Road Rage

Unless an E36 M3 has had its top-speed governor de-activated, it will top out at 137 mph, and the TL will "walk" it at the rate of about 11 miles in an hour.

BTW, I had the first E36 M3 in Virginia in April, 1994! It was very quick and a blast to drive, but I had a lot of problems with it - intake manifold gasket leak, plastic radiator end caps leaked hot coolant, remote trunk solenoid failed (found the exact replacement at a Radio Shack!), Engine management computer replaced 2 times, one time for an emissions problem (which lowered its power). I understand the 3.0L '95's were quicker than the 3.2's for over 1 and 1/2 years.

M5 Lite

I stand corrected. So does this mean I pay more for insurance that lets say on a mid-size car?

Road Rage

I am no insurance expert, but I betcha that a few minutes of Google searching would answer your question. I do know they factor in cost of repair, average loss per claim, frequency of heist, HP/weight, # doors, etc. into it. Also, you seem to imply that smaller should be less to insure, and if they factor in personal injury, that may not hold true since physics suggests that when two masses collide, the smaller (lighter) will fare less well, all things the same such as passive/active safety features.

My brother has same car as you - very nice - he is thiniking about either an M5, new E55, or the new NSX when it arrives. He drove my car the other day and was surprised at the off-line snap, and how tight the handling was with the mods I did.

BTW, isn't the 540i speed governed?

M5 Lite

Yes the 540i is governed. They are governed to 137MPH (or 128MPH) for the 5 series, except for the 540i Sport and M5(which are governed to 155MPH). I would love to see how much faster my car can go after 155 though.

1SICKLEX

Dahm, I must make some pretty good points for people to take my quotes from 1 website and post em on another......

My main problem is morons who read (or heard) the tl did 0-60 in 6.2 sec, they know they have 260hp and think they can F*CK with ANY car. NAWWWWWWWWWWW Buddy. Cmon a TL-s vs a M3 that is INSANE, quite frankly nothing can go toe to toe with the M3 besides what a Z06? Anything else costs WAAAAAAAAAAy more. I am not even talking about the 2002 model. The last model.

I have NEVER heard a GS 300 owner say, OH I BEAT THIS CAR ETC ETC because that is not what they bought their car for. They bought the car for LUXURY, the PANACHE, and a great handling sedan. NOT FOR GOING 0-60 blah blah blah.

I am so tired of hearing I BEAT A GS, 530 an IS, 323, etc and we KNOW the TL-s is faster duh......oh and I SAVED 15k, 5k etc and I am faster.

Like someone said, then Z28s and Cobra owners say the same thing about the TL (HELL NO THEY DON'T).

I say stop racing because it may hurt the delicate tranny.........

M5 Lite

There's nothing wrong with racing and having a little fun, but when people start to compare TLS/CLS vs. M3 and things of that nature, it sort of gets me. Both cars were made for different purposes and hence, they are not comparable. We can compare by saying the M3 is faster, the TLS/CLS is more comfortable, the M3 has a better build quality, TLS/CLS has much more luxury.

2 Cars, 2 different purposes.

If its all about performance, take a look at the Camaro SS which will hand both cars their asses plus change. Can't beat american muscle. For the money, for what you get, the TLS/CLS cannot be beat, but once again, thats only in *that* particular reason for buying it.

1SICKLEX

Exactly. Then a knucklehead will argue "oh but my car does not rattle like a Z28" well the cars purpose is not for a comfortable, rattle free ride, it is to lay the SMACKETH DOWN....

Cmon the M3 was chosen as the best handling car PERIOD. In comparos it goes against the S4, C43, etc.....Type S is NOWHERE near the equivilent of AMG or M etc....

BTW I sure as heck never said the GS was incomparable....but some of the statements/questions are realy silly and I am just posting my 2 cents......

Guest

Webologist, the fact that you pull quotes from someone that would seem to imply that they have nothing to offer to this forum proves nothing. If I were to cut and paste every quote or article quoting "our cars are way better", "That car is way overpriced", "That POS can't compare to our TLs", "I smoked a ______", or "Best bang for the buck" crap I would bring down the server. I don't even come here half as much because all the posts talk about what car they could beat with this mod, and still save $20k. You'd think that there was some big auto conspiracy between Mercedes, BMW and Lexus to see how much money they can screw consumers out of without anyone noticing. Do you think Acura is in the market for charity ? You're not getting $50k worth of car for $30k, you get average materials and good build quality, nothing more and nothing less. Everyone will quote different times, and everyone will believe everything they read as fact, me personally, I can't consider the 5-series a compact, especially since it is the same size as a TL, GS and E-class. Before I got my GS430, I once considered a TL (TLS wasn't made yet) until I test drove one, and realized how much it reminded me of my old Accord. No one can fault me for going with a Lexus, they're well-made, reliable, depreciate well, and quiet as can be. And I'm still bewildered why anyone would consider that link you posted about "best satisfaction or whatever for first 3 months" ? Three months ?! Who cares about the first 3 months ?! Almost all cars built today will be fine the first 3 months, I want to know about after 2 years, or when the warranty ends. No one will get rid of their car if they've had a problem or 2 in 3 months because their warranty will cover it anyways, so IMO that stat is irrelevent, even if they had said Lexus was best.

M5 Lite

I have a feeling that we put the guilty 'not all knowing' party to shame and this thread will now probably go into the archives without additional arguement.

InspireS

1SICKLEX,

I big to differ with you but the E46 M3 and the GS430 are great cars, performance wise and luxury wise. However, they do not dominate the road.

I am a 2002 TLS owner (only 200miles so far), I used to drive a 98 Volvo S70 T5, modded with larger turbo, chip, and anything you can think of...oh yeah....automatic as well. I ran my best quarter mile at 13.7, and dynoed in at 267 fwhp.

I used to smoke GS430s and 540iMT easily, I went head to head with a E46 M3, couldn't pull ahead, but stuck to his ass like flies on sh*t.

So far I think the TLS is a great car, excellent perfomance at launch, but uncomparible to European cars on the highway.

It doesn't take much to be faster than a GS430 or a 540iMT, it's all relative to how deep your pockets are.

As a TLS owner I must admit that the TLS is not in the same category as any 5-series BMW or Lexus GS. It's a completely different class, but I am proud to own a TLS and enjoy driving it.

And there is no comparison btw N/A and Turbo engines, I test drove the E46 M3 and thought it was slow compared to the S4, however the E46 M3 lists as 83hp over the S4...so it's all relative.

Enjoy the flames,

InspireS

AC

Actually, well said! I will say this, "smoke" GS430 and 540i/6 easily I think IMO is an exageration. I don't doubt you beat them but with the times you posted, it's hard to believe the word "smoke" but I guess it all depends on your definition.

M5 Lite

13.7 is hardly 'smoking' the competition. Thats only about .3 - .4 seconds faster than my car. And I'm hoping to hit 13.9s stock in mine after my new clutch gets in. You might beat them but then once again, how much work did you have to do to a turbo car to get it that fast?

I had an eclipse beat me at the track. He pulled away very little, but he managed a 13.7x @ something like 102MPH. I hardly though that he smoked me. And he told me he had ALOT done to his car.

As for the fact about comparing the E46 M3 and the S4, I have nothing more to say other than laugh at you on this one. I can beat the S4 stock in my E36 M3 that I had. And I've got two witnesses who have S4's to prove me handing them their ass.

city001

when i get my 911 turbo...i'll hand u all ur asses

city

InspireS

M5Lite,

I agree with your analysis, I did have a lot of work done to the Volvo, as I said before it all depends how deep your pockets are..


City,

Yeah when I get my GT2, we'll go for a run with your 911 Turbo

All in all, I don't agree with some that the TLS is in a comparable class with the 5-series or the GS-series, the TLS is a great car for what you pay for. It's all a difference in opinion, and it is amazing what some people will post. However, reality check be happy with what you've got cuz you're probably better off than many ppl in the world.

InspireS

M5 Lite

Amen!

Guest

FYI, straight from Road And Track magazine


(Professional Drivers of course)

Acura TL Type S
0-60- 7 Seconds.
1/4 Mile- 15.3


BMW E36 M3
0-60 5.5 Seconds (Manual Transmission)
1/4 Mile-13.8 Seconds

Guest

Stock for stock, we kill you.

Handling-wise, we own you.

We look better, drive better, and get much more respect.

You want to talk <A HREF="http://www.jmn1.com/turbo/1.mpg">speed</a> after modifications? Find a car on level with the TL/CL, because the M3 is so far above you it's a joke. As much as some of you would like to rationalize, cry, and desperately thump your sunken chests, the mere fact that you compare your soft, floaty POS boats to ANY M3 is beneath contempt.

However, this does not mean that you should stop your collective busll****ting about how your cars somehow measure up, because it is providing waaaay too much amusement for the BMW forums that are following this thread. We were all pretty much alerted to this BS thread by people falling off their chairs, laughing at most of you bozos:

Guest

Not to mention the TL-S handles horribly compared to the M3, has TERRIBLE brakes, and you have to drive around with every ricer in town looking at you and your "type" whatever and putting that on their car.

umnitza

at least your car is comfortable
oh...and did I mention that you're comparing a 2002 with a car that was design and built 6+ years ago and with few changes year in year out

Guest

Damn straight, some of you honda guys are cool (god knows some of my good friends drive hondas/ acuras and are even on this forum)... but another set of you guys just cannot get your facts straight. sure hondas are great cars, they last a long time, and are reliable. But sometimes that just doesn't get the job done. There is just no competition for the m3's. From day one, the e30 body m3 was the greatest track car of it's time, and that car will still kick type r's asses on the track. Then came the next generation, the e36, also named best handling car in america several years in a row. Now, the new dinasty, the e46 m3, which will smoke practically every car on and off the track... The name stands for itself, m (motorsport) cars are track cars, sure if you fix up your hondas enough they'll beat an occasional m3 off the line, but you have to keep in mind, most m3 owners keep thier cars stock... they don't do **** to them, and they will still beat all you guys on the track (you cant mess with 50/50 weight distribution). I used to work for my dad, who is a car wholeeller, i have either owned or driven the majority of the cars sold here in the us, and trust me, none come close to the m3... not the audi s4, not the s2000, not the integra type r.

You guys should go out for test drives of manual m vehicles and see for yourselves... There is just no comparison.


BMW PRIDE, WORLDWIDE

Guest

Mess with the best, Die like the rest.......

why am I even wasting my time here.

EricL

I like that picture -- it sure beats the the other one that shows up during "Board Jihads..." LOL

Mr Hyde

I'm sick of those post as well, but I found your posts about how you keep up with Vettes so well just as humerous and annoying. http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...&pagenumber=2. Hahahaha You laugh at TL-S owners who say they can hang with a GS400 and speak about racing cars, yet you can somehow race with and hang with Vettes, um yeah good one. I doubt that Vette Owner makes the same comparo you refer to when he refers to a GS400.

This thread is pointless, maybe annoying, and definitely humerous, but if it degenerates into flames, and pointless cursing, I'll lock her up, but for now she stays.

Um yeah LMAO my car is a POS. Good come back. If your other brethren on the BMW boards were as astute as you, I dont think I would want to go over there, although LagunaSecaBlue shows that you are all not morons, just a few of you guys over there, just like over here. Hey Bradd keep searching I am sure you can find an even slower time for the TL-S and then compare that to an ever faster time for the M3.

If I wanted an old M3, I would have bought one, not like I couldnt afford it, but it wasnt the car for me; didnt fill my needs, and it apparently wasnt the car for most of the members of this board. Not everyone has the same needs for a car. if there were one perfect car for all people, I'm pretty sure we'd all be driving one. To those who own the M3, great car, they kick ass, not sure about the Smurf Blue Color Scheme on the new one, but kick ass car none the less. Later All

umnitza

if you're so sick of this thread...what made you re-open it

Mr Hyde

If it degenerates I'll lock it up, but if it remains clean it can stay. Everyone needs a good laugh and some fun now and then right??

Webologist

Ted,

do you really think that the price of a car is set by manufacturers according to production costs? Do you think that paying more is a guarantee of getting more? Price is set by what the market will bear.

I don't fault you at all for going with Lexus, it's a solid manufacturer with a well deserved reputation for quality. I've never said otherwise. The quality implications come from 1Sick and company and are (mis)directed at the TL contingent.

The JD Power and Associates Initial Quality Survery is not about how well people liked their cars in the first 3 months. It's about how many manufacturing defects were reported in the first 3 months of ownership. This is a very valid statistic. The bulk of manufacturing defects will be found in the first 3 months. If you look at the cars that finish at the top of this list (and the bottom as well) you'll usually see a corresponding long term reliability rating. The LS was the clear winner with a margin. The fact Acura and Lexus owned the top is an indication of the relative quality of these cars. In reality the difference between the TL and GS isn't the worth mentioning. They both smoked the industry average of that had nearly twice as many defects per 100 vehicles sold.

My reason for buying the TL-S was also due to many reasons. Acura also has a reputation as a quality manufacturer. My wife traded her Firebird which had very many problems BOTH SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM (167 defects per 100 cars by the way (almost exactly double the TL). She traded it on a CL in 99 and has 0 problems since, not one! This mirrors the experience of many Acura owners I know with 250K and up on Legends that look and run like new. I'm a consultant and can put very high milage on a car. I can afford to pay more for a car but the depreciation kills me when I trade it. I like driving the TL-S and I'm here to tell you it can hang with lots of cars whose drivers feel are incomparable. I've only had it since March 17 but no problems so far, nor do I expect any. Like it or not the engine is a jewel. The car runs with very fast company, gets great milage, it's a LEV and I love the sound of the engine when revs climb over 4K. No car is perfect, all are the result of engineering comprimises and there are things I'd change. Acura did a great job designing, optioning and pricing the car.

EricL

Flip side start...

I had a thought about some of this. And, I wonder how many of all of us (Bimmers, Acuras, Name your Brands) have run into some seemingly great car, only to find it sliding, fishtailing all over the road, not keeping pace...

Bench racing is fun, the cars are great, and what about the poor souls who buy the cars, and so ill informed as to put cheap-o replacement tires (80,000 mile family station wagon equivalents) and then can't get out of there way as their sliding around...

Add to that the few and the proud that love to drive their prizes to the point were there is oil smoke belching from the exhaust as they back off the throttle at an apex creating a 007 approved smoke screen.

So, top against top, add up the scores, then look for the bottom -- it's out there...

(I like both cars -- alot!)

Flip side out....

Guest

Perfectly put, agreed 100%.

Mr Hyde

The truth only hurts those that deny it, but in order for something to be the truth it needs to be based upon fact, not opinion. As is without Rims or Stereo upgrades of any sort I have spent over 41k on my car including the car itself; paid in cash. If I wanted an old M3, dont you think I could have got one???? I found the perfect car for me; its parked in my garage as we speak.

LMAO I have dealt with trolls here in the past and in the present as well. If you choose to become one, you may join their ranks, otherwise happy posting.You mention my insecurities yet, what board am I posting on???

Guest

The issue has nothing to do with your financial status, (although I admit I am glad to hear someone is doing well in a time when a lot of people I know are struggling) - it is to the issue: The cars simply cannot be compared in the realm of performance! Stock for stock, the M3 is the better car. As the two cars are modified, the M3 only becomes more untouchable. While hardly an ultra-uber end-all supercar, the M3 stands worlds apart in the performance realm from any Acura made save for the NSX. Period. A comparo to any of Acura's lesser-performing offerings is utterly inane.

That is the extent of my contest - nothing else. You will not hear me say the Acura is in any way a bad car. I, too know its strong points, and happily give credit where it is due. Reliable, trouble-free, trustworthy, pretty powerful...all adjectives deserving of the Acura. Nice, but the M3 is a track monster off the showroom floor, something few (if any) FWD automatics can ever hope for.

That is all. Well, that and I will say that you are obviously a man of class and seemingly infinite jest, at my home board I would have certainly banned the sh*t out of someone like myself by now. FWIW, I appreciate it.

{edit] LOL BTW, referencing somehting I've said <b>after</b> you have deleted it only makes you look foolish:

http://www.jmn1.com/PWTboard/jokeboard.html

Mr Hyde

"You will not hear me say the Acura is in any way a bad car." So calling it a POS is a compliment??? Sorry I didnt quite catch that one, but then again I am not the type that places that much weight on what a stranger thinks or cares about me especially on an internet forum to let it guide my major decisions.

Bottom line I never said nor do I feel the Tl-S should be compared to the M3, they are in different leagues, and I dont feel anyone would be gullible enough to think that thats what Acura intended. I think Acura was aiming for the regular 3 series, I30T, and more regular family oriented cars with the TL-S, and I think they did a pretty good job.

Guest

Feh, an easily understandable reaction to the audacity of comparing the two cars - I found "POS" rather tame in comparison to the derision that I was actually yearning to articulate.

Oh well. Glad you don't think the two are in the same performance league. That means my issue is not with you

Mr Hyde

Oh and my referencs to things I edited were directed at one person and one person only; you. If you understood what I said, then mission accomplished. I dont see anything foolish about it; I accomplished what I set out to do.

P.S. Nice car

Guest

Touche' !!!!

[edit] thanks - You too, I love the color

1SICKLEX

Wow I am speechless, the thread lives, almost everyone is objective, wow.........

About the vette thing, I said I got killed by the Z06 and hanged with the C-5, I did not say I won, I was surpised and the way the guy was looking he was surprised......

Wow 10 years ago who would have said Lexus or Acura enthusiest (BMW guys had all the fun)...

umnitza

Mr. Hyde...you show amazing restraint.
Very commendable.
Thanks for allowing us "lowly" Bimmer dudes to join in the discussion...

BTW - why wouldn't you compare something that fits a little more in the comparison spectrum - 330i...the M3 is still more pure sports car and really shouldn't be compared - not in 0-60, 1/4 or anything else.

y2ks2k

Look at all the BMW trolls in this tread. They sure are spending a lot of time on the Acura boards... Makes me think they must see it as a threat. They are over here touting their $60K M3 against a $30K Acura (even thought $30 tl’s all around spanks a $45K 330Ci). I would prefer to have a TL type S and a CL Type S instead of one. If I were a BMW guy, I would not get to comfy... BMW is just now offering Acura/Honda performance that we have seen in the USA with the NSX since 91. Honda wont let it last long. I suspect you will see a type R Honda to cone out soon to knock of the current M3, it only took a $32,000 S2000 to spank an M in performance as little as a year ago.

Hell, BMW engine efficiency is finally coming around, 10 years after the NSX came out. They actually broke 100 hp/liter... that’s 15 years late.

The New NSX will be here soon. Honda has said that it will already pull a 1.10 lat G with a 400+ HP engine. This tops the current Z06 Lat G of 1.00.

Guest

[QUOTE]Originally posted by y2ks2k
[B]Look at all the BMW trolls in this tread. They sure are spending a lot of time on the Acura boards... Makes me think they must see it as a threat. They are over here touting their $60K M3 against a $30K Acura (even thought $30 tl’s all around spanks a $45K 330Ci). [QUOTE]


Uh. I don't know what you have been smoking Bro-Ham, but I paid $3000.00 less for my car than you did if you paid $30,000.

We are talking E36 M3 brother. You can't even put the E46 M3 in the same CLASS as ANY Honda including the NSX, as it spanks in every way.

I paid $27000 for my 98 M3 bro.

Guest

OMG, where to begin ?? Well, for starters, a TLS will NOT spank a 330, unless you consider one-tenth of a second "spanking", and an M3 is listed as $45k, around $51k loaded, the price you are quoting is simply based on supply and demand, exactly what the Miata pulled about a decade ago. And as far as the NSX goes, those things are listed at $80k, and a new M3 is still faster for $30k less. Hell, a new Trans-Am is faster, let alone a Firebird, you act as if the S2000 has changed everything, even owners will tell you that it's not an everyday kind of car and is better suited at higher rpms. And that line about BMW just NOW offering performance that Honda/Acura had ten years earlier ??!! Understand this, BMW is performance, always have been, long before Honda was even a company. And you wonder why all these Bimmer owners have to come here to justify themselves ?!

Mr Hyde

Come on guys read the prior posts, I myself said that the M3 should NOT be compared with the TL-S, thats ridiculous. Who here honestly thinks that Acura said to themselves hey lets make an M3 competitor and that the Tl-S was the result??? The 3 series is the real comparison; 318-330 for the TL-TL-S.

Ted your logic eludes me every time.

You compare the midengine, all aluminum NSX to the M3 or better yet the Vette and Camaro. They all belong in the same class as much as the M3 and TL-S do. For some reason when someone here makes a comparison between the TL-S and some other car that it shouldn't be compared to you go into conniptions about how the comparison is ridiculous at the same time using your own ridiculous comparisons that somehow make sense to you. Do you have to justify them to yourself as being correct and accurate or do you really believe them from the getgo??

You said the same thing in your other post comparing the Vette to the NSX. All the NSX, M3, M5, Porsche, Lotus, etc, etc owners must be idiots for wasting all their money on their cars right??? They should of all just bought Camaros and Firebirds; what morons.