systek

well, i finally got my aem cai, and the weather was great, so i called up my friend who has a 2001 CLS, http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...ree=Acura%20CL w/full comptech upgrade done at the factory. i wanted to find out if the cai by itself made a difference against his aem cai + the full comptech treatment.

well, we went for a few runs all over the city, so we wouldnt get caught(alot of illegal street racing goes on here in austin)

i was surprised when after the first run, I BEAT HIM BY A FEW FEET, HIS NOSE WAS AT ABOUT MY REAR DOOR...!!!

i was soooooo surprised, we stopped and he told me that he had the VSA activated....awwwwwwwww, that kinda burst my bubble...

so we try again...and I BEAT HIM AGAIN....!!! this time we both made sure ac was off, both using sport shift, both w/VSA off, but he made an error and hit the rev limiter, which is why I won that race too...

we went to another location and tried again...geeez, let me tell ya, we tried in automatic mode and he beat me by almost a car lenght...although we kept up at about the same position to about half that race...

tried again in sport shift mode, and the margin got smaller....

so all this brings a big question to mind...is the TLS really faster than the CLS, stock vs stock???? when i test drove both cars, i felt the TLS was stronger and faster off the line than the CLS.

now remember he also had the full comptech exhaust on his ride, and its dropped 2" plus he was running 18" wheels on pirelli's while i was running fully stock setup minus the aem cai. on top of all this, i had my sub box in the trunk while he had taken his out since he was working on it at the time.

what have ya'll seen out there? have you found out the same thing i just did, and would it still be worth my time and money getting the comptech exhaust on my car???

city001

so he has headers and u don't???

city

systek

umm, yes. isnt the whole exhaust system different when they do the complete comptech kit at the factory...not just the headers and axle back plumbing..???

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

No, the TL-S isn't faster than the CL-S.

I went to the track w/ a buddy w/ a fully modded Comptech CL-S and ran .. at the same track, within minutes of him, therefore the SAME track conditions .. 0.5 seconds slower to the 1/4 mile.

He ran a best of 14.7 @9X mph and I ran a best of 15.2 @ four of five mph lower than him.

dean078

i don't think it's worth trying to figure out which is faster. the weight is so close that it's moot and the drivetrain is the same, so any differences in actual tests are only differences between those two cars (assuming exactly the same conditions: temp, driver weight, etc.). for every tl-s that beats a cl-s, there's another cl-s that beats a tl-s, or another tl-s that beats another tl-s, or another cl-s that beats another cl-s...and all within fractions of a second, so it's not even worht debating anymore unless you want to compare your ONE car to someone else's ONE car (ie by racing or getting times).

BlackShadow

But dosen't reaction time count?
That's probably why he beat you in the 1/4 mile.

BTW, the TL-S and CL-S are so close in every category that it will end up with the driver's skills (stock vs. stock).

tls988

Both CL-S & TL-S are pretty even.
Some 0-60 & 1/4 mile time by numerous magazines and websites:

TL Type-S
Car & Driver
0-60 6.5 1/4 14.8
0-60 6.9 1/4 15.1
Road Track
0-60 7.0 1/4 15.3
Super Street
0-60 6.28 1/4 14.72
Edmund.com
0-60 6.6 1/4 15.1
Motor Trend
0-60 6.3 1/4 14.7

CL Type-S
Motor Trend
0-60 6.4 1/4 14.8
Autoweek
0-60 6.7 1/4 15.14
Edmund.com
0-60 6.7 1/4 15.01

AzNTL

the only difference in the two is that the TL-S weighs more by about 10 lbs.. which doesnt make a difference at all

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Bro,

Come on, rxn time has no effect on 1/4-mile time. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, we did not run side by side at the track, we ran one after another. Sure on the street, rxn time is HUGE w/ cars like the CL-S/TL-S that are so closely matched. But I was just keeping it fair and using ACTUAL track times. Stories about street races are one thing, taking the cars out to the track to duke it out reveal a whole 'nutha story.

By the way, I keep reading "driver skill".. and honestly, w/ the TL-S and CL-S ... unless you're sprayin', there is NO driver skill involved other than nailing that rxn time (out on the street) and proper brake-torquing. After that, leave it in SS and just shift at then end of 2 -- it's pretty easy to shift that lever up two cm.

mackdaddy

My sentiments exactly.

JZ39

Man, these posts are getting sooooooo old.

1. They are essentially the SAME car! The TLS may weigh a couple of pounds more but it also has slightly less unsprung weight due to the 6.5" wheels.

2. At the track, the time doesn't start until your car passes the line so reaction time is moot. You could sit there for 5 minutes and then go and your time would still be just that of your run.

3. So, it all comes down to which car is having a better day that day. Stop analyzing it so much.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Then exercise your free will not to participate in the thread. Yeesh

fahoumh

LOL

asiankidd

we should really be about the same pretty much the only difference is just one has 2 doors and the other has 4 doors merry x-mas

Crzy Acura

Hey raj, I thought you ran a 15.4 last time we all went to the track? I ran a 15.1 with just a CAI and springs. This was in the summer if i remember. I dont recall the temps.

As for that modded CLS, Spiroh just ran a 14.2 in his car about 2 weeks ago!!! (no NOS)

As for taking off the line TLS vs CLS, I ran against Spiro about twice off the line at a stop light (no traffic). WE both were nose to nose... but we only ran up to around 65mph, after that im sure his headers would pull like crazy.

AS for headers.... they help alot at higher speeds, he would pull on me like no other on the expressway. I can not even keep up.

Basicly im saying im getting headers soon.

DO i have a point? No not really... there is just no point to even compare both cars... just be happy a 4-door car and keep up with a 2 door.

asiankidd

14.2 god damn!!!!

kleeftonsi

i posted about a race I witnessed at the track a long time ago.

CL Type S vs TL Type S with the comptech headers, but the CL had intake also. They were almost dead even but the CL was about a tenth faster all the time. They ran 14.3-14.4 all night long.

asiankidd

crazy man

systek

so here it goes, we both have aem cai. he has comptech exhaust i dont.

ive been contemplating getting this upgrade, but if the difference is this minute...and sometimes moot...why spend all that extra $$$????


everyone talks soooo much about the performance gains of this upgrade....including acura, 260hp vs 290hp

if i was able to race this well w/out it, give me a reason to spend the cash anyway...that is what i wanted to hear...

Acura3200

ok, to answer your question

Comptech, or any axle back exhaust is ONLY good for 3 - 5 horsepower to the wheels.

It is NOT a performance mod, it is only for looks and a sportier sound

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

If he has the "Comptech Kit" as you call it, all he has are the Headers (about 32whp) and the exhaust, which are axle-back (1-3whp). The exhaust system itself is untouched as it is pretty free-flowing in stock form. If all you had was a CAI, he should have beat you by at least a car length everytime. As for stock vs. stock, I think the posts above should have answered that....

ComptechType-S

HEY!! I dont see anything about the times i won, all the christmas presents in my trunk and the time U hit the rev limiter I would definitly say that the stock 2002 TL-S is faster than a stock 2001 CL-S. I think we need to gut our trunks and try it again. Anyone else in the area want some???

systek

i said, FULL COMPTECH EXHAUST, HEADERS AND ALL

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Unless he has access to something that no one else does, CompTech does not make a full exhaust system, only Axle-back mufflers and Headers. That's it......

systek

hey, thought i did state that....

we went to another location and tried again...geeez, let me tell ya, we tried in automatic mode and he beat me by almost a car lenght...although we kept up at about the same position to about half that race...

and...

now remember he also had the full comptech exhaust on his ride, and its dropped 2" plus he was running 18" wheels on pirelli's while i was running fully stock setup minus the aem cai. on top of all this, i had my sub box in the trunk while he had taken his out since he was working on it at the time.


so you are right..i completely forgot about the presents, but ya know i had my box in my car...

btw, yesterday would have been a great time to go at it again...but it would be even more in my favor cause i stripped the car out completely...to sound deaden it..jejeje

http://dreamwater.org/systek/acuratls/DVDHACK.html

then again, i didnt get everything back together until late last night..so i was dead tired. maybe before i put in the permanent sub box, we can try again and make it as fair as possible, cause i really want to know what's up!



and yes, i did lose more than once to j's cls....but i didnt expect to win at all...

Beiruty

Systek,.

I would say stop street racing.
Go to the track, have some runs, and come back with some time slips.

If you break 15s be happy. Got headers and CAI? shoot for 14.5-.14.7s.

The first to got 14.0s@100+MPH will be KING of the Type-S!

systek

well, im glad you dont live here...cause we love to street race.....we both headed out to set a reference on the performance of my tls w/the cai installed and ended up racing in 4 or 5 different locations in the course of about 1 hr...more or less.

systek

well, i didnt know that...so that is all he has, which should be alot more than what i have....stock exhaust

samkws

it's faster when it's in auto mode, sports shift is slower by tenths of second.

ComptechType-S

I was just messing around with you I came here looking for a post from you with the diff wheels??? Whats up with that? Dont want to show off?
I road around almost all day looking for a place to get my rear springs installed.. Either they were all booked, or didnt want to do it. oh well,,, i'll find someone who wants my money

systek

i know...but i wanted to put all the facts up, to try and demystify what happened...! :p

anyway...i posted in CAF about the rims....but i guess i should do it here too....since its a diff crowd...


http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...threadid=72229

sparky57

The answer may be in those cool looking 18" wheels on your friend's car.

Although huge rims look nice, most folks don't stop and consider the fact that they reduce horsepower at the wheels. Not only are larger diameter wheels typically heavier, more importantly they increase the rotational mass. Sport Compact Car magazine verified that effect with some dyno testing on a Civic. Ever look at drag racing rims on the top fuelers? You will NEVER see huge diameters for that reason. Consider the rim diameter for several racing series:

NASCAR- 15"
CART - 15"
Formula 1 - 13" (yes kids, 13s. they use carbon fiber brakes)

(btw, you wanna hear the ultimate Honda engine? Go to the F1 race at Indy! The 800 horsepower RA001E 3.0 litre V-10 SHRIEKS at 18,000 rpm.)

The REAL reason why some cars like Porsches and Ferraris are initially fitted with 18" wheels is because they have to fit very large diameter brakes.

rw

systek

these are more reasons to stick w/the factory size...but i really want chrome cause of the elegant look it gives, if the right rims are installed.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

if you had a cai and he didn't then you'll have the edge over him until vtec range.
Also there IS skills envolved in launching our cars.
If you simply just mash the gas all the way then your going to spin the tires longer and loose time. Vs. giving gas easy till about 2000~3000 then WOT.

systek

we both have aem cai and we both simply mashed the gas pedal

ComptechType-S

I kind of thought i was spinning my wheels a little longer Oh well! I guess if i learned to drive it would be a different story

systek

then again, if i race ya when my car is gutted out, the loss in weight probably means id be spinning the tires tooo....

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Crzy! Wazzup man, long time no see,

Hey, you guys went to the track and didn't call me up??!! I didn't know Wisconsin was opened this late in the year. 14.2!!! That's great! Someone should post his timeslip over at Maxima.org so they can see what a fully modded CL-S can really run in "ideal" conditions. If he ran a 14.2 a few weeks ago, using some "dumb," crude logic, you should have effectively run a 14.7 a few weeks ago. Spiroh would definitely be in the high 13's if he ran at sea level, and that's pretty much the best a CL-s is gunna do w/o NOS, and without frying the auto tranny.

It would make sense that headers would be more effective on the highway -- once Spiroh drops to WOT in 3rd, his CL-S is in its element .. right around 5000 rpms, just about where those headers are fully exploited.

All these great 1/4-mile times are care of very very cool, dry weather. Run any of our cars in the summer, and you're taking about a whole new set of numbers (times).

Hey, is the track in WI still open?

Crzy Acura

Hey Raj!!

Where the hell you been?!!? WEll I didnt go with spiroh that day he got the 14.2, but he called me as soon it happened to rub it in! I dont remember if he went to union grove that time... i forgot, ill ask him tommorrow. I think they might have gone to the joilet one.

I really wanted to go to the track to see what my car can do in this weather, but i never made it up there. I only went once and that was when you came. I added some nice mods since then, so i will roll up to union grove in spring.

The tracks are closed now, We should look into when they open and make a trip up there.

Raj, did you do anything to your ride since then?

Hey raj, I saw your other posts, so you dont think the a CLS with RES, I/H/E ,Pulleys and the supercharger can do low 13s? Only reason i said low 13s, is because of what spiroh ran without the RES and without the SC. But i do agree that the tranny and traction problems would be an issue at that time.

But you have to admit, if spiroh is doing 14.2 now, and his tranny hasnt gone bad, then im not too worried. Plus have you seen the way this kid drive all the time!!! I belive he has around 30k miles now.. not sure. I have faith in our trannies!!!

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Hey Bro,

No, I haven't done anything to the TL-S yet. Once I'm past 30K miles, I'll start adding stuff. I'm just worried that the headers won't install as easily once I'm up in the 30K miles range. If I'm going to do any mods, I'm doing them all at once, or not at all. I figure I'll put in $2K in a couple years. However, I'm not sure I want to put that kind of money into an automatic ride. I'm seriously looking in either a used M3 in a few years, a used 540i 6-spd, or the new Infiniti G35 6-spd. I'll have a lot less worries on my head w/ a manual transmission and all those mods. What do you think?

I'm definitely in for an early spring trip to the track .. Ken has the G-Tech, we should meet up w/ him and do some baseline comparisons of our three cars.

About the CL-S getting into the 13's .. first of all, you'd agree that it would NEVER happen in temps higher than 40 .. which would mean that MOST of the year, you'd never dip into the 13's consistently. Second, the transmission, MINUS all the hype about its fragility and succeptibility to failure in the first 20K miles, was not intended for all that added hp. The 1st to 2nd shift is the hardest on the tranny .. and that's the one I'd be worried about. With the res and the S/C .. you're destined for piston troubles if not transmission troubles. Maybe Spiroh just broke in his CL-S very very well.

Raj