89 gas... can it really hurt??
#41
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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tips to saving gas:
keep windows closed (better aerodynamic performance)
keep A/C off (runs on gas)
accelerate slower
drive slower
always drive in the highest gear while cruising
keep windows closed (better aerodynamic performance)
keep A/C off (runs on gas)
accelerate slower
drive slower
always drive in the highest gear while cruising
#42
This thread needs to die!! This has been argued over and over before. My only comment would be...don't buy an Acura that needs premium if you can't afford it. It's true...eventually the computer will adjust for shit gas....but the engine was never designed to run on low octane gas. The one and only time I ever used cheap gas..and it was premium btw....just from the grocery store pumps..and not a good brand...my car started knocking after 50 miles on that shit gasoline. I never did it again. If you can't afford the gas...don't buy the car...PERIOD!!
#43
I might add here for those that add the techron once a month to their regular fueled TL:
They may replace the fuel additives/detergents that 87 octane fuel doesn't have, but they aren't doing a bit of good for their engine by having the knock sensor kicking in 3 weeks out of 4.
I usually run Shell V-power, or BP 93.
I ran 1/2 tank of 89 octane BP, and I could HEAR the knocking. I mean, there is a serious difference. I realize I am running the more knock prone "07 TL-S, but I said NEVER AGAIN!
They may replace the fuel additives/detergents that 87 octane fuel doesn't have, but they aren't doing a bit of good for their engine by having the knock sensor kicking in 3 weeks out of 4.
I usually run Shell V-power, or BP 93.
I ran 1/2 tank of 89 octane BP, and I could HEAR the knocking. I mean, there is a serious difference. I realize I am running the more knock prone "07 TL-S, but I said NEVER AGAIN!
#44
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
It was either Car & Driver or Road & Track that performed actual dyno tests on cars last year and switched them from 93 to 87 octane. For those cars that were designed to use premium fuel, and used regular, caused power losses up to 10%. Power loss = loss of efficiency.
FYI - 87 oc has more btus per gal of gas then 91oc. The more refined the less energy is in the gas. Plain and simple.
I started pumping the cheap 87 gas for the last year, once we got around 2.50/gal my reaction was to save money.
A lot of people on this board know little to nothing about what actually happens when you pump regular gas. They'll tell you it's going to damage your motor and you might even have higher 'maintenance bills'. These people simply do not understand what happens when the motor detects knocking and the by products of combustion. The motor does adjust and I would really like to see some hard research to say the difference in gas will cause anything but a power reduction.
I've talked to two thermal dynamics professionals, neither could see any damages caused by burning 87oc if the motor can detect it. Now if it cannot detect it their could be issues. The 2nd gen TL can, so I've read.
The run down- my 00 TL is rated at 225 hp, actual is likely around 190 at the wheels. Even with a drop of 15% horse power I'm still driving around with 160 horse power at the wheels.
Now maybe I don't need to push every last ponny out of this motor and others do. But the difference in power means I have a heavier wallet. Even if I save $300-500/year burning cheaper gas, it's money in my wallet. I had to earn it and instead of burning it I have more choices.
So with all that said I seem to be of the few people here actually getting good milage. Avg 24mpg mix, 20-23 city, 30+ highway. So if all these people are RIGHT that 91+ oc gas is the only way to get better milage I would love to know what they are getting for their MPG.
As surely as the facts are facts they most be getting at LEAST 10% more, meaning a majority of these people are getting 33mpg highway.
Car runs perfectly, smog says its a clean as new and I'm getting better mpg then the average.
#45
One of the reasons that the TL meets ULEV, is that it uses the premium fuel to increase combustion efficiency.
IMO, everyone who has bought a TL/TL-S knew, or at least should have known what the requirements were when they bought it. Anything less constitutes abuse, and any dealer will tell you that whether they enforce it or not.
IMO, everyone who has bought a TL/TL-S knew, or at least should have known what the requirements were when they bought it. Anything less constitutes abuse, and any dealer will tell you that whether they enforce it or not.
#46
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
One of the reasons that the TL meets ULEV, is that it uses the premium fuel to increase combustion efficiency.
IMO, everyone who has bought a TL/TL-S knew, or at least should have known what the requirements were when they bought it. Anything less constitutes abuse, and any dealer will tell you that whether they enforce it or not.
IMO, everyone who has bought a TL/TL-S knew, or at least should have known what the requirements were when they bought it. Anything less constitutes abuse, and any dealer will tell you that whether they enforce it or not.
I asked the tech about my emissions and he said, perfect. It has the same emissions as it was spec'd to have new. Go figure.
I think the gas thing is all about power.
#48
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by S PAW 1
One of the reasons that the TL meets ULEV, is that it uses the premium fuel to increase combustion efficiency.
#49
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by rob-2
Please pass along a link. Lose of power does not equal reduced gas milage.
FYI - 87 oc has more btus per gal of gas then 91oc. The more refined the less energy is in the gas. Plain and simple.
I started pumping the cheap 87 gas for the last year, once we got around 2.50/gal my reaction was to save money.
A lot of people on this board know little to nothing about what actually happens when you pump regular gas. They'll tell you it's going to damage your motor and you might even have higher 'maintenance bills'. These people simply do not understand what happens when the motor detects knocking and the by products of combustion. The motor does adjust and I would really like to see some hard research to say the difference in gas will cause anything but a power reduction.
I've talked to two thermal dynamics professionals, neither could see any damages caused by burning 87oc if the motor can detect it. Now if it cannot detect it their could be issues. The 2nd gen TL can, so I've read.
The run down- my 00 TL is rated at 225 hp, actual is likely around 190 at the wheels. Even with a drop of 15% horse power I'm still driving around with 160 horse power at the wheels.
Now maybe I don't need to push every last ponny out of this motor and others do. But the difference in power means I have a heavier wallet. Even if I save $300-500/year burning cheaper gas, it's money in my wallet. I had to earn it and instead of burning it I have more choices.
So with all that said I seem to be of the few people here actually getting good milage. Avg 24mpg mix, 20-23 city, 30+ highway. So if all these people are RIGHT that 91+ oc gas is the only way to get better milage I would love to know what they are getting for their MPG.
As surely as the facts are facts they most be getting at LEAST 10% more, meaning a majority of these people are getting 33mpg highway.
Car runs perfectly, smog says its a clean as new and I'm getting better mpg then the average.
FYI - 87 oc has more btus per gal of gas then 91oc. The more refined the less energy is in the gas. Plain and simple.
I started pumping the cheap 87 gas for the last year, once we got around 2.50/gal my reaction was to save money.
A lot of people on this board know little to nothing about what actually happens when you pump regular gas. They'll tell you it's going to damage your motor and you might even have higher 'maintenance bills'. These people simply do not understand what happens when the motor detects knocking and the by products of combustion. The motor does adjust and I would really like to see some hard research to say the difference in gas will cause anything but a power reduction.
I've talked to two thermal dynamics professionals, neither could see any damages caused by burning 87oc if the motor can detect it. Now if it cannot detect it their could be issues. The 2nd gen TL can, so I've read.
The run down- my 00 TL is rated at 225 hp, actual is likely around 190 at the wheels. Even with a drop of 15% horse power I'm still driving around with 160 horse power at the wheels.
Now maybe I don't need to push every last ponny out of this motor and others do. But the difference in power means I have a heavier wallet. Even if I save $300-500/year burning cheaper gas, it's money in my wallet. I had to earn it and instead of burning it I have more choices.
So with all that said I seem to be of the few people here actually getting good milage. Avg 24mpg mix, 20-23 city, 30+ highway. So if all these people are RIGHT that 91+ oc gas is the only way to get better milage I would love to know what they are getting for their MPG.
As surely as the facts are facts they most be getting at LEAST 10% more, meaning a majority of these people are getting 33mpg highway.
Car runs perfectly, smog says its a clean as new and I'm getting better mpg then the average.
This was my latest tank, cruise set the whole time. (14.3 gallons went into the tank)
![](http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5034/0313081038dr8.jpg)
Originally Posted by rob-2
When I smog checked in Northern Cal, I had regular in the tank. I actually didn't think anything of it.
I asked the tech about my emissions and he said, perfect. It has the same emissions as it was spec'd to have new. Go figure.
I think the gas thing is all about power.
I asked the tech about my emissions and he said, perfect. It has the same emissions as it was spec'd to have new. Go figure.
I think the gas thing is all about power.
#50
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
And how do you think it makes the power? The more efficient the motor the more power it makes. The more efficient the motor the better gas mileage it makes. No one said it was bad for the motor, nor did any one say your motor was going to blow up. It will however make a difference in performance and mileage.
As far as the ruining the engine nonsense, as long as you do regular servicing and throw in some injector cleaner every now and then, it is a non issue.
#52
Originally Posted by Seikoja
here is my question about 89 gas how comes u get more gas mileage from 93 octane than 89?
As far as the ruining the engine nonsense, as long as you do regular servicing and throw in some injector cleaner every now and then, it is a non issue.
You need to reread post#43. If you are constantly having to engage the knock sensor, it will eventually wear out. Do you think that's good for your engine in the long run? Or maybe you don't care?
#53
Originally Posted by Seikoja
here is my question about 89 gas how comes u get more gas mileage from 93 octane than 89?
[Quote, AZP-TL]
As far as the ruining the engine nonsense, as long as you do regular servicing and throw in some injector cleaner every now and then, it is a non issue.
You need to reread post#43. If you are constantly having to engage the knock sensor, it will eventually wear out. Do you think that's good for your engine in the long run? Or maybe you don't care?
#55
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
You need to reread post#43. If you are constantly having to engage the knock sensor, it will eventually wear out. Do you think that's good for your engine in the long run? Or maybe you don't care?
#56
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by AZP-TL
The fact of the matter is that using 87 octane is perfectly fine with our cars, they simply adjust for it and yes you get a reduction in power. Seems to me alot of you are leadfoots/power nuts, of course your mileage will go down if you pound on the gas every time you accelerate and/or speed and waste all that kinetic energy by turning it into heat when you come to a screeching hault at a stop light. It's all in how you drive, if you like to race and do any of the above then 91+ will be beneficial to you, although your mileage could be much better if you drive conservatively with either types of gas. Ultimately, using 87 doesn't hurt anything but adjust to it or you may end up paying more in lost mileage. It all depends on each individual.
As far as the ruining the engine nonsense, as long as you do regular servicing and throw in some injector cleaner every now and then, it is a non issue.
As far as the ruining the engine nonsense, as long as you do regular servicing and throw in some injector cleaner every now and then, it is a non issue.
And you can have a heavy foot and still get good mileage with these cars. Look at mine. (and it did before the swap as well)
Originally Posted by AZP-TL
Obviously knocking isn't good, if the engine knocks then you want to get off that gas, if it doesn't then no, I don't care. The cars were designed to be able to take 89 and adjust accordingly.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
Also running on lower fuel will put more deposits in the motor and more stress on the cat to do its job.
#57
Originally Posted by AZP-TL
Obviously knocking isn't good, if the engine knocks then you want to get off that gas, if it doesn't then no, I don't care. The cars were designed to be able to take 89 and adjust accordingly.
No, they were NOT designed to take 89 and adjust.
If they were, they wouldn't have put "premium fuel only" on your gas cap
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#58
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
No, they were NOT designed to take 89 and adjust.
If they were, they wouldn't have put "premium fuel only" on your gas cap![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
If they were, they wouldn't have put "premium fuel only" on your gas cap
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#59
Instructor
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people dont understand the cars were tuned on 91 octane that means the ecu is design for that gas any tuner knos if a car is tuned for a certain octane runnin any lower will destroy the engine.
#60
Racer
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you guys who say the car is designed for anything less than what it calls for are idiots. If youre so smart go to work for Acura and and they can get rid of the techs and engineers over there who have spent years developing products, so some "kid" can tell them that it is nonsense. Obviously we should be ;letting you guys design the next batch of Acura engines because you know better.
#61
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
No, they were NOT designed to take 89 and adjust.
If they were, they wouldn't have put "premium fuel only" on your gas cap![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
If they were, they wouldn't have put "premium fuel only" on your gas cap
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
you guys who say the car is designed for anything less than what it calls for are idiots. If youre so smart go to work for Acura and and they can get rid of the techs and engineers over there who have spent years developing products, so some "kid" can tell them that it is nonsense. Obviously we should be ;letting you guys design the next batch of Acura engines because you know better.
#64
Originally Posted by chrismeoli
they dont say to use 89, why do you keep saying that. look at your gas cap
#66
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
If, at 60mph, you are producing 10 more hp by using premium fuel, you are able to decrease the hp needed to overcome drag, ie: less throttle opening.
I think we all forget, this are not high end motors.
But hey, burn what you like. Just dont think because you type it, it is anything but an opinion. Your motor will run for a 300K on any pump gas you put in it. Now if you drive like you own an F1 car, what you pump is moot point.
fsttyms1 - on my next trip to AZ and back I'll show you how to get 600miles to a tank. 85mph cruise on 87 oc.
#67
-Arsenic-
I can't believe this thread got to 3 pages. Its simple, really. If you can't afford the 3 DOLLAR DIFFERENCE at the end of a fill up, buy a civic. With a price difference as minimal as it is, just shut up and deal with it. Thats the cost of having a nice car. You can't buy a TL and then bitch about a 3 dollar per tank difference. Seriously.
Whoo, end of rant.
Whoo, end of rant.
#68
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by rob-2
fsttyms1 - on my next trip to AZ and back I'll show you how to get 600miles to a tank. 85mph cruise on 87 oc.
#69
Instructor
Originally Posted by 02type-s
I can't believe this thread got to 3 pages. Its simple, really. If you can't afford the 3 DOLLAR DIFFERENCE at the end of a fill up, buy a civic. With a price difference as minimal as it is, just shut up and deal with it. Thats the cost of having a nice car. You can't buy a TL and then bitch about a 3 dollar per tank difference. Seriously.
Whoo, end of rant.
Whoo, end of rant.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
In fact I believe Civic maintains its value better than our TL.
#70
Instructor
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#71
-Arsenic-
Originally Posted by red00tl
A Civic isn't necessarily cheaper than a 2G TL these days. ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
In fact I believe Civic maintains its value better than our TL.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
In fact I believe Civic maintains its value better than our TL.
#72
Instructor
^ Ah well, I was just joking. ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Besides, Civic SI I'm sure requires Premium due to its higher compression ratio.
But I agree with you that it's not worth the trouble pumping 89.
The saving, if at all, is minimal when everything has been factored in.
I'd rather fill up with Premium and forget about it.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Besides, Civic SI I'm sure requires Premium due to its higher compression ratio.
But I agree with you that it's not worth the trouble pumping 89.
The saving, if at all, is minimal when everything has been factored in.
I'd rather fill up with Premium and forget about it.
#74
Senior Moderator
Ive gotten in the 500s but you wont get 35-36 mpg at those speeds.
#75
Suzuka Master
Only once have I pumped 89 in the TL and it ran considerably weaker afterwards. I usually go with 93, since barely anyone around here sells 91 for some reason. Only one station I know of sells it.
#76
COTM Coordinator
WOW.... I cant believe this thread is still open.
If you wanna put 89 then do it. you heard what every one has to say and it goes both ways. Decide for yourself. be cheap and put 89 in.
Like I said in my first post on this thread.
Its like feeding your dogs shit instead of Purina...... they will eat it but they arent gonna like you for very long.
DO what you want.
If you wanna put 89 then do it. you heard what every one has to say and it goes both ways. Decide for yourself. be cheap and put 89 in.
Like I said in my first post on this thread.
Its like feeding your dogs shit instead of Purina...... they will eat it but they arent gonna like you for very long.
DO what you want.
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