2K2SilverTL-S

Pretty interesting, Car and driver got the TL-S to 60 in 6.2 sec and through the quater mile in 14.8 seconds. They even mention how the TL-S is QUICKER than the 330i MANUAL by 0.6 seconds to 100 MPH!
What I continue to be amazed at is how the TL-S continues to be running better times in major magazines than the previous CL-S's they tested. Does anyone have any explination?

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2002 Satin Silver TL-S With Navi
Xenon Plus Fog Light Bulbs

hunter001

Is it because they worked out the bugs in the Engine/Transmission (of the CL-s), before introducing it in the TL-s ??



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

sboje

Sounds like the TL-S is really strong in gears 2 and 3? That's my best guess. I'm kinda surprised by the numbers, but I guess that is what 260HP can do for you.

I assume that if you are alongside a 330 on the highway and punch it, they won't catch you. If they have a manual, they have to downshift, and the auto probably doesn't have enough power to the wheels.

BMW has never been the fastest cars around. It is pretty sickening that they charge $6000 to upgrade from a 2.5l engine to a 3.0l engine. I believe you can pick up a 320 in Canada for about $23k US. Yet you can option out a 330xi and end up paying over $45k. I can't imagine it even costs an additional $5k to build the $45k version, so they have to be making a killing on the profit.

With cars like the TL-S, I think it will be harder for BMW to charge $6k for a modest engine upgrade. Unfortunately, the sales numbers aren't showing that yet.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I betcha I can downshift from 5th to 2nd or 3rd faster in a manual than you can in your automatic An automatic has to think about it before responding to a WOT (wide open throttle) on the highway -- in the manual, it's up to the agility and experience of the manual driver -- all he has to do is drop clutch, zip the stick to 2nd and pop it and while slamming on the gas. The 330Ci has about 180-185hp to the wheels out of a 225hp (at the crank) engine -- the TL-S is getting near 200hp to the front wheels .. that 15 hp is not going to mean a whole lotta anything at those speeds -- it just depends on who gets the first jump on the throttle, and who has shorter gearing.

I beg to differ about BMW having the fastest cars on the road -- unless you're referring to paltry domestic muscle cars as being faster, then consider then 330Ci running 6.1 to 60mph and 14.7 in the 1/4, and the M3 and M5 .. need I mentioned their popular car mag stats? You get what you pay for, and sometimes, you pay for what you get .. regarding long-term reliability.

sboje

I was stating that if you hit the gas first, you are going to win. There is no way the other driver will be able to react in time to catch up... assuming the numbers at the top of this thread are correct.

Of course, only the cars that aren't 'paltry' in your opinion count right? Nevermind that many cars will accelerate faster than a 325 or 525 with automatic transmission... and those are pretty popular configs. Many are roughly equivelent to a 528 with auto also. I agree that the 3l engines have less competition, but that is changing, and MOST of the BMWs on the road have a 2.8l or smaller engine with an auto tranny.

vandy786

Is this review posted on the C&D website? If so, please post a link to it. Thanks.

Road Rage

Re: TL-S vs. CL-S

Variables in engines, test conditions, etc can produce those sort of variances.

Other than that, my guess is that the TL-S' better stance (longer wheelbase) has something to do with it.

thejavagod

the 330i feels like quite a fast car! I found it more able than the TLS while passing..perhaps the astonishing agility of a BMW had something to do with it, I found the TLS taking quite some time to downshift and get into the higher RPM range when you punch the gas??

rockinTLS

Yes, on occasion. I noticed a REAL slow downshift this evening. I was in D5 at 45 and I think the car decided to drop into 2 when I punched it. It seemed like forever to get there.

But, then again, just yesterday I was doing 70 on the highway in 5th(SS)and had to fit through a hole. I dropped it into 4 and the car took off like a bat out of hell. Didn't even have to floor it.

Maybe I just need to get used to the trans.

RUF87

Peter - I beg to differ on that. I bet I could beat you with my old 64 Malibu SS with a TH350. Oh, I should tell you it was fully race prepared and a complete manual body. ;-)

But if you are talking stock autos, then absolutely. That's why I believe that you do get better times manually shifting from D1.

SS is nice, but the manual mode is much better for me if I'm out collecting badges for my left front fender. But it is way to complicated for effect down-shifts.

RUF87

Yes - play with it and you'll find that it has some real sweet spots and some dead ones.

What you need to do is check your RPMs in each gear. Find out when down-shifts to the next or lowest gear result in a RPM of at least 4500. If it's lower, especially below 4000RPM, ist's not that quick. It has to work to get to it's powerband. VTEC mode that is.

Probably explains why I was able to give a guy in a modified Mustang GT fits. He was out toying around and I decided to see how quick the TLS really is. Or more appropriately, see how bad I'd get beat.

Well the first time we jumped it from 50MPH. I hung in to 80 fairly well and had to stop for a red light. Thought to myself maybe he wasn't really going for it. We launch on green and he took me by 2 car lengths to 50MPH before some "dork" pulls out in front of us and then turns on the very next street. BTW - He didn't spin his tires at all and I did a bit. So we slow both slow down to 30 and nail it again. This time I stick with him to 70 before we come up on another light.

This was good enough for me. I suspect that the GT was not in his prime RPM range and I was so it was a good joust. Anyway, the TLS is quite the contender if you can get the other guy to run in the 30 or 50 range.

SIGH! What a set of tires and a real transmission would do for us. :-)

RUF87

MotorWeek also just had a 2 min spot on the TV show.

Their results were 6.6 to 60 and 15.1 in the 1/4 mile.

They also had some nice things to say about the TL-S' handling. Being right up there with the best AWD and RWD cars from Europe.

Their words not mine. (not better mind you)

They also liked the overall ride and breaking.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Ruf --

I don't doubt it -- (regarding the Malibu). A manual tranny just allows you to do so much more w/ the car than the auto -- so, even though automatics may one day be able to shift fast enough to pulls very close runs w/ their automatic counterparts, they'll still leave something to be desired on the true performance end of motoring.

RUF87

Peter,

I wasn't doubting your shifting abilities or trying to compare my SS Malibu. I was being tacky with you because I was comparing a fully drag racing prepared TH350 to standard autos. The standard TH350 had some of the faster shift points around. But with the modes it was too much for guys with sticks to keep up with. In terms of shifting. What I mean is that the TH350 I had built shifted so fast that the only chance a stick guy had was if his gearbox was set up really well and the guy could just speed shift. Meaning not need to use the clutch when upshifting. I did have one manual car that had a good 1st to 2nd, but 2nd and up were always a bit hard.

Ruf

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

That reminds me of the upcoming F1-paddle shift in the M3 (2002 I believe). It's similar to the F1-shifter in the Ferrari Marenello I believe. This will no doubt be quicker shifting than any human being, since the clutch is controlled by a solenoid electronically for maximum shift speed -- however, my only concerning interest was regarding how you would launch this new M3 -- is there a way to brake-torque that would produce the same result as if you revved to 3000rpms and popped the clutch?
What are you thoughts?
-Pete

JetJock

what issue of Car&Driver is the article in?


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JetJock

Anyone know what issue of Car&Driver the article is in? I just saw the June issue and there is an article about the RSX but nothing about the TLS

1SICKLEX

Ever notice that every Acura tested in Car and Driver (my fav auto mag) has been a sneak peak, a very small 1 page article in the back of the book. Wonder why?

SimTypeS

Ever wonder why someone with a Lexus would check out an Acura board?

thephantom

I would have to say... ENVY!



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Those who know, don't talk.

thejavagod

I doubt anyone who does not own an Acura or at least is considering getting one is going to waste their time here.

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2001 Lexus RX300 AWD Navi
2002 Acura 3.2TL Type S Navi

Xorg

This is the July 2001 issue with "Dressed to Thrill" on the cover. The full page TLS preview is towards the back and features a shot of an Aegean Blue TLS.

2K2SilverTL-S

The article is in the back of the July issue of Car and Driver....It's a "short take" test.

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2002 Satin Silver TL-S With Navi
Xenon Plus Fog Light Bulbs

pianoman41

The Car & Driver television show also featured a segment on the TL-S, using the Aegean Blue one from their test. I think the show covered much more than the article did. They gave thumbs up to the entire car *except* for the navigation system. Although they said it was probably the best OEM nav on the market today, they hated how the manual A/C & vent controls were on the touch screen. They said you always have to take your eyes off the road to make the adjustment, whereas the non-nav cars could do it by "feel." They said their choice would be the non-nav. They didn't mention any of that in the article.

Matt

1SICKLEX

Actually it's pretty funny reading most of the stuff here, plus I promised my best friends sis I'd look into stuff to help her hook up her TL and this is a great board for the info I need.

Envy, trying to buy an Acura, I think not, but if u look at some of my other posts we agree on some things.

An auto enthusiast is an auto enthusiast and I am glad to see all these people here hooking up they're rides......

RUF87

Whoohoo on the thought of a electronically controlled manual. Were did you read this. I would like to check it out. Perhaps I should go down to the BMW dealer on my BMW nut collegue. He owns two BMWs and a big BMW bike.

As for how to launch it, I have'nt a clue. I'd have to learn more about it or actually drive it. That said, my best guess is that the electronics have the smarts in them to know when you are stopped and want to rev it up and go. I hope is still has some sort of clutch or torque converter mechanism. Otherwise it's going to be one rude launch.

RUF

UCITL

F1-style paddles? i thought they're going to use the SMG like the European E36 M3s.

GS430

UCITL thanks for defending Lexus in another Thread. TL is an awesome ride as well. Are you from UCI ? ME2!!! you mite seen me around in campus sometimes =D. let me know alrite? my aim is xintensive

EricL

The wheels are lighter than the CL-S wheels. (Note: I haven't weighed them, but the TL-S uses 6.5" vs the 7.0" CL-S wheels.)

If someone could see if the TL-S stock wheels weight less than the 26 lbs for the CL-S wheels, this would help explain some stuff.

There was also that MT test of the CL-S with the 14.8 1/4 mile. Hmmm... can you say magazines test under different conditions.

Acura would also be foolish to NOT make improvements where they could, and the TL-S came out 2nd.

BTW -- the reason I mentioned the wheels is... I changed from the stock CL-S wheels (26lbs and 26lb tires) to 14lb wheels and 23.8 lb Toyo T1S 235/45ZR-97W* Proxies. I lost about 50 lbs in static and DYNAMIC weight (all wheels -- rotational inertia is a b?tch). The people who put on the SSR comps (as I did) feel like 2 fatties were tossed out of the car. A 1/4 miler running near 15 seconds with headers and CAI, now runs about 14.3 1/4 miles (and not at 30 degrees) at the track.

Finally, I think you guys will have less problems with scratched wheels (hopefully).



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SimTypeS

1SICKLEX, yeah, I know what you mean about auto enthusiasts, and to each their own. You have to stick up for what you have, and like, so it's all cool as long as people don't Troll around and just bash boards. I love my TLS and am very happy I got it rather than an IS300 or a 330i, EXCEPT for no e-brake handle.

As for the next BMW M3 having F1-style shifting, they will be using the new SMG-II. If you want to learn more about it, go to www.roadfly.com and check out the E46 board, or the E46 M3 board. I hear Porsche's new Triptronic (or whatever they call theirs) has ran faster lap times at their track than a manual transmission has. I know it's nice to have a manual at times, for the real driving experience, but... there are those times you wish you didn't have to manually shift.

Play nice...