Valves adjustment question.
07-07-2008, 07:16 PM
#121
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
when a valve is damaged from detonation or similar low fuel grade issues-
a cylinder leak- down test will reveal more info- use that with a compression test to determine how bad the problem really is
If you have a type S motor with its higher 11-1 compresssion----there could be bad news awaiting you on further inspection
a cylinder leak- down test will reveal more info- use that with a compression test to determine how bad the problem really is
If you have a type S motor with its higher 11-1 compresssion----there could be bad news awaiting you on further inspection
Kris, I'd be thinking it could be likely if my car wasn't uber clean. Both inside and out.
07-07-2008, 07:24 PM
#122
Three Wheelin'
I respect all of your opinions. I have read many things contrary to this 87 is bad for motors, from better, higher compression motor makers then honda/acura.
07-07-2008, 08:03 PM
#123
rob- end the mystery!!!- get a real compression test done wet and dry, and a cylinder leakdown test if one or more are way low numbers in comparison to each other
Kris and I are trying to break the news to you gently about whats MAY be wrong with your car. Thats why the extra test before tearing into it for no reason
If it were a bad valve adjustment- you would have heard it with a day or 2 of the service- not months and miles down the road it suddenly appears!
The extra test now will tell the truth of internals condition
Kris and I are trying to break the news to you gently about whats MAY be wrong with your car. Thats why the extra test before tearing into it for no reason
If it were a bad valve adjustment- you would have heard it with a day or 2 of the service- not months and miles down the road it suddenly appears!
The extra test now will tell the truth of internals condition
07-07-2008, 08:10 PM
#124
ONLY info from handa/acura owners and techs matter in this issue!!!
Your buudy with a chevy has no standing in discussions of TL engine operation and what gas is required- IF they have done teardowns on TL motors run on each octane- then the have facts not opinions
We offer personal experience in the exact car we are talking about- thats not just opinion- its experience---let me guess- your guy doesnt believe in seafoam or engine cleaning in general
Rob- just because you foamed then engine now so its clean- doesnt mean there is not existing damage- clean only goes so far- it makes it run better, but is not a cure to damaged valves
Apples to cold cereal comparisons dont count!
Porsche has different computers than us, not to mention very different engines!- to run on the various gas you find in europe on a normal hi speed day trip- you may go thru several countries in just 1 day- with differing gas quality- octane and standards along the way.
Get the extra test run and report back - we just want you to do the job once with good results- not get in there and start a new thread- I adjusted everything to spec, but it still makes a bad noise!!!
Your buudy with a chevy has no standing in discussions of TL engine operation and what gas is required- IF they have done teardowns on TL motors run on each octane- then the have facts not opinions
We offer personal experience in the exact car we are talking about- thats not just opinion- its experience---let me guess- your guy doesnt believe in seafoam or engine cleaning in general
Rob- just because you foamed then engine now so its clean- doesnt mean there is not existing damage- clean only goes so far- it makes it run better, but is not a cure to damaged valves
Apples to cold cereal comparisons dont count!
Porsche has different computers than us, not to mention very different engines!- to run on the various gas you find in europe on a normal hi speed day trip- you may go thru several countries in just 1 day- with differing gas quality- octane and standards along the way.
Get the extra test run and report back - we just want you to do the job once with good results- not get in there and start a new thread- I adjusted everything to spec, but it still makes a bad noise!!!
07-07-2008, 09:04 PM
#125
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by rob-2
Kris, I'd be thinking it could be likely if my car wasn't uber clean. Both inside and out.
Originally Posted by rob-2
What compressions are the porsche's running? As porsche germany states all their cars can run on different grades of gas. As in many places they sell their cars, only regular is available.
.
.
Originally Posted by rob-2
I respect all of your opinions. I have read many things contrary to this 87 is bad for motors, from better, higher compression motor makers then honda/acura.
07-08-2008, 09:21 AM
#126
i seafoamed the old bat yesterdayw hen i got her back. one can in the tank at 1/4 to clean the injectors REAL good, 1 can in the crank, and did a seafoam through the intake. took it for a nice 100 mile drive around 285 and god backa nd changed my oil...the clicking is gone.
i do have to say it was a bit weird after i did the seafoam through the intake....the car litterally hesitated when i hit vtec for the first time and it was like it didnt want to rev-up, it blew a TON of smoke out and all was fine after that.
only blew smoke the first two times i hit vtec after that.
now my engine purrs, im still interested in you doing that compression test for us though
i do have to say it was a bit weird after i did the seafoam through the intake....the car litterally hesitated when i hit vtec for the first time and it was like it didnt want to rev-up, it blew a TON of smoke out and all was fine after that.
only blew smoke the first two times i hit vtec after that.
now my engine purrs, im still interested in you doing that compression test for us though
07-08-2008, 01:16 PM
#127
Three Wheelin'
Kris, really not looking to pick a fight here, the article I read quoting porsche, stated they rate all their cars to run on premium, however in not every region of the world they sell their cars at is premium fuel available - but it's still rated as such. So all their vehicles are able to take different grades of gas or any blend in between. Found the article
Lewis Gibbs knows fuel better then we do.
Bold is important here
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...emiumgas_x.htm
I'm just a cynical marketer, but I don't buy the hype about 91. It appears from this well sourced article that the hype is just that, alot of hot air about 91. If a porsche motor putting out motor hp per liter and at higher compressions can take regular. Our little old acura motors getting 11:1 and a week hp per liter can handle it. I guess this article would have silenced ALL the 91 fans if they had quoted a honda rep. I wish they had. Hopefully this clears up all the misinformation around 91 vs 87.
Phee - very cool. I thought seafoam would work for me, but it's done nothing noticable in the long run. Granted everything is cleaner now, but that doesn't really matter if I still have this noise.
Well anyhow, I'm counting the days down until I do the valve adjustment. My mechanic has looked at it and believes it to be a valve adjustment issue. If we thought valve damage we'd do a compression test. When we open up the motor we'll inspect the valves the best we can (not I since I am not knowledge in such things) and if after valve adjustment there is no change I will consider my options. Including just driving it until I pick up another car.
All Porsche engines are designed for premium, too, but it's not available everywhere. "Our cars must be able to drive all over the world, and so we are able to run on regular," says Jakob Neusser, director of powertrain development at Porsche's research and development center in Weissach, Germany. "You don't have to feel that a mechanical problem or anything else will happen" using regular gas, even in the highest-performance, regular-production Porsches.
The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors.
"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas.
"I would stop driving rather than use a lower grade of gasoline," says Andrew Martschenko of Boston, who drives a 2003 Nissan Maxima. Nissan says premium is "recommended" for that engine — automaker code for regular is OK, but you'll only get the advertised power on premium.
I'm just a cynical marketer, but I don't buy the hype about 91. It appears from this well sourced article that the hype is just that, alot of hot air about 91. If a porsche motor putting out motor hp per liter and at higher compressions can take regular. Our little old acura motors getting 11:1 and a week hp per liter can handle it. I guess this article would have silenced ALL the 91 fans if they had quoted a honda rep. I wish they had. Hopefully this clears up all the misinformation around 91 vs 87.
Phee - very cool. I thought seafoam would work for me, but it's done nothing noticable in the long run. Granted everything is cleaner now, but that doesn't really matter if I still have this noise.
Well anyhow, I'm counting the days down until I do the valve adjustment. My mechanic has looked at it and believes it to be a valve adjustment issue. If we thought valve damage we'd do a compression test. When we open up the motor we'll inspect the valves the best we can (not I since I am not knowledge in such things) and if after valve adjustment there is no change I will consider my options. Including just driving it until I pick up another car.
07-08-2008, 01:19 PM
#128
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by rob-2
Kris, really not looking to pick a fight here, the article I read quoting porsche, stated they rate all their cars to run on premium, however in not every region of the world they sell their cars at is premium fuel available - but it's still rated as such. So all their vehicles are able to take different grades of gas or any blend in between. Found the article
How many here understand how and what octane and its rating does? And how it effects the motor. (and dont quick go google or wiki for an answer, use it to learn)
07-08-2008, 01:29 PM
#129
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Yea and you quoted pretty much what i said. It "CAN" be used but it wont run optimally!! Our cars (and i) NEVER said you couldnt , just that you shouldnt and that it wouldnt run optimally.
How many here understand how and what octane and its rating does? And how it effects the motor. (and dont quick go google or wiki for an answer, use it to learn)
How many here understand how and what octane and its rating does? And how it effects the motor. (and dont quick go google or wiki for an answer, use it to learn)
As the german state, no damage will come from it. Yet such statements have been thrown around here, not by you but gone unchallenged.
07-08-2008, 05:26 PM
#130
I am going to laugh my azzz off when you get the valve covers off-
you cant tell squat off the outer side of the valves from there!!- so lets say its adjusted perfect?
what are you going to look at next?
You had huge grunge in engine based on ~heavy feeling oil filter~ after a 100 mile drive with foam in the oil. Maybe there is way more grunge in there still - blocking an oiler to a valve?
Lets suppose your beloved 87 octane has indeed `burned` a valve- thats not something you fix from outside either
Your guy has given a listen--- but NO testing to see wheres the problem
I think you need another tech to run the actual test- 100 bucks now vesus-- halfway thru a saturday you find out you're screwed----
but thats just the opinion of someone who ran a shop and saw cars with horrible sludge in the engine with noises- and pulled the valve cover then intake manifold to find it got worse the farther we looked!!!
IN the usa, all gas starts as 87- then additives are blended in at the final stage of production along with cleaners and stuff into the transporter truck and to the gas stations.
The add ins delay combustion- making it higher octane rated for hi compression engines
Since out engines do NOT say- preferred- they say MINIMUM, thats a big differance!!!!!!
I wonder what the porsche manual says on gas exactly?
even though its not a tl, and totally unlike our engines
you cant tell squat off the outer side of the valves from there!!- so lets say its adjusted perfect?
what are you going to look at next?
You had huge grunge in engine based on ~heavy feeling oil filter~ after a 100 mile drive with foam in the oil. Maybe there is way more grunge in there still - blocking an oiler to a valve?
Lets suppose your beloved 87 octane has indeed `burned` a valve- thats not something you fix from outside either
Your guy has given a listen--- but NO testing to see wheres the problem
I think you need another tech to run the actual test- 100 bucks now vesus-- halfway thru a saturday you find out you're screwed----
but thats just the opinion of someone who ran a shop and saw cars with horrible sludge in the engine with noises- and pulled the valve cover then intake manifold to find it got worse the farther we looked!!!
IN the usa, all gas starts as 87- then additives are blended in at the final stage of production along with cleaners and stuff into the transporter truck and to the gas stations.
The add ins delay combustion- making it higher octane rated for hi compression engines
Since out engines do NOT say- preferred- they say MINIMUM, thats a big differance!!!!!!
I wonder what the porsche manual says on gas exactly?
even though its not a tl, and totally unlike our engines
07-08-2008, 06:18 PM
#131
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
I am going to laugh my azzz off when you get the valve covers off-
you cant tell squat off the outer side of the valves from there!!- so lets say its adjusted perfect?
what are you going to look at next?
You had huge grunge in engine based on ~heavy feeling oil filter~ after a 100 mile drive with foam in the oil. Maybe there is way more grunge in there still - blocking an oiler to a valve?
Lets suppose your beloved 87 octane has indeed `burned` a valve- thats not something you fix from outside either
Your guy has given a listen--- but NO testing to see wheres the problem
I think you need another tech to run the actual test- 100 bucks now vesus-- halfway thru a saturday you find out you're screwed----
but thats just the opinion of someone who ran a shop and saw cars with horrible sludge in the engine with noises- and pulled the valve cover then intake manifold to find it got worse the farther we looked!!!
IN the usa, all gas starts as 87- then additives are blended in at the final stage of production along with cleaners and stuff into the transporter truck and to the gas stations.
The add ins delay combustion- making it higher octane rated for hi compression engines
Since out engines do NOT say- preferred- they say MINIMUM, thats a big differance!!!!!!
I wonder what the porsche manual says on gas exactly?
even though its not a tl, and totally unlike our engines
you cant tell squat off the outer side of the valves from there!!- so lets say its adjusted perfect?
what are you going to look at next?
You had huge grunge in engine based on ~heavy feeling oil filter~ after a 100 mile drive with foam in the oil. Maybe there is way more grunge in there still - blocking an oiler to a valve?
Lets suppose your beloved 87 octane has indeed `burned` a valve- thats not something you fix from outside either
Your guy has given a listen--- but NO testing to see wheres the problem
I think you need another tech to run the actual test- 100 bucks now vesus-- halfway thru a saturday you find out you're screwed----
but thats just the opinion of someone who ran a shop and saw cars with horrible sludge in the engine with noises- and pulled the valve cover then intake manifold to find it got worse the farther we looked!!!
IN the usa, all gas starts as 87- then additives are blended in at the final stage of production along with cleaners and stuff into the transporter truck and to the gas stations.
The add ins delay combustion- making it higher octane rated for hi compression engines
Since out engines do NOT say- preferred- they say MINIMUM, thats a big differance!!!!!!
I wonder what the porsche manual says on gas exactly?
even though its not a tl, and totally unlike our engines
Scare tactics never work well with me. Stating I'm screwed by inspecting the valves clearances rather discredits the rest of your statement. Screwed implies an irreversible direction that leads to a failure outcome which is not the case. Open inspect, adjust and close. Worse comes to worse there is no improvement.
Let me tell you what's failed so far..
-changing to synthetic $40
-seafoam intake $6x3 = 18
-gas burned while seafoaming intake est $20 x3=$60
-seafoam injectors $6 x 3 = $18
-seafoam crankcase $6
My time, 5 hour - appoximately the time required to do the valve adjustment. So lets put everything into perspective, no one is "screwed".
I'll keep you all posted on my progress.
07-08-2008, 09:30 PM
#132
ok my description of `screwed on a saturday~ is: you open the covers and check the clearances- all the valves are adjusted correctly within spec and thats not the noise~
Now you have a choice- remove the cylinder heads to inspect inside without any prior readings taken, and take for repair/replacement of the head(s) hoping that a piston is not damaged, OR put the car back together with a problem still unresolved.
Based on your tight time schedule- that could be rather difficult to get fixed on a saturday
I am not trying to scare you. rather to educate you-
your insistance that 87 is fine when you may very well have a burned part inside the engine--related to detonation-preignition issues and carbon buildup----
On your list- changing to synthetic was going to fix a bad noise? No
While you have cleaned the rest of the engine with foam well 3 times!--- the engine oil only got 1 treatment- when there could well be an oil flow problem!!!
It needs to be tested and is easy to do
I encourage you to do a few basic test on oil pressure and engine compression then you know going in where things stand.
Thats going to give you a lot more info before the big project is attempted
As one who ran a shop and had to get the techs to test and document everything- not guess whats wrong and then BE wrong about it....
- thats my opinion
You are of course free to do whatever you want, and think I have no clue- its ok~
Now you have a choice- remove the cylinder heads to inspect inside without any prior readings taken, and take for repair/replacement of the head(s) hoping that a piston is not damaged, OR put the car back together with a problem still unresolved.
Based on your tight time schedule- that could be rather difficult to get fixed on a saturday
I am not trying to scare you. rather to educate you-
your insistance that 87 is fine when you may very well have a burned part inside the engine--related to detonation-preignition issues and carbon buildup----
On your list- changing to synthetic was going to fix a bad noise? No
While you have cleaned the rest of the engine with foam well 3 times!--- the engine oil only got 1 treatment- when there could well be an oil flow problem!!!
It needs to be tested and is easy to do
I encourage you to do a few basic test on oil pressure and engine compression then you know going in where things stand.
Thats going to give you a lot more info before the big project is attempted
As one who ran a shop and had to get the techs to test and document everything- not guess whats wrong and then BE wrong about it....
- thats my opinion
You are of course free to do whatever you want, and think I have no clue- its ok~
07-09-2008, 08:49 AM
#133
alright guys, lets take it easy.
all we need are some tests to be done. and rob said he is goign to do them. its all a waiting game now.
im sure some other TL users have this problem but are just watching the thread. and this very well may disprove the 87 octane deal and we can all start saving money
or it will prove that 91 is best and we can all rejoice its really a win-win, so we should be happy rob came to us with it
all we need are some tests to be done. and rob said he is goign to do them. its all a waiting game now.
im sure some other TL users have this problem but are just watching the thread. and this very well may disprove the 87 octane deal and we can all start saving money
or it will prove that 91 is best and we can all rejoice its really a win-win, so we should be happy rob came to us with it
07-09-2008, 11:49 AM
#134
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by phee
alright guys, lets take it easy.
all we need are some tests to be done. and rob said he is goign to do them. its all a waiting game now.
im sure some other TL users have this problem but are just watching the thread. and this very well may disprove the 87 octane deal and we can all start saving money or it will prove that 91 is best and we can all rejoice its really a win-win, so we should be happy rob came to us with it
all we need are some tests to be done. and rob said he is goign to do them. its all a waiting game now.
im sure some other TL users have this problem but are just watching the thread. and this very well may disprove the 87 octane deal and we can all start saving money
or it will prove that 91 is best and we can all rejoice its really a win-win, so we should be happy rob came to us with itAlso stated in the million other threads on octane debate, It works just fine for some and not for others. I have seen more people complain about less power and less mileage with 87 than i have seen say they get the same like rob. Run it and see what you get.
07-09-2008, 12:08 PM
#135
i know the difference in performance https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=experiment
just curious about the sludge and long term effects. i still run 93
just curious about the sludge and long term effects. i still run 93
07-09-2008, 06:03 PM
#136
its back!!!
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07-09-2008, 06:07 PM
#137
Three Wheelin'
Shit phee, you have the same sound as I. Hopefully I can be the one to determine it's cause and make it easier for everyone else.
Tom - it has nothing to do with having 'no clue' no one said that or suggested it. If I'm not careful I'll just rebuild the whole dam motor in the process of getting rid of a noise.
phee, you done your valves recently?
Tom - it has nothing to do with having 'no clue' no one said that or suggested it. If I'm not careful I'll just rebuild the whole dam motor in the process of getting rid of a noise.
phee, you done your valves recently?
07-20-2008, 01:36 AM
#139
Three Wheelin'
We appear to have success. After many hours working on the valves, 5 out of 6 valves were out of spec on the intakes. Exhausts were all within spec. Very disappointing all things considered.
New video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPHHGj_gfKk
In addition to the lack of noise the car feels slightly smoother on acceleration.
Hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to hook up an OBD-II to the car and get some live data back concerning another topic.
New video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPHHGj_gfKk
In addition to the lack of noise the car feels slightly smoother on acceleration.
Hopefully tomorrow I will have a chance to hook up an OBD-II to the car and get some live data back concerning another topic.
07-20-2008, 02:44 AM
#140
were they tight or loose or what
Any before and after measurements?
Any before and after measurements?
07-20-2008, 09:56 AM
#141
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
were they tight or loose or what
Any before and after measurements?
Any before and after measurements?
07-20-2008, 10:32 AM
#143
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by phee
good deal. ill get this done today, can you copy the pages for me?
It's really helpful if you have a second set of hands.
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