enderwiggins

My supervisor has a stock 2000 GTP. My TL-S is stock also.

He told me he'd kill me. Any opinions?

DJ Iceman

He may WANT to kill you when all he can see is your rear end pulling off into the distance...

enderwiggins

dont they run mid 14s?

Crzy Acura

Yes they do... the stock GTP is a quick car... dont let the ponitac name fool ya.

It would be a great race... try it!! I seen GTPs at the track and they are QUICK!!!

TypeSDragon

My coworker has a 2000 GTP. I never raced him, but he has 240hp and I think 242+ lbs of torque? But they are definitely fast.

fahoumh

Yeah, my cuz has a GTP and it can move! But wouldn't a race b/w a GTP and a TL-S would be close?....we've got more horses but they've got more torque.

seqiro

I had a GTP and I must say it was no slouch. Off the line, it would probably be a pretty close race. But one thing I can say for the GTP is that when you want the power when you're already moving, it's instantaneous from the moment you push the pedal! That supercharger kicks in and you're slammed into your seat.

Paul

jimster716

280 ft-lbs at only 3200 rpm...that's a lot of lowend acceleration...you'll probably take him on the freeway though...

only one way to find out...

eazy_d23

I'm not sure whether you would beat him or not.... but according to http://www.car-stats.com/ ... you should be able to take him...

and for him saying he would "KILL" you.. he definitely won't kill you if he even wins... according to the stats that is...

AKRY

GTP and TLS would be a close race.... but GTP might edge out a bit at beginning with all that torque..... and I agree, GTP is no joke.... and good luck running away from a GTP with aftermarket pulley(s).....

Andy Kuo

samkws

a close call...very close stats for both cars...reallie depneds on the launch...

with 280lb/ft of torque, gives the best 0-30 punch from any car in the class...
like jimster716 said, the only way u can edge him out is bring him to the freeway...otherwise it would be a tie for sure...

also there are lots of aftermarket parts for this underachieved car...there's a GTX package from the dealer that pumps out 20 more hp and more torque by just inserting a RAM AIR system...and i remember they had a limited edition of DAYTONA GTPs back in 98/99 that has 300hp and 300torque!! ALL OEM!!! pontiac is just being too humble for making their car at only 240hp...they should be all come with 300hp!!!

but i suggest you should lose to him if you want to keep your job...he's your supervisor!!! hahahaha:p

bigman

If he is running hi GTP stock, He will run you off the line. If you guys are moving at high speeds you might take him. They are limited at 108 mph. But if he has a 90 pulley upgrade. All you will see is his tail lights from very far away. A 3.4' pulley will get that 240 horses to about 300 and the 280 lb ft of torque turns to a gut busting 320 plus lb ft of torqu. They make pulleys down to 3.0 i believe for that car. Ive seen a 3.0 pulley, borlay cat back, RAT headers, Ram Air, chip piggy back, Shift kit, GTX suspension, run mid 12's. And there was still more engine upgrades that he could do to his car. GP's may be pontiacs and their reliability may be not great, but as far as being a fast car goes, it can be very fast.

samkws

here are the max spd for the grand prix

the GT model (non-supercharged) is 108miles

the GTP model(supercharged) is 125miles

tls988

Road Test results by Motor Trend:

GTP 00 0-60 6.8, 1/4 MILE 15.1/90.8

TLS 0-60 6.3, 1/4 MILE 14.7/97.6

Ruski

I leased a '98 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP for 3 years. It is a great car. Lots of fun. Nice features (Head Up Display is awesome)

I don't trust MotorTrend's numbers for the GTP. Many GTPers run their stock GTPs much better than that. Also Motor Trend clocked Buick Regal GS (same engine and transmission as GTP) at 6.6 seconds.

My only complaint about GTP - slow window motors and dim headlights.

Anyway GTP makes 240HP and 280 lbs*ft of torque. Ths car moves. Also the torque curve is quite flat.

Having said that, I have to admit that I was driving my TL-S a few days ago and raced a GTP. And I won.

We were on a highway with speed limit of 65mph. This highway has a few lights. We ligned up at the red light and then went when it turned green. Actually he started rolling a bit sooner than that. But I quickly passed him before 40mph and kept pulling away from him all the way past 80mph. I think he stopped racing near 80mph.

My victory was quite surprise for me.

typeR

dont trust the tl-S numbers either...this car is capable of very low 6's if launched well....it will be close and the launch will be the determinant...as long as he's stock...you'd never be able to tell if the pulley were different...except for the view of his tails

evolaerok

My brother used to have a GTP, off the line it will be close. If you can launch good you will have a lead all the way. When my brother and I raced I lost a few when I left on VSA and D5. When I turned off VSA and SS I always took him by barely a half a car length. Now on a rolling I almost always won. But remember this my bros GTP was stock and I had CAI. You can do alot of mods on those cars too, so maybe that's why your boss is being cocky.

enderwiggins

starting to feel more confident. i thought the GTP was alot quicker STOCK.

And this guys car IS STOCK. Completely.

I am stock except for i removed the resonator from my air box.
It was more for the sound of the car than anything, but with the bottom of the box open, i should be able to pull some cold air in thru there.

We have to stay late for a group move at my building tonite, but hes taking all of us to dinner first, im going to try and line something up.

Ill let everyone know how it turns out.

Thanks for all the responses.

Oh, more than likely, the defining race will be from a stop light, thats the way i like it.

gruzyxl

Good luck!!! And remember, if you start getting a little behind, just break out a pit maneuver!

-Steve

bigman

What the TLs lacks in torque, it gains in horse power over the GTP and Vice Versa. It depends on the driver. I think the weight of the cars are similar, so it can be very close.

STAGED

The GTP and TL Type S are a close race. On the average at the track stock GTPs can do low 15s to high 14s at 91 to 93 mph and Type S TLs the same e.t. at 92 to 95 mph. A few sharp drivers can squeak the GTP to mid-14s. Off-the-line if you win you'll pull him an continue to do so on top-end. If you lose of the line, it'll be a long race to catch up and pass him (e.g.: if he's a car length ahead out of the hole, you may need to go into triple digit speeds to pass him). 280lbs-ft. torque sounds nice on the GTP but also note that those cars have very loose 3200rpm stall torque convertors (putting those motors in the meat of their powerband) and with enough traction can launch like a V8 muscle car out of the hole. Since my dad has a supercharged 240hp Bonne, I know a great speed to take him on is from a 25 mph roll. Make sure you slow down to 25 mph from 4th gear, so when you both punch it, he'll only kick down to 2nd gear while you go to 1st; you'll smoke him. The next most dramatic race is from a highway roll (prefer 50 mph since the 3800 S/C will downshift to 2nd with lots of speed left to hit its power peak rpm and you'll be closer in you speed to the meat of your powerband). Good luck.

Ruski

If I remember correctly, the GTP's tranny is capable of downshifting 2 gears at once, without a pause in between if you step on the gas hard enough.

Anyway, I miss driving my GTP, torque feels so good.But on the other hand, I raced a GTP and beat him with my TL-S.

Whoever started the thread - just go and race your boss and tell us the results.

Ruski

you said you are first going out for a dinner.

Make sure you don't eat too much. At least eat less than your boss.


On the side note. How come he is your boss and drives a less expensive car than you ?

Although a loaded GTP's MSRP is around $28K, pretty close to TL-S.
And because TL-S does not depreciate as much as a GTP, leasing a TL-S is pretty close to leasing a GTP, I think.

(my '98 GTP was a 3-year lease with 12K miles per year, $1,800 down and $380 per month + NYC tax. My TL-S is 4-year lease with 15K miles per year, $1,500 down, $395 per month + FL tax)

evolaerok

It doesn't matter what a boss drives, my old boss drove a Daewoo, but he had a way bigger house than I do. Only thing I didn't like about my bro's GTP was problems here and there with his engine overheating and oil being burned way to fast.

typeSmaximum

If you turn VSA off, and launch at the sime time or a little faster, the TL-S will win hands down. Try to get as little spin as you can, so don't torque brake! A co-worker of mine has one and I have raced other stock GTPs. Only a threat if moded.

y2ks2k

Guys, get out of your linear thinking. the Pontiac may be able to keep up in a strait line and only a strait line but you put the 2 cars on the track and the Tl will spank it hard. Why? The TL features as do most Hondas the most advanced suspension technology you can find on a normal car. Car & Driver did a big shoot out of 20 sedans about 2 years ago. The Pontiac placed LAST. Why? As they noted the car utilizes suspension components from the 50's... This led Car & Driver to note that it handled like cars of the 50's... Absolutely horrible. As is the case with many American Cars... Suspension is everything.

Meet on in a strait line, sure, it can keep up, but when the corner comes, it will keep going strait.

I drove one of the top handling cars made for 2 years on the track (PIR) and in AutoX. The TL lives up well against the S2000 in handling. With the addition of my springs and wheels with more patch, the TLs is an AMAZING handler. It absolutely does not feel like a car of its size. The front end comes around like it was my 2400 pound del Sol VTEC or 2000 pound CRX.

After some brake upgrades, you will see me on the track at PIR with the BMW club taking on all of the M models (don’t think anyone has driven the new M3 out yet, they sit in the parking lot).

fahoumh

Has anyone here heard of/seen the Pontiax GTX? What are the stats on those?

Ruski

GTP does not handle any worse than a TL.

If TL was such a great handler, so many people here would not be whining about it and upgrading the suspension.



Re: GTP's reliability - my GTP never had any problems with the engine or tranny during the 3-year lease. The ONLY problem was a broken steering rack (coincidentally after I hit a huge pothole in NYC)

Scorpius

I was under the impression the GTPs handle better than the TL/CL. Am I wrong? There were two GTP guys on the CL board last week.

samkws

don't underestimate GTP's cornering...it has wide track design...and handles great as seen on commerical...

let's not talk about commercial...real stats shows the GTP has 0.76g of latteral grip with cheap Good Year RS-A stock tires and 16in....about par for a large car like that...

TL-S is about the same...due to its large size and front drive...


The pontiac has the GTX model as an OEM upgrade from Pontiac GTP...
it's a 2000 dollar option...with a more aggressive grill and holes on the engine lit...17in chrome wheels...big spoiler...different exhaust pipe..and some special leather interior...last but not least...it adds the famous RAM AIR system to the supercharged engine(larger intake) and pumps out 260hp...20hp more than the GTP...
but the most scary one is the DAYTONA GTP...it has 300hp and 300lb of torque...all OEM...it was a limited edition in 99...
i have only seen both of them once on the st...so rare to see...but don't go for a 300hp one...i swear they will kill u!!!

y2ks2k

Never heard anyone wine about the handling. Modifying the suspension is done because the parts are there and not all that expensive like most Hondas.

Lastly, what proof do you have of this? Have you tracked a TLs? Have you ever tracked a car. Because I’ll tell you right now, there isn’t any kind of street testing you can do that even remotely compares to the stress your put on at the track. In fact, people honestly have no real idea how hard core it is to take your car around a track at break loose speeds. This is when you really find our how your car handles.

By default, the GTP’s suspension would make it a failure.

Ruski

I used to drive a GTP. Now I drive a TL-S. They behave abou the same on the offramps when I exit at the speeds higher than suggested speed limit.

Actually my 300M with Performance Handling Group package took the same off ramps better than either TL-S or GTP.

Anyway, why are we talking about handling? The guy who started this topic is not planning to race his boss on Road Atlanta. They are just going to have some fun from a traffic light. Am I correct?

bigman

Um i was gonna buy a daytona GTP. It is the same thing as the special GTP it is just a cosmetic upgrade. It has the same horses as a regular GTP. It has roof fences, hood vents, dual/dual exhuast and two tone leather. The GTX does have 20 more horses and 27 more lbs ft of torque.

typeSmaximum

I also think with better tires/wider wheels the TL-S will handle much much better than it does stock. I'm having a hard time picking a wheel tight now, as for rubber, the Yokahoma AVS Sports are really nice.

Ruski

I think we are getting distracted with what ifs.

The situation at hand - a guy in a stock TL-S is planning to race a guy in a stock GTP.

typeSmaximum

"The situation at hand - a guy in a stock TL-S is planning to race a guy in a stock GTP."

TL-S will win unless you have VSA on and launch really late. We already covered that. Was just talking about handling right now

Ruski

hey did this race ever take place?

y2ks2k

Guys, get out of your linear thining. Take both cars the the Track.. a real track.. the TLs will spank it hands down... Theres more to a car then strait line performance.

samkws

GTP handle great...it has 0.76g of lateral which is fair for the class

TL-S have 0.80 i believe...

and despite the fact that GTP only wears 16in tires

Ruski

GTP gets 0.76 g in part because of crappy Goodyear RS-A tires. Some people have replaced RS-As with better tires and saw great improvement.