broly

Hi guys,

so I've seen some sellers offer a 2.90 DVD that allegedly works for the 2001-2003 TL/CL and is for North America.

it is the black dvd, which i think is right.

has anyone even bothered to update their navigation to the latest dvd and see if it has added support for canada?

i understand that older posts have stated there were no maps available for canada, but i'm curious about the DVDs that came out in 2011 because they may have added support.

nothing on the boards has really addressed this question so i am hoping someone could share their experience.

thanks.

broly

bump

broly

bump again (sorry!)

does anyone know if the hard-drive based navigation had canadian maps support at all? i was speaking with a fellow who has a CL who stated his friend had this version and it did have canadian maps (albeit poor ones).

SuperGreg

Hey man, I can check in my car. I have the latest version of the DVD that was available before they stopped making them, so I assume it's the version you're talking about but I could double check. Does your version show anything at all in Canada, or is it just limited? I drove to Canada once and I seem to remember it working, but that was a while ago.

broly

i would appreciate that.

i don't have navigation at this time. i am debating doing the conversion for my own fun, but the maps are a real sticking point.

i managed to find someone on these forums who said the hard drive version *does* have maps for canada, so i am a bit shocked the DVD does not (many say this).

i do not know the last version of DVD that was released. i thought that they still periodically release updated DVDs, or did that stop a few years ago? even then: a 2011ish DVD update may have it, but i know that when people were talking about this 10 years ago it did *not*.

the hard drive version of navigation has me interested for many reasons (aside from native canada support). hoping i can pull the screen, hdd, bracket, bezel and gps for the cheap tomorrow (if it's not gone already like the damn struts :P).
may have to wait a bit for the wiring harnesses to become more reasonably priced to actually do the conversion (not interested in doing all the splicing stuff. would rather re-run the dash and left-side cables).

thanks man.

SuperGreg

They only support the DVDs for something like 10 years, I was surprised when I went to get the latest one a few years ago and found they don't release them any more. As far as I know, with the hard drive version you can only load certain regions at a time, not the whole map set (but I may be wrong).

broly

that's correct. i believe canada was included on the hard drive and there seem to be some very interesting hacking things people can do, and it seems sky is the limit for those with more computer proficiency since this was an early navigation unit.

managed to pull the entire thing. was going to ask you, greg, if you know about the unlock code. can dealers provide this code if you provide the serial for the screen (similar to how they can provide the code if you provide the radio's serial number?)

broly

lol went back today to buy the stuff and already the climate module was missing. still a steal of a deal for the screen/bracket/hdd/hddbracket/gpsmodule for 31 bucks.

now for those wiring harnesses xD

also: is it easy to replace the tl's screen "cover"? wonder if anyone has done that.

SuperGreg

OK just checked, it looks like the roads stop at the border. Also, there is no way to enter a Canadian address in the search. The DVD I have is labelled "BM510AO Ver.2.A0"... (c) 2012 Honda, (c) 2011 NAVTEQ.

broly

figured.

that's really new dvd considering everything. wonder how much of this "no canada" is due to map size. the dvd is "north america" after all. hope i find the parts i need soon so i can start mucking around with the hdd.

MidoriTL

I know it's not oem but just go with a aftermarket unit, way better navigation abilities and will have most if not all roads/areas. I have the factory navi in mine but never use it lol always using my phone.

broly

for actual navigation, you would be right.

however my reasons for wanting the hard drive unit pertain to the computer hardware it uses. specifically it uses a Hitachi SH-4 with windows CE (same platform as the sega dreamcast).

i suspect that, in fall 1998/1999 when this model was available with navigation in canada, that the harddrive had some raw "boot code" in order for the maps software to communicate with windows CE and boot up the nav software.

since it was 1998/1999, the manufacturers naively assumed no one would have the courage to rip the data from the hard disk out of concern for their new vehicle's operation.

• for those who may have ventured into the unit and pulled the stuff, i would not doubt that what caused the demise of sega (piracy of dreamcast games) would be on the disk (the raw bootloader that was used to create the 'boot disk' [avoided a modchip] that allowed people to burn games from home).
• the GD Rom technology in the dreamcast was supposed to prevent piracy, however the disk is very unusual. the perceptible 'written parts' of the disk were actually on the perceptible 'unwritten part' with the written part acting as a sort of "signature":
• 
  • i think the software on this hdd, specifically the part concerning the bootup of the navigation software, contained some generic bootloader code (to talk to the hitach sh4 processor shared by the dreamcast and nav system) that enabled the boot disk to essentially mimic the gd-rom's initial handshake.

from what i understand, navigation was not offered on canadian 3.2TL models after 1999. on june 21 2000, the dreamcast was hacked [i believe this may still have been in the 99 acura tl model year production. probably tail end]

• this would fit with the dvd-rom not being of sufficient size to accommodate additional maps outside of the united states (for this specific platform), and the move to a DVD-based navigation unit (out of the realisation that the hard drive contained code that was lifted and used to essentially destroy sega)

now, aside from the nerdiness about a decent speed RISC proc in an automobile with a hard drive, i think there is a lot of room here for a computer person.
my goals will be to investigate the platform, attempt to migrate newer map DVDs onto the hard drive, back up the original stuff, and see if i can even update the hardware here and there (with the appropriate software modifications).

even if i can't upgrade the CPU/ram, i think 200 MHz should be enough for maps software. exciting stuff imo.

SuperGreg

Keep us updated

thoiboi

Sounds like a lot of headache for old dated software and hardware. I would think putting in a Nexus 7 and utilizing Google Maps or Waze would be far superior than trying to reverse engineer 17 year old technology.


I'm sure you can, but why?!

broly

my main reason for the unit is not exquisite navigation, though i will mention that many of the roads i use have existed since this navigation came out.

the hard drive will enable customisation that the dvd rom cannot really match.

this thing is wired into the car (both dash harnesses [instrument and dash] plus left bottom side) in such a way that i am interested in what i can get from the sensors when using different software that works on RISC processors (i.e. navigation unit).

while i commend the person who did the DIY non-navi to navi, he essentially jerry-rigs the nav unit using a ghetto version of the left side wire harness and proceeds to splice his own dash connectors to "make it fit".

i am taking a different, admittedly slight more ambitious, approach.

the map software, i suspect, can be updated but it will take some computer skills. of course this update wouldn't be official, but rather migrating some of the overlays from newer dvds into the folder (on the hard drive) responsible for the respective area.

the wiring of this thing so deeply into the car has me really curious about if it can do more than just navigation (with some computer skills, of course). i suspect the legit wiring harness connectors will relay more information than simple maps, but will require some skill to decode/pull (maybe assembly).

thoiboi

You're describing things that can already be done with a Nexus 7, OBD2 bluetooth adapter, and Torque app.


but hey, don't let me prevent you from re-inventing the wheel.

broly

not that kind of sensor feedback, haha. i mean, the way the harnesses are connected, i am hoping for raw output that your reocmmendation can't get (or, shouldn't be able to).
jerry-rigged navs cannot get the full output from the wiring harness unless they're somehow connected properly (maybe you hooked up your phone using some exotic wiring, very possible).

i do appreciate what you are saying; namely that if i want navigation and/or some features, i could go the route you're recommending. i am however seeking something with a pure-stock look, and functions 100% with the wiring harness (like the hard drive nav unit).

in 99, getting this car with navigation in canada would have been expensive and literally a vehicle of the 0.0001%. only the "initiated" in canada would spend this kind of money on a "honda", which meant they'd have higher expectations.

• even when my father purchased our 2002 TL type S, it was acura's top end car without navigation. for a 99 with navigation 2 years earlier, it would have been much more rare than the TL-S to TL proportion.

just knowing the canadians who had the privilege/fortune of being able to get a TL brand new (Type S, non type S, etc), they really love the car. we still have a neighbour who has their 2003 and is also a first owner.

• i got really lucky getting this unit from the car. it is for sure a first owner vehicle and it seems it was salvaged due to the airbags (seems it had the same inflation issue plaguing later generations, even though it wasn't included in the recall).
  • even scored the sticker for the unlock code.

given the good fortune of me being able to get this unit, since the buck's auto owner trotted it out (it wasn't there on the first day i went, only the second), i feel i need to see what this is all about.

i can't escape my belief the honda team had for this car (luxury performance), combined with my experience of how easy it is to work on (2 screws for the door, 2 screws for the dash, literally unscrew/pop-off-in-some-order), that they envisioned this car one day being something more than what it is (transmission issues were a large cause of that imo).
i am hoping that, this vision of theirs (evidence by putting a sega dreamcast navigation unit in a vehicle at the same time this game console hardware was considered cutting edge), extended to using the navigation unit for more exotic purposes.

the 99 units had some sensors that the later navigation units did not, which suggests they did have a lofty vision that fell abysmally short (in no small part due to the dreamcast hack, in my opinion), so i want to see if this avenue can still be explored.

i don't know why you guys find the stock navigation so ugly or useless, i find it quite good looking tbh heh. to put into perspective that it was a touch screen 200 MHz Hitachi SH-4 with 32mb memory nad a hard drive, that's nothing to sneeze at man.

• heck, my computer was P1 200 Mhz with 32mb EDO ram and 2GB until my parents let me build one in early 2000!
  • hoping that since the software is compiled for a R[educed]ISC processor (intels are C[omplex]ISC), that i can *code* some things and get it to run with the nav software, but we'll see. probably going to upgrade the HDD to SSD too just for fun (won't need to be that big)

thoiboi