$$$$$$$$$ this would cost Honda, not to mention go totally against their thinking.

VQ35DE

I've spent several years driving and racing in DSM turbos and they are nice and very quick. BUT, after driving the RSX-S I can tell you that none of them are the true driver's car that the RSX is.

Knowing Honda, push come to shove they'll engineer a 2.0+ liter n/a 4cylinder motor that'll produce 260hp in order to compete with the likes of the EVO and WRX. (The F20 comes really close to that already.) No manufacturer builds high performance 4 cylinder motors like Honda.

Peace.

Ray_Khan

let me add a litlte more to the flaming Honda is actually quite crafy in turbo systems as the found a way to beat the 1.67 bar limit of the cart rules without getting caught...for a while.

The reason honda probably stays out fo the turbo car market is that people associate honda with reliability and turbo cars tend to need much more maintenence as they are under more stress. So people will see "needing more maintenence" as less reliable.

Most turbo engines on the market have had some issues in their first few generations...I doubt honda wants that type of reputation.

that is debatable....some racing series actually have to use many stock components in the car. F1 and Cart aren't really in this catagory, but there are many other honda products which are in this catagory. Vtec was used in racing long before it became so popular in street cars. There really is some cool stuff coming to manufacturers through race teams. Another good exaple of a great technology that comes from a race team is Audi's direct injection...the Audi R8's have been dominating the Le Mans series for the last 3 years. Have a performance car that is not only faster, butm ore effiecient than the rest of the field is a HUGE benefit. Direct injection technology is starting to find it's way into the Audi lineup. Audi's quattro is also another technology that started in racing.

Edward'TLS

In fact, a lot of the production car technologies come from the high profile and high spending open wheel racings, in particularly from F1 and CART, as well as motorbike racings such as FIA MotoGP and Superbike.

Honda, for example, applied technologies such as double wishbone suspension, programmed fuel injection , overhead camshaft, multi-valve technology, dual length intake runners, moly coated pistons, titanium connect rods, variable valve timing, traction control, etc., etc., in many of its production cars. All these technologies were originated from nothing but racings.

Racings are also excellent test beds for testing the reliability of a new technology.

Edward'TLS

As a side note, the TRUE semi-automatic gear box used years ago in selected Ferrari's and now as an option in BMW 3-series is a direct adaption from the Ferrari and Williams-BMW F1 race cars. But don't confuse them with our $hitty auto gear box. Those TRUE semi-auto will actually do match-rev downshift, just like a manual transmission, in a tiny fraction of a second.

ShaguraTL

Yes, Mitsubishi already has Direct Injection in at least one of their cars that's sold in Japan only. I forgot which car it was though. Last I heard, it was making it's way into the rest of Mitsubushi's line up.

On a side note, I wasn't trying to start a flame. I do know there are some technologies that make it's way from the race track to the production market. I was just saying that not *that* much does. To quote myself:
"As much as companies say their "race proven" etc. experience carries over into their production cars, it really doesn't that much."

I was hoping peoule would notice the "that much" part. Thus implying that some does but not a lot.

At any rate... On with the discussions. I'm quite interested in hearing from another point of view.

Ray_Khan

I hear ya dude....it's a lot of little things that come down from racing. It's not always the big things that actually sell the car though.



I agree with that...the RSX is a more soulful car than a DSM. DSM's are known more for drag raicng that being all around great cars. And I have no doubts tha Honda can squeeze plenty more torqueless powe from a NA 2 liter. People who own 150 hp miata love them becuase they are full of soul. A coworker of mine who has a miata he picked up for $800 said he's never enjoyed a car so much. And he's owned a few big hp cars. But times are changing and people want it all now. I think the AWD turbo car is really coming on. BMW is going to be offerinng some choices soon in that market. Subaru will have no only the Sti impreza at 300 hp, but the Sti legacy wagon at 350 hp. Volvo is going after the S4 with it's S60R turbo AWD offereing. Mitsubishi saw that people wanted the 2.0 liter turbo and brought over the EVO....the evo is not only powerful and moddable, but it is s soulful car that is multi talented and full of cool and usefull innovation:water misting of the intercooler, switchable bias on the center diff etc. Audi has it's 2.7T and 1.8T engines that have been popular.

I'm not saying Acura/Honda needs a turbo engine. I think the Nissan Z is a gopod benchmark for a cool sporty car witha a nice V-6. I do think Honda needs to raise the bar a bit with the RSX...even a 220 hp Type R isn't going to cut it. It's not all about hp, but hp counts.

paul_huryk

I don't think it would be wise for Honda to make a Car to compete directly with the Z/Infiniti cars, the market is too small for two players with similar cars. I am refering to a largish coupe with a 3.5L 6 cylinder and RWD.

What Honda could do is trump Nissan by making a slightly smaller, more capable car for a setp up in pricepoint. Something like a 4L V8 with 350hp or something, maybe a detuned engine going into the next NSX (or a slightly smaller size) with RWD. Make the car 3300lbs and throw 350hp into it and you have Corvette performance and Honda reputation/reliability. Kinda like a lower price version of the old Lexus SC400, just smaller and more powerful. You don't neccessarily need to load it up with every option under the sun either - just the ones that people would ***** about if not included. Make it about $40K and you have a winner. It would make the Z obsolete in about 3 seconds and make Lexus $hit in their drawers. Then you take it racing and mop up and really stick it to them.

A 4 door version would be a good idea also.

Las Vegas TLS

I seems like Honda for the past few years has been creating specialty cars like the NSX, S2000 and even the Element that just came out. They release them in limited quanities to create hype. People go in to see the new cars and end up walking out with a Civic. I looked at the Z350 and they wanted $3k over the price for "adjusted market value".
My whole point is, I would not be suprised if Honda released a limited production AWD hybrid sports car with 350 HP.

acurasouthfl

That is precisely why I choose to go with the infiniti G35 coupe. It drives and handles beautifully.

diamond graphite/willow/5AT/premium/sport/nav

ShaguraTL

I went to go test drive a G35 coupe and damn that's a nice car. The sqeezed out a load of power out of a 3.5 V6. Nissan seems to have found some good engineers.

is300eater

Ya know? I think, I actually, like the Z350 better... I think it looks better anyway, I mean... I know there's no back seats, but I bet those back seats in the G35 coupe aren't very confy anyway. Like, who's going to fit back there? Then, again, I haven't looked at one up close, so I might be wrong... but I still like the Z350 better.