tls988

March 02 of Consumer Reports did a upscale sedans road tests of the following vehicles with automatic transmission: Lexus ES300, Audi A4, TL Type-S, Infiniti I35 and Jaguar X-Type. Type-S was a winner in acceleration, lowest priced, and best fuel economy in this test. Other great things it said about the TL were about its built quality and much better than average reliability.

samkws

personally i like the A4 very much....more fun than a TL...but more expensive even with the base model...

fastest accelaration among the cars??? u sure??? coz willc8 will taste some sour if he sees this...(if he's able to come back again) and flame u guys for posting the fact that TL-S is faster than the I35

jbs221

I'll go get the issue tomorrow. What position did the TL finish in? Also, was it the P or S type. Their website just says TL.

evolaerok

Most likely a Type S, because I doubt the P will beat a I35.

jimagain

I have it in front of me. They tested the TLS.
The TLS had the best accel times of the 5. (6.6/15.2 vs 7.0/15.6 for the I35.)

Overall, the TLS finished midpack, just ahead of the I35.
The new ES300 finished on top. No surprise, based on their heavy favoring of ride/comfort vs fun/sport.

Road Rage

CU does an ok job on toasters, but its audio and auto reviews are nerd-oriented. And very anti-American - they still list body corrosion as a problem with Corvettes in their reliability snapshots. Duhh.

MB-telecom

Infiniti I35 = 3400 lb. curb weight. 0-60 7.0 sec., 1/4 mi. 15.6 sec @ 92mph.

Acura TL-S = 3520 lb. curb weight. 0-60 6.6 sec., 1/4 mi. 15.2 sec @ 95 mph.

I guess Consumer Reports (CR) must be biased against the I35. I am sure they didn't go all out on the acceleration tests like they did on the TL-S.

Once again I am sure Road Rage is more astute than the whole CR staff. I am sure he has single-handledly studied, collected, collated and analyzed more data and knows ten times more about the recent model Corvettes than the entire CR staff. I am sure that the CR bias toward American cars (sure they are biased - Road Rage said so!) is what unfairly skews their unfounded opinion of the Corvette's body integity/rust problem(s). Road Rage presents his OPINION on the FACTS and DATA that CR has collected, collated and analyzed. This is just another one of Road Rage's many claims to fame and expertise. lol! I should probably pray to him; he must be God!

tgif

CR also said the upscale sedan didn't perform as good as the magazine predicted. It simply said all the upscale sedan it tested is just as good as its cheaper siblings.

TL=Accord
I35=Maxima
A4=Passat

It still said the BMW is perform the best.

samkws

no wonder the ES...it's brand new design...should be a winner...if not thye are gonna be the loser

while the TL-S and I35's design was dated back to 1999...lexus had 3 yrs to study those cars to improve itself

Monte TLS,MAX

I think the ES300's design is ugly, its fat looking with a smashed roofline. I would take a TLS or I35 over it any day despite their age!

Guest

The interior alone puts all the others to shame sans the A4, as it uses the same LS430 top quality leather, and real wood everywhere, not to mention the quiet cabin and ride. As far as the exterior goes, well....

1SICKLEX

I can say Lexus DID NOT study no Acura or Infiniti to make it's new models, sorry buddy....

tea elle

This guy never has anything nice to say about Acura...what is he even doing here on the TL site?

Anyway, aesthetically the new ES300 is sub par on the outside and gorgeous on the inside....what a shame. Same goes for the SC430.

Guest

Regardless of style, the ES will still sell plenty well, akin to the Camry/Accord i.e. they sell tons just on reputation alone. I personally love the SC, just sitting in one is pleasurable, driving one is beyond words, I like it that much. My wife is actually considering trading her 330 conv. for a 2003 SC, extra hp, extra luxury, ahhh.....

samkws

well...just every car maker will do this...they find out what problems the other cars have and try to avoid the same problem

Road Rage

You really are an irritating idiot.

1) I'll bet I do know more than CR's entire staff about Corvettes. I have had a business that modifies and restores vintage and late model Corvettes since 1982. Virginia State Business license. I have had articles in Vette Vues magazine, Corvette Fever, and have consulted on a software problem in the 1985's directly with the Bowling Green factory. I still have a direct phone number in my Rolodex.

2) I am sure Consumers Union (that is the name of the org - the magazine is called Consumer Reports, but I am sure I am also wrong on that) may have tallied info, but any moron knows that the early fFiberglas (actually, technically it is glass-reinforced plastic, which you no doubt also knew) and now the SMC (sheet molded composite) cannot corrode as it is chemically inert. It also cannot rust.

Why don't you devote some of your energy to opening a book other than "The Art of Flaming"?

Dave Solomon at Nutz and Boltz did a long expose of CU, including good documentation of their foreign bias, and how their stats are artificially skewed by the demographic of their audience. Of course, he must also be suspect, but he is a certified Master Mechanic and did forensic work on cars for Pinkerton for years. No doubt your credentials eclipse his.

As to the audio, which you surprisingly do not contest, I suggest your read the transcripts of the Bose vs. CU case. I have. It will tell you a lot about both companies, including CU's admission that it is more interested in selling mags than the truth. And their speaker tests never check energy-storage problems (Austin519 or Daverman can explain what those are), and one top-rated speaker rang like a bell when pulse tested.

tabraha

Sounds qualified to me!

As a side note anyone that ever has a chance to go to the Corvette museum in Bowling Green should jump at the chance! The Porsche club even has a road trip to go see the rarest 'vettes ever!

BLEXV6

I just read the report, and even though they rated it well, they complained that the I35 is nothing more than a Maxima which does not offer much more than the Max. The TL-s was well liked and really not put down, except when the car is pushed its hard to control. Otherwise it was very positive. The A4 was liked but their were electrical problems that left the car stranded. Imagine an Audi with electrical problems. The Lexus was well liked and top rated below the 330i. I would expect that when the new TL comes out it may move up, but it is clearly the oldest of the group(ie 1999).

Road Rage, I disagree with you on CR reporting on cars, as I think they do a good job. However you, like I am entitled to our opinions. Opinions are like *******s, we both have one.

Road Rage

I have been there, enjoyed it immensely in the 1992 LT 1 I had, modified to over 375 HP.

Do they have a ZL-1? It was the rarest ever. 2 were made. One went to an engineer at the Old ST Louis plant. The other was sold from Hechler Chevrolet right here in the Richmond area. It was an all-aluminum 427. The original owner blew up the engine in the first few days, and Chevy trucked in a new one from the Tonawonda engine plant, no questions asked (they were supposedly factoiry blueprinted). Anyway, Wayne Waloker at Zip Products in Mechanicsville located the car, the engine, and did a ground up restoration. I sat in it once.

tabraha

I am unsure about whether they have the other ZL-1. They have a good website you should check out.

It was a little awkward parking a 911 in the parking lot but I think the other visitors got a kick out of it! The Calloway(spelling?) and Lingenfelter conversions (especially the turbos) were the ones that I have always been intrigued by the most.

jbs221

I finally got the issue and read it too. I find it extremely alarming and confusing that a brand new $35K car broke down and stranded them yet ranked 2nd in the list. The argument could be made it was a sample defect and the car "otherwise" performed well. BS Audi's have had issues for years, this seems to be a continuing problem with a new model. They kill a vehicle that has handling problems, but not one that "strands" them.
But then again, that's my opinion.

Webologist

He'll need to flame Motor Trend too since the poor I35 is still a 7 second vehicle there too! WillC8 the I35 will get spanked by the TL-S. End of story, every source testing them has found the TL-S faster. Wishful thinking won't change that...

91M5

I think the only ugly Audi was the A6 and they made the A4 look just like it. Yuk.

The new SC while most likely a very "nice" car, is quite a fashion risk as well. Whatever happened to clean and simple? I think the thing is atrocious.

If BMW does not fire Chris Bangle (745i fame) they will quickly lose half their sales. That is what they get for letting an American design their cars.

I will give the TL big props for simply making a nice looking sedan. Not flashy and gets its job done. Kind of how BMW used to be before the 745i. The new 6 will likely be weird looking also.

Generally, what the heck are car designers thinking when they get to the rearend of some of these cars, e.g. Nissan Altima (absolutely hideous from the rear), IS300, 745i, Audi A6/A4, etc.

DJ Iceman

Here, here 91M5! Exactly right!

Road Rage

Blex: Don't let anyone put words in my mouth. I think they do an ok job, but it is not from the enthusiast's perspective, but more from the "car as an appliance" perspective. That can be valuable.

But they have had many notable screw-ups. They lambasted the Suzuki Samurai, driving it like a car. Well, a stiffly sprung, short wheelbase, high center of gravity vehicle cannot be driven like that. If their target audience needs someone to tell them that, then CU is effective. To me it was headline screaming at the expense of a decent little vehicle that serves a valuable market niche.

For me, and it was stated as my opinion, that is not enough.

I like peformance cars, not performance espresso machines.

gohawks63

I also read the article last night.

I agree with Road Rage. I think CU does an OK job, but the reviews are not based on an enthusiast's perspective. They look at cars from a transportation point of view. I actually value more the reliability ratings, since those are based on the real world experience of the subscribers.

As for 1sicklex's comment:

By the way, that's a double negative. Are you subconciously saying they did study the Acura or Infiniti?

I think what was meant is that Lexus must have taken into account what has made the TL so successful. The combined luxury and performance you get for the price (read: value).

I don't think anyone was implying that Lexus used the TL as their automotive benchmark.

With regards to the NAVI units. With DVD-based units that contain the continental US (At least what has been mapped thus far) becoming more popular, I find it inexcusable that Infiniti is still using a CD-ROM based system that will require the owner to buy additional discs (@ $150 a piece) if they travel outside of their regional area.

Lastly, I think CU is oversimplying the TL/Honda, I35/Maxima, Camry/ES300, and A4/Passat comparison.

From a performance perspective, the 3.0 liter engine in the Accord doesn't compare to the TL-P, not to even mention the TL-S. We won't even begin to comment on handling, content, warranty, and cabin noise.

While the ES300/Camry may share the same platform, the engine in the ES300 is tuned for slightly better performance. not to mention the ride and cabin enhancements you get in the ES300 over the Camry. Although you can get options like the Nav in the Camry.

Not as familiar with the A4/Passat, but while the 4 cyl engines are the same, you do get a slightly more powerful V6 in the A4. In addition to other improvements in content and warranty.

The I35/Maxima twins have probably the narrowest performance margin, if any, with respect to the other platform siblings mentioned. I believe the engines are identical and you can get upmarket options, such as the Nav in the Maxima.

So if all you want to do is get from Point A to Point B, then the Accord, Camry, Maxima, and Passat will probably do, which brings us back to CUs reviews.

But if you want more performance and luxury, the upscale cousins are not a bad buy.

lawman

MB-telecom:

Glad to see you haven't been banned. Try not to come totally unravelled anytime soon. I really can use the entertainment (notice that I did not split the infinitive. I've taken your advice and am forging ahead with my education).

Davidas

That is true, the ES300 interior is simply wonderful, I saw it at the auto show here back in January. Very luxurious, well fit and finish....., but engine sucks (210 hp).

Lrpba300

Its the job of writers to write so as to bring out the emotion in people's opinions. To compare the different vehicles, there's bound to be some major variables that one person see's as a benifit, while another will say that's BS. Welcome to Consumer Reports. I dissagree RR. I think C/R is SH&T. It has been proven many times how they have "reported" facts WRONG. As someone pointed out, you have to "read between the lines" and decide what is important value to them selfs. MBtelecom is still mad about losing about the OIL discussions. I'm sorry to say he's from the same state as I live in.
Sometimes you have to EXPERIENCE life to make a quality choice in things taht matter to yourself. Reading mag's, books, etc. is only a reference, not a guilding light. Some must walk through life based on what others say & do.

Road Rage

Lrrba300: I suggest you read the full series of posts - I got flamed from M-B for saying the same thing as you, then I clarified for someone else my thinking about CU. If you read it all, you will see that I am in substantial agreement with you.

If I want a toaster, I read CU.
If I want a screamer, I read C&D, M/T, or R&T, or the ATLForum!

Lrpba300

RR..I did read the ENTIRE post. I was being SARCASTIC about CR! I know we agree. We both have (probably) had true experience's on working/ building/ re-building cars, engines. Iwas saying that some people have to go by what a magazine says

Road Rage

OK, luvu2. Hard to read scasm at times.

I work with IT people, and many of them cannot buy toilet paper without reading what CR has to say. Wonder how they make the product that requires the TP without ASSistance.

Lrpba300

ROTFLMAO

TL-S Man

Well, those fiberglass bodies on those Corvettes have been known to rust badly : ) And, the Bose 201's smoke anything up to 20 times their price (if you have no ears).

RUF87

Sorry, but that is NOT the way you determine performance.

If that were the case then a Chevy Metro at 1800lbs would be the winner!

RUF

1SICKLEX

It is funny how 210hp sucks. It really is.

RUF87

I'm sooo sleepy. Wake me up when we get there.

BTW - Another 330ci bites the dust.

All this talk about how slow the TLS is started me wondering again if I was just lucky or what.

Well that makes 2 last-gen M3s, 2 330i, 3 330ci, a Z28, a couple of SVT Mustangs and more miscellaneous others than I can think of off the top of my head.

Must be a lot of people who can't drive.

Boy I love this car!

BTW - I have no squeeks either and I'm closing in on 1yr with it.

RUF

QuickRick

Guys--I too tend to agree with RR about Consumer's Reports. I also subscribe to Nutz and Boltz Magazine and David Solomon has made me wonder. CU will fail you for having an edge on your trunk or bad reliability reports due to your starter motor failures etc. on an American car then tell you how reliable a Japanese car is utilizing the same parts made in Japan! Like Hitachi starters for example. These guys (CU/CR) should stick to toasters. I also thank David Solomon for showing me what real synlubes are made of like Redline oils. If you look closely in my pic, you can see that naval jelly I put on the fenders due to all of the rusting. Lol QuickRick

DJ Iceman

Yes, because the raw numbers don't support you beating cars like that (well, maybe the Z28 or an auto 330).

tea elle

You can roll your eyes all you want. I drove the Lexus and the power really does suck. But like almost every other Lexus owner on this site, you're determined to be contrary whenever possible.

Why don't you go drive the stupid car and find out for yourself? Its has very average power.