kk939

I see you have a maxima,no offence.
Well I went to an infinity dealer and test drove a 2002 I35 the car was good I must say but after driving it I went straight to an Acura dealer ans test drove a 2002 TL then a 2002 TL(S-type),trust me the S-type felt much more powerful than the I35 and it had more balance.I was totally impressed with the 2002 type-S and I will take it over an I35 anytime plus the TL can be got with navigation and it has a sportier look than the I35. As of the maxima, the guy was comparing A TL with an IS300,I35 and A maxima GXE.Common now,the GXE does not have anythind special,I will have understood if he said a GLE(top of the line) or SE but not a GXE.The GXE does not even come with leather.

ScreamingVQ

-I always thought that the I35 felt more powerful because the powerband isn't as peaky, but my butt dyno is different than yours. I35 can be had with a navigation system also. GXE can be had with leather as a dealer installation only. I would call HID's, Electronic Brake force Distribution and Brake assist a "special" feature, especially considering its price....

-for another person from a different post- The GLE does have 17" rims now. They are 7 spokes with a machine aluminum finish like the TL mounted on 215/50HR17's

-For all- The Maxima GLE can be had with all the features of the TL-S but it also has features not found on the TL-S including: Auto entry/exit, Front auto up/down windows, Auto open/close feature for the sunroof, Brake assist and Brake force Distribution, Heated steering wheel. The I35 has more features including wood trim steering and shift nob, power sunshade, heated seats for all passengers, and wider tires (225/50VR17. But after test driving a TL-S last weekend, I would still pick the TL-S over the I35 because of its value and it felt more solid over the road. But Since I can get a Maxima GLE wo/nav cheaper with more features than a TL-S wo/nav, I would say the Maxima has more bang for the buck and that is what I'd chose.

-for the original thread starter-going from the GXE to an TL-S is a wide range of price your shopping for. If your looking for features of the TL-S, I35, or iS300 in that GXE, look elsewhere. Go test drive these cars and see which one fits you better.

tls988

I had a Lexus RWD for four years here in MN and it was not fun to drive a RWD in the snowy winter so didn't consider the IS300.
I have owned two Maxima (87 SE and 91 GXE) so I tested the I35. The I35 engine doesn't feel as free revving as the Type-S. However the I35 with the Sports package rides better (softer) than the Type-S, has more luxury items than the Type-S such as heated steering wheels, rear seats, better Bose sound system, rear window shade etc... The price of the I35 was $2,000 more than the base Type-S. My final choice was the Type-S because
its superb value, high revving V-6. Motor Trend in May 01 tested the Type-S against five European Sport Sedans, four with manual transmission and all cost thousands more than the Type-S. Here are some of the stats (0-60 and 1/4 mile) from that tests:
TL TYPE-S: 6.28/14.72 ($31,710)
Audi A6 2.7T 6-speed manual: 5.91/14.49 ($46,830)
BMW 330i 5-speed manual: 6.11/14.65 ($40,285)
MB C320 5-Speed auto: 6.92/15.17 ($42,686)
Saab 93 Viggen 5-speed manual: 6.52/15.09 ($39,020)
Volvo S60 T5 5-Speed manual: 6.63/15.00 ($35,275)

Other recent Motor Trends road tests:
Infiniti I35: 7.0/15.3
Lexus I300: 7.4/15.5

fahoumh

My dad's last two cars were RWD....and we've never had any problems with winter driving....but then again, they're both fairly heavy cars.

1SICKLEX

I never understood the winter vs RWD argument, it snows like hell overseas in Europe and most every car there is RWD, but most cars are manuals so that helps.....

When it snows here in Atlanta (rarely) that VSC has saved my butt a couple of times....

1SICKLEX

Oh and Infiniti is having a much tougher time trying to convince the public the I30/35 is a sporty car than Acura is with the Type-S cars...

MedicSonic

GXe vs. GLE. Gotcha. Like I asked before, have you made a decision?

TL-S Man

Hello, Dan,

All the cars you mention have merit, but the key is to find the one that fits you, both physically and personality-wise.
I took possession of a TL-S, after agonizing over what to buy--my list of cars was narrowed to about four, and it included an Audi TT Coupe! Practicality won to some degree, but I am pleased with my choice. Whether you will be pleased depends on how well you do your homework.
As for color, there doesn't seem to be a bad color combo for the TL Type S. If you like the blue, go with it. I bought the car with Diamond Pearl White and Parchment interior. Got a gold kit and a gold stripe (in honor of this ol' geezer turning 5 OH!)
Take advice with a grain of salt, but go with the way you feel in the end--after all, it is YOUR money!
Best of luck.
Al

totallymondotl

Well we looked around for 6 months. Being a car junkie I looked at all the cars that are in the general class. I came from a Contour SVT:
BMW: over priced, under powered, a true K-car here in oregon; a dime-a-dozen (see Starbucks) quality very spotty. (see 750 IL & 540) danger Will Robinson!
Nissan: altima 3.5. Nice looking, but the interior is not in class and quite small feeling interior. Depreciation will be truly abismal.
Maxima SE: drove twice; auto and six speed (day I purchased TL-S)
6 speed had nice power, notchy shifter, weird tacked on navi. Fit and finish, quality of materials not in class. See depreciation comment above...truly frightening!
Infiniti: Soft suspension even with sport pkg. Funky navi, boring style. Power average, priced too high. Depreciation world record accountants nightmare!
Lexus IS300; I liked it's looks, giggled at price vs. power. Ripped many a lexus in my contour. Nice fit and finish, bang for the buck not good. Future value a real question, manual a joke.
Volvo S-60 T-5: NO VALUE! Outfitted equal to Acura priced at 38,600 oh brother! Marginal interior....see ford taurus.
Those are my thoughts. Hope you find them helpful.

Guest

I'm sorry totallymondotl, I really have to question someone that not only drove a Ford, but compared a BMW to a K-car, while calling an Altima "nice looking" ?? And the fact that you'd even question the future resale value of a Lexus is ridiculous. Btw, the 740 and 540 are consistently ranked best-in-class by almost everyone incl. Consumer Reports and that includes reliability. And last I checked, a 200hp Contour SVT did 0-60 in the mid-sevens, Ford actually quoted 7.9 themselves, so maybe you're beating a Lexus ES, but not much else. The IS transmission is considered excellent, and it's stick time was 7.1 (conservative) 0-60, not much off a Tls, and cost $34k.

1SICKLEX

TedC fresh off the press, Sports Car International got a 0-60 time of 6.8 sec in the manual IS.

BMW may be overpriced, but they sure as heck ain't underpowered.

Quite frankly an Infiniti and Acura depreciate about the same, but why worry buy the car and KEEP IT.

If your trying to buy something under 30k new, TL and Maxima are near the top of the List.

MedicSonic

Thank you, a good summary.

blklegend

My .02

It all depends on what you are looking for and also how long you plan to keep it. If you are looking for resale value and a long history of reliability and performance, BMW. But if you plan to keep the car for awhile, and best bang for the buck TL-S or Maxima GLE/SE. It is your call you should test drive both of them. IS300 is overpriced for that size, especially like you said you are a big guy. As for the I35, I have no clue about this car because I never even considered it, I'd rather get a 02 Max.

Guest

Truth be told, BMW doesn't have a long history of reliability, once the warranty runs out sell it quickly, because it gets expensive real fast, and the size vs. price arguement for the IS300 doesn't hold water, since I could buy an Avalon with lots more room for less money than a TL/TLs, or pay more for a Corvette with much less room. The car is almost identical in size to a 3-series and C-class, it's intended market.

blklegend

I thought BMW's did have a good track record for reliability?

totallymondotl

I wouldn't trust that number from sports car intl. If you research the other mags you'll find NONE that even come close. Either the car was a wringer or they factored in too much correction. As far as depreciation Acura is no where near as bad as infiniti. Pick up a Kelly Blue book or Edmunds or Nada book..or look in Auto Trader. Heck look at a NEW 2001 I-30. Their selling for 25K here with no miles. Infiniti has a long reputation for dismal resale. Says nothing about quality, Hey I love them, I'd have a new Q-45 in a second over a LS430 depreciation or not. At this price level for most people depreciation is something to consider and most people don't..however their plans Keep their cars beyond 4-5 years. Car-people get bored:o
I forget to mention that I looked at a Passat GLX w & w/0 awd. Umm, nice cars really. Bang for the buck..No. I found 27-30K and 190 hp lame. And the new v-8 is a joke. 240hp and 40K! I think Ferdinand Piech has lost his mind! and a v-12 Passat is suppose to happen to fight the Mercedes S class
Audi A4. Very nice too, small inside. "New" engine =220hp
34K "you've got to be kidding" Again,Ferdinand have you seen your therapist lately.

totallymondotl

Ted, Ted, Ted. Pleeease. I don't know where you got your SVT numbers from. 10,000' with Oprah behind the wheel. I can assure you that it was in the mid 6's depending on temps outside. Go to SVT.org if you please. I don't get my info from CONSUMER REPORTS either. Just a taste of their wisdom: 1980: "they chevy citation...a revolutionary and recommended car". 1982: "the new cadillac V-8,6,4 a bold step in technology;recommended". I question anyone who uses this publication for car information. It's fine for the Wallmart set but come on. As far as the Lexus tranny I was not refering to how it felt only that it didn't increase performance. See recent Sport Compact Car. And for the value I meant that the car is being overshadowed by it's lack of performance vs competition and I believe that Lexus will likely boost it's power sooner rather then later meaning that the current iteration will fall in value when that occurs. (see VW Corrado G60) No hard feelings just my .02
Thats all. Gee, this is fun!
Having had a ford let me tell 'ya I know all about massive depreciation
C&D april '98 0-60 6.7. R&T June '98 6.8

Guest

I got my numbers from Edmunds.com where they listed it at 7.1 (the best I've seen), and the Auto Channel (7.4) so you're telling me that they're off by over a half second minimum ?? On a car that has 25 less hp, 45 less lbs. of torque, and weighs about the same as a BMW 330, yet posts the same 0-60 ??!! And Consumer Reports is highly qualified for reliability as they are an independent evaluator with no advertising or automotive company influence pressured upon them, just straight forward information. And the IS300's competition is the Audi A4, the BMW 325 (based on price and engine) and the C230/320, all of which it either is priced even or lower, and as fast, if not faster. And the IS stick doesn't enhance performance ?! It shaved off .06 seconds off it's 0-60 time, that sounds impressive to me.

totallymondotl

As far as the times for the contour..yes that is what I'm saying. The times are wrong or either have testing inconsistancies or incomplete data. I would trust C&D, R&T, Automobile, Autoweek 1st before TNN's car channel or their ilk. You must remember that Edmunds is a value oriented publication...not strickly a performance Evaluation focused publication. The contour is/was much tighter sprung and geared much differently as well. Hey I use Consumer Reports to pick; blenders, wash machines, dental impliments..I think they're great...not for cars but hey that's a personal thing.....IT's all good. And god bless america!
ps my bros 750 IL was such a pile BMW bought it back and after owning a 540 for a year and encountering similiar probs he chucked it for a S500....

Guest

C & D went by Ford Corp.'s time of 8.1, and AutoWeek tested at 8.43 (although heat was a factor, they assume 7's). Me personally, I can't trust any that don't use a real-world standard, as I don't redline to 6k rpms while brakestanding at redlights. I just mash the gas pedal and go, or if driving stick, shift as fast as possible. When the BMW 330xi can test at 5.5 secs, almost a full second faster than the 330 coupe, yet weighing more than 600lbs. more, you know something doesn't seem right. And as far as using those mags for future reliability, almost all do only a 6 month or 1 year update, and every car is fully warranteed, so who cars if the tranny drops, you don't pay for it, you should worry about reliability moreso after the warranty ends, to see what you'd be paying and how often, which Consumer Reports excellently covers. Just my .02

totallymondotl

I hear ya. Couldn't disagree.
I still can't get over how expensive the Volvo S-60 T-5 was...I really kind of liked the way it looked after driving the S-80 which was kind of...Big feeling...but by the time I outfitted the S-60 the way I'd buy it...WHAMO it was $38 large!...I'd be interested to see what happens to the model after the initial Volvo people make their purchases...guess we'll see.

1SICKLEX

Of all the magazines I subscribe to or read, i totally 110% recommend Sports Car International. They give honest yet unbiased views. They have articles on cars you can afford but are SPORTS CARS and articles on cars that hopefully I can one day afford. NO @#$%^& SUV articles. They get great guest articles. And they have the best pics bar none.

Also why can we believe the tl-s goes 0-60 in 6.2 (fastest time recorded) and not the IS 6.8 (fastest time recorded). Please dude let's be real.

The family of W-8 engines has abundant low end torque, making peak torque as low as 1800 rpm. I DO AGREE Fernindad has bumped his head though!

totallymondotl

You know I will check out this mag. I predict that Ferdinand will end up like Jac Nasser at Ford...ie GONE

jen84

That's because you know Ferdinand already gone....the new W8 is only 3.7 liters yet it will produce 275 HP equaling the Mercedes 430 and just 7 HP shy of the 4.4 liter BMW 540I and 6 shy of the Jag S-type 4.0. Perhaps Piech bumped his head, who knows...we do that VW & Audi are rolling out some of the best vehicles around today. My wife owns an 2000 Passat 1.8T, 5sp with a Autoauthority chip....she spanks my $31,000 moded TL daily and runs neck & neck with my neighbor's 2001 $42,000 330I. Her price of admission for a true German Tourning Sedan was $26,600.... Performance is what you get from cars like the 3 series, A4 & Passat because they were built from the ground up to be sports sedans. They are not transplanted over weight mid size family sedans (Accord VS Camry) with stiffer springs & shocks, that are trying to be what they were never meant to be and compete where there were never meant to compete.

jen84

That's because you know Ferdinand is already gone....the new W8 is only 3.7 liters yet it produces 275 HP equaling the Mercedes 430 and just 7 HP shy of the 4.4 liter BMW 540I and 6 shy of the Jag S-type 4.0. Perhaps Piech bumped his head, who knows... what we do know is that VW & Audi are rolling out some of the best vehicles around today. My wife owns a 2000 Passat 1.8T, 5sp with a Autoauthority chip....she spanks my $31,000 moded TL daily and runs neck & neck with my neighbor's 2001 $42,000 330I. Her price of admission for a true German Tourning Sedan was $26,600.... Performance is what you get from vehicles like the 3 series, A4 & Passat because they were built from the ground up to be sport sedans. They are not transplanted over weight mid size family sedans (Accord VS Camry) with stiffer springs & shocks....trying to be what they were never meant to be and compete where there were never meant to compete.

jen84

The new Passat W8 is only 3.7 liters yet it will produce 275 HP equaling the Mercedes 430 and just 7 HP shy of the 4.4 liter BMW 540I and 6 shy of the Jag S-type 4.0. Perhaps Piech bumped his head, who knows...what we do know is that VW & Audi are rolling out some of the best vehicles around today. My wife owns a 2000 Passat 1.8T, 5sp with a Autoauthority chip....she spanks my $31,000 moded TL daily and runs neck & neck with my neighbor's 2001 $42,000 330I. Her price of admission for a true German Tourning Sedan was $26,600.... Performance is what you get from cars like the 3 series, A4 & Passat, because they were built from the ground up to be sport sedans they are not transplanted over weight mid size family sedans (Accord VS Camry) with stiffer springs & shocks, trying to be what they were never meant to be and compete where there were never meant to compete.

1SICKLEX

masterful, 3 quotes, 1 response.....

I do agree with you however..

Old timer

Well, I'll throw some stuff into the discussion. How about the new ES300 from Lexus. It's bigger inside than the TL (we have a 2001 TL) and the quality is impeccable. They've beefed up the suspension and the handling also. Yes, it's quite a bit more than the Acura but you get what you pay for. I'm 6'2" and pretty heavy and the TL just doesn't fit that well. I know, Momma wanted it so that's what we got. The build quality isn't anywhere close to the Lexus or the Infiniti (leased a 98 I30, so familiar with that). If I had it to do over, I'd go with the Lexus. As you can tell from the handle, I'm an old fart and 0-60 is not the top factor when we buy a car. Also, the Lexus has multi power seat for the passenger. Can't get that in either the Infiniti or the Acura. Go figure for a $30K near luxury car.

Well, that's my rant and 2 cents.
OT

TL-S Man

Hello Old Timer--

I looked at the Lexus ES 300, and it definitely has more "pizazz" than the TL, with bolder styling, and a drop-dead gorgeous interior. I'm about 5'9" and cars are built around people my size, so I have more choices than someone who is 6'2", but I wasn't going to spring for the extra 7 or so grand to get an ES300--otherwise, I would have gotten a 330 Bimmer for about the same amount.
For 30 grand, the Acura TL Type S brings an exceptional amount of standard items which are extra from other manufacturers;

TL-S Man

Hello Old Timer--

I looked at the Lexus ES 300, and it definitely has more "pizazz" than the TL, with bolder styling, and a drop-dead gorgeous interior. I'm about 5'9" and cars are built around people my size, so I have more choices than someone who is 6'2", but I wasn't going to spring for the extra 7 or so grand to get an ES300--otherwise, I would have gotten a 330 Bimmer for about the same amount.
For 30 grand, the Acura TL Type S brings an exceptional amount of standard items which are extras from other manufacturers on their vehicles--a bargain is short-lived, though, if you don't feel comfortable behind the wheel. The 210 hp motor in the ES300 is a massaged version of the six found in the Camry (which shares it's sheetmetal styling to some degree). While it is no speed-demon, it will get you down the road relatively easy, as it does 0-60 in about 8 seconds. There is no question that it is a nice car, but a lot of people here would still opt for the TL or TL S--I know: I did!
Good Luck on the hunt!

totallymondotl

Well the Chairman of VW-Ag is still the chairman. The chairman of BMW lost his head last year as did Chrysler and Fords Pres. As far as the Passat being built as a sports sedan since inception..no. It's the same car as it's been under the sheetmetal since 1990. the current passat with the audi 2.8 is today slower than the first vr6 version.( had a '93 and liked it, current car...big jetta) The car albeit nice is not a sports sedan in it's current state..wasn't meant to be...as far as you being spanked by the wife in a four banger...gee I can't really figure that one..are you stuck in second?..umm what's in the trunk....what are ya' racin' too 30?. As the chairman is indeed on a path of defeat as VW begins to eat Audi's market share...and what will become of Bentley under his "vision". As far as BMW goes....they continue to have serious cash flow issues...my prediction is they will be taken over in the not to distant future....get a load of the Dodge stratus stylings of the new 740

jen84

You don't have a clue do ya?....where are you getting your information on the Passat...the Passat is an all new car (since 98) and is currently being built along side the A4/A6 in Ingolstadt. Both the A6/A4 are sport sedans...the Passat is the same car with the same underpins only smaller sways with less firm shocks/ springs (steering not as quick) for ride compliance. The Passat is not slower in 1.8T (20V turbo) form...it will accelerate from 0-60 in 7.3 seconds (5 SP) and with the chip/filter from Auto authority or Garrrett that boost the PSI on the turbo, the Passat/A4/TT all have 200 HP and 245 lb ft of torque from 1850 rpms to redline, while still weighing in at less than 3150 lbs of curb weight...you do the math....it is as quick as a TYPE S / 330I when in 5 sp form....By the way, the new Jetta GLX is a very nice car in 5 sp Tiptronic or 5 sp manual with either the 1.8T or VR6 motor (180 HP & 204 HP respectively in 2002) with both weighing in at less than 3,000 lbs of curb weight...do the math....you haven't a clue....where have you been hiding under a rock or at some RICE convention where they are hocking VW/Audi roof antennas & side marker lights, BMW M3 mirrors and Benz grills to make your Honda look German....you're no car enthusiast...read up before you speak up....learn that mid size over weight 3,550 or 3,650 lb cars with slush boxes, being pushed by 225 or 260 HP is not that great...that's explained by the 180 hp 325i & 225 HP 330I being faster than the TLP & TLS (the same can be said for the 5 & 6 sp non quattro A4 1.8T & 3.0) ...get real..you're no enthusiast

totallymondotl

my goodness....someone has issues....not been laid recently or what!! "all new" means very little...pay no attention to the marketing dept sonny. If I put a blower on my TL and some b!tchin' decals with the BMW boat marker lights it'd be as cool as dem' M-3 's BUt then again you like the 'plether' of the BMW and some day when yer' all growd' up youz gonna get one. I'm sure of it. No 4 banger passat is going to blow off a TL or Cl S. Chip or not, YOUR're either not able to drive A or B YOU ARE UNABLE TO USE A STOPWATCH! 230-250 lb differential will not make up for 80 hp difference and all of the Gay "Chips" in the world won't help...I gotta' chip in my lightening...big deal. Go read a magazine and whack off! And leave the driving to us boys and let your woman drive...apparently she has the skills in the family.....so there
Ya' see not all the type s mats and iridium bulbs and groovy taillights will make up for your dense conclusions here..it's a math thing along with a fews years experience on ya' that do you in there fella...but you keep tryin' eventually you'll get it

Guest

They had their best year EVER in the history of the company in 2001, selling over a million vehicles worldwide, so unless they're blowing the cash on crack and whores, your story doesn't make sense. As for the 7-series styling, regardless, they'll sell like hotcakes, being a benchmark vehicle will do that for a car.

totallymondotl

Yep I'd heard they had that kinda' year . unfortunately their overhead has exploded, that is why in an effort to minimize costs they are building cars in south carolina....not because southerners do such fine work...they have been rumored to be a prime for a take over for some time...740's don't sell that well compared to the competition either...their styling like everything else is a matter of personal taste...not mine mind you but "everybody needs somebody..." thank you Dean
Geez I was looking at my post from yesterday....wow I was kinda mean...I'm a little shocked

BakedWafer

You can get a Maxima with no trimming for under 21K, goes to show what the cars are really worth. ADD all the trimmings and it gets to 32 really quick. I mean base Maxima invoice is 19,430.00. ALOT less than the TL-S or CL-S

evolaerok

They did set a record year true, but they are still hit big time because of the bad multi-billion dollar investment in Rover.

MedicSonic

So much misinformation in here...

totallymondotl

I'm in therapy as a result...it's just so hard..

jen84

I don't think you were being mean, just stupid...gcrocker gave facts....you shot back with worthless, defensive, inapt, personal attacks...gcrocker I took note that you did not respond, thanks for the maturity....take note that all TL owners are not stupid, nor do we all drive red neck pick up trucks with chips...