etxxz

To get back at old times were most of the posts were usefull

This thread is meant for people who know how these and can teach us something. I know nothing about cams, so no flaming etxx

Question 1: What do they do and How do they work?
Question 2: How would a cam gear upgrade affect performance? -size/weigh/thickness- (if the camshaft cant turn faster than its supposed to; are they even linked in this sense?)

Question 3: not really a question. I researched a bit and found that the J30 camgears (AV6=ACCORD V6) were the same as the J32 CL-S/TL-S cam gears ~ upgrade for TL-p...only diff being a little black lip. Would it work on a J32 engine? *lip is for revs, otherwise they'd be identical
ie


Dont limit yourself to this questions though, lets get as much info as possible in this thread...Also, for tl-p owners, their TB is 54mm vs our 48mm and its a perfect fit...-S is 64mm!!

Thanks in advance, i'll + rep bombard you ass!!

btw* yes, i'm looking to upgrade my '99, i know i can get -S cams from a member who can get em for good price, i dont disclose his ID 'cause i dont know if he wants it. I just happened to find a guy with accord cams i can have for a sick price!

patrick

I would personally get the TL-S cams...we know that it fits the TL-P right? Besides, I've heard some '98 - '02 AV6 guys are upgrading their cams to Type-S cams. So why would you want to go the other way?

When you say their TB is 54mm, are you referring to which gen AV6? The 98-02 gen AV6 or the 03+ AV6?

I'll leave the answers for #1 & 2 to the tech gurus here.

JimmyTLS

Camshafts control you valve timing and lift and durations. When looking at a camshaft, you will see a series of lobes. These lobes control the lift, sequence, and the duration of how each valve open; intake and exhuast valves. With a more aggressive camshaft profile, you could get a higher lift and duration of the valves, letting more air in and out of the motor, increasing power. This is a really general explanation but I didnt want to get too technical. But with this explanation, do not assume that the higher the lift and duration you have, the more power you will get. There is a certain combination of lift vs. duration of the valves that will yield power and torque. Hope that helped.

Edward'TLS

You'll also need a PCM with revised programming to take advantage of the wilder-timing camshafts. Without the matched ignition timing and fuel delivery timing, the new camshafts are like fish without fins.

ncxvtguy83

iTrader: (1)

I think he was referring to the cam gears on the 98-02 AV6 and TL-S were the same, not the camshafts.

patrick

Thx for the correction.

JimmyTLS

Ohhh cam gears!! Well I know that cam gears affect ur engine timing. Adjustable cam gears give you the option of adjusting your timing. Unfortunately, thats an area in which I am a newb at as well. Sorry.

ncxvtguy83

iTrader: (1)

I think he was mostly talking about cam gears, but not limited to just cam gears. Just anything that was a good upgrade for our engines internally for the TL-P. To my knowledge, I don't think there are adjustable cam gears for our TL's. I may be wrong.

etxxz

Yes, yes, cam gears...and this is precicelly what i wanna change
____________________________
____________________________
I know some stuff on camshafts from "howstuffworks.com" GREAT SITE FOR EVERYTHING!
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm

If interested in the contents of thie thread, i suggest you start by ^^ link.

Now, we (I) wanna know HOW the cam GEAR works with the camshaft, how it contols/helps/affect, and what does an "upgrade" in cam gears mean? (physically, tunning?...or however)

^^ if this sounds confusing, just talk about cams or add onto other people's posts, that'll do the trick

i'd also like to know if these accord cams are suited to put into da Tl...i dont want anyone blowing up 'causa me.

Thanks again


***BTW!! that link has a nice visual/explanation of Honda's Very Tall Engine Cooling!! (VTEC baby)

lbbrando

I think basiclly with adjustable cam gears you want to advance the intake and retard the exhaust. I don't know how much for each but 1-2 degrees is pretty normal.

etxxz

Ohhh, so Cam gears in this case would control the amount of intake/exhaust time by making the cam bigger? or smaller?

^^but then, how would you control intake time and exhaust timing if the camshaft cant be changed?

Tunaboy

Yea I'm a newb on cams as well, but I've got a set of Type-S cams I have sitting around. The only problem is the installation runs about $500 bucks.

Edward`TLS, are you sure the ECU needs to be rerouted after installation? Everyone I talked to to try and get these put in never mentioned it.

elah

if we had DOHC

on DOHC honda cars you have 2 cam shafts
1. ingnition this is what lets the air and fuel in
2 exhaust which lets the burnt air/fuel mixture out

on our SOHC engines we have one cam that does both things. DOHC has all the advantages over SOHC in honda engines SOHC is one rod that controls both things meaning if you want to tweak it for example. on a modified dohc engine to get nice power and torque you advance the ingition cam 1 or 2 degrees and retard the exhaust 1-2 degress this allows the air fuel mixture to go in quicker, detonate it keep it in the engine for a amount of time and push the piston down all the way giving you the nice torque.

SOHC engines since u only got one cam if you advance it you also advance the exhaust so u lose torque but gain hp great if your engine is chipped to rev high

on our engines tl-p or s our reline is at 6.9k not high enough to see any benifits from advancing the cam

also forgot to mention Vtec on dohc engines manipulates both intake and exhaust to produce a nice tq figure low engine and rip it up with high hp high end

sohc vtec well only modifies the ingition and the exhaust stays the same, in high rpms that can cause a loss of hp since the engine needs to get rid of the burnt fuel/air as quick as possible.


basically IMO adjustable cam gears are a waste on our cars, if we had DOHC its another story. what would do good for our cars is actual camshafts that would optimise our engines for power not efficancy, freeing up a good 20-30 hp or even more on our engines.

etxxz

son...our cars are DOHC vtec engines...were did you get the idea we had f*kn pushrod engines? Tl-p redline at 6200...-S at 6900. Just by this and most of your post turned backwards you should understand better whats going on...repost and add some tru interesting info please.

Edward'TLS

The ECU (PCM) doesn't need to be rerouted. It needs a need a new software with revised ignition and fuel injection maps. However, you may get some gain with just the Type-S cams installed. But you won't get the maximum gain without the ECU upgrade.

The new cams only change the valve timings, such as open and close durations. As a result, ignition and fuel delivery timings must also be changed to match the new valve timings in order to take advantage of the new cams. The ECU is the only place that outputs all the cylinder igniton and fuel injection signals.

ndawood

actually they are SOHC vtec engines.....

fsttyms1

you are correct except for the sohc and dohc. the TL-P and TL-S are SOHC not DOHC

patrick

To add a comment to Edward's post: I spoke with A&J Racing, and they have modified a few AV6 with Type-S cams & Apexi A/F controller. Results were quite good, providing 10-15 whp street tuned. Expect a few more whp if dyno tuned. So TL-S cam mod for our TL-P should yield similar gains.

ECU upgrade will be difficult - I don't think there is anything available unless it is custom?

ou sig

wow you are pretty confident while being wrong...we have SOHC not DOHC

etxxz

haha...learned the hard way i guess...hmmm, for some reason i thought we had 2 camshafts on each side, 4cams total...2 regular 2 vtec...haha now it makes sense. Sry Elah.

anyhows...we never cleared up what is the cam gear's purpose. Q 1, 2 ~ 3
and if the AV6 cams = -S cams ~> tl-p

etxxz

haha...learned the hard way i guess...hmmm, for some reason i thought we had 2 camshafts on each side, 4cams total...2 regular 2 vtec...haha now it makes sense. Sry Elah.

anyhows...we never cleared up what is the cam gear's purpose. Q 1, 2 ~ 3
and if the AV6 cams = -S cams ~> tl-p

elah

etxx:
1.with the timing belt cam gears are what spin the cams shafts to control the valves from the crankshaft.
2.adjustable cam gears lets you retard or advance the camsshafts
---what that does is explained in my first post


3.technical differances between tl-p vs tl-s i wouldnt know. since the tl-s has a dual stage intake manifold i would believe the inlet valves would open/close quicker then tl-p to provide more tq. and on vtec well quite the opposite it would remain open for more time to get more air in. i could be wrong but this is what ive learn first hand basis with a good old B16 engine

fsttyms1

1 cam right in the middle

etxxz

i can see it
hehe, j/k...what engine is that?
very interesting!!

fsttyms1

that is teh TL with the valve cover off

etxxz

hmmm, very cool. you must have some big hairy cojones to do that
so, were would the vtec camshaft be?

thankks!

------

Back to Question 3...would the Accord cams i described above have the same effect on a TL-p engine as would the CL-S/TL-S cam gears? (AV6 cams same as -S exept for the rubber lip) or would it be dangerous?

if not, i'ma spend the $250 (vs 55shipped for AV6's) as a christmas gift for my car...ehhhmm...for me


oh, i'd fill you up with rep points, but i gotta spread more b4 i can give u again!

unlemming

Would the type-s cam work in a TL-P without the apexi? Has anyone swapped a CL/TL with the type-s internals? Great thread btw..though still nothing conclusive

ncxvtguy83

iTrader: (1)

I know you just gave us a great picture which obviously shows 1 camshaft. What I don't understand is why the Acura parts list site indicates there are 2 camshafts. First one is Front and the second one is Rear. I guess their site is faulty... Since our engines are SOHC>Single over head camshaft. Can only be one...

fsttyms1

front bank of cylinders and rear bank of cylinders maybe?

fsttyms1

tha cams are are able to be swapped, but to gain full potential out of them you are going to need the engine to rev higher and have the type-s intake
as for any gains with just them???

etxxz

someone might have swapped cams in a-tl. There was a thread by BIGMAN, but nothing conclusive either. Like FSTY said, we'd need to rev higher for full potential but hey, redlinin' 700less its not that bad.

I know a solution to make it work withought the Vafc...unless can reprogram the ecu or watever, in which case you can just tune your engine, eat a shit lotta gas, remove the governor and get all this extra power without the need for cams. I got a Vafc so no prob there.

Q3.2 again...would those AV6 cams i showed in the first thread work?

patrick

As fsttyms1 said, the TL-S cam will work in a TL-P without the Apexi. But to gain the full potential of this mod, you do need a air/fuel controller like the Apexi with dyno tuning. Running TL-S cam without the Apexi may give you problems, or so I heard (not 100% sure about this). Anyone know?