khenault

I found this on usenet, so I thought I'd share...

Are you bugged about starting a car trip only to leave your coverage area in
the before the first leg of the trip is complete? How about driving around
a strange town trying to find an Acura dealership to load a new coverage
area? Both a pain!

For those of us using the old style Alpine hard disk navigation system,
(1999 and earlier) here is a solution to using your navi on trips. You
simply need a laptop capable of handling PCMCIA Type III cards; most do so.

Place the navi hard drive, a 450 mg PCMCIA hard drive, in the laptop's
PCMCIA slot. Turn on the computer, and Win 98 recognizes the drive, finds
the correct drivers, and calls the hard drive up as another system drive.

Using windows explorer, you view the files on the drive, drag and drop them
to your laptop hard drive, burn a copy on a CD burner, or whatever. In my
case, over a number of visits, I had the Acura dealership download all
seven coverage areas to my navi. At home I copied the files to a large hard
drive, and burned a CDR backup.

Your first two years of data updates are included in the cost of the Navi,
so take advantage of what you paid for. If your free period is over, you
can pay a one time fee for a year of updates.

Now I use the laptop to change coverage areas as I travel. Simply clear the
files from the coverage area you just left, and add the files for the new
coverage area. I usually do it during a gas/food/rest stop. It takes about
10 minutes total, but it sure beats looking at a blank screen on your $2,000
navi.

NOTE: Be sure to insert the hard drive in your computer, then turn it on.
Remove it after you turn off the computer. Also, make sure your ignition is
off when removing or replacing the drive from the navi processor in the
trunk.

bigmonkey70

Do you have all 7 regions on CD? Do you mind make a copy for me? Let me know what you need I will send them to you (CDRs, shipping fee, etc)

BlackShadow

Same here.
Let me know what you need also.

------------------
Binh

tshields2

I would be interested as well if it isn't too much trouble.

------------------
1999 Silver TL w/ Navigation
-Comptech Exhaust
-CL Type S Wheels and Tires
-PIAA 1900x Foglights
-Gutter Guard Grill

Mstyle

Me Too!!!! I don't understand do you erase then copy the drive???..

TommyBoiSxty9

its probly one large file...
like
eastern section maybe is
EAST.FILE
then as u move along
u stick that sucker in the laptop, eraase EAST.FILE, and copy SOUTHEAST.FILE to the PCMCIA HDD...

tlnav99

Do you have all 7 regions on CD? Can you send me a copy also? Let me know what you need I will send them to you (CDRs, shipping fee, etc)

BDI

I'm very interested too

BlackShadow

Hey khenault, any updates to this???

Tim

I own a 99TL Navi that recently started to have a hard disk error. After checking with Acura on the price of a replacement hard drive ($250 + $75 for programming) I knew there had to be another way. Fortunately the old drive would work when cold and I was able to copy the files off and make a CDRom backup. I then went on a search for a new drive and was able to find brand new drives for $24.95 ea. After copying the CD backup onto the new drive I was back in perfect operating order. I have purchased four of them in factory sealed boxes and looking to put other zones on them. Now you can plug in a new zone just by changing drives. Drives are available on Ebay for as low as $24.95. Just search for Calluna 520MB PCMCIA Drive and make sure they are in listed as NEW. The drive number is CT521RM.

Firebird_EOU

I just need 2003 Eastern (NY) region.

How were you able to let the dealer download all 7 regions to your Nav if it only had room to fit 1 to begin with? Isn't that the reason why our nav is limited to 1 region due to HD space limitation?

Tim

You are correct. The HD can only have one zone at any one time. By purchasing another drive for $25 you can add another zone on the new drive. Then just plug in the new drive when going into that zone. You will also have a backup to the original drive, when it fails. I have had one drive fail under the warranty and the second was starting to get intermittent.

jjpark

Has anyone tried purchasing a multi-Gig drive and copied all files to it? If the reasons why one can only see one region at a time are:

1- disk space

2- filename for region does not exist (because not on disk)

then it would make sense that with a larger drive, both problems could be solved.

If the above is true, one needs to format the new drive in the same way as the smaller drive, then perform a bit transfer ("image") from the original drive to a larger drive. Finally, copy each of the region files to the larger drive.

I wish I could try it myself, but I didn't opt for NAV.

Jung

Larry Chisum

Each of the 7 Acura hard drive regions has exactly 41 files. The 41 filenames vary from region to region by one character, e.g., ADB0751.CAN for region 1, and ADB0752.CAN for region 2. The 41 filetypes (.CAN, .CAS, .CAX, etc) are exactly the same for all 7 regions. There is a boot file which specifies which database (the region number) is on the hard drive, and after booting, all references to files are made using that number in the file name. So it would be my guess that the hard drive navi system is designed for, and will support, one region at a time.

Larry

Tim

Here is the boot.CFG listing from my drive. Does anyone know what the settings do. I understand the _DELAY statements but what about the rest. Is there a way to increase the acuracy/performance?

SX_DISTANCES = 52800|132000|264000|528000|52800000
SX_MAXPATHS = 3|3|3|3|3|3
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER0 = 18|18|18|18|18|32
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER1 = 36|36|36|36|36|50
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER2 = 4|4|4|4|4|15
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER3 = 6|6|6|6|6|8
SX_HEUR_FACTOR = 1|1|1|1|1|1
SX_GCOST_SCALE = 80|80|80|80|80|80
SX_IV_SCALE = 100|100|100|100|100|100
SX_NUM_BLOCKS = 30|30|45|45|45|45
SX_TERMCNT = 175|150|150|150|70|70

SX_RAMP_TO_STREET_DELAY = 60
SX_STREET_TO_RAMP_DELAY = 60
DU_LIGHT_CYCLE_TIME = 60

SX_UTURN_DELAY = 50
PCL_SIZE = 65536
PCL_NUMBER = 15
PCL_FACTOR = 1000
PCL_TOD_FACTOR = 800
MAX_OPEN_FILES = 2
PM_LAYERS="0"
RP_LAYERS="01234"

jjpark

Larry: Do you know what type of db the boot file is? If it can be edited (and the NAV's software merely reads which regions are on the hard drive), the db could be populated with multiple regions. Wanna send me the boot db file to examine?

Jung

Larry Chisum

Here is the boot file, which looks remarkably like the one posted above, except there are an extra couple of lines. Yes it can be edited.

CONFIG_PATH = .\
CONFIG_DEF_FILE = config.def
PARSE_DEFINITIONS = parse.e1

SX_DISTANCES = 52800|132000|264000|528000|52800000
SX_MAXPATHS = 3|3|3|3|3|3
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER0 = 18|18|18|18|18|32
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER1 = 36|36|36|36|36|50
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER2 = 4|4|4|4|4|15
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER3 = 6|6|6|6|6|8
SX_HEUR_FACTOR = 1|1|1|1|1|1
SX_GCOST_SCALE = 80|80|80|80|80|80
SX_IV_SCALE = 100|100|100|100|100|100
SX_NUM_BLOCKS = 30|30|45|45|45|45
SX_TERMCNT = 175|150|150|150|70|70

SX_RAMP_TO_STREET_DELAY = 60
SX_STREET_TO_RAMP_DELAY = 60
DU_LIGHT_CYCLE_TIME = 60

SX_UTURN_DELAY = 50
PCL_SIZE = 65536
PCL_NUMBER = 15
PCL_FACTOR = 1000
PCL_TOD_FACTOR = 800
MAX_OPEN_FILES = 2
PM_LAYERS="0"
RP_LAYERS="01234"

DB_NAME = ADB0751
DB_PATH = .\

Tim

Sorry, I some how didn't get all the file. The only difference should be the database name. Can anyone define ALL the lines and what they do?

CONFIG_PATH = .\
CONFIG_DEF_FILE = config.def
PARSE_DEFINITIONS = parse.e1

SX_DISTANCES = 52800|132000|264000|528000|52800000
SX_MAXPATHS = 3|3|3|3|3|3
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER0 = 18|18|18|18|18|32
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER1 = 36|36|36|36|36|50
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER2 = 4|4|4|4|4|15
SX_SUPRESS_LIMITS_LAYER3 = 6|6|6|6|6|8
SX_HEUR_FACTOR = 1|1|1|1|1|1
SX_GCOST_SCALE = 80|80|80|80|80|80
SX_IV_SCALE = 100|100|100|100|100|100
SX_NUM_BLOCKS = 30|30|45|45|45|45
SX_TERMCNT = 175|150|150|150|70|70

SX_RAMP_TO_STREET_DELAY = 60
SX_STREET_TO_RAMP_DELAY = 60
DU_LIGHT_CYCLE_TIME = 60

SX_UTURN_DELAY = 50
PCL_SIZE = 65536
PCL_NUMBER = 15
PCL_FACTOR = 1000
PCL_TOD_FACTOR = 800
MAX_OPEN_FILES = 2
PM_LAYERS="0"
RP_LAYERS="01234"

DB_NAME = ADB0758
DB_PATH = .\

JeffNY

When I bought my '99 TL Navi I am almost certain the salesman said that if I needed more detail in an area or an additional area they may be able to help...and inquire when I need that (after I had the car). I wonder if there is some customization that can be done if you have the original CD' software the dealers have? And since Calluna now makes a 1024MB PCMCIA drive maybe at least two map areas could be fit on one drive if the software in the Nav computer supports it?

It's a shame, a 20GB 2.5" Internal ATA/IDE drive can be bought for $88 bucks now. Anybody know how the PCMCIA slot interfaces to the Nav computer? ATA/IDE? If I was sure this would work....I'd take out the PCMCIA slot, buy the latest DVD map disk, install the data on a 2.5" ATA/IDE drive, then install the 2.5" drive in my TL's Nav computer. Then have the whole county on my system

I'll even buy the DVD map disk if this would work! I wrote to Alpine about this...never got a reply.

Anybody have any hardware specs on the hard drive and DVD drive versions of the Nav computers? ...I'm tempted now to rip mine out and inspect it (and take digital pics to post for all to see).

I also don't know why Alpine doesn't sell the installer and map disks (for the hard drive model) to the public (like they do the DVD disk)? PCMCIA readers are now cheap, and people could make their own map hard dives (and if you had 1024MB drives maps with larger areas)! Instead of supporting the end-user (and making money off us) they ignor us.

Alpine seems to have left us hard drive users to wither, and could care less about us. And Acura doesn't seem to really want to address the issue (except to offer to sell you a new DVD Nav computer to replace your hard drive unit).

You know what else gets me? How is it DeLorme can fit the entire U.S. map database (with ALL streets) on a single 650MB CD and Alpine/NavTech CAN'T?

If anybody knows where I can get a copy of the hard drive map installer software (or all 7 regions) or DVD disk please let me know. I do not support software piracy. Buy three things come into play:
1. I already have a license to use the map data (at least my to my current version).....is there even a "software license" per say?
2. It is NOT illegal to use any software "for testing purposes"
3. The hard drive Nav computer seems to be an abandoned product by Alpine/Acura....when is the last map update they released?

Thanks!
Jeff-

JeffNY

Just some additional thoughts;

I can't help but think the hard drive Nav computer and DVD version are very similar. Geez....DVD-ROM drives are cheap enough....if the HD version uses and ATA/IDE interface to interface to the PCMCIA slot you may be able to plug a DVD-ROM drive right in and have it work! (once you had power to the drive somehow...the DVD drive would probably require 12V and 5V...and draw more current than the 1.8" Calluna PCMCIA drive...but a 20GB 2.5" HD may not be a problem, I can check the power specs on both...the HD is also likely faster than the DVD drive)

The differences between the HD and DVD version I'm interested in are:
- Boot ROM differences?
- RAM Size (we ought to be able to read that off the chips), the DVD software may need more RAM
- CPU speed (this probably wouldn't matter...just curious)
- What DVD-ROM drive mechanism are they using? How is it configured (look for any block jumpers on the back of the drive)

....I imagine the original HD version and early DVD Navi computers are very similar (except for the drives employed). Although I suspect todays DVD unit may be faster and have enhancments (since they now support voice input).

If anybody already has a HD or DVD unit out of their car and lying around, can you pop off the cover and take some digital pics?

Can anyone tell me if the HD and DVD units are physically the same size? Can anyone shoot me a picture of a DVD unit in the trunk? ....don't think I ever actually looked at one!

Jeff-

jjpark

Larry: I wish you lived closer, I'd love to play around with those settings in the boot file. I would try leaving a few of the parameters blank and seeing how the NAV logic reacts (observing its error handling). For example, instead of:

DB_NAME = ADB0758

edit to:

DB_NAME =

And do so with the top 3 parameters as well. In addition, could you send/post what's in the config.def and parse.e1 files?

JeffNY: A 20GB drive would be nice, but the NAV probably uses DOS for a reason. And DOS can support a maximum partition size of 2.1GB (I believe). As far as DeLorme (or other PC atlas apps), they use compression. Since it will be on a PC, decompressing the files aren't a problem. On an onboard NAV, the system's core probably won't be a lightning fast Gigahertz system. Good luck man!

Jung

JeffNY

JJ: "DOS can support a maximum partition size of 2.1GB (I believe)."

Good point; but as Paul in the "1999 TL nav files for other regions" thread pointed out, he sees the drive as a "DOS FAT" drive when he plugged it into his computer....he didn't specify if it's DOS FAT 16 or DOS FAT 32 however. I suspect it's DOS FAT 32, in which case a 260 MB to 8 GB partition is possible and would have a 4 kilobytes cluster size. Still pretty small. (BTW FAT 32 supports drives up to 2 terabytes)

Now, I suspect Alpine used DOS FAT 32 in anticipation of the DVD model when they designed the HD model for simplicity and continuity sake....they released the DVD model only "months" later.

How can we test if the HD Nav computer supports DOS FAT 32? Don't know right now....the PCMCIA hard drive may be formated as FAT 16. I have a Apple PowerBook...I can insert the drive in my Mac (which supports DOS drives) but not sure I have DOS utility software....although I do have VirtualPC and Win95 and Win98....maybe there is some system utility that would tell me? Any of you PC guys know a quick ansewer for this? I'm a long time computer builder/user...but spend most of my time on Macs.

BUT keep in mind, the PCMCIA drive may be formated as FAT 16, but the firmware in the HD Nav computer may still support FAT 32....so to get a definate ansewer we need the Firmware info/version used in the HD Nav computer.....how can we do this? Hummmm...you PC guys would know better than I, but here is a suggestion; I have a PCMCIA to SmartMedia card reader for my digital camera....I have an 8MB and 64MB SmartMedia card. Is there a PC application I can put on the 64MB card (that will run at boot up), then put that in my Nav computers PCMCIA slot...then start my car to run the program...that will create a system profile for my HD Nav computer (Firmware, CPU, speed, RAM, interfaces, ect.)...and save that to the memory card...that I can then put back in my notebook and read back? Possible?

I will start a Spec page for hardware and software specs for the HD and DVD units....send me any info you have!!

Jeff-

JeffNY

Ok, the Navi Spec page has been started:
http://acmenet.net/~jeffny/navi.html

...I will add and update as fast as I can. Maybe in a very short time we'll have detailed hardware and software specs. DVD model users I need info on your system too!

Larry Chisum

A couple of random thoughts about the above thread:

1. I believe the PCMCIA drive must be formatted in FAT (Not FAT32) to work in the HD Navi system.

2. I believe that no matter what you do to the boot and cfg files, and how large capacity a hard drive you have, you are stuck with a one region system, unless you can integrate the data files. I don't mean separate sets of data files, and I don't mean appending data files, I mean integrating the data from the individual region unique files into a composite file for that filetype, i.e., .CAS .CAX, etc.

3. There have been several posts in the past by various authors who say the DVD trunk box can be plug exchanged with the HD trunk box. If true, and you can find a good deal on a DVD trunk box, this seems to be the simplest way to get fulltime coverage of all the regions.

My 2 cents,

Larry

JeffNY

Larry,

Thanks for the input. I was hoping you'd jump in...you seem to know a lot about PC files.

>>I believe the PCMCIA drive must be formatted in FAT (Not FAT32)<<

Maybe. But the firmware (BIOS) may still support FAT 32. MS added FAT32 support to Win'95 ages ago! And I'm thinking Alpine knew they'd be dealing with Gigabytes of data at some point and used it (ie included support for it in the BIOS firmware). How can we check this?


>>you are stuck with a one region system, unless you can integrate the data files.<<

No, I'm thinking we take out the PCMCIA slot/interface and install an internal 10GB or 20GB 2.5" hard drive that has the DVD map data and files on it OR see if we can plug in a DVD ROM drive....both the 2.5" HD and DVD-ROM drives are cheap now. I think trying to hack in a DVD-ROM drive would be a hassle though. But a 2.5" HD (like you find in notebook computers) are pretty small...just need a cable and a way to mount it...which may be easy.


>>who say the DVD trunk box can be plug exchanged with the HD trunk box<<

Yes but I started to look around for one. I think we're looking at $350 to $600 for one (used)? If a 2.5" HD works your looking at $50 to $90 for a 10GB to 20GB drive....then you just need the DVD data to copy over to it (if it would work!).

I was just on NavTechs site, man, they support a lot of makes/models. I'm thinking their software can't be too machine specific.

Can you help me compile data on the hardware specs for the HD and DVD models?

Thanks!
Jeff

jjpark

Jeff:

Ahh, could be FAT32, true. If you know someone with a PC, you can find out partition info via the FDISK utility. Or Partition Magic would tell you as well. If it tells you FAT16, try converting it to FAT32 with Partition Magic or other partitioning app. Just be sure to take an image of the original drive first (Norton Ghost, Imagecast, etc). Without finding the firmware ver, this would at least let you know whether FAT32 is poss.

Not sure about using a PCMCIA interface to run an app from a flash card. Generally, unless you're in some plug'n'play environment (definitely not DOS), you need drivers specific for the device as well as the interface. Thus, unless the NAV already has the drivers, it won't be able to read from a DVD-ROM drive. Copying the files from the DVD to a larger HDD could be feasible! Again, just use an imaging and a partition app to test the combinations.

BTW, how is the HDD hardware set up? Is there a PCMCIA interface connected to a casing with a HDD inside the case? If so, it'd definitely be easy to swap out the drive for a larger one.

Thanks for hosting a site with info. I wish I had NAV to help.


Larry:
It's possible that the NAV software can parse delimited list of filename types. On the other hand, it's not likely. I develop enterprise backends for a living. Wanna send me some files to look at?

Jung

JeffNY

JJ: >>try converting it to FAT32 with Partition Magic or other partitioning app.<<

Thanks, good suggestion....

Ok, additional info I've found out in the past 24 hours (I'm on a mission!!)

1. I can't insert my Type III card (hard drive) directly into my PowerBook (2000, Pismo model)....dang...I need a $25 adapter (+$10 shipping!). It should work directly in my brothers old PowerBook 1400 though...but I'm ordering the adapter. I really wanted to get a look at the files, but I guess that'll have to wait till next week.

2. Power consumption: It appears the 520MB Calluna drive uses 0.6 Amps. My old 2.5" 6GB IBM TravelStar only uses 0.5A! (that drive came out of my PowerBook when I installed a 40GB drive) So power consumption should not be an issue.

3. Here are two companies that sell PCMCIA-to-IDE 2.5" HDD External adapters...
http://www.psism.com/idehdd.htm
http://www.cablesonline.net/25pcmciapide.html
....about $90, then you add your own 2.5" drive ($50-$90). Interesting....I'll probably need one to load the DVD data to the HD, but you could also use this "adapter" to plug your big HD right into the HD Navi computer...just would need to mount the external drive case somewhere (think there are already mounting holes in the HD Nav computer bracket...for the CD Changer?). I'd prefer an internal drive installation, but if that's not possible this may work, and be easier for those people who'd rather not take their HD Nav computers apart.

4. It looks like Toshiba is coming out with 5GB (1.8") PCMCIA drives.....if so, and you can use the data from a DVD map disk, you would just need to copy the files to it then slide the drive back in your HD Navi!!! BUT....cost???? $100 bucks is one thing....$300 is another....I need to research this more...
http://www.span.com/system/index.htm
....this would be the most elegant solution if it works. Just pop out your 520MB and slide in the 5GB! Simple and fast.

5. Drive ID: One problem I see in using a hard drive to hold the DVD map data is that at boot the computer may look for DVD drive, say, F: drive instead of, say, C: drive. Will have to see if there is a way to change the drive ID if needed.....OR it may be possible Alpine used a single drive ID on both platforms for simplicity. We'll see.

6. DVD-ROM size: How big are the DVD ROM disks used in the DVD system? 4.9GB? Is that the biggest disk the DVD Nav drive can use? Or can it also read the "DVD-9" disks? I need to learn more about the various DVD formats....just wondering if a 5GB hard drive is sufficient to hold all the map data of current DVD map disks? Or will 9GB DVD map disks come out at some point? AND even a 5GB may not be sufficient after formatting. Need to see what's on current DVD map disks....how many GB are used? Can anyone put one in their comptuer and look?

7. DVD map disks: What versions were released and when? Anyone know? I'm worried only early version DVD disks may work. Once I have the hardware set up testing the various versions should be easy. Does anyone have a DVD map disk I can borrow? Or can I borrow your backup copy for testing? As I stated before, it is NOT illegal to use any software for testing purposes. If it works I WILL buy my own map disk. I just don't want to plunk down $150 bucks for a coaster. Crazy thing is, even though Alpine turned their backs on us our work here could net them thousands of dollars! You're Welcome Alpine and Acura!!!

8. I may take my Navi box apart this weekend...actually looks pretty easy.

9. I lost my camera case!! Got home, took a few more shots of my Nav computer, then checked my oil....went in the house and took some pics of my drives....now my camera case is missing...this stuff drives me crazy. Where could it go!! Geez...


Someone who works at Alpine (or an Acura dealership) could probably really help out with info/specs. If you want to help annoynomously thats fine! My email address is on the Navi Spec web page...

Jeff-

JeffNY

Meant to mention, Fuji and Olympus are starting to use their new "xD Picture Card" flash storage media. A card about half the size of a SmartMedia card that will eventually hold upto 8GB...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0207/02...fujifilmxd.asp

Too bad we can't buy a PCMCIA-to-xD Card adapter and a 5GB "card" for $100 bucks to hold the DVD map data....maybe in three years...

JeffNY

The info below is from a PDF spec sheet I just downloaded from Calluna. I suspect when I pop the cover off my HD Nav computer I'm going to find the exact same ATA controller used almost any PC notebook circa 1999...it's the cheapest way to go. And why impliment a full PCMCIA interface if you don't need it? I'm also willing to bet Alpine has the hard drive at the same exact ATA bus location as the DVD drive used in the DVD version

I bet all we need is a $5 cable to connect a 2.5" hard drive to the Nav computer...

Jeff

IDE and PCMCIA Interfaces
Every Callunacard will operate with a PC
CARD-ATA or a 68 pin ATA (IDE)interface
and will automatically configure to the
interface type used in the socket.
In 68 pin ATA mode dual drive (Master/Slave,
Drive 0/Drive 1) protocol is supported.
Data can also be transported between PC
CARD-ATA and 68 pin ATA sockets.

JeffNY

Well, the HD Nav computer is out of my car. I unplugged the four cables going into it before I left work, to be sure the climate control still worked Ok. It seems to. Which is good, it's only about 30 degrees out.

When I got home I took out the 4 screws that hold it in the frame (with a cloth under it to be keep it from dropping inside the frame). Then I worked it out of the frame (mounting bracket). I marred up the sides a bit...it fits tight in the frame. I'll put tape over the inside of the frames screw holes when I put it back in I think to avoid any more scrape marks on the Nav computers sides...back in the frame you shouldn't see them anyway.

I almost had the top of the Nav computer off but Alpine used two super tiny Philips head screws to hold the face plate to the cover...and my tiny screw set is at work!

Anyway, in a day or two I hope to have shots of the motherboard and inside on the web site...

paulmooney

FYI...I was able to download and try several shareware programs that would allow the Calluna to be formatted as FAT32 and Windows was happy with the drive but the nav system says "hard drive reading error...wrong type drive" on boot up.

I believe that closes the door on the idea of using something like the Toshiba MK5002MPL 1.8" 5Gb pcmcia drive in the unit.

I think its better to convert to DVD or keep using one or a set of 520Mb drives with the right set of reloaded data files.

Paul

JeffNY

Paul, thanks for testing that. That's unfortunate you got that error. That sure doesn't help us. Well, once I get this cover off we'll see what's inside. We need a DVD Nav computer owner to crack open his case and show us what's in there too....anybody out there?

Wonder if the ROMs are in sockets? Well, I'm not even going to get into that now...

JeffNY

>>I think its better to convert to DVD or keep using one or a set of 520Mb drives with the right set of reloaded data files. <<

You think its better now...but if we get it working I bet you change your mind

There is always the chance this won't work. But don't give up yet...I don't even have the cover off the Nav computer yet!

At a minimum it will be a learning experiance. I always wondered what was inside this thing...and how it worked. I'm still having fun. The interesting (and harder thing) is figuring out the software in this "closed" system...but hey, I bet there is an x86 processor in there. It's going to share a lot of PC hardware and software. There are ways to learn things heehee

I already have an idea how the software works...your going to have some Acura/Alpine specific software (the startup Acura screen, A/C control when you press the A/C button, system preference control like screen brightness, clock control, voice level, ect), then you have Navtechs map software (that takes over when you press the map button). It really can't be that complicated.

JeffNY

The cover is off; there is a single printed circut motherboard, all components appear to be surface mount...
- There appears to be 4 Hitachi RAM chips
- There appears to be 2 Hitachi ROM chips
- The processor and most other main semiconductors say "Alpine"...but after some snooping on the web I suspect some or all may be Philips parts...I am curious about what type CPU this is
- There is a Pioneer GPS-R0186zz GPS reciever mounted to the motherboard
- There is a 3V lithium battery (mines a Sanyo)
- The PCMCIA card slot is mounted directly to the motherboard (no cable)
- There appears to be two 30 pin connectors on the left edge of the boad where a ribbon cable connector(s) could be mounted (for an IDE/ATA connector to connect to a DVD drive? ...I'd love to see the motherboard in the DVD model to compare it to)

...I will start looking up semiconductor part numbers when I have more time. Hope to have pictures up shortly.

Oh, and I found my camera case...I know you were all concerned about that

Jeff

JeffNY

I was just re-reading a reply to my post in the "alt.autos.acura" newsgroup from July '02: This is what "Dave" told me...

"Hmm, that's an interesting idea. AFAIK the DVD simply contains the data from
the various CD-ROMs, separated into multiple folders. However, there may be
some "directory" data that you have to massage, and I'm sure they have their
own proprietary format for that.

You probably knew that all of the harddisk, CD-ROM and DVD-ROM data on the
Navi are PC-readable. Does someone want to crack their storage scheme? I don't
have the time or energy to do it."

....we need to find Dave again

I have pictures, but want better close ups of the IC's on the motherboard. Look for them early tomorrow morning (I'useing my machine at work to do the web page stuff).

Jeff-

JeffNY

The pictures of the inside of the HD Nav Computer have been added...

http://acmenet.net/~jeffny/navi.html

JeffNY

Hummm...why did Pauls NavComputer not work with FAT32? I see three possibilities (there may be more...):

1. The Alpine/Acura software simply looks for a particular "pattern" or code in the boot block of the hard drive...and if it's not FAT16 (...we >>assume<< THAT is the problem now...) it just fails and pukes out the error message. If this is the only problem maybe we just need to disable that code?

2. The ROM firmware does not contain the code to support FAT32 addressing. We will need some good software tools to correct THAT.

3. The ATA controller may also not support the required addressing for FAT32...we'll know that when we track down the tech specs for the chip (and make sure all address lines from the ATA controller are routed to the PCMCIA connector)


Do PCMCIA hard drives use "drivers" (stored in the boot blocks on the drive) like traditional hard drives? What's interesting is that my SmartMedia cards mount on my desktop like a DOS "disk drive"...how does that work? We need a hard drive expert and SmartMedia/CompactFlash expert to explain how these cards are "formatted" to look like physical disks...and how PCMCIA addressing works. I search the net...


ALSO; From what I've seen all the data stored on the PCMCIA hard disks (and DVD?) relates to map data only...no Alpine/Acura "OS" or "control" software....that all appears to reside in ROM? I bet even the Acura startup screen is in ROM. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, if anybody has time, see if you can look up the CPU, memory and ATA controller part numbers off the ICs....that will fill in a lot of the hardware picture. NOTE: You'll see a lot of numbers like "9903" and "9905" stamped on the chips, I believe those are just code dates (when the chips were made).

Man, I really need to catch up my work at my real job...this "project" has taken a lot of time...I don't mind but my desk is a mess now...

Jeff-

JeffNY

Oh! And we got speech/audio!!
Audio Interface lines to the Bose? From which connector?
Audio IC? Or is the processor fast enough for speech? Or is it using recorded voice samples stored in ROM (...more likely)?
...almost forgot about the "In a half mile..." girl

JeffNY

Update: I'm still trying to find out what kind of processor our HD Nav Computers use...no luck yet, but I have some good leads. Also....

1. Can anyone who has access to the files on the PCMCIA hard drive look inside these two applications(?) and see what software created them? That may help us find out what type processor our Nav Computers use:
APL ALP 155,960 12-09-98 9:37a APL.ALP
ILKA ALP 1,722,584 08-03-00 2:34p ILKA.ALP
...can't wait for my Type III card adapter

2. Can anyone compare the applications above to the versions used on the DVD disk? Are they the same applications? Can you put the DVD version on the hard drive and see if it works? This may tell us if the DVD apps run on our systems (hope there is enough RAM)...

3. I'm working on adding a web page that details the software used in the HD Nav Computer

4. Sooooo......did you guys like the pictures I took?

Jeff

paulmooney

Looks like C code from the naming conventions of variable names and appearance of reserve words. Its a mix of binary code and the hard coded messages that appear on the screen.

I renamed the .alp files as .exe's but windows said they were not executed.

I believe ILKA.alp is the system software since it has the file date that matches my upgrade to 2.01.