TL-S VS '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed
#1
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TL-S VS '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed
Me and my friend were having this argument... basically, he was saying after test driving my car that the '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed that he used to have would edge out TL-S in both handling and straight line acceleration. I coulnd't really say anything to that because I've never driven the manual Maxima before (auto I've driven) but my guess is that they should run neck to neck. What do you guys think?
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Re: TL-S VS '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed
Originally posted by SpoonPower78
Me and my friend were having this argument... basically, he was saying after test driving my car that the '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed that he used to have would edge out TL-S in both handling and straight line acceleration. I coulnd't really say anything to that because I've never driven the manual Maxima before (auto I've driven) but my guess is that they should run neck to neck. What do you guys think?
Me and my friend were having this argument... basically, he was saying after test driving my car that the '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed that he used to have would edge out TL-S in both handling and straight line acceleration. I coulnd't really say anything to that because I've never driven the manual Maxima before (auto I've driven) but my guess is that they should run neck to neck. What do you guys think?
#4
I wouldn't think the 5 speed and weight difference could overcome a deficit of 70 hp. Definitely not out handle you, I can't believe Nissan marketed that "multi-beam rear axle" as a feature...
#5
Originally posted by cforez
I wouldn't think the 5 speed and weight difference could overcome a deficit of 70 hp. Definitely not out handle you, I can't believe Nissan marketed that "multi-beam rear axle" as a feature...
I wouldn't think the 5 speed and weight difference could overcome a deficit of 70 hp. Definitely not out handle you, I can't believe Nissan marketed that "multi-beam rear axle" as a feature...
As they say in the car business, if you can't undo an engineering screw up, call it a 'feature'.
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Re: Re: TL-S VS '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed
Originally posted by Speedy3.2CL-S
HAHAH! If he even thinks his car will out handle ours he is dreaming. The beam axle and the 4th gen model combined was the worse handling Maxima built. The 5th gen got much better when they moved that link. The 95 5spd was one of the fastest Maximas produced from its light weight 2850-3000lb, to its no OBD2. It's hard to say, but on the highway you will walk away from him, from a stop, might be close.
HAHAH! If he even thinks his car will out handle ours he is dreaming. The beam axle and the 4th gen model combined was the worse handling Maxima built. The 5th gen got much better when they moved that link. The 95 5spd was one of the fastest Maximas produced from its light weight 2850-3000lb, to its no OBD2. It's hard to say, but on the highway you will walk away from him, from a stop, might be close.
#7
I used to have a stock 97 max SE until I bought a TLS. In my opinion, the stock TLS handles better, but not much. There is noticeable body lean in both cars. The 5th generation Max SE does corner with less body lean but also has a slight firmer ride than the 95. Straight acceleration I would say the TLS and 95 5spd would be pretty close. The VQ engines are pretty torquey.
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#8
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Originally posted by ROCK
I used to have a stock 97 max SE until I bought a TLS. In my opinion, the stock TLS handles better, but not much. There is noticeable body lean in both cars. The 5th generation Max SE does corner with less body lean but also has a slight firmer ride than the 95. Straight acceleration I would say the TLS and 95 5spd would be pretty close. The VQ engines are pretty torquey.
I used to have a stock 97 max SE until I bought a TLS. In my opinion, the stock TLS handles better, but not much. There is noticeable body lean in both cars. The 5th generation Max SE does corner with less body lean but also has a slight firmer ride than the 95. Straight acceleration I would say the TLS and 95 5spd would be pretty close. The VQ engines are pretty torquey.
Motor Trend
May 2001 issue for the TLS= 61.2 mph in 600 foot slalom
April 1997 issue for 4th gen 97 Max=65.9 mph
July 1999 issue 5th gen 00 Max= 62.0 mph
June 2000 issue 00 TL= 62.5mph
Feb 1995 issue 95 Max= 65.1 mph
So they seem to be able to weave it around the cones faster than a TLS despite the beam.
In all publications I have seen the 4th gen Max has outslalomed the TLS, my 1997SE didnot have alot of Body Roll and I could manuever it better than the TLS people knock Maximas because of the beam but the truth is they handle well for a Mid size car.
#9
Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
Cool rock well lets take some "auto statistics form Motor Trend on each Car in the 600 foot slalom.
Motor Trend
May 2001 issue for the TLS= 61.2 mph in 600 foot slalom
April 1997 issue for 4th gen 97 Max=65.9 mph
July 1999 issue 5th gen 00 Max= 62.0 mph
June 2000 issue 00 TL= 62.5mph
Feb 1995 issue 95 Max= 65.1 mph
So they seem to be able to weave it around the cones faster than a TLS despite the beam.
In all publications I have seen the 4th gen Max has outslalomed the TLS, my 1997SE didnot have alot of Body Roll and I could manuever it better than the TLS people knock Maximas because of the beam but the truth is they handle well for a Mid size car.
Cool rock well lets take some "auto statistics form Motor Trend on each Car in the 600 foot slalom.
Motor Trend
May 2001 issue for the TLS= 61.2 mph in 600 foot slalom
April 1997 issue for 4th gen 97 Max=65.9 mph
July 1999 issue 5th gen 00 Max= 62.0 mph
June 2000 issue 00 TL= 62.5mph
Feb 1995 issue 95 Max= 65.1 mph
So they seem to be able to weave it around the cones faster than a TLS despite the beam.
In all publications I have seen the 4th gen Max has outslalomed the TLS, my 1997SE didnot have alot of Body Roll and I could manuever it better than the TLS people knock Maximas because of the beam but the truth is they handle well for a Mid size car.
#10
I think it'll be a good race if the Max driver knows where to shift and know how to drive. He should give a great run, at least until you hit that pesky 4th gear and get out of VTEC, so I'd keep it under that gear. The 95-99 VQ is torquey but makes no usable power above 6,200rpms (redline is 6,550rpms). The TL-S will pull all the way to redline, but doesn't have the low-end TQ of the VQ. Wheel Horsepower/weight ratio is favorable to the TL-S, but you'd be suprised how the Maxima 5speed will keep up with you. Both cars are capable high 14 second cars and both have top speeds above 140mph.
Difference between handling on Maxima Vs TL-S on smooth roads is this....
TL-S feels precise and tidy
Maxima feels less precise but can generate better numbers and has higher limits
TL-S will have the advantage on choppy/bumpy roads ( I'm not talking about a small/med lumpy road here or there, I'm talking about straight big potholes ) You'd be suprised at how composed the rear end of the Maxima is on small/med lumps on the road. Only on bigger bumps, the rear end steps out.
Difference between handling on Maxima Vs TL-S on smooth roads is this....
TL-S feels precise and tidy
Maxima feels less precise but can generate better numbers and has higher limits
TL-S will have the advantage on choppy/bumpy roads ( I'm not talking about a small/med lumpy road here or there, I'm talking about straight big potholes ) You'd be suprised at how composed the rear end of the Maxima is on small/med lumps on the road. Only on bigger bumps, the rear end steps out.
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Originally posted by ScreamingVQ
I think it'll be a good race if the Max driver knows where to shift and know how to drive. He should give a great run, at least until you hit that pesky 4th gear and get out of VTEC, so I'd keep it under that gear. The 95-99 VQ is torquey but makes no usable power above 6,200rpms (redline is 6,550rpms). The TL-S will pull all the way to redline, but doesn't have the low-end TQ of the VQ. Wheel Horsepower/weight ratio is favorable to the TL-S, but you'd be suprised how the Maxima 5speed will keep up with you. Both cars are capable high 14 second cars and both have top speeds above 140mph.
Difference between handling on Maxima Vs TL-S on smooth roads is this....
TL-S feels precise and tidy
Maxima feels less precise but can generate better numbers and has higher limits
TL-S will have the advantage on choppy/bumpy roads ( I'm not talking about a small/med lumpy road here or there, I'm talking about straight big potholes ) You'd be suprised at how composed the rear end of the Maxima is on small/med lumps on the road. Only on bigger bumps, the rear end steps out.
I think it'll be a good race if the Max driver knows where to shift and know how to drive. He should give a great run, at least until you hit that pesky 4th gear and get out of VTEC, so I'd keep it under that gear. The 95-99 VQ is torquey but makes no usable power above 6,200rpms (redline is 6,550rpms). The TL-S will pull all the way to redline, but doesn't have the low-end TQ of the VQ. Wheel Horsepower/weight ratio is favorable to the TL-S, but you'd be suprised how the Maxima 5speed will keep up with you. Both cars are capable high 14 second cars and both have top speeds above 140mph.
Difference between handling on Maxima Vs TL-S on smooth roads is this....
TL-S feels precise and tidy
Maxima feels less precise but can generate better numbers and has higher limits
TL-S will have the advantage on choppy/bumpy roads ( I'm not talking about a small/med lumpy road here or there, I'm talking about straight big potholes ) You'd be suprised at how composed the rear end of the Maxima is on small/med lumps on the road. Only on bigger bumps, the rear end steps out.
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Originally posted by cforez
I wouldn't think the 5 speed and weight difference could overcome a deficit of 70 hp.
I wouldn't think the 5 speed and weight difference could overcome a deficit of 70 hp.
#14
Originally posted by SpoonPower78
Well, 260HP for the TL-S and 190HP for the old VQ are factory claimed figures... if TL-S had 70HP AT THE WHEELS advantage, yeah, it would dust any Maxima any day, but I'm pretty sure the HP difference won't be as much once both cars get dynoed.
Well, 260HP for the TL-S and 190HP for the old VQ are factory claimed figures... if TL-S had 70HP AT THE WHEELS advantage, yeah, it would dust any Maxima any day, but I'm pretty sure the HP difference won't be as much once both cars get dynoed.
#15
Re: Re: Re: TL-S VS '95 Maxima SE 5-Speed
Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
Actually they handle very well, better than the TLS, the TLS has the advantage over pot holes and things. The Beam does tend to slide some, but over good roads and corners the SE handles better with less body lean. I had a 97 Max and it handled better than my TLS. Staright line would be close those cars were light and used all of their torque well a 5spd would be a good race for a TLS, highway you would not walk away I recently ran one on the 190 in Dallas and did not pull at highway speeds, I am being honest.
Actually they handle very well, better than the TLS, the TLS has the advantage over pot holes and things. The Beam does tend to slide some, but over good roads and corners the SE handles better with less body lean. I had a 97 Max and it handled better than my TLS. Staright line would be close those cars were light and used all of their torque well a 5spd would be a good race for a TLS, highway you would not walk away I recently ran one on the 190 in Dallas and did not pull at highway speeds, I am being honest.
A IRS will always handle better/smoother than any beam suspension. The Maxima does handle well, but not the 4th gen, 5th gen handles better due to better wheels and tire combo, and slight changs to the suspension.
Ask Shingles what he thinks of each car how it handles since he is about to get a TL-S or CL-S due to the way it handles and drives is alot better than his 4th gen.
Again praise the Maxima, nothing can beat it.
We both autocross for a hobbie, and Shing actually road races alot more than me, he knows what he is talking about.
#16
Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
Cool rock well lets take some "auto statistics form Motor Trend on each Car in the 600 foot slalom.
Motor Trend
May 2001 issue for the TLS= 61.2 mph in 600 foot slalom
April 1997 issue for 4th gen 97 Max=65.9 mph
July 1999 issue 5th gen 00 Max= 62.0 mph
June 2000 issue 00 TL= 62.5mph
Feb 1995 issue 95 Max= 65.1 mph
So they seem to be able to weave it around the cones faster than a TLS despite the beam.
In all publications I have seen the 4th gen Max has outslalomed the TLS, my 1997SE didnot have alot of Body Roll and I could manuever it better than the TLS people knock Maximas because of the beam but the truth is they handle well for a Mid size car.
Cool rock well lets take some "auto statistics form Motor Trend on each Car in the 600 foot slalom.
Motor Trend
May 2001 issue for the TLS= 61.2 mph in 600 foot slalom
April 1997 issue for 4th gen 97 Max=65.9 mph
July 1999 issue 5th gen 00 Max= 62.0 mph
June 2000 issue 00 TL= 62.5mph
Feb 1995 issue 95 Max= 65.1 mph
So they seem to be able to weave it around the cones faster than a TLS despite the beam.
In all publications I have seen the 4th gen Max has outslalomed the TLS, my 1997SE didnot have alot of Body Roll and I could manuever it better than the TLS people knock Maximas because of the beam but the truth is they handle well for a Mid size car.
The TL-S handles better than a Maxima, yes not by much but it does. The CL-S handles better than both.
#17
Originally posted by EZZ
Actually, the TLS produces about 200 hp to the wheels and a 4th gen about 150. It isn't 70 but it's pretty significant. I think the TLS will win. It takes a GREAT driver to get in the high 14s with the 4th gen Max and thats only if the weather conditions are good. TLS seem to average 15.0 and with only a GOOD driver will hit high 14s.
Actually, the TLS produces about 200 hp to the wheels and a 4th gen about 150. It isn't 70 but it's pretty significant. I think the TLS will win. It takes a GREAT driver to get in the high 14s with the 4th gen Max and thats only if the weather conditions are good. TLS seem to average 15.0 and with only a GOOD driver will hit high 14s.
I also think its fair to say...
weather conditions will have an equal effect on both cars.
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Originally posted by SilverBulletCLS
Slalom speed means jack, and so does G's. Lots of different conditions can change that, called tire pressures, better tires on one car than the other, lighter the car the more tossible it is, the more the car LEANS the easier it is to toss between the cones (Maxima).
The TL-S handles better than a Maxima, yes not by much but it does. The CL-S handles better than both.
Slalom speed means jack, and so does G's. Lots of different conditions can change that, called tire pressures, better tires on one car than the other, lighter the car the more tossible it is, the more the car LEANS the easier it is to toss between the cones (Maxima).
The TL-S handles better than a Maxima, yes not by much but it does. The CL-S handles better than both.
#20
I've also had a 4th gen and 5th gen Max. The TLS DOES IN FACT handle better than both in the REAL world. The mini van rear on the Maxima only came "close" in the 5th gen, forget about the 4th (had a 1996) and that is only on a perfectly smooth road. If there was bumps, the ride is very choppy and the rear is not as controlled as in the TL-S. Even Nissan knows this, and that is why the new Altima doesn't have its beam. I mean, if its just as good if not better, cheaper and saves packaging space on the car, why don’t they plan on keeping it? Simple, because consumers don’t want it in a car of that price and market, and its not superior in design.
I had an addco rear sway bar and H&R springs on the Maxima as well as a FSTB, and still before and after my vote goes to the TL-S. I'm a Nissan fan, and have no reason to be biased.
You don't want to ask anyone else because you know they will say what is true. If more people disagree than agree with you, maybe your wrong? Just because you own the cars doesn’t mean everyone else that disagrees is invalid in their understanding of handling dynamics, including other people like myself that have owned the same cars and can make a fair and balanced comparison?
Your butt G meter must be way off? I've even talked to maxima.org members that agree that the 5th gen is at best on par with the TL-S on perfect track condition surfaces, but does not handle real roads and imperfections as well as the TL-S, and that the 5th gen and TL-S both handle better than the 4th gen. Most Maxima owners can’t wait for the return of the independent rear, and many didn’t like that they did away with it after the third gen in the first place.
Simple published numbers show they are close under test circumstances anyhow, so to say the Maxima handles a lot or even a little better is a fallacy. If you look, they even said a regular TL handles better than the TL-S wish is also not true. You can't use those numbers unless they were all the same day, under the same conditions by the same driver. Even then there will be a small % or error, but not as huge as pulling the old "mag times" trick form different years and drivers.
On top of all this, the biggest hold back on the TL-S’ handling is just the poor choice of tires and rims size. Just changing those out and don’t even mention Comptech upgraded sways, and the Maxima will be seeing dual tips and an Acura badge all day long in any conditions for handling, all while not giving its passengers a jarring ride unlike in the SE Maxima over ...yes, little bumps and large alike, and forget speed bumps in the “REAL” world.
Sure the Maxima can be upgraded as well, but just a tire change won’t make such a big difference on the Maxima as in the TL-S because they use more of a performance oriented tire and size in the first place, and have fun bolting on the independent rear to the Maxima to see any real improvements in ride with your upgraded handling, as when the Maxima is upgraded for handling, the ride quality really goes down the drain even more so because of the design your working with. Any advantages, and they are very very slim to begin with if even there, that the maxima has in handling, is only because Acura has a history of under tiring (is that a word) their cars, but the car itself has a much better setup.
I had an addco rear sway bar and H&R springs on the Maxima as well as a FSTB, and still before and after my vote goes to the TL-S. I'm a Nissan fan, and have no reason to be biased.
You don't want to ask anyone else because you know they will say what is true. If more people disagree than agree with you, maybe your wrong? Just because you own the cars doesn’t mean everyone else that disagrees is invalid in their understanding of handling dynamics, including other people like myself that have owned the same cars and can make a fair and balanced comparison?
Your butt G meter must be way off? I've even talked to maxima.org members that agree that the 5th gen is at best on par with the TL-S on perfect track condition surfaces, but does not handle real roads and imperfections as well as the TL-S, and that the 5th gen and TL-S both handle better than the 4th gen. Most Maxima owners can’t wait for the return of the independent rear, and many didn’t like that they did away with it after the third gen in the first place.
Simple published numbers show they are close under test circumstances anyhow, so to say the Maxima handles a lot or even a little better is a fallacy. If you look, they even said a regular TL handles better than the TL-S wish is also not true. You can't use those numbers unless they were all the same day, under the same conditions by the same driver. Even then there will be a small % or error, but not as huge as pulling the old "mag times" trick form different years and drivers.
On top of all this, the biggest hold back on the TL-S’ handling is just the poor choice of tires and rims size. Just changing those out and don’t even mention Comptech upgraded sways, and the Maxima will be seeing dual tips and an Acura badge all day long in any conditions for handling, all while not giving its passengers a jarring ride unlike in the SE Maxima over ...yes, little bumps and large alike, and forget speed bumps in the “REAL” world.
Sure the Maxima can be upgraded as well, but just a tire change won’t make such a big difference on the Maxima as in the TL-S because they use more of a performance oriented tire and size in the first place, and have fun bolting on the independent rear to the Maxima to see any real improvements in ride with your upgraded handling, as when the Maxima is upgraded for handling, the ride quality really goes down the drain even more so because of the design your working with. Any advantages, and they are very very slim to begin with if even there, that the maxima has in handling, is only because Acura has a history of under tiring (is that a word) their cars, but the car itself has a much better setup.
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Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
Nope TLS doesnot handle better than the Max in the real world, not at all I dont need to ask them anything I have both TLS and 5th Gen Max and had a 4th gen.
Nope TLS doesnot handle better than the Max in the real world, not at all I dont need to ask them anything I have both TLS and 5th Gen Max and had a 4th gen.
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Originally posted by Speedy3.2CL-S
Okay, whatever you say stupid.
Okay, whatever you say stupid.
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Originally posted by MedicSonic
Is there some reason why you have to insult someone that has a different opinion than yours? Sad...
Is there some reason why you have to insult someone that has a different opinion than yours? Sad...
#27
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Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
I will leave the ignorance/ immaturity to you Russ just like you where in the Max Org, have a good day! I was brought up better than that!
I will leave the ignorance/ immaturity to you Russ just like you where in the Max Org, have a good day! I was brought up better than that!
#28
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Originally posted by Speedy3.2CL-S
OH, wow, now I am immature just because we know which car handles right and you guys hate being proven wrong. Wonder why .org is always known for idiots. hmmm.
OH, wow, now I am immature just because we know which car handles right and you guys hate being proven wrong. Wonder why .org is always known for idiots. hmmm.
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Originally posted by Monte TLS,MAX
Who cares Russ, but you dont see no one calling anyone stupid because of a difference of opinion in any of the forums but you, by the way this is a TLS forum not CLS. You must have been one of those IDIOTS because you where their for years and got into with MANY people because you thought your opinion was correct no matter what NOT! Anyway I am not going to waste any more of my time with you once you own a" TLS" and grow up and respect that people have differences of opinions on things than things might change.
Who cares Russ, but you dont see no one calling anyone stupid because of a difference of opinion in any of the forums but you, by the way this is a TLS forum not CLS. You must have been one of those IDIOTS because you where their for years and got into with MANY people because you thought your opinion was correct no matter what NOT! Anyway I am not going to waste any more of my time with you once you own a" TLS" and grow up and respect that people have differences of opinions on things than things might change.
It's the same car, I am more wanted than you. It seems alot of people in here are disagreeing with you anyways. Not wasting my time with your sorry ass anymore.
Go support your .org maxima guys, instead of trying to ditch the TL or CL
#32
Originally posted by juniorbean
c'mon guys... you're all wanted here, but there's no excuse for personal attacks....
can't we all just get along...
c'mon guys... you're all wanted here, but there's no excuse for personal attacks....
can't we all just get along...
#33
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Originally posted by MedicSonic
Sure, but Russ has some personal issues. He's known all over the internet for being 'Russ'. Hell when he owned his Maxima, he singlehandedly made the car one of the most hated on all the car boards.
Sure, but Russ has some personal issues. He's known all over the internet for being 'Russ'. Hell when he owned his Maxima, he singlehandedly made the car one of the most hated on all the car boards.
Anyway, I'll leave this open if you guys still want to carry on this conversation, but if it continues along the lines that it is.... it will be closed....
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Originally posted by MedicSonic
Sure, but Russ has some personal issues. He's known all over the internet for being 'Russ'. Hell when he owned his Maxima, he singlehandedly made the car one of the most hated on all the car boards.
Sure, but Russ has some personal issues. He's known all over the internet for being 'Russ'. Hell when he owned his Maxima, he singlehandedly made the car one of the most hated on all the car boards.
#35
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Originally posted by Speedy3.2CL-S
Okay, whatever you say stupid.
Okay, whatever you say stupid.
Originally posted by Speedy3.2CL-S
Yea, he is wrong...so I can say what I want. Got a problem with that?
Yea, he is wrong...so I can say what I want. Got a problem with that?
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