Hi everyone, first post (newbie). For those of you wondering about DW-1, this is my experience for your references. I purchases a 2003 TL last week with 193000 kms but the tranny was replaced at 130000kms so roughly 40000 miles ago. I was experiencing a slight shudder at approx. 1800 rpm and I could make it shudder by going just the right speed (hard to explain). Anyways I decided after reading for a couple of hours on different sites to go ahead and try the DW-1, so far I did 2 drains + refills and shudder is all gone: I can't even make it happen anymore. I put 200 kms between drains + refills. I didn't replace the switches or reset the ecu yet. The oil drained was slightly discolored and didn't smell too bad, the magnet had 1/16" film of crap on it at the first drain and nothing on the second drain. I'll keep you posted on any changes.

Thanks to everyone on this informative site. If it wasn't for this site I would of probably put up with the shudder until my tranny self distructed.

 

apparently DW-1 is suppose to hold up to higher temperatures better, which we can all use badly. i think the route of our tranny problems is due to high temperature and the z1 fluid breaking down prematurely. since DW-1 is full syn vs. z1 being semi syn. semi syn wont hold up to heat as well. full syn theoretically wont break down nearly as fast. hope for the best. ill being doing a 3 quart drain soon and i plan on using dw-1.

 

Makes sense (gold2003tl), also the synthetic DW-1 will help on those freakin' cold Canadian mornings coming soon.

 

Hmm I might have to look into this as well. I know what you're talking about with the studder just under 2000 rpm while say I'm going like 15KM/h or maybe 20ish. The trans fluids were done last year but I may do them again this year with the new stuff. Let us know if the shudder comes back.

 

full syn will also perform much better at colder temps. its good to hear that the new fluid has some positive feedback. keep us posted.

 

Just bought some of this yesterday (4L), at 8.35 a litre. Wow did I ever need a change, the fluid coming out was close to black it was so bad... It never seemed that bad on the dipstick. Either way, going to drive for about a month and do another drain and fill and do it for the next 3 months or so.

 

The route of our problem is NOT enough fluid can get to the 3rd gear clutchpack. Fluid design has nothing to do with it.

 

the ROOT of the problem is the ROUTE of the oil passages

and their lack of being in a critical area = allows excess heat buildup, causes wear on clutch disc packs--those are very thin metal plates with abrasive material glued on,,
a short stack of them, like pancakes, are put together on the end of each gear shafts
plenty of internal pic and diagrams online if interested in detail analysis

I for one will take our mega moderator- who has personally rebuilt TL transmissions- word for on any info what causes the failure
Well, him and the Senior Tech at my dealer agree,, so I go with that

heat wears out fluid yes- so change it every year to be safe

 

300 kms so far and still no shudder for those of you that wanted me to keep you posted. I agree with 01tl4tl and will be changing the fluid yearly no matter what type or brand is in the tranny.

 

thats not much time to tell if its a fix, or band aid, or genuine duct tape repair~
Whats it do in a month and year??
Drive it for us!!

 

Of course only time will tell for sure if the Honda DW-1 synthetic does infact completely resolve the shudder problem but if it does then it's very compelling to see that merely changing to a synthetic ATF from a conventional could have that much of a positive impact on overall shift quality.

Now I just have to choose whether to switch to the Amsoil synthetic or the Honda DW-1 synthetic.

 

After doing my first drain and fill the other day I have noticed huge improvement, but that's also due to the fact that it had been 2 years since a "flush" was done. The previous owner (close friend) thought he had done it last year so I was somewhat surprised to see how black the fluid came out, but 2 years makes more sense. I bought a case of the DW-1 stuff and will be doing another drain and fill today, then another in 2-3 weeks from now and another again a month after that to try and get rid of most of the old stuff.

I have noticed like the OP that I cannot make the shudder happen that was happening before at ~1800 rpm.

Interesting enough, I didn't think I had an oil jet installed in this one (as the original owner never mentioned anything other than Acura took a look at it a year after he had it and said there were no problems with this one yet), but I saw a picture from another post yesterday of the oil jet and discovered I actually do have one.

 

he was telling you it went in for recall- they did a boroscope inspection and found no excess heat damage to 2nd gear,
if there had been, a replacement trans is installed free

so the external kit was installed and down the road the car goes
That fixed one problem but not the other- the one we still suffer from~

 

Well I checked the VIN, its WAY out of the range of vehicles that were recalled, so I doubt thats what it was. But I guess we will see how it goes, only has 140K KM on it. If the trans goes I'll probably trash it for parts as spending 4000 dollars on a rebuild seems like a stupid idea.

 

Just to clear things up: My original post was not intended to look like I thought that I found a fix for these POS trannys, I was only posting my personal experience with the DW-1 trial since it's a fairly new ATF and maybe some are hesitant to try it and some are just curious to see what it will do or not do. I was only stating the changes noticed after the DW-1 was used in my tranny. In no way am I going against any of the previous posts or trying to sell this DW-1.

 

if its got the oil jet kit- it had the recall done,,covered most 99-03 eventually some 04,maybe 05 in the end,,until they came out with the new case design--(when/why the kit went internal) which I believe we were the test pilots of!

rebuilds at shops are $1600-2500 average, done in your trans case
acuras unit comes in the redesigned post 05 case, which has led to longer lifespan- less dead trans reports but not a perfect work forever unit

 

shift-
you are new- we dont know your backstory/ knowledege specific to the TL and cars in general--the TL is picky on certain things,,trans fluid being one of them
Changing some fluid or all of the fluid at higher miles- with no history of changes- has led to the early death of more than one trans
Low miles on rebuilt--there are choices and keeping up with yearly seems to be the best insurance on whatever your choice is

your test efforts are greatly appreciated..keep us posted,, even if the masses seem skeptical

Did you have a few second shudder that felt like a moving ocean wave? light throttle or medium throttle made it worse?
then it went into gear?

 

It seemed to occure when shifting into 5th while driving at slower speeds (30mph). I could only reproduce it under light throttle and it only happened for like a second before the upshift to 5th. Felt like driving over light rumble strips. Sorry for the lack of discription abilities. Oh and my knowlage of Acura trannys is next to none

When you talk of rebuild trannys on recall, did the dealerships usually replace the 4th + 5th pressure switches while rebuilding the trannys. Just curious in case the shudder returns.

 

Just did the second drain and fill (about 250KM after the last). Fluid definitely seemed more redish than the last batch which I guess is good, but I am going to wait a bit longer to do the next to make sure everything is out of the torque converter.

 

driving 5 minutes shifting up and down thru each and every gear- moves fluid out of the tq and into the drain area

more than that mixes old and new fluid,,the 5 minute method moves fluid rather than blending..
similar to flushing brake fluid- in that new fluid pushes old fluid forward.. if that makes sense

 

Does the fluid feel thinner or thicker than the z1?

 

The stuff coming out was thicker, but it was two years old and I'm not 100% sure Z1 was used as I didnt own the car at the time. But the stuff going in was a little thinner I would say.

 

if a shop did the last change, it was acura fluid if the trans lasted 2 years
dex3 would have killed it a while back

 

Not really. The 5 minutes is to ensure that the fluid is mixed and you're not just draining out the fresh that you just put in. Take a look at the percentage charts for multiple changes. I think they are in the thread "redline racing atf" and on bitog.

 

After reading so many positive replies, I think I am gonna try them as well.

 

trash--those dilution charts mean nothing to me~
always get a laugh from them though!

fluid dynamics pushes the old fluid forward in a pressure driven system
Compare to brake fluid flush/bleed, you are pushing new fluid thru-the old doesnt dilute into it-
it just moves thru the lines to caliper and out the bleeder..dirty- then clean- then more clean --ok -done
A moving fluid system such as trans would be able to mix fluids if allowed

of course I could be wrong about this--just going off acuras info and why they do 5 minute drive on the 3x3--
a procedure which was designed to remove all traces of Dextron3 if even a small amount was added in an emergency!!
Otherwise the book doesnt call for 3x3
in this specific useage, it doesnt want you to mix the fluids--thats one reson to limit drive time,,so it doesnt get a chance to mix--just drive around the block shifting up and down thru each and every gear a few times, then back on the ramps to drain another 3 qts

 

Unlike a brake system, fluid is constantly circulated in an auto trans. Even in neutral, fluid flows from the sump, through the convertor, through the cooler, back to the sump. It's completely circulated in less than five minutes. That's why I mentioned the dilution charts. You are draining out a portion of the new fluid each time you drain. These charts tell you what percentage of new fluid you have after each drain. If the fluid weren't getting mixed each time, you could change 90% of the fluid with 2 changes, not 80 something % with 3 changes.

 

Might as well, soon most wont have any other option. Z1 fluid is completely gone from both Acura dealerships in Calgary, and at least 1 honda (Only called the one). And in regards to posts saying, oh well these people had their trannies go after changing the fluid to DW-1 isn't a good argument as there is no way in telling if the fluid was the cause, or if the time had come. No one can say, If you kept Z1 in there, it would still be running.

 

UPDATE: 2500 kms and still no shudder [fingers crossed]

 

After draining and refill only 3 qts, I think the improvement is quite obvious. I am gonna do 3x3 soon to change the ATF completely.

 

Yea, I've done 2 drain and fills now (about 300KM apart), going to do the third one sometime in the next month or so (1500KM roughly). It was below freezing today and it felt good shifting.

 

The new Acura fluid is:

Thinner than Z1

Semi-syn vs dino (yes, it is not full synthetic as it's marketed nor is Z1 a semi-syn. That's just marketing bs)

Most importantly the new fluid has less friction modifiers which is why it cures the shudder issues. Less FM equals more "grip" or holding power in the clutches.

We have known this for quite some time. This is why many of the 3g people use a type F fluid because it contains no FM. Honda buried their heads in the sand many years ago. The problem has been known and it's as easy as swapping out the super FM Z1 to a less or no FM fluid. It took Honda this many years and countless failures to make the change. I would not buy even their new fluid because I don't want to support them for all they have not done. It's basically a copy of Dextron VI. Get Dex VI or get Redline racing (type F) fluid if you really want good shifts and a long, long transmission life.

This fluid along with switch replacement will cure 3rd gear issues. It won't cure insufficient lube problems.

 

Update: Still have only done 2 drain and fills (waiting for a warm-ish sat to do the 3rd, its been roughly -10C most days lately). Anyways, still no problem at all with the transmission and the new fluid, shifts fine in the cold weather. Fluid still looks very red with only the smell of the fluid noticeable (no burnt sugar smell).