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I do not know where to go from here. I have a 2003 acura tl base. I've done an engine swap twice. The first time, the engine I purchased had a blown head gasket. I've just swapped with a new engine. At first, for the first 30 seconds, everything seemed fine. Then at about the 1 minute mark, white smoke started coming out of the tail pipe with excessive condensation at the tail pipe. I've replaced the gaskets front and rear gaskets though they dont have anything to do with white smoke coming out of the tail pipe. I just replaced the upper and lower intake manifold gaskets in the hopes that there might be an interior leak from the lower gasket that could be causing the issue. I can't see how I've had two bad motors in a row so is there something that I am missing?
I didn't let the motor heat up nor have I allowed it to come close to overheating so I don't see how it is possible that I caused the head gasket to warp or block to crack. all fluids are filled. I flushed out the radiator three times. I'm considering replacing it in the hope that that could be the issue but believe that to be a dead end. Is there ANYTHING else that this issue could be? Do I just need to finish that last steps to the swap to tune the car, etc? Please advise...
Things that I noticed in addition to the smoke coming out of the car was that the car started smoothly at first, but after the 2nd or 3rd time I started the engine, it began running a bit rough as if not running on all cylinders or timing off and idling a bit higher than when first I started the engine. Again, I haven't allowed the engine to run for more than 90 seconds at a time and am being extremely cautious. Also, smoke is coming out of where the exhaust attaches to the motor on the front of the car so the issue seems to be isolated to the front cylinders.
The original cause of the engine issue was that the people didn't have a radiator cap on the car and it overheated thus blowing the head gasket.
I plan on doing a compression test. If that doesn't work, I'm testing the gasket for warping.
it was probably run without a rad cap as an old school attempt to keep the temp down- or loss of coolant thru water pump weep hole or radiator leak to a minimum
Unfortunately that doesn't do anything for engine cooling!
the current engine was the one described? and has new head gaskets-new timing belt and water pump installed on motor ?
Pull ALL the spark plugs and ignition fuse- crank engine over- coolant spitting out spark plug holes is bad~
exhaust leak at manifold?- that's not helping anything!
possible a camshaft is off a tooth? they do rotate slightly when removed for timing belt job
the TL engine does not like an overheat- will blow the gasket but often warps the head
On adding coolant- are you able to fully fill the system??
or engine is run 1 minute and shut off due to exhaust smoke?
so the engine block may still have very little coolant in it?
Have you been able to run it long enough to burp the system?
The engine that I am having issues with is the newly installed engine. I did not install new head gaskets, but did install other gaskets including oil pan, front and rear gaskets, upper and lower IM gaskets, seals, etc. Water pump and Timing belt were replaced as the warranty required it. I wonder if I should have left the oem water pump in if that is the culprit...if inefficient water flow is getting to the motor, that could be a potential cause. What would be diagnostic checks to make to see if the new water pump is bad?
I haven't run it long enough to burp the system. I noticed excessive white smoke beginning to exit the tail pipe and shut off the engine immediately. I was in the process of burping the radiator when this occurred.
I would remove a plug and check for water/moisture, before I try to restart. It does sound eerily suspicious.
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2003 TL-S w/ Nav
I used to be snow white...but I drifted.
I'll remove the plug too. Are you thinking outside of warped cylinder...something else?
ok...the Throttle Body hose is connected properly on both ends and there are no signs of coolant on the plugs. Any other ideas? I'm leaning towards a bad water pump, but it's possible it's something else. It's still not explaining exactly why there is white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. I also don't know if there is a warped head. I was hoping, as I said, that changing the upper and lower IM gaskets would be the cause, but the smoke still came out. Then again, I didn't wait very long to see if it got getter after a minute...I just turned it off after 15-20 seconds.
A water pump should not cause smoke to come out of the exhaust nor intake gaskets on this engine.
Unbolt the top egr plate and see if theres coolant there, If you see it there coolant is being pulled into the cylinders via the TB.
It could be residual stuff left in the exhaust system from the last engine.
Ya may wanna try performing a compression check and leakdown test on the cylinders.
How does the coolant level appear within the rad ? Any discoloration ? Any signs of oil being contaminated ?
After thoroughly checking all the basic stuff, TB intake and coolant lines......try to properly purge the cooling system of any air pockets, if all else has failed. Read & clear codes, then recheck.
he hasn't been able to burp coolant system yet as engine is shut off within 1 minute due to exhaust smoke raising concerns
compression ck would be the obvious thing to me- remove all spark plugs and pull the ignition and fuel pump fuse- use jumper battery or charger to maintain battery level and constant spin speed of engine
AND
I agree it could be leftover coolant in the exhaust from past engine blown head gasket
ok...the Throttle Body hose is connected properly on both ends and there are no signs of coolant on the plugs. Any other ideas? I'm leaning towards a bad water pump, but it's possible it's something else. It's still not explaining exactly why there is white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. I also don't know if there is a warped head. I was hoping, as I said, that changing the upper and lower IM gaskets would be the cause, but the smoke still came out. Then again, I didn't wait very long to see if it got getter after a minute...I just turned it off after 15-20 seconds.
Any other ideas?
There are multiple connections to the TB. Some are vacuum, some are coolant. Are you SURE they are correct?
Your water pump isnt causing it. Its not in direct contact with anything what would suck it into the motor. Changing upper and lower IM gaskets would do nothing either as NO coolant passes thru them.
Are you going low on coolant? Any CEL? Start the car up and let it run a little bit (as long as it runs normal). Moisture will build up inside a motor sitting, and in your exhaust. See if it goes away. Also, depending on your location it is winter and colder out. You will see white smoke (condensation/vapor) coming out of an exhaust system, especially upon first start up.
Ya may wanna try performing a compression check and leakdown test on the cylinders.
How does the coolant level appear within the rad ? Any discoloration ? Any signs of oil being contaminated ?
After thoroughly checking all the basic stuff, TB intake and coolant lines......try to properly purge the cooling system of any air pockets, if all else has failed. Read & clear codes, then recheck.
Coolant is tapped off. No signs of oil contamination. I will thoroughly check to ensure I didn't misconnect any of the hoses. I don't believe that I did, but I'm not taking anything for granted.
he hasn't been able to burp coolant system yet as engine is shut off within 1 minute due to exhaust smoke raising concerns
compression ck would be the obvious thing to me- remove all spark plugs and pull the ignition and fuel pump fuse- use jumper battery or charger to maintain battery level and constant spin speed of engine
AND
I agree it could be leftover coolant in the exhaust from past engine blown head gasket
I'll do this tonight. I didn't think of leftover coolant in the exhaust from the previous engine. The first engine billowed smoke immediately upon starting. It was awful. It makes sense that there could be excessive coolant in the exhaust. My hesitancy in just completing the last few steps like relearning, burping, etc. is to make sure I don't have to do this a third time . The motor isn't yet running smoothly (likely need to tune it and take it thought the relearning pattern, but I'm not taking a chance at this time). It does idle fine without trying to compensate by great idle variability.
I think the best course of action is to be safe and do the compression check. I'm assuming the official acura manual that I have will tell me the specifics on total revolutions per cylinder. I skimmed over the compression test yesterday and I know it tells me that parameters for a good vs. bad result, but didn't read the details. I believe the Autozone compression kit rental will have what I need to do the test or do I need something special for a honda/acura engine?
Any CEL? Start the car up and let it run a little bit (as long as it runs normal). Moisture will build up inside a motor sitting, and in your exhaust. See if it goes away. Also, depending on your location it is winter and colder out. You will see white smoke (condensation/vapor) coming out of an exhaust system, especially upon first start up.
I'm assuming that CEL is coolant exhaust leak? No, none. Also, what is your definition of the engine running normally? When I increase rpms, it feels a bit off, but I haven't yet finished pcm idle learn.
The other red flag is that it looked like exhaust was exiting from the front where the exhaust connects to the front. Again, could be left over coolant, but a bit odd it's exiting from there.
It was in the 40s. Possible it was cold...I can test again. It seemed like the right exhaust was letting out more than the left.
I spoke with my ex-brother-in-law (ASE Cert Master Mechanic...like some of you I'm sure) and he's of the same opinion that the cause is likely coolant in the exhaust from the previous engine. I'm rechecking to verify I have all hoses connected correctly and then burping the system. Hopefully I'm not out another $500 and 20 hours of work on the car...
One more question: I'm leaning towards changing out the radiator just to eliminate that as the original cause. I believe I need the one without the sensor as I don't see one, but wanted to make sure I knew where ti was. The sensor, if it's on my base model 2003, would be on the bottom middle posterior (facing engine)
side of the radiator, correct?
If I were you after verifying all the hoses are properly installed just let it idle and see if it burns off then keep an eye on the coolant reservoir level, There could be coolant in the exhaust system as I mentioned before.
I'm assuming that CEL is coolant exhaust leak? No, none. Also, what is your definition of the engine running normally? When I increase rpms, it feels a bit off, but I haven't yet finished pcm idle learn.
The other red flag is that it looked like exhaust was exiting from the front where the exhaust connects to the front. Again, could be left over coolant, but a bit odd it's exiting from there.
It was in the 40s. Possible it was cold...I can test again. It seemed like the right exhaust was letting out more than the left.
CEL= Check Engine Light.
If exhaust is leaking up front, fix the exhaust leak.
If it was coming out more on one side than the other its most likely just moisture buildup in the muffler. We dont have dual exhaust so if there was an issue it would be coming out of both equally
I think U have the water bypass hose connected to the tb but I having difficulty in verifying that this is the case. I also think I have the hoses connected to the breather hoses connected incorrectly. I have a photo of the breather hose, etc. and where it's connected to.
coolant burping will take a while and requires more than just idle speed
the engine block is also empty- so opening its coolant block drain on rear might help
move some air out and coolant in
the radiator sensor for coolant temp to operate the main cooling fan ( the infamous failing `fan sensor A`)
located lower right rear corner of rad- not its center
99s that sensor is at thermostat, 00 and later on corner of rad
to clear ECU codes while diagnosing- pull/remove the CLOCK fuse on passenger side cabin fuse box, end of dash or in footwell
pop it out for a minute and reinsert that's the secret backup power to the ecu and forces a clear and reset/relearn-self test of all systems
example: moving a coil to find bad one- reset ecu after each move
the radiator sensor for coolant temp to operate the main cooling fan ( the infamous failing `fan sensor A`)
located lower right rear corner of rad- not its center
99s that sensor is at thermostat, 00 and later on corner of rad
That's what I thought, but I didn't want to assume anything.
The other end should go to the intake boot and nothing else.
Another place would be the Idle Air Control Valve, Did you ever take it apart ? if so the rubber gasket may have been damaged.
The other end should go to the intake boot and nothing else.
Another place would be the Idle Air Control Valve, Did you ever take it apart ? if so the rubber gasket may have been damaged.
No I didn't take it apart. I had to go coach soccer last night so I didn't get much time to work on the car. I did mix up a couple of hoses...didn't watch my video the second time and made a mistake. I'm hoping this is the only issue and believe it likely is. I'll post again this evening when I have time to test.
B is a vacuum hose and should not have coolant in it
The hose you're pointing at is at the wrong spot.
I found the video I created while disconnecting the hoses and the hose to which I am pointing is actually in the correct place. It's the hose connected with the breather pipe and attaches according to my video to what I'm pointing with my finger. Am I missing something? Also, I have the water bypass hose (one of them) connected to the connector on the TB pointing towards the battery.
B is a vacuum hose and should not have coolant in it
The hose you're pointing at is at the wrong spot.
I found the video I created while disconnecting the hoses and the hose to which I am pointing is actually in the correct place. It's the hose connected with the breather pipe and attaches accordign to my video what I'm pointing my finger. Am I missing something. Also, I have the water bypass hose (one of them) connected to the connector on the TB pointing towards the battery.
^^^ If ya can't seem to fully verify that all the hoses are in their correct locations, use the previous diagrams to get the "easy" ones on properly and then try temporarily plugging the questionable hoses off. This may allow you to run the motor up to operating temp and burn off any residual moisture within the exhaust. Then "burp" the coolant system of air. Check for CEL codes.
Have ya checked the cylinder's compression yet ?
Have ya replaced the leaking exhaust gasket up front ?
Are ya sure that your video shows the various hose's orientation correctly ?
Sorry, just playing "devil's advocate" as it's hard for us to really know for sure. Good luck !!!
^^^ If ya can't seem to fully verify that all the hoses are in their correct locations, use the previous diagrams to get the "easy" ones on properly and then try temporarily plugging the questionable hoses off. This may allow you to run the motor up to operating temp and burn off any residual moisture within the exhaust. Then "burp" the coolant system of air. Check for CEL codes.
Have ya checked the cylinder's compression yet ?
Have ya replaced the leaking exhaust gasket up front ?
Are ya sure that your video shows the various hose's orientation correctly ?
Sorry, just playing "devil's advocate" as it's hard for us to really know for sure. Good luck !!!
Appreciate devil's advocate! I'm changing the exhaust gaskets tonight. I'm burping the system tomorrow instead of tonight. I believe my videos are showing things correctly, but I'm taking a lot of time tomorrow making sure I have it right. I'll post a video either here on on drop box and let you guys see what I have.
I think the white smoke is from the 02 sensors not working and that the coolant from teh previous engine destroyed the sensors. I burped the radiator. The smoke continued but I noticed that I lost nearly 1/2 tank gas in 40 minute. I also smelled a strong scent of gas exiting the tail pipes. White smoke can also be excessive gas being pumped through the engine.
I have the tcs and check engine light on. I'm going to take the car down to have it scanned to see if I am correct. I'll also get a compression kit and play with this tomorrow. Hopefully I am on the right track. Wish me luck. If anyone else thinks differently, please let me know. Thanks!
^^^ If ya can't seem to fully verify that all the hoses are in their correct locations, use the previous diagrams to get the "easy" ones on properly and then try temporarily plugging the questionable hoses off. This may allow you to run the motor up to operating temp and burn off any residual moisture within the exhaust. Then "burp" the coolant system of air. Check for CEL codes.
Have ya checked the cylinder's compression yet ?
Have ya replaced the leaking exhaust gasket up front ?
Are ya sure that your video shows the various hose's orientation correctly ?
Sorry, just playing "devil's advocate" as it's hard for us to really know for sure. Good luck !!!
I verified that the hoses are correctly placed as i went to a dealership that had the same year/model. I looked and took pictures and I have the hoses placed correctly.
go buy a DENSO front O2 sensor and the tool to install it will make your life easier
that's the OE brand- sold everywhere and total plug and play- with reset of ECU via clo....yadayada
12-09-2014, 10:28 PM
. The motor isn't yet running smoothly (likely need to tune it and take it thought the relearning pattern, but I'm not taking a chance at this time). It does idle fine without trying to compensate by great idle variability.
