CEL and TCS lights on, Vibrating, Misfire
12-17-2010, 08:50 AM
#1
3rd Gear
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CEL and TCS lights on, Vibrating, Misfire
Hi! This is my first time on the forum as I have inherited a pretty bad problem with the wifes 1999 TL. It's got 160,000 miles.
Heres background on how we noticed the problem. The other day, she was driving and suddenly the CEL and TCS lights came on and the car started vibrating like crazy... like steering wheel shakes, you can feel it in the seat dash and all over the car.
When she get home, The lights have went off and I can see that the pass side motor mount is gone, bushing disintegrated. So I go to Auto zone and grab one change it out and BAM!! its still doing the exact same thing.
at this point the lights come back on
So i have the codes read at autozone and its misfiring on several cylinders. I pick up new NGK platinum spark plugs ,a coil pack, bottle of seafoam and go to town.
First i seafoamed through that hose on the throttle body, and she smokes like hell so thats good. phase one of my attack Done.
then its time to change plugs/ try to find bad coil. I notice that cyl# 1 the spark plug is wet and smell like gas so I throw the new coil pack in there. The other 5 plugs looked bad but were not wet like that. I did notice that in my new coil, the metal connecter was not as loose as the other 5 coils. Any way, i reset the ECU by pullin fuse 13 and 12 and disconnecting the battery (just to be safe)while we were changing the plugs.
I start her up and it seems to be going smooth for a while so I shut her off and have a cigarette in satisfaction. Then immediatly after, i drive home from my buddies house and it comes back. Hardcore vibration and CEL + TCS AGAIN!!!
I'm all out here and I don't know what else to check other that spend Mad $$ on new coils for in hopes that it will help. Its mainly at idle, or with just a little throttle. at cruise speed its not that bad. any ideas?? i really need helpp on this one!!
Heres background on how we noticed the problem. The other day, she was driving and suddenly the CEL and TCS lights came on and the car started vibrating like crazy... like steering wheel shakes, you can feel it in the seat dash and all over the car.
When she get home, The lights have went off and I can see that the pass side motor mount is gone, bushing disintegrated. So I go to Auto zone and grab one change it out and BAM!! its still doing the exact same thing.
at this point the lights come back onSo i have the codes read at autozone and its misfiring on several cylinders. I pick up new NGK platinum spark plugs ,a coil pack, bottle of seafoam and go to town.
First i seafoamed through that hose on the throttle body, and she smokes like hell so thats good. phase one of my attack Done.
then its time to change plugs/ try to find bad coil. I notice that cyl# 1 the spark plug is wet and smell like gas so I throw the new coil pack in there. The other 5 plugs looked bad but were not wet like that. I did notice that in my new coil, the metal connecter was not as loose as the other 5 coils. Any way, i reset the ECU by pullin fuse 13 and 12 and disconnecting the battery (just to be safe)while we were changing the plugs.
I start her up and it seems to be going smooth for a while so I shut her off and have a cigarette in satisfaction. Then immediatly after, i drive home from my buddies house and it comes back. Hardcore vibration and CEL + TCS AGAIN!!!
I'm all out here and I don't know what else to check other that spend Mad $$ on new coils for in hopes that it will help. Its mainly at idle, or with just a little throttle. at cruise speed its not that bad. any ideas?? i really need helpp on this one!!
12-17-2010, 09:59 AM
#2
get to a parts store for code reading- that will help us
You may have more than 1 bad coil
A bad side mount- totally blown away!!--would be reason to inspect the other mounts especially the front and rear
those are vac boosted and failure will lead to many problems
Usually the front goes then several thousand miles later the side takes a hit from the extra load
Seafoam- you used the MASTER vac port with the metal nipple, extending from TB area?
or some other hose?
You may have more than 1 bad coil
A bad side mount- totally blown away!!--would be reason to inspect the other mounts especially the front and rear
those are vac boosted and failure will lead to many problems
Usually the front goes then several thousand miles later the side takes a hit from the extra load
Seafoam- you used the MASTER vac port with the metal nipple, extending from TB area?
or some other hose?
12-17-2010, 10:00 AM
#3
clean each coil connector and fuel injector connection with CRC and apply dielectric grease to protect
12-17-2010, 10:15 AM
#4
3rd Gear
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Thanks for the reply! the other mounts look good from the top and there is no fluid leaking from them. I havent jacked the car up to look from the bottom but I'll put that on my priorities list.
I put the Seafoam in a small tube coming off the throttle body. it had hella suction when i disconnected it so i figured it would disperse it pretty good through the intake mani.
What all do i have to take off to get to the injectors?
I put the Seafoam in a small tube coming off the throttle body. it had hella suction when i disconnected it so i figured it would disperse it pretty good through the intake mani.
What all do i have to take off to get to the injectors?
12-19-2010, 10:32 PM
#6
get to a parts store for code reading- that will help us
You may have more than 1 bad coil
A bad side mount- totally blown away!!--would be reason to inspect the other mounts especially the front and rear
those are vac boosted and failure will lead to many problems
Usually the front goes then several thousand miles later the side takes a hit from the extra load
Seafoam- you used the MASTER vac port with the metal nipple, extending from TB area?
or some other hose?
You may have more than 1 bad coil
A bad side mount- totally blown away!!--would be reason to inspect the other mounts especially the front and rear
those are vac boosted and failure will lead to many problems
Usually the front goes then several thousand miles later the side takes a hit from the extra load
Seafoam- you used the MASTER vac port with the metal nipple, extending from TB area?
or some other hose?
12-20-2010, 11:11 AM
#7
He did buy 1 coil and install on plug with fuel saturation
the post doesnt indicate it was moved, and if I read correctly- codes were not ckd before coil replacement and now it says multi cyl misfire
Often it really is one of the cyls listed that is bad
try the new coil on the listed cyls and see if it helps- reset with clock fuse each time
When changing spark plugs its easy to damage a coil and not know it
the master vac port for seafoam has a squeeze type hose clamp on it- only one like it anywhere near there~
the post doesnt indicate it was moved, and if I read correctly- codes were not ckd before coil replacement and now it says multi cyl misfire
Often it really is one of the cyls listed that is bad
try the new coil on the listed cyls and see if it helps- reset with clock fuse each time
When changing spark plugs its easy to damage a coil and not know it
the master vac port for seafoam has a squeeze type hose clamp on it- only one like it anywhere near there~
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12-20-2010, 11:14 AM
#8
ck out the front and rear motor mounts asap-
with the side mount blown out, chances are high at least one of those is bad and causes a vac leak
with the side mount blown out, chances are high at least one of those is bad and causes a vac leak
12-20-2010, 01:36 PM
#9
He did buy 1 coil and install on plug with fuel saturation
the post doesnt indicate it was moved, and if I read correctly- codes were not ckd before coil replacement and now it says multi cyl misfire
Often it really is one of the cyls listed that is bad
try the new coil on the listed cyls and see if it helps- reset with clock fuse each time
When changing spark plugs its easy to damage a coil and not know it
the master vac port for seafoam has a squeeze type hose clamp on it- only one like it anywhere near there~
the post doesnt indicate it was moved, and if I read correctly- codes were not ckd before coil replacement and now it says multi cyl misfire
Often it really is one of the cyls listed that is bad
try the new coil on the listed cyls and see if it helps- reset with clock fuse each time
When changing spark plugs its easy to damage a coil and not know it
the master vac port for seafoam has a squeeze type hose clamp on it- only one like it anywhere near there~
12-20-2010, 05:16 PM
#10
not exactly- it will say multi cyl misfire (example) cyl 1 4 5 6 when its really 1 coil
Dealer would sell you 6 coils- to be safe~
But you can buy 1 and start with the first listed cyl, move to each listed as needed,,might not even be one of the listed!! might need 2
Dealer would sell you 6 coils- to be safe~
But you can buy 1 and start with the first listed cyl, move to each listed as needed,,might not even be one of the listed!! might need 2
12-22-2010, 04:40 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
mine currently is doing the same thing but the only different is that the eng. light come on and off but the vsa light stay on.
My machanic told me that it is cause by the coil tube that got busted.he told me because the tube is busted that's y the read mis-fire...he is going to order the tube and replace it for me...
My machanic told me that it is cause by the coil tube that got busted.he told me because the tube is busted that's y the read mis-fire...he is going to order the tube and replace it for me...
12-22-2010, 08:29 PM
#12
do you mean a coil has failed and he ordered one for you?
Make sure he knows the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash is how you reset the ECU after coil install
Make sure he knows the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash is how you reset the ECU after coil install
12-23-2010, 07:06 PM
#14
I dont know every single part on the car, and if you can buy parts of the coil seperate
As long as it gets fixed,,,please let us know what it was in the end! cost etc
As long as it gets fixed,,,please let us know what it was in the end! cost etc
12-24-2010, 02:00 AM
#16
thats what I thought--So it has a crack in the tube part of the coil-
causing arcing and misfire--got it
How did it get broken? diy spark plug change?
everyone be really careful with the coils- treat like Grandmas finest china!!--
set gently on towel when removed from car
causing arcing and misfire--got it
How did it get broken? diy spark plug change?
everyone be really careful with the coils- treat like Grandmas finest china!!--
set gently on towel when removed from car
12-26-2010, 08:36 PM
#17
Intermediate
I'm glad I found this thread right on the first page. I'm having similar issues, and took my TL to an AutoZone for obd check and it gave me codes P0300-305 and a P0116. I know that 300-305 are cylinders 1-5, but does it necessarily mean that I'm getting a misfire from all five? I remember reading that even if I have a misfire in just one it could cause the rest to show as misfire. I plan on picking up a coil pack tomorrow to try the moving between spot to spot method.
Also, where's the coolant temp sensor located?
May as well grab one of them and replace it since it's giving me the code for it.
Also, where's the coolant temp sensor located?
May as well grab one of them and replace it since it's giving me the code for it.
12-27-2010, 10:37 AM
#18
do you have any problem with temp guage not sitting 1-2 clicks below half?
codes are clues and often mis clues~
on coil YES buy only 1
start on first listed cyl of possibles - reset ECU by pulling the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash,,its number 12 or 13 of the fuses
reinsert after 1 minute- start car and drive to see if lights come back on
if so, move to next listed cyl, reset ecu etc.
its also easy to look at the spark plugs as you go- the wet one is the dead coil and should be replaced along with its bad coil
codes are clues and often mis clues~
on coil YES buy only 1
start on first listed cyl of possibles - reset ECU by pulling the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash,,its number 12 or 13 of the fuses
reinsert after 1 minute- start car and drive to see if lights come back on
if so, move to next listed cyl, reset ecu etc.
its also easy to look at the spark plugs as you go- the wet one is the dead coil and should be replaced along with its bad coil
12-27-2010, 10:39 AM
#19
some CRC electrical contact cleaner on the coil wire/power connections
and some spark plug socket grease shoved in them will prevent furture problems in portland weather
and some spark plug socket grease shoved in them will prevent furture problems in portland weather
12-27-2010, 12:21 PM
#20
Intermediate
I actually do have that problem, but usually when I come to a stop. While in motion the gauge generally stays between a quarter and half. After stopping it can rise as high as a little above three quarter.
12-27-2010, 05:47 PM
#21
ok you may have a thermostat problem or a temp sendor issue
the TL temps stays constant all the time--1-2 lines below half
iirc, taking the wire to the sensor to ground should cause a full deflection of the guage needle, meaning guage works right
how is the fan on driver side working behind radiator
should run on and off while driving and stay on 1-2 minutes after shutdown
longer run time or no run time means fan temp sendor- bottem right (pass side) of rad failed
the TL temps stays constant all the time--1-2 lines below half
iirc, taking the wire to the sensor to ground should cause a full deflection of the guage needle, meaning guage works right
how is the fan on driver side working behind radiator
should run on and off while driving and stay on 1-2 minutes after shutdown
longer run time or no run time means fan temp sendor- bottem right (pass side) of rad failed
12-27-2010, 05:49 PM
#22
how is the fluid level in rad? up to the bottem of the filler neck?
and the cap seal looks good no cracks in the rubber
res bottle at max cold? and the rubber hose inside its cap is on tight?
car year, miles, 105 service done?
and the cap seal looks good no cracks in the rubber
res bottle at max cold? and the rubber hose inside its cap is on tight?
car year, miles, 105 service done?
12-27-2010, 05:51 PM
#23
who can describe/locate the actual temp sensor to tell the guage,,for bryan
maybe the code got this one right!!
maybe the code got this one right!!
12-27-2010, 11:32 PM
#24
Sorry to thread hijack but can someone list the number positioning for each coil? If your facing the engine straight on is the front 3 from left to right 1,2,3? and the rear is 4,5,6? I got a P0302 cylinder 2 misfire code and wasn't sure which one was 2. So I switched the place of the front 2 and reset to see if i would get a P0301 code. I didn't I got P1399, which is all cylinders. I'm getting a new coil tomorrow so hopefully it will fix my issue.
12-28-2010, 12:40 AM
#25
Intermediate
ok you may have a thermostat problem or a temp sendor issue
the TL temps stays constant all the time--1-2 lines below half
iirc, taking the wire to the sensor to ground should cause a full deflection of the guage needle, meaning guage works right
how is the fan on driver side working behind radiator
should run on and off while driving and stay on 1-2 minutes after shutdown
longer run time or no run time means fan temp sendor- bottem right (pass side) of rad failed
the TL temps stays constant all the time--1-2 lines below half
iirc, taking the wire to the sensor to ground should cause a full deflection of the guage needle, meaning guage works right
how is the fan on driver side working behind radiator
should run on and off while driving and stay on 1-2 minutes after shutdown
longer run time or no run time means fan temp sendor- bottem right (pass side) of rad failed
The fan does stay on for a few minutes after shut down. Or rather, it kicks on for a few minutes after shut down. I don't know if that's how it is supposed to work.
The res bottle was running really low but the hose is on tight.
12-28-2010, 01:07 AM
#26
if res bottle low,, somewhere you are losing coolant
pressure test system for rock hits or loose hose clamp
with a bad cap history, I would replace the thermostat-- and hope it wasnt overheated at any point
pressure test system for rock hits or loose hose clamp
with a bad cap history, I would replace the thermostat-- and hope it wasnt overheated at any point
12-28-2010, 01:10 AM
#27
03 charcoal
rear cyls -firewall side of engine looking from front bumper
pass to driver 1-2-3
front cyls behind radiator: 4-5-6
reset ECU after coil movement/install by removing CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash for a minute
rear cyls -firewall side of engine looking from front bumper
pass to driver 1-2-3
front cyls behind radiator: 4-5-6
reset ECU after coil movement/install by removing CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash for a minute
12-28-2010, 01:12 AM
#28
bryan - when you shut the engine off the driver side fan comes on to handle the sudden temp spike
If it runs more than a few minutes,,or not at all-- there is a problem with its sensor in the rad- very common failure
If it runs more than a few minutes,,or not at all-- there is a problem with its sensor in the rad- very common failure
12-28-2010, 12:11 PM
#29
Intermediate
Before I discovered the cap was bad I was really good about making sure the car was at home before any overheating.
12-28-2010, 08:21 PM
#30
even 3/4 temp is bad for the TL,,not fatal like a few trips into redline is
but something to make you take care of the problem immediatly-
dont drive the car if temp guage goes above 1-2 lines below half!!
It should run right there regardless of ac on, or hills, or 100 degrees outside
but something to make you take care of the problem immediatly-
dont drive the car if temp guage goes above 1-2 lines below half!!
It should run right there regardless of ac on, or hills, or 100 degrees outside
12-28-2010, 09:17 PM
#31
Intermediate
I hear that. Since I started getting the misfire issues the temp hasn't risen any higher than half way. That may be a good sign, but I bought the thermostat just in case after I get the coil taken care of. Luckily I live and work downtown, which means driving is definitely kept to a minimum.
I'm hoping to have some time after work tomorrow to run the new coil from spot to spot to see which one is giving me the issue. I'll be sure to check for any coolant leaks while I'm under the hood.
I'm hoping to have some time after work tomorrow to run the new coil from spot to spot to see which one is giving me the issue. I'll be sure to check for any coolant leaks while I'm under the hood.
12-29-2010, 09:59 AM
#32
stick the thermostat in now- fix the temp issue
and a coil plus maybe plugs is your other likely problem
plugs -allegedly good till 105- but those who replace plugs with more than 60kmiles find improvement
if they are stock at 140 I would not be surprised if one or more has really worn out bad!
and a coil plus maybe plugs is your other likely problem
plugs -allegedly good till 105- but those who replace plugs with more than 60kmiles find improvement
if they are stock at 140 I would not be surprised if one or more has really worn out bad!
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