Guest

I have always been an Acura fan (owned the original Legend when 1st released (wow, THAT was a fun car with the 5-Speed) and a GS-R more recently)), as well as a Jeep/Chrysler fan (currently own a Cherokee built for rockcrawling)... therefore, this is going to be a tough decision!

Driving the two back-to-back, it's really a tossup. Help me decide?

For 2001, the 300M with the Performance Handling group is really a nice car - 17" wheels with z-rated tires, deleted speed limiter, stiffer springs, re-valved shocks. On my test drive, the dealer and I opened up the 300M on a straight piece of Texas concrete that is completely devoid of traffic - we hit 137 MPH before I had to slow her down. Very impressive... the 3.5L V6 is strong everywhere in the powerband, pulling like a locomotive. It feels more like a V8 (same feeling as the CL Type S gives ya). With 253 horsies and 257 ft./lbs. of torque, it romps for a big car. Not as agile as the TL, but that's to be expected because it is sooooo much larger inside and out and heavier. It dives into corners like nobody's business, and has the serious power to accelerate out of them with unmerciful force. There is very little body roll with the PH group. The other benefit of the 300M, besides the HUGE interior, is the 11 speaker (9 locations), 360 watt Infinity sound system... never have I heard such an incredible factory sound system. I mean, seriously, it's one that doesn't ever have to be touched (booming bass isn't for me, just tight sound so that I can enjoy my downtempo, trip-hop, and jazz). The minor problems they had with the 1st year model have been ironed out... it's remained on the 10 Best list for 4 years running, which should say something at the very least.

Driving the TL afterwards, the acceleration doesn't feel as lively, yet I know you reach 60 about a second before the 300M does. The buttery quietness and absence of vibration of the engine is deceiving. It feels more refined overall (duh!). The body roll is a little disconcerting when the car is pushed hard, and the factory tires definitely bite the big one (what's with the Michelin's?). They would be the first thing to go... The TL feels lighter, and it is... steering is more responsive. The TL's reliability would definitely be better for longevity's sake - however, since this will be a leased car, that's not all that important because either one would get turned in in 3 years... Overall, the TL still held a slight edge, I think.

However, the TL just seems like one of those soulless cars? I mean, the styling is rather bland, performance is excellent but not authoritative... it seems like something my wife would drive (although she currently drives a 2000 Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L V8 and 3.73 limited slip rearend that keeps up with TL's - 2000 RPM powerbrake launch means 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, average measure after 10 runs with a GTech Pro). Here, the 300M has an edge - it definitely has character, which some people like, and others hate (there doesn't seem to be a middle ground).

Above 80, the 300M would definitely pull away, with it's monster torque and hp pulling constantly. Not that you can ever drive that fast anywhere anymore... Both cars accelerate vigorously with little torque steer. Both cars are priced relatively the same, with the 300M being slightly more (although, if I decide to go with the TL, I would definitely opt for the Type S).

I may just pop the extra money for the 525i or 530i with a stick and the sport package... that would definitely settle this argument... heh.

No need to respond if you haven't driven both - and don't simply rag on Chrysler quality, either. I would like educated responses...

fred3113

well i use to work with someone who got a 300m, and i was curious as to just how fast it was , so one day we both went out to lunch together, he had 2 people with him and i had 2 people with me , so it was a fair match-up.
we pulled up to the light, and we both hit it, pretty much dead even thru first, but beggining into second i started pulling on him, not by much, but definitly pulling, then on our way back we entered the freeway and both hit it from about 60 , and i again started pulling on him, lets just say that when we got back to work he was definitly pissed!!

vtech power!!

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2000 TL, Satin Silver, Burlwood shifter, Fog light ports, front air dam, grill and mud gaurds custom painted to match car! 18" Alba Blaze with 235/40ZR18 Toyo Proxes F4

grishulia

If you going to lease go for the 300M, it sounds like you'll enjoy it more anyway...
When I was getting a car 300M quickly got off of my list first for the reliability issues, even though I am leasing, I prefer not to spend a lot of time in the shop for the 3 years I have the NEW car and if you'll lease it for a longer period than it is definitely a bigger consideration. Second, which should've probably been first, was the lack of a 5 speed automatic, even though there is a SportShift in the 300M. And last but not least the price, but in your case TL-S would be closer to 300M in with my TL non-nav...
If you are thinking of 530i why not consider a Lincoln LS or Audi A6?

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Just my 2 cents...

Indyjenks

Good post Scobib....and welcome to the board. I've driven both, and like both. I agree with you on most accounts except for the price. Right now, with Chryslers struggles, you can pic up a fully loaded 300M for about 400 bucks over invoice! Ive debated buying the 300M but am very wary of Chryslers quality/reliability... The TL feels like its carved out a a single billet of steel...the Chrysler seemed to have a more disconnected feel. If you are leasing, and getting rid of the car in 3 years, the quality/reliability thing may not be as big of an issue for you. Go with your gut instinct. Check out Edmunds for the current TMV of the 300M....I think you will be surprised at what you should be able to get one for!

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72 Olds 442 Convertible (dual ram air) Play ride
99 Chevy Explorer high top conversion (vacation ride)
94 Ranger Splash 4x4 ext cab. (work/haul ride)
80 Honda CB750F (Shoei/Kerker) wheelie ride
02 TL-S Aegean Blue (due 3/18) MY RIDE
00 John Deere 4 wheel steer (yard ride...hehe)

Guest

I've looked into the reliability issue... for the 200 model years of both cars, the TL had nearly as many TSB's and recall notices as the 300M did... surprised? I was... The recalls for the 300M looked like minor things, anyways. I think I have had minor problems with every vehicle I have ever bought - including the original Legend (once, the driver's window literally exploded when rolling up, showering me with glass) and my GS-R. Acura's, despite what many people on this board will lead people to believe, are not infallible. In fact, there isn't a car out there that isn't...

I did find it surprising that Honda/Acura requested that AllData deny access to Honda and Acura repair information and from posting information about TSB's and recalls... isn't that lovely?

As far as the Lincoln and A6 - no way to either... I would never buy a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury product. Yes, the LS is a nice car, and with the V8 and a stick, it's a hoot. But there's little back seat room, and it's still a F*rd product. The A6 is waaaaaaay overpriced for what you get, and reliability bites... I've heard too many horror stories about them.

Did that 300M that you went up against have the Performance package? For 2001, the 300M PH Package includes a re-worked computer and 0-60 time has been reduced to 7.1 seconds from the tests I have seen - that's right there with the TL.

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grishulia

It definitely sounds like you have your heart set on 300M... go get it and be done with it... how long are you planning to lease it for anyway?

P.S. Did you ever consider Saab or a Volvo? The S60 is very sweet even with the middle engine choice... and 9-5 even though more expensive is a totally different car that anything else...

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Just my 2 cents...

VTEC Animal

Get a TL-S!!! They're going to be on the lots any day now it sounds by the way people are starting to see them on haulers.

BLEXV6

You must be out of your stinkin mind to pick a Chrysler over an Acura. You will be sorry later if you care about cars at all.

Guest

PLEASE... take a look at RESALE VALUES. Compare Chryslers and Hondas/Acuras in the same category vehicle. I personally don't want to find myself thousands of dollars short on my investment years down the road.

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2000 3.2 TL, Paper maps.
Naples Gold / Parchment.
225/55ZR-16 RE730s on OEM alloys.
205/55QR-16 Alpins on steel wheels w/covers (winter).

Pictures

1999 CR-V EX 4WD Auto White
1992 MR-2 5-Speed T-Tops 2.2L, Greddy SP S/S Exhaust

merlyn

We had a chrystler once...and it died. my friend's father...he loved it until he had to take it to the shop...and it cost a bundle...and it never worked the same...the car is under 1.5 years old.

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Mugen exhaust
now ordering AEM short ram

Guest

Actually, I didn't have my heart set on either one... there's only one car that could be that inspiring, and my heart's set on it - a 1955 Porsche Spyder 550.

This is just going to be a daily driver/weekend tripper. The only requirements are around $30K, luxury, and room for me and 3 clients (when necessary).

I still think I'll end up with the TL Type S. I just wanted to see what everyone else here thought, and if they had made the same comparison. Interestingly enough, I have noted that many people compare the TL and 300M - some buy one, and some buy the other.

Polyman

It sounds to me that you are more passionate about the 300M. Go with what you think will move you. At least you have good taste in vehicles.

Acuraboy

I also test drove the 300M. I concur with most of the responses here. It is definitely a nice, powerful, roomy car that is a little less refined than the Acura. However, since you are considering the Type-S and not the base TL, I really feel you should go for the Acura. The TL-S will beat the 300M in all performance categories hands down. As far as size, I actually think the Chrysler is too big! I personally think the TL is the perfect size. I still don't think that the 300M has a standard sunroof so after all is said and done, a comparbly equipped Acura TL-S should be slightly less expensive (No Nav), better performer, and better quality. Although I do like the styling of the 300M better. But that is the only feature that Chrysler beats the Acura.

grishulia

300M is roomier with the cab forward design... especially in the back...

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Just my 2 cents...

hunter001

I thought I saw a video of the 300M being crash-tested by the government about a year back....the car was folding up like a pack of cards....I have seen a lot of cars being crash-tested but nowhere did I see something like the Chrysler LHS cars folding in like a soda can ... it goes to show that everything is not as it appears on the surface... but got to admit that the Chrysler boys have done a good job in the exterior/interior design....lack of structural strength notwithstanding.

Have they improved the structure of the 300M recently ?

To elaborate a bit, the sheetmetal of the car does not determine structural strength...you could have an un-necessarily thick and heavy sheetmetal on the outside (which incidentally, needlessly adds weight to the car, with no benefit whatsoever) and a poor structure beneath it...it is the steel beams and ribs that come under the sheetmetal that determine the structural strength of the car....and from the Government crash video, it was obvious that the 300M has a long way to go to be safe in even a moderate crash.

just my 2c

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by hunter001 on March 07, 2001 @ ]</font>

GoldTypeS

In my fully biased opinion I'd have to say go with the TL-S. Einstein's point about resale is a very good one - even on a lease. Residual affects lease rates. Although Chrysler is hurting, once the initial sales frenzy over the TL-S dies down, they should be going for a reasonable price and I doubt you could get a 300M that much cheaper.

I've driven a 300M, but not with that performance pkg. The one thing that stuck in my mind was that it felt like the seats were filled with 2 X 4's. After a 20 minute test drive my lower back was KILLING me. I dunno what it is with Daimler-Crisis products, but the seats in every single one make my back hurt! The 300M has great style for sure, but I don't know that I'd call the TL "soulless." If you call the 300M a sexy, flashy design, then I'd say the TL has an understated elegance to it. I don't find it remotely boring in terms of styling and I'd even go so far as to say the 300M doesn't have anything on the TL in terms of styling.

Just my .02


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2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway bars
PIAA 19169 road lamps

Guest

Actually, I drove a 300M again yesterday... From the 2000 model I drove a few months back, the 2001 model felt much cheesier? I mean, I think DC cheapened the inside up and the materials? The build quality was definitely NOT the same... I am definitely NOT going to buy one...

I don't know if you guys know about what Daimler did/is doing to Chrysler, but I think it's becoming evident in their products... What was supposed to be a merger of equals has turned into a corporate rape job - Daimler Benz has eaten all of Chrysler's corporate reserves, passed their losses on to Chrysler's books, replaced all their top brass with Germans, etc. And, Chrysler's stock has tanked because of it - DB is slowly killing Chrysler...

Now, I did drive a few other things... the IS 300, the Maxima 20th Anniversary, 325i and 525i...

The IS 300 is a brilliant little car. Handles every bit as good as the BMW, is built just as well, and in general is just a blast to drive. But, $34K is too much to pay for one, I think. It does have a little more interior room than the 3-Series, but not much. The push-button-on-the-wheel shifter works remarkably well. The Torsen LSD in the rearend makes the car a blast to drive, with virtually no wheelspin. After driving a fully locked Jeep around, I'm used to what a TAD in the rearend does for you, and I actually prefer it in snow/ice (not like we get alot of that in Dallas).

The Maxima Anniversary - wow. The list of features is ridiculously long, including a limited slip up front. With the 5-Speed and 227 HP Infiniti variant of the 3.0L engine, it flat hauls some major ass. Handling was actually great. The rearend is definitely UGLY. hahahahaha... that's the only flaw in the car. For $29K with every option on the planet, it's a heck of a buy. IMHO, it would give the TL-S a definite run for the money. It would smoke a stock TL if the driver knew what he was doing. It felt a little tinnier, but hey, it's a Nissan.

The 325i I drove had the essentials - sport package, sunroof, HK stereo, 5 Speed. Sticker was $29.5K setup like that. Handling? Uhhhh, yeah. The 2.5L inline-6 is smooth and powerful. It launches well, and pulls hard. Definitely not as fast in the straightaway, but hit the corners and the BMW will pull away. The 525i I drove was setup essentially the same way - it didn't feel any bigger, though. It was a tad bit slower than the 325i, but rode and handled just as good. The 525i's sticker was $38.5K.

Now, I am very confused... hahahahaha. After driving a stick again, I just don't know if the Acura's SportShift will do it for me. I mean, it works well enough, but you still don't have the same control - can't feather the clutch, etc. Same goes for the IS 300.

One thing I do know - the 300M's out of contention.

grishulia

Do yourself a favor and go drive a Volvo S60... I bet you'll be surprised...

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Just my 2 cents...