digitalextremes

Can anyone help me with the layout....I have the fuel injectors opened but trying to find out which one belongs to which cylinder number? there are no numbers marked anywhere....

juanclopez2786

iTrader: (3)

it doesnt matter what injector goes where.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

what he said

01tl4tl

why are your injectors open-out removed what?

totaledTL

Maybe he means they are all unplugged and is uncertain where to plug in ea. connector-

jdjohn84

The subject line also makes it sound like he thinks that one fuel injector could be for multiple cylinders. There is one per cylinder, digitalx.

digitalextremes

Thanks guys, I actually got my car checked by Honda and was told that three of the injectors are bad, once I opened the manifold, I didn't know which injectors are for cylinder 1,3,4

but I got some help from a different post and figured out and replaced the correct three injectors

firewall
123
456
grille

acurabum

What they were making noice , the injectors ?Why are they bad ?

01tl4tl

sounds like shop bs- someone else was told injectors recently and it was just dirty

Seafoam that thing with 1 can in 1/2 tank- do that twice= will clean the injectors for you

digitalextremes

my car has about 290k on it....recently when I started the car in the morning the engine light started to light up and tell me my cylinder 1, 3 have misfired and eventually within 1-2 days the code will reflect that all cylinders are misfiring. I tested it for about a month and it was always 1 and 3 and there were no issues with horsepower (never felt anything lacking in the power) so it wasn't any of the coil packs.

So I figured injectors were leaking, once I pulled the injectors out I replaced 1, 3 and 6 because the bottom tip of 6 was broken....now things are good so far no misfire codes during engine start in the morning. The dealer told me 1,3 the first time I got my car diagnostics and I had to shell out $120 for that...then I picked up the code reader from Canadian Tire for sale one day for $89 and checked my codes for about a month to get to the above conclusion.

01tl4tl

I would pull the spark plugs on the offending cylinders for inspection
Since you did find a broken part on at least one, make sure everything looks good by checking plugs,
they are tellers of how the combustion and other parts are working, even diagnosis pics online!

thats a lot of kms or miles!- its helpful to include your year-miles when trying to work out odd problems- thanks!

the coil packs have an odd failure, keep an eye on those, most often noticed with rough idle

Have you done the EGR port cleaning of the intake manifold?

digitalextremes

I seafoamed but didn't fix the issue 4 mths ago then I replaced all spark plugs 3.5 months ago, it didn't help
I replaced 3 injectors last week and cleaned the EGR port while I had the intake manifold opened up and I was confident that this would fix the issue of misfire, this morning I got the misfire code for cylinder 4, 5,6

I am back to square one...not sure what to look for......can't be all coil packs bad since the misfire codes move around...also the thing to keep in mind is that the misfire code(s) only come up at cold start and I don't feel much different in car's power except for this morning when I stopped at red lights, I felt the rpm being low close to 600rpm making the car shake a little bit (I guess this could be related to a coil pack but in that case shouldn't the same cylinder misfire all the time instead of 3 cylinders misfiring at cold start.....I am loosing hope at this time after spending my Saturday on replacing the fuel injectors, any help based on experience or knowledge would be appreciated...

01tl4tl

a weak coil can give misfire code and the computer OFTEN spits out multiple cyl misfires when it does,, a great opportunity for service writers~
Codes are CLUES not Diagnosis
the real prob is just 1 bad coil- you buy 1 for 40-50 bucks and install it on the first offending cyl according to the codes- RESET ECU- if not better idle/running move new coil to next possible cyl-reset ecu

It may be one of the ones the car says- but not always, so keep trying with ecu reset each time so the system test and relearn runs

have you been resetting the ecu each time you do something?

digitalextremes

What would be the reason for the code to come up always only at cold start (right when the car is started in the morning or after few hours of sitting in the garage)? I thought that was related to a leaking injector...

I did the coil pack test by starting the car and disconnecting each coil pack at a time which did seem like all coil packs were working fine because the car would shake as soon as I disconnect the coil pack....I am assuming that this is an intermittent problem that's why I couldn't catch it....so I am going to try the coil pack now, I'll start with cylinder 4 since it has been one of the offenders in most cases.

I will post results in a few weeks since this will take some time. I get the codes once a week on an average.

01tl4tl

are you resetting the ecu by pulling the CLOCK fuse for a minute?

the unplug coil test is not valid- has fooled many here

guessing: cold start shows problem when initial wake up jolt goes thru electrical system

digitalextremes

I am resetting it through the code reader by erasing the data (engine/VSA lights go off as soon as I do that and restart the car). Should I be using the fuse?

it makes sense about the relationship between cold start and the initial call for the current to do the job....I will be replacing all 6 coils tomorrow evening (got them for cheap as a deal) and will post updates in 1-2 weeks.

I am assuming if this doesn't fix the problem then I am going to look at the next thing in the process (where the current is coming from that's provided to the coil packs)

01tl4tl

6 coils would normally be extreme for just a miss.but...fitting of your handle!
Do test each new/used coil before install- there is a resistance spec somewhere
Who has the method and numbers off the top??

Give a try to replacing the offending ones listed by codes and see if that really does fix it - then install the rest because you have really high miles on them and age- its time based on that
That may help others diagnose mystery codes if you had 1 or 3 bad

As I said before- removing those plugs listed and ck for normal color or not- will tell you if that coil is working

I dont know if the obdi will do what we really need for a SYSTEM reset, never heard of anyone NOT disconnecting the power via battery NEG cable or Clock fuse!!

DO THIS: pull the clock fuse (secret backup power for ecu)
- its #12 or 13 on passenger cabin foot area- or edge or dash depending on year

We dont know how long it takes without the secret backup power to the ecu to ~force a reboot-relearn~, but 1 minute with fuse out seems to do the trick, then put it back in.
That saves you inputting the radio security code by using clock fuse

Now on startup the system runs a full self diagnostic when its been without power, similar to shutting of home computer without powering down with the normal shutoff.
Windows will now run a diagnostic....

Might explain your reoccuring codes? they are not really cleared
Do some testing for the rest of us please, we gave been trying to help you!

01tl4tl

check you battery connections and clean them as needed- inside the connector
Also have the cables tested- if your area parts store does free testing- it includes starter draw (a biggie) and alt output,,things you want to know are good!

The main battery cables may be worn out or corrossion on their connections to body/chasis or starter
Always look at grounds and power for electrical probs before replacing expensive parts
is my feeling
Canadian operated cars fall under `severe service` in the book- replace things early and do double maitenance

Good Luck man!- let us know - re-seafoam after coil change since there has been combustion problems you want to clear out the crud

01tl4tl

Dig- I know you replaced all the plugs 4 months ago- but what brand did you use
NGK Iridium or ngk platinum?

not bosch or some cheapo plug right?
those are guaranteed to make the car run bad and will need to come out before it can be resolved

digitalextremes

NGK Iridium IX or something similar, the top of the line I found through this forum before buying.....I never compromised on my car parts.

I got the Coil Packs this morning ($119 CAD for all 6 used taken out of a 2002 TL-S with 100k on that car, look like brand new to me Hitachi original OEMs)

Going to replace all 6 tonight and will post monitor for 1-2 weeks and come back and post results

digitalextremes

I cleaned battery terminals when I took the battery out to do the injectors (made my life easier). I'll re do seafoam tomorrow once I replace the coils tonight. thanks for the valuable information and pointers

fsttyms1

disconnecting 1 coil pack at a time ONLY works if one is dead. They dont have to be dead to cause a misfire.

Have you tried a compression test yet?

Things that usually cause a misfire on these cars are

1). Coilpack
2). Plugs
3). Bad ECU
4). Bad Cyl compression.

digitalextremes

I thought that the coilpack can either be dead or alive and it must be dead to cause misfire (I learned something new today).....I have changed the plugs, changing coils tonight, if this doesn't fix then I will move to the last two items in the process of identifying the issue.

01tl4tl

pull a plug and be certain what you have= there are 2 approved plugs and anything else is not right

Hope this fixes it finally~

digitalextremes

Changed coil packs on Friday and noticed that some of the plugs were loose (I was able to remove them without applying any pressure) so I tightened the plugs a little and changed the coils and no random misfire codes yet.

Will post if I experience any issues but I think the issue is resolved either through tightening the plugs or changing the coil packs or both...(I hope its the coils otherwise I would feel disappointed for finding out that all the work wasn't necessary if I would have checked the plugs to make sure they were tight)

thanks for the tips 01tl4tl and fsttyms1

digitalextremes

unfortunately the engine light came up again with cylinder 4,5 misfiring and a random misfire code.

I have so far replaced all plugs, all coils, 3 injectors, cleaned throttle body, cleaned EGR port, checked battery cables, checked for vacume leaks.......I guess I need to get the dealer look at the electrical signal coming to the coils or look at the fuel regulator....can't think of anything that I check myself....

01tl4tl

you reset the ECU by pulling the clock fuse or the battery neg cable?
MUST do that or it will keep throwing false codes

snug plugs and torqued plugs are different things
Are they correct now?

digitalextremes

I did reset the ECU through the clock fuse this time (previously I did that through the code reader), the plugs were snug not torqued, I tightened them a little bit now.

Also one thing I did was seafoam based on your recommendation in the event I had a bad coil.

I did the above on Wed last week, drive the car from Toronto to Manhattan and back since then (Thu-Monday) and haven't seen any issues yet, something or combination of things fixed the problem it seems like.

I got 600kms in 50 liters on highway while driving from Toronto to New York.

Thanks for your help.

While I was replacing the fuel injectors that were showing up in all misfire codes, I noticed that one of the injectors was broken at the bottom (I replaced it), does it make sense to replace all injectors after seeing the condition of that injector or just replace that and leave the others inside? I replaced 3 and left 3.....I wanted to know if I should just replace the remaining 3 or leave them unless I have an issue in the future...

digitalextremes

01tl4tl, fsttyms1

and everyone else, thank you for all your time/efforts in helping me, I now feel a bit more educated than when I started this thread.

My apologies for not making much sense in my first post in the thread, I had my hands dirty and was typing at the same time as I was working furiously to figure out which one is cylinder 1, 2, 3 and so on so that I can replace the injectors from the cylinders that were misfiring.

01tl4tl

thats what threw us- you asked which injectors instead of asking what was the cylinder numbering...

digitalextremes

ok I got Cylinder 4 misfire code this afternoon as soon as I started the card after it being sitting in the driveway for about 2 hours....cylinder 4 seems to keep showing up everytime.

BTW how tight should be the spark plugs?, do you tighten them all the way until it can't go any further or apply less pressure....is there a way to do this without the torque wrench?

I tightened all the plugs but didn't tighten them too tight and wondering if that's the cause.

I already replaced all coils & all plugs, cleaned EGR port and the throttle body, I replaced 3 injectors (not #4 though) should I change injector 4?

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

i do mine tight (but everyones tight is different) so until they cant move. check compression on the cylinder

01tl4tl

iirc its 14 foot lbs, so plug base contacts surface-- then 2/3- 3/4 of a turn
fairly tight but not superhuman tight
hold ratchet about 6 inches from end and pull snug

plug box should have suggested methods and actual torque
ck plug makers website for more info

digitalextremes

I got the cylinder 4 misfire code and a multiple cylinder misfire code again on this past Saturday morning....I have ordered one more injector now.....will replace #4 now and I am hoping that's it or else it will be time for take it to the dealership and have them look at it and do a compression test, etc (things I haven't already done)

01tl4tl

does the car run bad when you get the code? or has all the work made it right and the computer is generating false codes

dont recall all the details but have you checked battery cables?
a bad ground anywhere will cause problems-
there are several small ground wires on the car if you look around the engine to body/frame and under dash

01tl4tl

pull #4 plug and do a reading- do a compression test then
hows the gas mileage doing?

digitalextremes

car runs smooth, no issues at all, milage is good, I drove to NYC from Toronto and back with about 11 kms per litre.

Can I do a compression test myself by pulling the #4 plug?

waiting for the injector to come in the mail from acura Oem, but I haven't gotten a code again now (yet)

digitalextremes

cleaned battery cables and reinstalled when I had to remove the battery to open the throttle body, etc for the injectors

01tl4tl

yes DIY compression test any or all cylinders you want- remove spark plug- install compression tester- it screws in just like a spark plug
Hold throttle wide open and crank engine several revolutions
noting initial, rise and final readings

cleaned the end of the cables (and all small connector grounds on engine to frame-like from headers to frame) is not the same as testing their resistance..
which increases with age and lowers electric flow thru them
Just an idea to see if getting low voltage false codes
hows the battery itself?

digitalextremes

Battery is about a year old (acura branded)

I will perform the compression test as next step if needed. I think the problem of random misfire is now fully resolved, the solution was to get the valves adjusted. I have 294k on the car so figured I get the valves adjusted (got it done by the dealer) now everything seems smoother and no random misfires at startup so far:

here is what I did in the order so far:

1) Replaced spark plugs
2) Replaced coils
3) Cleaned EGR, replaced 4 injectors out of 6
4) Adjusted In and Ex valves (this finally solved the problem, no random misfires at cold starts)