is300eater

Has anyone ever taken one on? Actually I've had... it was a covertible... and I think I surprised the guy... I can't say I beat him or can't say I lost, cause we hit a congested area... then a red light with cars in front of us... I had to turn and was already late for a client (and I was runnin' on fumes), so... that was the end of that....

Anyway, does anyone know what a typical M3 (again, that's last gen. pre-02' model) run? (0-60, and 1/4 mile)

KappaBoi

One of my friends owns a old M3 stick like a 98 and i wanted to run against him. well, we races three time and everytime that i ran against him i beat him by a car but i couldn't pull or anything all i could do was creep a lil by lil . he also had an intake and exhaust. but yea it was a really good race. Also i raced a new 2002 M3 and beat it by half a car and it was stock. i think i beat him because he didn't really know how to drive his car. he was just a stuck up rish azn guy who thought he was hard. he revved at me with his gf in the car and then laughed at me, i thinks thats pretty messed up but o wells, i beat him and i think he learned his lesson lol. also if u guys don't believe me i have a vid of me racing the old M3 and i had a friend in my car when i beat the M3 hhehe so yea, i'm happy and surprised that i beat them. those are the two fastest cars that i have beaten.

vandy786

Post the vid dude!

KappaBoi

aite i'll try, my friends lil brother taped it hopefully, i'll try to get it and post it, it might be kinda long and big but o wells hehe and yes i was street racing i'm sorry to whoever doesn't like street racers but the street was empty i promise, it was like at 2-3 in the morning if that makes u feel any better hehe =)

Ray_Khan

the 2002 M3 might have been a 330 with the M3 body work. Either that or the guy was an awful drive. M3's run high 12's/low 13's stock. You should have been seeing shrinking tail lights. I can't imagine this being a drivers race if it's a real M3.

As for the last gen (E36 M3), a good driver should beat you as well, but it wouldn't be a walk. They run mid to high 14's....a tad better than the TLS which I would say is high14's/low 15's on average. Definitetly close enough to call it a driver's race.

not sure what you have for mods, but if you beat them you beat them...good work....and I don't might a little street racing as long as it's "safe" like you said.

2K2SilverTL-S

My friend has a 98 M3 4-door Auto w/ an AC Schnitzer Exhaust, and I've won every race. It's pretty close till about 65 or so, but in 3rd gear I can always pull at least 1.5-2 carlengths on him.

The manual M3 models are quick, and I think it would be tough to beat one with a good driver behind the wheel of the bimmer.

However, if it's an Auto last gen M3, the TL-S is quicker!!

stiletto

LiQiCE

I got into a little highway race with an M3 on the NJ Turnpike one time when I was making the trip to my parent's house.

The M3 had 4 people in it and I was by myself, so there was an automatic disadvantage to him there. I think it was a 2002 M3, but I was surprised at how fast it walked away from me from 80+ ... However, there was one time where I was behind him doing 70 and the 'slow' car in front of us moved over. I immediately gunned it and so did he, and I was surprised that I was gaining on him ... Enough that I moved over into the middle lane and passed him! Obviously having 4 people in the car is what killed him. After we got up in speed again, he was able to walk away from me ...

Funny thing is that this BMW 328 Hatchback started to try to run with us too, and later a v6 Eclipse. Neither could hold a candle to either of our cars. The 328 thought he had 'beat' me when I had to move over to the right lane to exit though

r10apple

I'm not the best driver in the world, but I know what I'm doing. Likewise, I have a TL-S with some mods for god's sake, but it is pretty freakin' quick as I've dusted more than my fair share of Maximas, G35's, GTP's, Altimas etc. etc...More than my fair share of Bimmers, too...
However, I've been walked by M3's more than once and it is they who usually want to run. I try for the fun of it but they are freakin' fast as h=ll...
The older E36 with an auto may be sitting in my cross-hairs, or one with an idiot behind a stick, but that's about it...
It's like racing an AMG--looking at their headlights: Not happening...

Most excellent kill, but certainly, I wouldn't be hunting the propeller badge on a regular basis if I were you...

fastcarz3

my friend just bought an 02 m3 and just finished breakin it in. The TLS is fast but that m3 will just rape you. from a stop race he gains 2 cars by the time i shift to 2nd. highway race its over b4 i even downshift. only time i come close to beating him is when i just punch it when hes not expecting it lol. and these races was when he had 3ppl in his car and i had knowone. but its probably nothing that headers, intake, and a 75 shot couldn't fix.

RiceBurner

What is really scary is the modded M5 by Dinan. Sometimes indistinguishable from the stock M5, the Dinan M5 ups the stock horsepower from 394 to 470 and torque from 368 to 419 pound-feet. Needless to say, this thing will run 0-60mph in 4 seconds flat.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The E36 M3 came with 240-hp. But the car is lighter than ours, so nobody can say for sure.

Now, the E46 is a different story. Ray_Khan, it IS capable of high 12's, low 13's, but unless the weather is perfect and the driver has excellent launch skills, it's pretty tough to achieve high 12's. Realistically, more like mid- to high-13's. And contrary to popular beliefs, no, a stock E46 M3 is NOT a Vette killer.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

That's pretty impressive that all you guys have these sub 14.5 stock TL-S's that can beat or come up even w/ stick M3's....

Cuz... everytime I try from a dead stop, I get DEEEE-STROYED.

There is NO gear in my TL-S .. and I must have the SLOWEST one on the planet ... no gear is faster than any of the 5 in the 5-spd M3.... maybe high up in 2nd gear .. i might be able to sneak up on one.. but other than that.. nuh-uh.


P.S. please don't flame me about how I think a stock TL-S can't beat an M3.. this is my personal experience, and my personal opinion...thanx

LiQiCE

Hey, call my story BS if you'd like ... but I know for a fact that I passed the M3 from around 70-80mph on the Jersey turnpike, while after 80+mph, he just walked away from me with ease. I'm just speaking from my personal experience. I don't know if the M3 was an E36 or E46 (I don't know much about M3s, so I'm not sure how to tell the difference), and I don't know if the car I was racing was a manual, or SMG, or automatic either ... The car I was racing looked brand new though and it looked different than some of the older M3s I've seen in the past, so I'm assuming its a 2002.

Anyways, there's no denying that an M3 is faster than our TL-S's. They're sweet cars and if I had the cash I'd be in one!

paul_huryk

I had a little run-in with a 90's M3 out of a toll booth on the GSP last summer. From about 20mph, I pulled a car (or two) on him till about 70mph (it was a manual). I was surprised but also realized that without the starting advantage of the manual/RWD that it has, it made sense. I haven't raced a new gen M3, although at $50k plus, not too many people who buy them are gonna race them.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

I just don't know about this......street racing has too many variables. The E36 M3's are quick.....yeah, they may run mid 14's, but their trap speeds are 96 + mph. E46 M3's run 104-107mph in the 1/4th. Both of these average speeds are WELL above the "standard " 92-93 mph traps that a TL-S has. Anybody that thinks their 3500 lb 260 hp car can keep up with or beat a 3200 lb 330 hp M3 doesn't believe in the laws of physics. You may beat the driver, but you won't beat the car. I've driven the new M3 and the TL-S......the M3 will stomp the TL into the ground without even blinking.

r10apple

Yup--what he just said...Plus I love having looked at those tail lights a few times in the past...

hafids

Agreed - and you can certainly forget about it if it's a SMG. Even if he's a crappy driver, all he has to do is drop it in launch mode and release the + paddle shift on the steering column!

watch and learn:
http://www.bmw.com/bmwe/special/smg/...quickstart.mov

more info on SMG here: www.bmw.com/smg

KappaBoi

well seriously though, M3's are hella hella fast and u can call my story bs but i was with my friend when i beat this 2002 mustard M3 and my friend talked to the guy who i raced because he saw him at a racing shop. well he just got ANOTHER new M3 because the one i raced was kinda fcked up and he crashed it. talk about rich huh? lol but yea well this is what happened when i raced the 2002 M3. i live in arcadia and i was on the corner of duarte and baldwin and i was about to take a right turn but right when i came up he revved at me and laughed and also his gf laughed at me too, so i was like wtf i got nothing to lose and so i reversed and lined up with him. well the light turned green i peeled and was in SS the whole way, he never gained on me and i knew he didn't really know how to drive stick because he didn't even peel on the line(i dunno if he was cocky and thought he didnt need to but yea)and so he was behind by half a car the whole way up to 110 before we both shut down and then he went straight and i turned right. right after that my friend and i were both stunned at what happened, i can't say i beat him but i think i kinda beat him a lil lol but yea as i said u can call this bs but i had someone in my car who saw this whole thing. also when my friend did talk to him at the shop he did say that i beat him but it was only because his car was not running well, so i was like o wells he shouldn't have revved. but yea, thats my story.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

M3 owners can opt for the European SMG software, which comes with the launch mode. The U.S. spec software does NOT have this.

You can get it swapped at any BMW dealership for free of charge.

2fasttls

Ray Khan, where do you get your sources??????? wow .. your way off

Ray_Khan

2fasttls....tell me what you think I'm way off on? My best source is a buddy with an E36 M3 soon to have an Active Autowerke's turbo system. He has witnessed some 12 second passes done by E46 M3's.

2fasttls

I am not questioning your sources on the M3 or the E36, but rather on the times of the TL-S???? 15's????? I have yet to see a TL's run no less than 14.8 on the track. I am doing 14.61 stock and with mod's I am assuming I will run low 14's. Never seen a 15's TL-s yet.

Ray_Khan

my only real life source for a stock TLS is Ferizzo who ran with me and had a best of 15.2@93 mph and was no higher than 15.4 seconds. He was the only TLS there and the only one I've seen at my one time at the local strip. He was bone stock with full weight in his car and he didn't mess with tire pressure. It was in the 70-80 degree range that night. His 60ft times were around 2.2-2.3 seconds. A guy I met yesterday with a CLS auto said he ran a 14.88 at the same track, but I don't know the details of the run. I've seen times of stock TLS's as high as 15.5 in some publications and as low as 14.7. Seems people's high numbers here aren't that high, but the lows seem about the same as what I've read. Take into account people who don't get great times probably aren't posting them. So I take 15 flat as my average for a TLS. That's how I explain my numbers.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

Dont look so much at trap times, but rather trap speeds. These give you a better idea of how the car is performing regardless of the driver's skill as far as getting the car out of the hole goes. And YES, I have seen at *least* 3 E46 M3's run low, low 13's at around 106-107 mph on 60 degree nights. The best I've seen out of a stock TLS is 93.XX mph. These two cars don't even compare to each other, why are we comparing the two!?!

If you've ever seen videos where one car just straight up destroys the other horribly, there is usually a 10 mph difference or greater in trap speeds. This is what would happen if you lined an E46 M3 and a TLS up on the hwy....the M3 wouldn't walk away, it'd straight up rape it.

lilboykorea

lol ive "TRIED" racing my friends 03 m3 w/ SMG
by the time i was doin about 50 km, approaching abig curved road from a stop light, he was doubling my speed going through the insane corners, i couldnt do that through ther corners even if i had the acceleration too
but i wonder how i'll do against an older e36(?) m3

Ray_Khan

E36 not quite as fast as the E46, but still quick. E36 handles like a go kart. I like the E36 personally.

2fasttls

A41 .. I totally agree with you.... but if you would line up a $30,000 BMW to our TL-S we would rape it as much as the M3 would rape our TL-S. We are talking about the M3, incredible car. S4 would be a different story even dough the S4 is faster the TL-S would keep up, but once the S4 is chipped up ... its over, but like I stated b4 you have to spend big bucks b4 you can even start to keep up with a TL-S.

Ray_Khan

as for an stock S4, it'a ll about the drive...I've seen guys that can only run mid to high 14's stock...but then again, I've seen 13.8's stock as well from guys that know how to drive.

On the other hand, there's is plenty out there cheaper than a TLS that can smoke it, but nothing luxurious at all.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

True on most of your points...however, I have put about 30k total into my A4 and its making 290 hp on pump gas and 335 on 104 octane. No match for a TLS and gives an E46 a run for its money when I am on race fuel. Either way, this isn't the point. The TLS IS a great value, I'm not saying that it isn't....just that its absolutely no match for a late model M3.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I think we need to clear something up here.

The E36 M3 was the 240-hp version based on the previous 3-series model. The E46 M3 is the 333-hp version, which is the current model.

TL-S vs. E36 would be a good race.

TL-S vs. E46 would be an ass-raping.


There's a guy in my local car club with a bone stock E36 M3. I'm trying to get him to race my '03 TL-S w/ 4,000 miles. I'm fairly sure that I'll beat him.

One of the guys in my fraternity just bought an '03 M3 convertible, tripe black. No SMG, it's a stick. I know how fast it is, and if I ever raced him, it would be to see just badly I would lose. :p

Ray_Khan

Pure Adrenaline...watch out for modded E36....plenty of 400 hp ones out there, but you'll them by the sound for sure...ther is no hiding turbo/SC setups. Personally. I like the E36 better than the E46, E36 is a pure driver's car with less emphasis on straight line speed. The E46 is great as well, but a little too bling for me. The E46 is such a sleeper too. I have toyed with the idea of getting one and modding it, but it wouldn't be preactical as a daily driver in New England winters.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I averaged a 15.35 @ 90mph on my trip to the track w/ my car .. temp 60, humidity high .. good track conditions..

Do a search on this forum under "track" ... and you'll realize what I did: the average 1/4-mile times for the STOCK TL-S are around 14.9 - 15.1. There are a FEW CL-S and TL-S owners that have dipped below 14.7 (the best mag time ever for the TL-S, C&D I believe).

I've even seen MODDED typeS's run high fourteens and 15.0's .. you can look it up if you doubt me. I'm not going to research all these posts like I did a couple months ago for silverbulletCL-S when we disputed the same facts...

I have a feeling that in cold weather (40's) w/ a good tire hook-up on launch and given the fact that my car is now 23K miles broken in... i would prolly pull somewhere b/w 14.7 (at best) and 15.1 - 15.2 (at worst).

For those of you w/ TL-S's below 14.7 consistently .. and I do mean consistently .. congrats.. you've purchased a TL-S from the fast batch .. and w/ no sarcasm intended, that's awesome, I wish mine were faster!

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Very rare and difficult to get the E36 to 400hp w/o it being blown. Stage III Dinan is very costly and entails plenty of mods that would make anyone think twice, though they may definitely be worth it to you if you're a pure enthusiast and regard the changes as worth it .. i'm not criticizing that. E36 is one of the greatest cars in the stock format, and I can't imagine how fun it would be hooked up. I regard it as having one of the greatest 5-spd manuals ever .. though you can easily say the engine is it's crowing feature... I personally believe that the transmission is the closest link to connecting the driver to the engine and the driving experience.. and it does wonders.

hafids

Is it possible to get a European engine E36 and drop in a US car? I only ask b/c I believe it has 320 hp...

is300eater

Remember, I started this "tread" and I was NOT asking about the current M3 (I won't go there, HELL NO!), basically... all I wanted to hear is what "Pure Adrenaline said... (above)

Ray_Khan

agreed 100%...and yes of course the engine has to be blown for that type of power.

anything is possible with $$$$. I don't think that engine is tremndously faster as one might think because it sill only has as much tq as the US version. It's more likely to have tall gearing and a taller final drive too so it can use that extra hp for gaining top speed on the Autobahns and not necessarily the quickest times. It is quicker, but I don't recall it being as quick as the current E46 M3 from what I remember. I could be worng though.

r10apple

I just waxed an ALLEGED M3 at lunch! Granted, it was like a 1990 or something and 'prolly had some fake badges (and he had plenty of them on it)...I don't even know if they made them in/around 1990, but it was fairly boxy and square though the exhaust and wheels appeared more modern. His engine sounded nice while he rev'd it at the 'ol light, but it was all show and no go...

Maybe I'm off topic. How about, a TL-S with the a/c on can beat a before last, last, last generation M3? I would say yes, though somehow I don't feel very proud...

Ray_Khan

sounds like an E30 M3....4 cylinder...not so much power, but it handles like a go cart. Those things do well at the AutoX's...but hey, just say you walked an M3...nuff said.

r10apple

I just walked an M3!