Vibration During Braking
12-02-2009, 11:32 AM
#41
you still havnt bled the brakes correctly and are trying other things like moving tires around? You really need to do that before blaming the calipers-could be a massive air pocket somewhere- the uneven pressure would cause problems
unless there is a problem with the caliper - like its sticking, then its not the issue of legend vs Tl part
unless there is a problem with the caliper - like its sticking, then its not the issue of legend vs Tl part
12-02-2009, 11:33 AM
#42
also -were the rotors removed and inspected inside for contact with anything?
those end links are important and which bushings? control arm bushings?
that would make it shake too but Im sticking with bleed them before doing other work
those end links are important and which bushings? control arm bushings?
that would make it shake too but Im sticking with bleed them before doing other work
12-23-2009, 09:49 AM
#43
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Alright. Alright. I BLEEPING fixed it!
Let me start by apologizing for seemingly abandoning this thread for the past few weeks. Once Thanksgiving hit- between my day job, my night job and holiday / family obligations I A) did not have the time to touch the car, and B) left the car with a trusted mechanic for 2 weeks (the same guy who has searched unsucessfully for the cause of this problem a few times now).
Just to recap- the symptoms that were presenting themselves were multi-faceted:
1) vibration in the steering wheel and brake pedal only while braking.
2) an associated or unassociated clunking noise while the
vibration is occuring.
3) a clunk / squeak sequence coming from the front while
going over bumps.
We went through the front end of the car and found the following items needing attention:
Completely Broken rear trans mount
Destroyed swaybar bushings
Loose/worn Swaybar end links
Tired front struts (which I already knew about and had the
parts on hand, and had assumed was the cause of the
clunking all along)
Worn out upper strut mounts/bushings
Warped front rotors
Incorrect pads (I mistakenly used the Legend pads in the
Legend calipers with the TL brackets.
Loose drivers side caliper bracket (the threads came out of the
upper bolt hole. I had to use a larger bolt & a helicoil.
We did not do anything to the car that it did not need (like replacing A-arm / control arm / thrust bushings that appeared fine, but would be prime suspects in a problem like this)
Replacing all of the above parts PLUS doing a brake bleed (clockwise from the drivers side front) and a tire rotation resulted in the quieting of the clunks and squeaks in the front end, but did nothing to reduce the vibration while braking.
My mechanic had the car for the past week, and called me yesterday to tell me he figured it out- it was the REAR BRAKES.
Let me start by apologizing for seemingly abandoning this thread for the past few weeks. Once Thanksgiving hit- between my day job, my night job and holiday / family obligations I A) did not have the time to touch the car, and B) left the car with a trusted mechanic for 2 weeks (the same guy who has searched unsucessfully for the cause of this problem a few times now).
Just to recap- the symptoms that were presenting themselves were multi-faceted:
1) vibration in the steering wheel and brake pedal only while braking.
2) an associated or unassociated clunking noise while the
vibration is occuring.
3) a clunk / squeak sequence coming from the front while
going over bumps.
We went through the front end of the car and found the following items needing attention:
Completely Broken rear trans mount
Destroyed swaybar bushings
Loose/worn Swaybar end links
Tired front struts (which I already knew about and had the
parts on hand, and had assumed was the cause of the
clunking all along)
Worn out upper strut mounts/bushings
Warped front rotors
Incorrect pads (I mistakenly used the Legend pads in the
Legend calipers with the TL brackets.
Loose drivers side caliper bracket (the threads came out of the
upper bolt hole. I had to use a larger bolt & a helicoil.
We did not do anything to the car that it did not need (like replacing A-arm / control arm / thrust bushings that appeared fine, but would be prime suspects in a problem like this)
Replacing all of the above parts PLUS doing a brake bleed (clockwise from the drivers side front) and a tire rotation resulted in the quieting of the clunks and squeaks in the front end, but did nothing to reduce the vibration while braking.
My mechanic had the car for the past week, and called me yesterday to tell me he figured it out- it was the REAR BRAKES.
12-23-2009, 10:17 AM
#44
I have seen on TL rear brakes:
many makers are using a pad backing plate made for the RL which has 3 raised tabs on the back- one holds the wear sensor bar and one at opposite end, PLUS it has one in the top center that CANT be there on a TL
IF your pad has that 3rd tab its not going to fit right- it cocks the pad angle and only has contact on 1/2 the pad surface and rotor face during use.
Look at the inner side of rear rotors for finish- is it all smooth and clean all the way across or half the width is rusty and other half clean from being used?
If rusty- remove pads and grind off 3rd tab- problem solved
Found this on several makers including hawk- who has been using this same backing plate for years!! You wont know unless you examine the rotors
It WILL cause a vibration as the brake is not working right
ALL aftermarket rear pads for the TL should be inspected for this 3rd tab
many makers are using a pad backing plate made for the RL which has 3 raised tabs on the back- one holds the wear sensor bar and one at opposite end, PLUS it has one in the top center that CANT be there on a TL
IF your pad has that 3rd tab its not going to fit right- it cocks the pad angle and only has contact on 1/2 the pad surface and rotor face during use.
Look at the inner side of rear rotors for finish- is it all smooth and clean all the way across or half the width is rusty and other half clean from being used?
If rusty- remove pads and grind off 3rd tab- problem solved
Found this on several makers including hawk- who has been using this same backing plate for years!! You wont know unless you examine the rotors
It WILL cause a vibration as the brake is not working right
ALL aftermarket rear pads for the TL should be inspected for this 3rd tab
12-23-2009, 10:19 AM
#45
how many miles do you have that all the front end parts wore out?
12-23-2009, 10:27 AM
#46
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Oops- I pressed send on accident- I wasn't done yet.
OK- my mechanic had the car for the past week, and went to the local Acura dealership (a friend of his works there) and he let him drive the car, and said- "tell me what you think". My mechanic didn't tell him what the problem was, but after touching the brakes one time he said- "simple- front rotors".
My mechanic told him that we've replaced them several times in the past month, and that that is not the problem. He mentioned also that I am using Legend 2 pot calipers, and that they seem to be working perfectly (but he suggested that we swap the stock units back in just to eliminate that from suspicion- which by that point I already did.)
Not knowing what else to try- my mechanic took the rear rotors and pads off and replaced them, and viola- perfect. You can brake from 100 mph and it feels like you are sitting still. He says that he's literally worked on tens of thousands of cars- the majority in worse condition than mine (which, although it has 180,000 miles, is in really in very nice shape) and he's never seen rear brakes cause such a problem. For the record, I do a ton of preventive maintenance, am dilligent with checking fluid levels, tire pressures and such, so the car is not neglected at all. In fact- I replaced the rear calipers and pads on my lift in my garage at home in June (I have a 4-post lift that I use to store a couple of cars I am working on, and to do my own work on the side). The rotors looked fine to me then, and checked out fine using a caliper to measure their thickness so I did not replace them. They did not exibit any problems back in June, but by September they started making the car vibrate. I wish I had replaced them when I replaced the calipers and pads. Lesson learned.
They were the culprit. So let me go on the record as saying that without a doubt, bad rear pads and rotors will cause the same problems as bad front pads and rotors. It does not sound like it would, but believe me- it can (and did in my case).
I want to thank everyone who took the time to try to help me.
01tl4tl: you took a lot of interest in my problem and spent a lot of time giving me advice and guidance- all of it pretty solid- so thank you.
TLin401, and totaledTL- same thing- thanks SO much for your time and efforts. I investigated every one of your suggestions. Even though we ended up spending a lot more time on the car than we wanted or needed to we did find a lot of other things that the car needed, so it all turned out to be worthwhile.
Happy Holidays everyone, and thank you again!
OK- my mechanic had the car for the past week, and went to the local Acura dealership (a friend of his works there) and he let him drive the car, and said- "tell me what you think". My mechanic didn't tell him what the problem was, but after touching the brakes one time he said- "simple- front rotors".
My mechanic told him that we've replaced them several times in the past month, and that that is not the problem. He mentioned also that I am using Legend 2 pot calipers, and that they seem to be working perfectly (but he suggested that we swap the stock units back in just to eliminate that from suspicion- which by that point I already did.)
Not knowing what else to try- my mechanic took the rear rotors and pads off and replaced them, and viola- perfect. You can brake from 100 mph and it feels like you are sitting still. He says that he's literally worked on tens of thousands of cars- the majority in worse condition than mine (which, although it has 180,000 miles, is in really in very nice shape) and he's never seen rear brakes cause such a problem. For the record, I do a ton of preventive maintenance, am dilligent with checking fluid levels, tire pressures and such, so the car is not neglected at all. In fact- I replaced the rear calipers and pads on my lift in my garage at home in June (I have a 4-post lift that I use to store a couple of cars I am working on, and to do my own work on the side). The rotors looked fine to me then, and checked out fine using a caliper to measure their thickness so I did not replace them. They did not exibit any problems back in June, but by September they started making the car vibrate. I wish I had replaced them when I replaced the calipers and pads. Lesson learned.
They were the culprit. So let me go on the record as saying that without a doubt, bad rear pads and rotors will cause the same problems as bad front pads and rotors. It does not sound like it would, but believe me- it can (and did in my case).
I want to thank everyone who took the time to try to help me.
01tl4tl: you took a lot of interest in my problem and spent a lot of time giving me advice and guidance- all of it pretty solid- so thank you.
TLin401, and totaledTL- same thing- thanks SO much for your time and efforts. I investigated every one of your suggestions. Even though we ended up spending a lot more time on the car than we wanted or needed to we did find a lot of other things that the car needed, so it all turned out to be worthwhile.
Happy Holidays everyone, and thank you again!
12-23-2009, 06:27 PM
#48
what about the middle `3rd tab issue` on the rear pads- was that invovled?
I like solving mystery complaints!
I like solving mystery complaints!
12-23-2009, 06:28 PM
#49
its a good reminder to go back to the last work done on the car when a new problem arises,,,
example: worked on rear brakes- months go by and brakes shake,,odd as it may seem go look at the rear brakes~
and this car had every front suspension/ steering part worn out too! what do you do- drive that thing on the Moon?
example: worked on rear brakes- months go by and brakes shake,,odd as it may seem go look at the rear brakes~
and this car had every front suspension/ steering part worn out too! what do you do- drive that thing on the Moon?
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