Brick3

I replaced my heads after a head job but it will not crank. (Some of you guys helped me with this a month ago.) I get an occasional firing sound from a few cylinders but my 03 tls will not crank. I have gas in the cylinders and it is firing according to my cheap in-line test light. The plugs are very wet. I did not buy the expensive plugs I have been reading about (these were about 2-4 dollars each). They sold them to me, but I just told them I has an Acura tls and they brought them to the counter. They may be autolites or something. I do have reasonable compression I think (approximately 150lbs each give or take a little).
By the way I rechecked my timing and it is still good. I turned to white mark on crank pulley and the two marks on the cam pulleys line up within a 1/4 tooth. In other words to change to the next grip on the belt either way would put me an entire tooth or a little more off.

Rejckt

iTrader: (2)

If your plugs are wet, wouldn't that mean they are flooded?

01tl4tl

A; put the correct plugs in it-NGK Iridium or NGK Platinum-thats all there is to say--anything else will cause major problems because of the TL's hi energy ignition.
you may have melted them already!!
B: wet plugs mean not firing--ck coils- fuse for ignition

Brick3

The plugs are not melted, they never really fired. I have an in line light that hooks up to the load or secondary side of the plug coil and I can see the light blinking as the engine rotates. I did not try all the plugs, just the easy ones in front. The flooding mentioned by Rejct must be the result of trying to turn it over without it cranking too many times. I am going to change the plugs anyway I guess.

phee

iTrader: (5)

Make sure all your grounds are in tact. Run a 0guage wire from your manifold to the car body. If it starts then you have a ground fault in the engine bay

Brick3

I tried to start over with new thread but was locked. I guess I should just keep this one. I checked my grounds and changed to NGK Iridiums. My TLS tries sometimes but mostly just turns over. Can the CMP's be an issue or the PCM. I do have voltage at the coil with the key on.

Brick3

Could there be an immobilizing issue ?

totaledTL

Green key icon on dash flashes?

phee

iTrader: (5)

Try runnig that wire

fsttyms1

Yes, there is no need to start a new thread about it when you have this one going.

fsttyms1

Ok first things first. Are you 100% positive that the timing is correct. Did you do the work or a shop? Replace both heads or just 1? Make sure ALL connections are on (crank position sensor and TDK sensor) If the motor is cranking but not firing and you have spark and fuel like you say it sounds like a timing issue.

phee

iTrader: (5)

Are you sure you're not at bottom dead center? I have seen it.

fsttyms1

Sounds like its 180 off.

Brick3

All my marks are dead on, the crank has to go around twice for the cam pulleys to line up with and all my marks lines up. I'm not sure what else I can do about that. When it tries to fire, it's as though as it runs a second then only turns over by the starter most of the time. Sometimes it tries right when I'm letting go of the key switch and what little it does is fairly smooth. I do not always get a spark but I know I'm getting fuel. I will run the wire and check for key icon. Someone said the my tach should show rpm's if the crank sensor is working. Is that true?

phee

iTrader: (5)

No

J35TL-S

Double check your work. You might of misalign the timing markers, forgot to plug something back up, grounds, or have a disconnected vacuum line.

Brick3

I have fire at every plug now ( after new iridium plugs, tightened and reconnected several ground locations, disconnected and reconnected connectors per your suggestions) but experiencing some popping from intake and exhaust. No real cranking yet. My timing marks look so close. With my 2 cam pulleys on the marks, my crank pulley is a little off (real small less than width of dime) but on the counter clockwise side away from the three red marks. If I'm going to be off a little should try a tooth so that it falls between the white and reds ?

fsttyms1

Im still thinking you are 180 off, especially with your last post of popping from intake and exhaust.

J35TL-S

Here's the markers:

wilp99

sounds to be 180 out to me too.

Brick3

Ok, I'm going to work on timing. I see the diagrams j35tls and thanks. I've been using very similar diagrams and thought I was dead on. I am a little confused with the 180 degree off remarks. Wouldn't I have to have the timing gear practically upside down or something. It only goes on one way. I can't visualize what I did to create that situation. One thing I have been doing is looking at the white dot on the harmonic balancer since the I can't see the gears and mark, they are covered by the larger pulley. I know I'm supposed to look through the hole in the plastic cam gear cover for that, but I thought it was the same as the marks on the end plate and notch on the gear itself.

fsttyms1

No, the top cam gears can line up 100% but if you rotated your crank 360 Deg you would be 180 deg off. If you only lined up 1 mark it doesnt mean the crank or pulleys were at TDC.

Go out side and rotate your crank gear 1 full turn and see if the timing marks line up. Im betting They wont. That is why YOU HAVE TO (when you go to disassemble) Make sure the arrow on the lower timing belt cover lines up with the notch in the crank pulley (its not a harmonic balancer) and ALSO make sure the line on the cam gears lines up with the V on the inspection hole or mark on the plate. If they dont you HAVE to rotate the motor 1 more revolution. The motor needs to make 2 full revolutions to make 1 full stroke.

When you took every thing apart did you line every thing up (cam gear marks AND crank mark) to TDC or just rip into it? It sound like when you went to put every thing together you just rotated the crank to line up the mark, but it was at the bottom of its stroke (or 180 off) and needed 1 more rotation.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i take paypal

Brick3

Ok, I lined up everything first before I put back together , but it takes 2 revs of crank pulley(not harmonic balancer, sorry) to line up the cam I know, but starting off I had it lined up ( all three mark) but I am confused about the crank turned one more 360 degrees, I just thought that the #1 piston was up every time. Ok, then maybe the crank sensor needs the rotation ??? The crank sensor knows its on the second turn or module counts it. So I need to make sure no valves are open or take off rocker arm shafts and turn one full rev and replace timing belt ?

fsttyms1

The crank sensor cant be rotated. Its a fixed location sensor. It just picks up points on the timing belt gear.

Go out and pull the #1 plug and have someone by hand rotate the motor. If when he makes the rotation (where the crank and cam marks line up) and its at TDC you feel air blow out you are at TDC. If not you are 180 off.

Brick3

When my 3 marks come around you can feel the air. You do not feel nearly as much when only the crank comes to mark without the cam gears' marks. The exhaust valves are open I assume. I thought that I was good when I checked the compression and got an average of around 140 to 160 lbs pressure before as far as the mechanical timing was concerned. I did not mean the sensor needed to be rotated, I meant the crank pulley, sorry. I just pulled the covers, belts and pulley back off and the timing still look perfect. If I tried to move it one tooth, it would be way off compared to what I have now. I got all the plugs to fire, I just don't know when they are firing compared to the stroke. I lost.

fsttyms1

Just to make sure, Which Cyl did you test?


firewall
123
456

Firing order 142536

01tl4tl

kris--do I and most of azine (where I learned this) have the cyl numbering wrong?
Its oft been said rear was 123 front 456

fsttyms1

No, You have it right. I fixed my oops. I was on my phone and a hurry and it got screwed up.

Brick3

Yes, I know the firing order but testing one plug at a time while my daughter bumped the starter was all I could think to trouble shoot. I just couldn't tell if they were firing at the right time. When I rotate by wrench the #1 cylinder does compress. That is starting w/ tdc ( all 3 marks lined up) first rotation, so my mechanical timing is on I guess. I even forced air through into each of the cylinders at each compression stage to see if I had messed up my valves somehow but if I had not braced my ratchet it would have probably twisted my arm. The gauge was showing that I was putting in approximately 150 pounds but that's about all my air compressor will do anyway. I changed my timing by one tooth on the crank shaft tonight. On the cam gears it shows up as about a half or less a tooth off. I going to try to crank it again tomorrow. I am appreciating your feedback. Thanks.

Brick3

Excuse me but I believe that the compression on #1 occurred just before the cams and crank were tdc. sorry.

fsttyms1

Are you sure you have the 2 sensors behind the front cam gear plugged in? And the crank position sensor plugged in?

Brick3

I checked all connections, I even looked to see if the 2 cam sensors could be backwards but the wires were short and long for the close and farther one. I did see a small nick in the wire on top of the connector, so I've looked close as I could. I pulled it to the machine and auto repair shop today. My pride was killing me but it was time I guess. That was the guy who repaired my head. I'll let you know what the verdict is. Thanks for your help.

01tl4tl

cylinder leakdown test will reveal bent valve- if present

Brick3

I'll find out soon I hope. I'll post back with info. I hope it's cheap, whatever it is.

01tl4tl

do you mean compared to blowing the engine completely?

Brick3

Finally got someone to look at my tl and found that the crank sensor was bad. My timing was good as well as the valve job. At first I had a couple of mechanics say it probably would not be a crank sensor since they don't go bad often. So I listened and did not bother to replace it at that time. I should have changed it anyway. It runs a little rough now and I got misfire codes. Cranks right up now, but after a time it goes into limp mode when I drive it several miles. So I'm still not out of the woods yet. By the way, it got real hot between the seats at the center console.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Leave your personal endeavors with your female companions at home. People are trying to fix your car here.