chris_w

Am I missing something, or are the ads for the I35 completely misleading? I don't get how it can say it has the most powerful engine in it's class, when it has 5hp less than the TL-S.

The fine print in the ad says compared to 2001 import models, but isn't the I35 a 2002 model?

hemants

Power as defined by torque.

Road Rage

2 thoughts:

1) My bet is that Nissan means standard engines, The TL is the base model, the "S" am optional model.
2) Power can never be measured as torque, as power has a work factor implied in its definition, and work is energy applied over a distance travelled, whereas torque is a static measurement.

fla-tls

There is one other explaination. Perhaps Nissan/Infinity do not think the I35 is in the same class as the TL/TL-S... Has anyone seen an ad where they define this (perhaps in the "fine print" on the bottom of the ad)?

LarryLynx

Some auto reviewer wrote a feature article for the Sacramento Bee this past week, pitting the I35 with the TLS, both with NAVI. Although it was not very in-depth or even very good reading (how can you not include performance statistics in an article about supposed performance cars), he saw no clear winner between the two cars, except that, comparably equipped, the I35 was more expensive, at 35,000 OTD. The only thing he didn't like about the TLS was its criptic name.

DJ Iceman

Let's just say that Nissan has not been known recently for truth in advertising...

RAdams

I heard an I35 radio commercial yesterday on the way home from work and thought the exact thing... that I was driving a car in the I35's class that had more horsepower. At the end of the commercial it states that they are comparing "standard engines" so you're 100% right.

BarryH

I think Nissan is really splitting hairs. If the "S" were an option package on the standard TL than what they are claiming is 100% true. Since Acura sells, prices, and markets the TL-S as a seperate model, IMHO Nissan is reaching a bit with their marketing. If you read the fine print in their ads it does state "based on standard engines".

dean078

then how are they defining "class"? standard definitions of class are either size (compact, midszie, fullsize, etc.) or price range (near-luxury, luxury, etc.).

either way they define it, whatever 'class' the i35 is in, the tl-s is in also, even if it is an optional trim...IT'S STILL IN THAT CLASS.

but of all the i35 ads i've seen, i only saw this once awhile back, so they may have pulled it but there's still some old ones floating around.

Guest

Yeah, but you never see a car comparo with both a TL and a Type S in it, do you ? That would be like BMW putting an M3 in a shootout of entry-lux vehicles, you have to consider engine size also, as a GS300 doesn't track against a 540.

pianoman41

Apparently Nissan marketing types believe the Maxima is in the same class as the TL-S. And since the Maxima and the I35 aren't in the same class (even though it's the same car), then the TL-S and I35 can't be in the same class. When giving horsepower comparisons in the 2002 Maxima brochure (holding it in my hands right now), they list for competitors:

Nissan Maxima - 255 hp
Toyota Avalon - 210 hp
Audi A4 3.0 - 220 hp
Acura TL 3.2 - 225 hp

Notice they don't use the Type-S for comparisons. After all this is *their* brochure--of course they want to make their car on top.

I don't pay much attention to marketing ploys. It's real simple for me. See a car I like, drive it. Like the drive, buy it. You can throw numbers around all day long. As long as the $$$ number fits my wallet I'm sold.

dean078

it seems nissan likes to make up their own 'classes' and not tell anyone what they use to define it.

sniper5

We know who has the better engine

1000bpm

Make no mistake about it ...the VQV6 is one of the best V6's out there. However the TLS's V6 will give you a lot more low-end acceleration ... the difference is not subtle (I've been driving an I35 for the past 2 weeks). Very nice interior though.

paultl

i own an tl-s.
sadly to say the i35 3.5 v6 is a superior engine compared to our 3.2 v6

bottom line, we got no torque!!!!!

doesnt really matter how they advertise against the regular TL,,,,,

engine to engine,,we are behind

whats up with our sohc engines???? why cant we have a dohc???

tls988

I tested an I35 back in December. Although the I35 felt quicker than a 01 Maxima SE with A/T (01 has less ponies), its engine
didn't feel as responsive as the Type-S at higher RPMs. Several magazine such as Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Autoweek have posted sub-15 seconds quarter mile time for the Type-S and none so far for the I35. At least Infinti is not using rocks and trees to market the new I35 like they did for the Q45 back in the early 90s

daverman

Because it's expensive. Remember that a DOHC V6 will have FOUR cams, one for each bank of the "vee".

I'd rather skip DOHC V6's altogether in favor of solenoid-activated (camless) valves.

RAdams

You cite DOHC being a cost issue (when it's really more of a packaging issue), then mention a fairly new, as-yet-untested in the mainstream market solenoid activated valves? I'd imagine that would be even more expensive.

fla-tls

I don't know much about the technology, but how would a electro-mechanical device (like a solenoid) be more reliable than the good ole' cam shaft (with proven technology behind it)?

samkws

that's right!!

DOHC design is costy...and in some point they are not as efficient as the SOHC design...

a decade ago many manufacturers towards DOHC design becaue it's more powerful than SOHC engines...but thank to VTEC and those valve controll things...now they are almost as gd as DOHC engines at high RPM and not to mention they have more torque at low end!!!

but now it doesn't reallie matter for both designs coz they are both very sophisicated...plenty of low end torque and power at peak...

remember the mercedes dropped their 4valve per cyliner DOHC engines to the 3 valves SOHC engines? it's more efficient and cost a lot less too

Shyne

It all comes down to what you would rather have...The I35 is odd looking when i compare it to the TLS...I dont like the rear or the front...The interior is subtle...Navi is raw...But all in all, i would rather have a TLS...Shyne

Lrpba300

I wish u were right. I hear that ad on the radio here all the time. I'm constantly yelling back that that's a crock

Couldn't have said it better myself pianoman41!!!

daverman

Yup, it's a packaging issue too... as well as more moving parts, etc.

I'd take solenoid activated valves any day. It's got fewer moving parts to break, you can put as many valves you want on each cylinder, and you can adjust the timing of every individual valve to your (computer's) heart's content.

jbs221

So, TL-S is cryptic, then what's I35, it just rolls off the tounge!?

iNteGraz92

tl-s rolls off the tongue nicely
dunno about EYE thirty FIVE tho.

SCWells72

I saw it on TV last night and thought the same thing. I just assumed they were comparing the I35 to the TL and they'll compare the G35 to the TL-S when it's available. Sneaky marketing, but for those not in the know (read: "most people"), unfortunately it's going to work.

The Nissan V6 is a heck of an engine, but I really think Infiniti made a big mistake mating it to a four-speed tranny. Put a five- or six-speed tranny in there, preferably manual but even sequential automatic, and the engine would have a better chance to shine.

perrymaxima

Maybe Nissan wants to save something for the next gen I35/Max. I'm glad they didn't rush a 5spd auto to the market before extensive studing. Nissan probably didn't want transmission problems to tarnish that VQ engine's shine.

SCWells72

But they're already doing so with the G35, right? I mean, it's going to have a sequential manumatic mated to the VQ as it is. Perhaps that wasn't quite baked when they decided to release the I35, but it's not like they hadn't done the R&D...

perrymaxima

Yeah the Max/I35 are 2002 the G35 is a 2003 due for arrival in March. Why doesn't the RL have a sequential manumatic ( probably saving it for next gen) Plus for 2003 they may drop it on the VQ but I'm sure they will wait for the 2004 mode year.

ChucksCL-S

I know which setup I'd rather have if I lost the timing belt or needed a rebuild for some other reason.... Also I've been noticing Nissan advertises one horsepower reading but on the dyno we get another reading which is always lower. Hmmmm.

BLEXV6

I just wanted to point something out. That is our 3.2 litre engines are from 1999, and nissans larger 3.5 litre engine is new. Well it better be better than. Hondas, since its new. You watch, the new TL engine will be much better when it comes out in 2003, as Honda always leapfrogs over the competition with their new models, especially their engines, which is their forte.

perrymaxima

Our 3.5L V6 engine is not new it is the same VQ engine that has powered the Max since 1995 (was bored out to 3.5L for 02 Max)and back in 1999 or 2000 the same 3.5L engine was dropped into the Pathfinder. The 3.5 or 3.0 L engine has been around for at least 3-7 years how ever you want to look at it.

Webologist

You do realize, of course that your SOHC has TWICE as many intake lobes as the DOHC in the i35 don't you. VTEC provides a low rpm/ high torque lobe and a high RPM / High horsepower lobe. The poor i35 has to make do with one lobe that compromises both... Not inferior in the least. If it was inferior it would make less horsepower despite having more displacement. (like the situation the i35 finds itself in)

city001

I35 is not same class as TL P......I35 is upgrade from I30.. it's more like in comparison with our TL S

city

perrymaxima

The I35 is not and upgarade of the I30 it replaced the I30. there is no 2002 I30 just a 2002 I35 in other words...

samkws

in fact, SOHC provides more torque at low end than DOHC engines but don't have high end...but VTEC helps it looks same to DOHC engines at high end...so that's y honda is using SOHC engines mostly...and it's saves more fuel too

perry, if nissan did extensive studying, they should have brought the 5spd auto a couple years ago...they are still using 4spd auto because they don't wnat to make it more expensive...do u know how much more expensive for a 5spd auto??? all due to the cost cutting...

in japan, most upper line Nissan cars are equipped with 5spd auto long ago and now some of the models even have CVT...

i belive 5spd will come in within a yr or 2, but upgrading yr by yr is just unimpressive to those previous version customers. like they did to the 3.5VQ just now and 5spd auto in the future...

RL is a 6 yr car already....back to 95 or 96...no reason to develop a 5spd to the slow seller and its aging design...otherwise they would upgrade to the 240hp and 5spd combo that in the MDX
wait few more months and u will see a new RL..

perrymaxima

That's interesting because I just read that nissan has 8spd CVT on their european GT-R (350 GT-8) wasn't aware so much more was offered in Japan and Europe for Nissan products. It mentioned they could bring the 8spd CVT to the US in a 350Z or G35 variant.

daverman

Aren't "eight speed" and "continuously variable" kinda contradictory?

perrymaxima

Read for yourself

Webologist

No but it's hard to shine when a smaller engine can push a heavier car faster. Even the TL-P beats the i35 to 60 by .3 seconds. Let's not even talk about the glare from the 3.2 Type S! It seems like it's an insult for a 3.5 to get killed by a 3.2. Glad it's not me...