[QUOTE]Originally posted by bradd

Quote:

You can't even put the E46 M3 in the same CLASS as ANY Honda including the NSX, as it spanks in every way.

Wow, those rose colored BMW driving glasses MUST be altering your perception of reality. Interesting opinion.

1. Top Speed... Not even close the low geared M3 (Nice trick for low speed acceleration) is limited to 155. No offense dude but the NSX will blow past you at that speed. In fact the mighty M3 is much closer in top speed to the (groan from you) TL-S.

TL-S = 147 + 8
M3 = 155 + 13
NSX = 168

2. Cornering Gs -vary by source. MT and R/T BOTH show the M-3 losing to the NSX.

3. Quarter mile. MT and R/T show SAME Time (props to M3). All show the SPEED of the M3 at the end of the 1/4th 2 MPH SLOWER though so the NSX is passing you at that point...

4. Slalom... Again NSX faster, every source...

I'm trying to be civil but these kinds of unsubstantiated comments (disclose your sources if there are any) make me wonder if anything other than brand loyalty / wishful thinking is driving the BMW contingent's perception of reality. If you want to make a statement back it up with some fact, even an article from Roundel. We're car enthusiasts, but not all of us worship at the alter of BMW.

The M3 is an awesome car, be happy with that. If you THINK the M3 spanks the NSX in every way we disagree based upon the resources at my disposal.

 

Are you just dumb? The E46 M3 is ELECTRONICALLY LIMITED AT 155MPH...nice trick huh.

 

NSX vs M3 is a great comparo. But when you consider a 4 seat 2 door with a trunk can keep up with or beat a purpose made 2-seater it says something...

Please kill the 500hp outta a 1.3 liter engine argument because can u say V-8? Hell, V-12? Naw, we BOTH can't!

Look at the IS 300 L-tuend with the supercharger. I am sure the M3 is the standard they are aiming for and aiming to beat, not no Viggen Saab, C 43, Volvo, or Type-S.

Quite frankly looking at ALL AUTOMAKERS, they seem to be all taking a page outta the BMW book, ohhhh faster, with cool special edition names. Hell look at the GS, they shortened it what 6 inches (from the 1st generation) and made its proprtions to be basically identical to the Germans (inline-6, V-8, RWD). So did the IS (RWD, manual, inline -6). And you know what, the critics love them.

The Tl-S is almost in it's own category. It's big like a I30/ES, faster, less luxurious, and way less expensive. It really has it's own market. In it's range you also have Altima's, Maxima's, Avalons, Buicks, Intrigue, and Aurora, Lincoln V-6, Catera, Benz c-classand the TL-S is the one to pick to me.......

But TO ME the Tl-s is too big and the fwd thing vs the A4, IS 300, 3 series, after driving everything except the new A4, that is how I feel.

Crap, this is not good, I am complimenting the TL and BMW, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BMW, Lexus ARCHNEMISIS!

Oh and the IS and GS makes SURE BMW does not stay comfy.....

Anyway, I must also say Hyde has really surprised me keeping this thread open and it SHOULD be commeneded, thanks.........


(punk/just kidding!)

Oh and BMW dudes, the IS 300 L-tuned supercharged is coming, be afraid BE VERY AFRAID!!!! (and the new 7 series is a wreck)

 

Read closer before flaming. No tricks required. Why do the BMW folks resort to name calling when facts interfere with wishful thinking?

BTW, since you want to open this up again, here's another fact... The 540i (non-Sport) is electronically limited to 128 a WHOPPING 19 MPH LESS than the (also Electronically limited) TL-S.

Have a nice day.

 

Wow, 1Sick, we don't see eye to eye on too much but I'm proud of you.

 

Web, it is funny sometimes because I SWEAR I could see all of us at a bar or a restuarant discussing our cars like we are doing now. I think the climate would be the same and I think no one her is phony or a tough internet guy. This is very good.

I wonder sometimes, are Mr. Nissan and Mr. BMW and Mr. Toyota and Mr. Honda eating lunch BUSTING A GUT reading our posts?

Hell we TRY to be unbiased, but shoot when you pay for something, take pride in it and enjoy it, tempers will flare.

Anyway I am not getting soft, just a moment of clarity.

 

This post has been for the most part flame and put down free, something you seem to love to do, and unlike prior posts that I had to lock, edit or delete. If posts stay this way I have no problem whatsoever with them.

 

Gee, thanks (I think)

 

Over the years, we have figured out the problem is with these BMW guys. It's called "BMW Attitude". Many of my friends who own BWM's even joke with me about. Those owners who have "BMW ATTITUDE" fully believe that they got their moneys worth buying their car on a lot, even though 2 years later the extra $10K they paid for the car has vanished with (open up an auto trader, M's seem to hold value better). This attitude also makes them real bad drivers in rush hour traffic, they will cut into a lane with more arrogance then any other driver. It also makes them think that their cars are also somewhat reliable (which they absolutely are not). This attitude makes a 1990 3 series owner still think their car is the king of the road today, even though nothing is working on it (as in my Aunts BMW). We usually go on and on.

I'm not sure weather its marketing or just arrogance or simply the fact that they over pay on their cars and rationalize that its better.

But it's always fun watching a 4 banger Honda S2000 woop up on almost any "ultimate machine" stock BMW on the track at a lowly price of $32,000. And even though it may not be quite as fast as a new M3 on the track (which is still unknown at this time), it is STILL a better pure performance car. And STILL a better track car.

Geez… I mean Porsche owners SHOULD have this attitude because their cars are truly king, but they don’t…

 

I don't know who "we" refers to (maybe non-BMW owners ?) but BMW is a top 5 resale vehicle, and considering the fact that they offer 3 years free maintenance helps considerably. My wife has over 14k trouble-free miles (not bad for a convertible) so I really can't relate whatsoever, and a few co-workers also have late model Bimmers who can claim likewise. Everyone knows that any issues BMWs usually have are small electrical problems, and it's true that they are costly to repair after the warranty ends, but a rather large percent (per info from my dealer) turn around their vehicles before the warranty ends. As far as nothing working on an 11 year-old BMW ? I had a 95 Accord that had just about everything fail possible (tranny, sunroof, alternator, full brakework, full exhaust) which I got rid of after 4 years, so does that make all Accords bad ? And the quote about arrogant impatient drivers relates to all people, the fact that you assume that only BMW owners are like this is ridiculous and pure speculation.

 

Told ya, another "BMW Attitude"... Pick up an auto trader please...

 

While it's certainly true that some BMW owners earn a reputation for "attitude" that rubs off on the rest of us, please try not to generalize quite so much.

I have a love/hate relationship with my Bimmer: I love the performance and driving it, but hate the fact that so much of my driving is back and forth to the service department! I expected a $45K car to exceed the levels of build quality and reliability I've gotten from my (much less expensive) Acuras, and I've been disappointed.

BMW's best asset isn't their design or engineering but instead their marketing. Americans have really bought into that "Ultimate Driving Machine" stuff. Acura needs to come up with a tagline like Lexus' "Relentless Pursuit of Perfection" that will enhance their image in the American marketplace.

I don't want to get sucked into the S2000 vs. M3 (or M Roadster, which is a more valid comparison) debate--my sig shows what choice I made!

 

Thanks for the advice, I went over to AutoTrader.com and input my wife's car (I guess the attitude is transferable ??) and guess what ? I've lost $2100 off what I paid for it last Jan., really horrible depreciation. You should also know that they just ranked 3rd for Dealer Satisfaction by JD Powers (although Daewoo ranked 4th ?!) So, because I've had a pleasant experience with BMW and had researched the resale value (which again ranks high consistently after initial depreciation) should I get rid of it based on your aunt's experience with an 11 year-old car ?? Of course not, just the same way you wouldn't get rid of your car just because some people here have Acura issues, whatever works for you should be enough. There's no need to put people in a certain group based on perception and not fact, as BMW sells over a million cars a year (with a high loyalty and return purchase rate), they must be doing something right.

 

Iceman is correct.
As a former bimmer, I don't know how to express my feelings on visiting dealership for a service. I paid over $40K for decent & European made vehicle, which needs to go to a dealership almost every month for a service.

Thesedays, in my opinion, cars from A company to Z company are very much equal in terms of quality because if you fail on quality, there is no way you are going to survive in U.S. market. For example, Lexus sold in Japan are a lot ****ter than we buy here. Same as Korean automobiles. European cars are different, they get a lot better & updated autos than we do.

Also, today's business is 90% marketing with 10% competitive quality, I guess. This is what Acura should focus on. People think of Honda if they hear name of Acura. Just like TL = Accord etc. Lexus is doing pretty good at differentiating two brands as well as Infiniti.

Acura is a fine automobile with decent featurea. Maybe they might want to introduce M3 killer in a near future? Something like 350 horse compact sedan with 6 speed or a coupe?

Happy motoring every1