El pana/TL32

Thanks for the replies and the share of knowledge guys. So there is not an "aftermarket" transmission for our cars, or anyway to possibly rebuild our transmissions with better internal parts, in order to maintain prelong performance via SC, Turbo or 3.5 Conversion?

I believe that having the ability to have the tranny replace is great, however it's a bit of a hassle when you have to do it "often" because you are pushing more power out of the car with the above mentioned mods.

This is obviously an assumption, that by pushing more power out of the engine, you are putting more strain on the transmission, therefore increasing it's potential to fail. If this is correct, I wanted to hear from the 3.5 and SC memembers, and perhaps you could share your experience on the board, if you have not already done so before.

Thanks!

VietGuy03

iTrader: (4)

I'm not completely sure about this, but I believe that the TL and Accord share the same transmission? If so then V6performance.net has an upgraded tranny you can buy. I was reading about it and it's pretty costly, but with the upgraded tranny you can definately turn up the boost on a forced induction car, S/C or T/C application. I didn't see anything in particular about the tranny being available for TL's but it's worth a shot to ask the manufacturer.

SSMTL01

I've got just over 122k on my 01 TL, and the recall has never been done. Is it generally true that if the car has made it to this point without issues that it will be fine? I'd like to keep this car for a while.. Also, does anyone know of the highest mileage outside of the warranty that Acura has replaced a tranny out of good will?
Thanks

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Sixth generation Accord = 4-speed
Second generation TL = 5-speed (except for '99)

I didn't know the transmission upgrade kit has come out already. I posted in the thread they were gauging interest in, and signed myself up on the list. I was hoping to hear something about it soon.

Duffer71

I was just at Bloomington Acura in Minnesota on Saturday taking a friend test-driving and I asked the salesman about the transmission issue. His response? Never seen it on a TL. CL? Yes. TL? No. Essentially tried to make it seem like there was no issue with the TLs.

I wanted to slap him silly. He was irritating in other ways, and this was over-the-top.

joseph_99tl

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/hondaauto.shtml

03SSMTL-S

car max guy acted the same way, like huh. worst part about all of these trannys (at least in my case, mine died at 38,500) i never used sport shift ever, i just put it in drive and went, and its not like i even drove it hard just basic driving, oh well time to down grade to a 5 speed 4 banger civic.

fla-tls

Remember, these companies do their homework. Every "long warranty" manufacturer (with one exception that I know of) makes it so that the warranty is either non-transferrable or transferrable with a cost and filing of paperwork.

They know that the average American owns a car for 2-3 years and gets another one. They have nothing to fear from offering warranties with lots of fine print.

If you could find a manufacturer that would produce a car with a 150k warranty with no funky fine print you would basically double the price of the car - at least.

The fact is that things break on a car that's driven. Things actually break on a car that's not driven as well.

I will never cease to be amazed by people who bring in a 7 year old car wondering why they actually have to spend some money on a vehicle with 120k+ miles on it. They haven't had car payments in years (and have saved thousands of dollars because of it), but they're irate about the $2000 for a new tranny - while a new vehicle of that class is going for aroung $30k - I just don't get it.

Although the Acura tranny thing is unique - and Acura is doing the right thing by extending the warranty - get over it already.

Are there people out there that actually expect to buy a car and have it go indefinitely without issue?

Edward'TLS

The reason why people make a big fuss out of this tranny issue is that Honda is best known for building reliable cars. Never has any previous Honda/Acura model suffer from tranny failures at such an extensive and alarming rates. If it was a Volkswagen or Jaguar, people would let it go because they expect the brands' reliability to be poor. But never for a Honda/Acura.

03CoupeV6

I'm gonna have to question your statistics on the average American swapping cars every 2-3 years. The average age of a car on the road is about 7 years.

Notice my post did not say there should be a 14/150k warranty bumper-to-bumper. Cars get old and things go wrong. But when a car company manufacuters a product that is defective by design, they should stand behind it. Just recently my friend's 1998 Toyota Camry with 121,000 miles on it had the CEL come on with the code P0441, the charcoal canister, VSV, and purge valve were bad - and it was all replaced free of charge because Toyota fucked it up from the factory and therefore extended the warranty to 14 years or 150,000 miles.

The Acura transmission case is more than unique. Lots of TL owners come from Accords and Civics which gave them years and sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles of faithful service - and to expect any less from a higher-end Honda car is ridiculous. The fact is that my car payment will exist beyond 100,000 miles and so will many other owners on this board and I am not pleased with the prospect of having to pay for a transmission that fails because of bad design. My transmission was replaced at 47,000 miles, and that in and of itself is totally unacceptable. If it fails at 100,000 miles that's only 53,000 - not a long life for a transmission.

Acura's extended warranty is okay, but it's not nearly long enough. If you go 140,000 miles before you have 1 failure, then okay. But if you have to replace every 40,000 miles then Acura should replace it free for the life of the vehicle because it is obviously their fault. After all, 140,000 miles is an acceptable life of a transmission - but 40,000 is not. It shouldn't matter how many miles the car has on it, it should matter how many miles the transmission has on it. So if they want to do a 7/100k warranty it should start over after each replacement.

Edit: Acurazine members need to collectively write a book. We can call it "Life after 100k"

ou sig

I have to agree with you on this one...that may be why they are known to replace them after the original warranty is over.

mlionel

I see your point, 03CoupeV6, but I don’t agree with it. When transmission fails at 140,000 miles, it’s understandable, but not acceptable. Cat transmission has to last at least as much as the rest of the vehicle. In Acura’s case it is 200,000 + miles. Depending on driving conditions different car parts will fail. However, if there is a pattern of premature failure of one specific part/unit, then that is the evidence of faulty design or manufacturing.
My

03CoupeV6

Well that's sorta the same statement I was making. The transmissions are defective by design, therefore they should be replaced for free even beyond 100,000 miles. However, it is not unusual for automatic transmissions to die before engines - it's pretty common.

fsttyms1

But if you owned teh company you wouldnt want to loose money that way, especially since they changed the car and tranny. Yes for us the consumer that would be the ideal situation. Other car companies have worse trannies than ours, but never gave a lifetime warranty or even upped it to 100k. (fsttyms playing devils advocate again)

03CoupeV6

fsttyms = bitch.

When talking to an Acura rep about some problems with my TL (he met me in person), he said it was better for them to correct customers problems rather than lose them because it costs the company 7 times as much money to recruit a new customer than it does to keep a current one. Therefore, Acura SHOULD stand behind the products they poorly designed - it would keep them a larger loyal customer base, which equals more money. I wonder how many people out there (not on Acurazine) that have lost respect for Acura because of this? I wonder how many would have bought 3rd gens that didn't? It's been very successful but they're never going to know if it could have been even more so.

fsttyms1

But the bigger Question is WHO's Bitch am i????????


Dont get me wrong, this tranny thing BLOWZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. After having 4 die im pissed at acura big time. Will it keep me from buying another Honda product. NO.

Also you need to remember Things on forums are exagerated and this is where the few that do come to bitch, and i do believe that what acura did, while they will loose some by not actually completly fixing the issue, have kept more customers by extending the warranty on them to what they did than if they didnt and said oh well (which they could have pulled like most others would have)

Now if acura would start producing RWD sedans like the rest of the world, they would be my next choice for car, but since they dont they arent

Edward'TLS

I agree with Fsttyms1. This tranny problem is not affecting the current TL sales at all. It will only affect the resale value of the 2nd Gen TL's. Everybody wants to stay away from buying cars with potentially failing tranny. I bet the resale value will drop to rock bottom when near or past the extended tranny warranty period, because no one will want to pocket the $4K repair bill when the tranny fails.

2007AcuraRL

Well all I can say is ITS ABOUT TIME that magazine depicts the problem for what it is --- a problem! I've got 100k on my '02 so I am already past the point of no return as far as depreciation. Its going to suck for those who try to sell their car and find they cant get many takers.

Yet with all this I am baffled by you, fsttyms1, in that you write your experience (in your case 4 trannies and counting) wouldnt deter you from another American Honda product. We all know you're jumping ship for a 400hp Caddy come winter so maybe you're just professing brand loyalty even though you're not really going to buy another Acura any time soon? And don't give the party-line about every car has problems. Unless you qualify this with an admission that some problems are more serious, and expensive, than others.

I might have considered a new TL if it were just rattles and squeaks that I've had to fix on my current one. But $4k trannies!!? I drive too many miles and quickly blow past any warranty period to ever consider another Acura product. Now that I've past the 100k mark, the moment I detect any first signs of tranny trouble (I'm already on tranny #3, I might add) I am trading the car in the very next day.

No way I will fork over $4k for a car that in total is worth maybe twice that amount. And I totally agree that the warranty should reset whenever the tranny is replaced. If the tranny was supposed to get at least 100k miles (I have yet to see that since I've already had 3 trannies) then shouldnt the refurb replacement they put in be expected to get that same about of miles? If not, then why use it as a replacement????

jazzpicker

AGREE 100%
After reading nearly every word posted about the 2nd get trannies, it seems there has been no fix for the 2nd gen tranny problem, so if you buy a new tranny it's defective from the start. One post claimed that a replacement tranny can't be purchaed from Acura parts dept. These trannies are just shit and it seems that Acura has to keep replacing them as they go bad. One person at a dealership TOLD ME that they have never charged anyone for replacing a tranny in a 2nd gen car.
If Acura had re-engineered the tranny and it could be expected to do as normal trannies do and go for >100,000 miles, it would be a different story but as of this moment they are replacing trannies with rebuilt defective shit.
This tranny issue is really a pity because the 2nd gen cars are really nice automobiles that are otherwise immaculate. I really enjoyed driving my 02 but the experience was destroyed by knowing in the back of my mind that I might not make it back home because of the tranny. Acura really handled this problem badly.

El pana/TL32

This is one of the best disucssions sorrounding our car transmission problem. I have to agree with the above statement. I really enjoy my car and the fact that you have to worry about the transmission going one day, is not comforting to say the least.

However, I'm in the persuit of a potential solution... I have read thru several threads and it seems that regardless of the options available to us today, we will always have problems with your transmissions...

I was hopping to find that Dr. Evil's work or any other performance rebuild, will allow me to have somewhat of a peace of mind with the few mods I plan on adding to my 03 Type-s.

With that said, do you guys believe that with I/H/P and perhaps 3.5 or S/C and a rebuilt tranmission by Dr. Evil, or someone esle... along with normal stree driving (3 times a week 60mph) and punching it every know on then, will cause extreme premature breakdown of the above set up?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

03CoupeV6

The transmission failures don't seem to be directly proportionate to owner's driving styles. They last on people who drive their cars hard and fail on people who drive like grandma.

ou sig

exactly - thats why a dealer cant say much if you have some engine mods and your tranny goes out

Edward'TLS

I believe the answer is not solely on the tranny fix alone. The answer is a completely new engine management system with throttle-by-wire, revised PCM, and beefed up 3rd gear clutch pack. The main problem the excess heat caused by full-throttle 2nd-to-3rd upshifts and 5th-to-3rd downshifts. Even Honda has fully retarded the engine timing during those gear shifts with the revised PCM program, it's still not able to reduce the engine output to a sufficient level because there is only that much retard you can mess with with a mechanical throttle. Only switching to throttle-by-wire can the PCM take full control of the engine output during those deadly gear shifts. The 3rd gen TL's are using this electronic throttle system.

Please note that with the replaced rebuilt tranny and PCM, repeated failures are occuring at a much reduced rate than the origianl tranny failing. It's only that the full fix involve more than this.

mlionel

You are going to have very hard time to convince me in that, as I have 4-th transmission in my 2000TL.

fsttyms1

As am i but do you have the new revised tranny with the oiljet kit Built in and the revised 3rd gear? those are new things and so far no one has had one fail. only time will tell

mlionel

I honestly have no idea, if I have now built-in lube line and what kind 3-d gear clutch pack is there. I only notice that this tranny shifts like sh#t with delays and, it seems sometimes slippage. I got about 9,000 miles on it for now, with total 94K+ on the vehicle. Only time will tell if this unit will stand…
How can I find if there is built-in lube line?

fsttyms1

well if you have one of the newer ones it wont have the external oil jet kits on it. If you do you dont have the newer design

it will appear (to the best of my knowledge) like the older ones with out the oil jet kit

mlionel

[QUOTE=fsttyms1]well if you have one of the newer ones it wont have the external oil jet kits on it. If you do you dont have the newer design

it will appear (to the best of my knowledge) like the older ones with out the oil jet kit

One picture does worth 1000 words, doesn’t it? Thanks a lot, fsttyms!
Yes, based on your picture I have “updated”, newer tranny. For what you know, should it last longer, than the “old” one?
Also, I just checked forum and noted that you pushing 200K. What other issues do/did you have becides transmission? What transmission is on your TL now?

siocontl

Guys, do the public have access to Acura's records/statistics as to how many 2nd generation cars have their trannys replaced? If we the public have access to these records, then we can make a comparison between 2nd generation TL cars tranny lifetimes and those of similar vehicles'.

If we can clearly show that the 2nd gen tranny problem is worse that what is normally expected, then we have a strong case against Acura.

Does anyboby have any statistic as to the failure rate of 2nd gen Acura trannies?

Thanks.

fsttyms1

No Problem
The only problem ive had other than 4 failed trannies is the drivers side heated seat. I never use it so i never had it repaired. No creakes or rattles other than the moon roof (the cover that slides open to expose the moon roof itself) which occasionally makes a subtle noise when cold)

There is no where that keeps those #'s. And if they did you probably still wouldnt have a case. They upped the warranty on them and the NTHSA already looked into them and did nothing!

03CoupeV6

If you never used the driver's side heated seat, how did you know it stopped working?

fsttyms1

GF loves heated seats and complains when its cold out and it doesnt work

Edward'TLS

Sorry, there is no way to access the Acura stats. Acura has been keeping the whole thing under wrap, and dealerships are not telling the truth to protect their brand. In addition, even dealerships are not allowed to open up the dead trannies to find out what's going on inside.

The only stats is the number of dead tranny complains from TL owners.

But no matter how bullet-proof a tranny is designed, it is normal for a certain percentage to fail in the long run.

stiletto

On my third transmission in the 2K2 TLS... On my second Transmission in the 2K2 Oddy...

thinking about selling both and going to the competition...

stiletto

In my case (and I can tolerate quite a few blunders from professionals) after the third tranny, I am seriously considering getting rid of the TL for a loss... However, the next choice might still be a Honda (albeit a manual such as a CL-s or a quality older s2K). I wish it could be a four door, but as you say, it has not been produced. The RL is nice, but I was born with the wrong budget. So if a must have four door scenario develops, I am almost apologetic about this, but it will definetly be from the competition.

Too many miles have passed for me to be in a position to say "oh well..." and for Honda to do little more about it. Other than a very generous subsidy towards a quality used CL-s 6spd, I can't see how they will retain me as a customer when the 100K warranty is over. In fact, since the Hurricane Wilma scratched the whole car and I am due for a complete re-paint job, I'll probably take advantage of the ocassion and put it on the market as soon as it comes out of the bodyshop...

It will hurt, 'cause I feel I am walking on a tightrope... NOT one time passes that I get in the car and NOT think about the transmission...

03CoupeV6

Acura won't give you anything to retain you as a customer.

stiletto

:angryfire

ou sig

what are you talking about? they extended the tranny warranty - I think that is just about all they could do, other than give everyone a different car.

what the hell do you want?

optomos

A tranny thats not inferior. I would take one of those anyday over a 50k warranty extention.

ou sig

well no shit - but those dont fall out of the sky you know. It would be impossible to design a perfect tranny and replace every car sold with the recalled one...trust me, this car isnt the only car with tranny problems - not even close.