AlanW

Going to do the 3x3 transmission fluid change. (with Z1). What is the most acurate info we have on on how long to do the 2 drives between between the changes/refills.

Search info says "about 5 minutes and go through all the gears several times."
I know the fluid in a auto trans flows through the transmission in linear fashion, as opposed to all just mixing together right away. The idea being to add the 3 new qts and cycle in OLD fluid for the next drain.

5 minutes seems like too long of a drive, that it would go past exchanging old fluid for new into a general mixing of old & new??? What do you guys think?

Seems like somewhere on here I read info from Acura (I guess) on running the vehicle raised on a rack with the wheels off the ground-it told you how long to run in each gear at how many rpms, etc....

I would worry a lot about running the drivetrain unloaded with the wheels dangling down-seems like that put much stress in the axles, CV joints, axles seals, etc.

Thoughts???

ANC297

iTrader: (2)

5 mins is what I and I believe most others are gonna tell you. Do not do it with the wheels off the ground, not the smartest idea.

01tl4tl

the `rack method` is for newer acuras with a different trans setup than ours

for us: acura only calls for the 3x3- IF - you added dex3 in an emergency
In that case- to fully remove contaminated fluid:
drain 3 qts add 3 new
drive 5 minutes using each gear including P R N slowly thru the neighborhood
More than 5 minutes makes it too hot to get under the car!!
a few sets of up and downshifts manually should do the work desired-
if you can do it in 2 minutes--awesome
repeat drain and refill sets to satisfaction

01tl4tl

in a normal `drain and refill` you do a 15 minute freeway drive first, to get crud loose and floating so it drains out easier

Twintt

can you do a 3x3 more than once or has to be a certain mileage? My tranny fluid is dirty and I'm wondering if I do a 3x3 would it mess up the tranny. thanks

01tl4tl

if its really dirty- chances of problems after a 3x3 are pretty high

try a 3 qt drain and refill to start--see how it reacts over a week or two before trying more fluid

note the proper honda fluid runs 8-10 bucks a qt,,so most dont do more changes than required!
this discussion will not address using Redline atf -which gen3 has lots of info on using it

01tl4tl

I wonder if seafoam trans stuff would help or hurt our problem--have to call Jim at their tech support on that one

Twintt

who is jim from tech support?

01tl4tl

Jim Davies= Seafoam corp website, phone tech support guru- always happy to help you!

Figure how many acura owners he talks to in a month- some may be using `Seafoams trans tune up` before a fluid change..might be the thing to fix our prob--or may contribute to hastening a weak trans trans demise..a phone call will reveal the answer

AlanW

I did the 3 X 3 fluid change last week end. It ends up actually using 10 qts, as mine will drain 3.33 qts when parked on level ground.

I did a quick drive lasting maybe 3 minutes between the changes, but I went through each gear at least twice. On each drain, the fluid looked darker & older than the new fluid, so I think it did a good job of draining almost all old fluid each time.

The method I usually use on changing transmission fluid is to use the "pump out" method.
This involves disconnecting a transmission fluid cooling line to the radiator, connecting a clear plastic drain tube into a bucket, and staring the engine and letting the transmission pump out fluid until you hear some bubbling and gurgling. Then you measure how much old fluid you pumped out and replace that amount with new fluid, and pumping out again, etc. The advantage of this is that you can see the color of the fluid you are pumping out and you can tell the exact moment the fluid goes from old to new by the color change. I don't know why I didn't use that method really.

01tl4tl

because you want your trans to keep shifting?

the drain and refill with short drive was done correctly

Seems like we have gotten used to everyone knowing 3 is really 3.3 if you are patient-
always buy 4 qts for a 3 qt drain~

AlanW

The pump out method won't hurt anything. Just be sure to turn the engine off as soon as you hear some gurgling. I've used it on a old Dodge 4-speed electronic shift transmissions that were as big or bigger problem than these Acura ones.

01tl4tl

you cant say it wont hurt anything unless a number of TL trans have survived for many thousands of miles after the service you describe
Try it on your own TL and let us know--thats all I ask--we have a lot of noobs who will run out and do their interpretation of the procedure and risk damage

I am more apt to go with I Hate Cars, a gen3 guru and his use of redline trans fluid
-which has tested well in gen3--using manual drain and refill
those guys had to find something as a diy fix--they only got a 50kmile warranty and too bad sucker!

these trans are touchy--even having plate under the filler hole to prevent a suction hose from being inserted for a machine driven flush!!

if acura wanted you to do a hose drain it would be in the shop book--which calls for the same gravity method as owner book

yes the gen4 has a new procedure, and other acura models with totally different trans than us,
It allows for changing fluid on the rack with engine running-shifting etc-
its really so the techs can make the most money in the least time and acura can bill in a most profitable way~

sidenote:
You should do the ps fluid in a similar manner to yours, using the return line to empty into a jug -turning wheels back and forth until it pumps dry
(tip: put cardboard under front wheels to reduce turning friction while doing this job)
refill- burp-add more-,drain turning wheels- refill-burp- done

01tl4tl

a main concern to me is people not familiar with working on cars and listening for different sounds = will allow the trans to run without fluid--
gurgling away until it stops making any noise at all~

considering some of the post you can read on here--...`cant find ATF drain plug` even though it has ATF stamped right above it....same with filler,,
`there is some strange thing in my filler hole so I used the dipstick tube` (recall installed 2nd gear external oil jet kit)

AlanW

Yeah, the procedure is not for an inexperienced person or even the faint-hearted, and I'm not recomending for most or trying to talk anyone into doing it.

And as with most things, NOT Fing up is an important part of it.

However, FYI, it has worked fine for me and many others on several different type trannys. It uses the natural direction of the flow through the transmisson, doesn't suck anything out, no reverse flow, and you can tell exactly when the old fluid is cycled out with almost no mixing with the new. The vehicle is idling, not moving, and there is no load or real action going on in the tranny.

My 02 TLS tranny was replaced (before I had it) at an Acura dealer in Dec 2005 and doesn't have the oil jet device on the fill hole. It works fine and shifts wonderfully so far, so I'm only gonna use the recomended Z1 fluid in it and keep doing the 10 qts change once a year and keep my fingers crossed.

totaledTL

01tl4tl
AlanW- this method, right? (post #24) https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/what-hose-atf-785249/

Looks like a better way imo. fsttyms1 endorsed it- (at that time).

AlanW

[QUOTE=totaledTL;12545824]01tl4tl


AlanW- this method, right? (post #24) https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785249

Basically, yes it is. opening up a tranny fluid cooling line to the radiator and letting the tranny pump the fluid.

Now, most trannys are going to have a traditional pan & filter, which in most cases you would want to drop the pan, change the filter, replace pan and refill fluid to the proper level.

Then figure out which coolant line to open, it really doesn't matter if the fluid comes out of the cooling line into a bucket or you can attach the hose to the fitting on the radiator-the fluid flows in one direction, so whichever line you open, the fluid is going to come out either the open line or fitting the line attaches to. If I don't know which way the fluid is going to go, I put an old towel around the open line and just start the engine for the shortest time you can and turn right back off-it will be apparent where the fluid came from without making too big of a mess.

In the video, he pulls the drain plug and drains what comes out & replaces that fluid first before he goes to the pumping. That part, IMHO, is not really needed, it just gives you less old fluid you need to pump out. I think it just wastes some time really, cause the tranny pumps the fluid out pretty fast.

And I don't see why he blows out the radiator part with compressed air, I don't think that is really needed either as it is all going to circulate through anyway.

The thing he is doing different from the method I learned is the continual pumping while adding new fluid. That part is kind of scary to me as the tranny pumps the fluid out pretty damn fast, I would worry about keeping up adding the new fluid. I do it in stages-start the engine and let it pump until you start hearing bubbling/gurgling noise-turn it off RIGHT AWAY when you first hear it and you will not hurt anything. It will actually bubble and gurgle for awhile before it gets dry enough to hurt anything. You will have to do 2 or 3 pumps & refills before you see fresh fluid.

I always measure how much fluid it pumps out each time and add that exact amount of new fluid. That method is a little slower but surer, but what he does I sure works also. It helps to have two people-somebody in the car you can yell at to turn the key off really fast if something starts going wrong.

Sorry this is so long, I just don't want anyone to hurt their tranny on half-assed explained advice. And all that being said, the 3 X 3 method works well and is very easy also, probably just allows a little more mixing of the old & new fluids.
This method works very well on other type trannys that don't have the easy to get to drain plug and may be better suited for other trannys than these Acura ones.

nutnut

You get to see the condition of the magnetic plug this way tho

01tl4tl

your `post 2005` trans has the external jet kit moved inside --that was part of the new case design along with better oil passages to certain areas