fiveoh-tl

Hi all. I had an '07 TL-S which I sold and picked up an '06 RL last year. I haven't posted in this section before.

It has come time for new tires (45k miles) and I nearly had a heart attack when I heard that the only place I can go for these PAX tires is back to Acura and that they're raping me for $2k in the process. This is ridiculous.....I wish I would've known when I bought it pre-owned.

What have you guys/gals in the same bought done? Should I stick w/ the PAX tires and spend $2k every 2yrs or should I go aftermarket? Is there an aleternative? If yes, what make/model and size of rim and tires are people using?

Thank you for your help.

Chas2

There is plenty of traffic on this topic. Do a search to get the details.

Some have chosen to pay for replacement PAX tires, other have chosen to de-PAX, understanding the liabilities this incurs on the software side, and the need to purchase a spare (which Acura was partly subsidizing for PAX cars anyway, through January 2010, via the class action suit associated with PAX tires.

$2K sounds about right for replacement tires, whether through Acura or an independent, PAX certified (this key) Michelin dealer.

How have you found the PAX tires otherwise, aside from the costs? Your decision will hinge on several different factors.

fiveoh-tl

Thanks for your quick response. I did a quick search and was just looking for more I guess.

The PAX tires have been fine for the most part. I've got 45k on it and I drive aggressively so they've held up well.....especially since I am partly to blame as I havent kept up on rotating them. I've been through other tires of lesser quality in 35k w/ rotating every 7500-10k.

Chas2

Some questions to answer.

How long will you keep the car?
Do you want better tires than what the Pilot HX MXM4 offers?
Who besides you will be driving the car?
Do you want to buy a spare?

Some questions to answer.

How long will you keep the car?
If you are going to keep the car for two years or less, you may just want to spend $2K to get the PAX assuming you are happy with the current tires. It will cost you about $2K to get some decent wheels and good quality rubber, but then the incremental cost afterwards will be less when you change out your next set of tires.

Do you want better tires than what the Pilot HX MXM4 offers?
Many people want different or upgraded performance from what the PAX Pilot Sport HX MXM 4 offer. You have no choices in PAX other than the X-Ice snow tires.

Who besides you will be driving the car?
If you get a low pressure or flat tire reading, the TPMS system assumes you have PAX tires on. The software starts counting down telling you that you have 125 miles at 50 mph max before the PAX tire may become unrepairable. The problem is that this software cannot be easily reflashed, Acura says it cannot be period. So if someone other than you is driving the car, and does not remember or does not know that your car is using conventional wheels and tires, the software advice could be deadly--this is the liability issue that Honda wants no part of.

Do you want to buy a spare?
You will certainly have to buy a spare, even if you never use it, for conventional wheels and tires. Get a spare from a junkyard if you have to, it will cost over $500-600 to get it new.

You do not necessarily need a spare with PAX tires, but you can argue otherwise. In reality, service is hard to find for the PAX tires, despite what Michelin says. I live in the Washington DC area, and if I were to have to replace a tire, it would take one business day just for the PAX certifed dealer to get the tires (you must replace in pairs) overnighted from the Michelin distribution point. Even if it were just a repair, I would have to drive over the river and through the hills to get the tire repaired at a certified PAX dealer. However, depending on how hungry your Honda dealer, they may also be willing to service the Acura PAX tire because they are required to have the equipment and people available to handle all those Odyssey PAX tires. I have two Honda dealers less than 10 miles away, and they would be my first choice for repair, though not necessarily replacement, services.

If you chose to de-PAX and accept the potential liability, you then go on the search for new wheels and tires, and there is plenty of info on what to do and what not to do. You can get some good quality 18 inch Enkei wheels for about $200 or so and your choice of 245/45-18 rubber. This package would be equivalent to the PAX 245-680R460A size you are currently using.

Good luck.

gcook

Honda may discourage you from depaxing, but as part of the class action they must support your warranty...

I have 45k miles and rotated frequently, more than recommended and mine are wearing all 4 on the first level on the inside.. not sure why.. they say my car may be out of balance.. the rest of the tire is good except this first level on the inside on all 4... I am going to keep them for a while cuz the tread looks good to me.

Personally I would never ever recommned pax to anyone.. period.. from the cost to the issue with nails and repairs, it is a complete ridiculous mess...

bf024

One thing I found interesting is that Acura would sell me the rim and all the parts, but not the actual tire. Not sure if others have run into this, but I wasn't sure what favor they thought they were doing me for $500. Still searching for a used one, tried national junkyard alerts, etc., haven't come up with anything yet...

psheu

that's how they get you.... those rims are useless without the pax rubber wrapping around them..... they are Asymetrical.... no one in their right mind would make tires like that my advice, get a-spec rims + Michelin Pilot Sports and still come out cheaper than replacing those rubbers

bf024

Actually, I was talking about the spare... my dealer depaxed me when I bought, so I have no complaints there. I made the mistake of not insisting on the spare because I figured they'd done enough and I'd find one used. If I knew how tough it would be to find one I'd have asked them for it as well.

deepdezal

Will a spare tire kit from Honda Odyssey work for our cars?

Chas2

The Acura RL spare is a T155/70D17 tire mounted on a 17x4-inch 12-spoke aluminum wheel.
The Honda Ody spare is T135/80D17

You would have to check the Ody spare wheel for usual front caliper clearance issue. Even if it did fit, since the bolt circle and hub are the same, the tire size difference would indicate different circumference and load differential. We know that you must be careful to match the circumference to the stock tires because of the all wheel drive. In short, Ody spare tire probably won't work for a variety of reasons. That is my

Chas2

Yes, that is correct. You get into an endless loop. Acura says they will not sell you the temp spare tire. Go to a local tire shop, and they tell you they do not sell the temp tire, that you must go to the manufacturer.

I was fortunately able to purchase my spare tire through the Tire Rack. Not cheap either...

bf024

Thanks Chas, I contacted Tire Rack. Not much help, which I found unusual. I asked for some info on DePaxing and got some lawyerspeak back in a brief message, then contacted them about a spare and was told they don't do spares.

When my dealer depaxed me I got the 18" wheels off an 09 RL, so I'll need an 18" spare... but if you wouldn't mind posting the part numbers you ordered from them, maybe I can use that as a way to get them to help me out.

I could kick myself for not making Pohanka throw in the spare...

Chas2

Here is a paste from the invoice, no part number. Sorry about the column spacing.

Qty Size and Description Availability Price Each Total Price
1 T155/70R-17 Goodyear Convenience Spare In Stock $161.00 $161.00
1 GY/DU Registration Card In Stock N/C N/C

And long ago, some good Acurazine soul posted the parts you would need in total for the spare

* Trunk Spacer Assembly (Part number: 84542-SJA-A00)
* Adapter - Spare Tire (74651-S2x-003)
* Bolt - Spare Tire (74652-SDA-003
* Label - Spare Tire Adapter - Not really needed but cheap (74653-SJA-003)
* Nut - Wheel (90304-SHJ-A91) - Need 20 of them or 16 and a set of wheel locks
* Disk Aluminum Wheel (this is the spare) - 17x4T (42700-SJA-J51)
* Valve - Rim (42753-SBB-661) - Need 4 unless you car reuse the valve stems from the PAX wheels. I don't know but at less than $1.00 each, might as well get new ones.
* You will also need TPM sensors if you can't or don't reuse the ones in the PAX assembly.
*Spare Tire T155/70D17

Chas2

Yea, when you speak to Tire Rack, it is NOT about de-PAXing. They shut down immediately.

Remember, after you changed your flat tire to the spare, a couple more miles down the road, you got another nail in your spare, through the sidewall and the spare has to be replaced. Unbelievable bad luck!

fiveoh-tl

Goodbye PAX....my PAX nightmare is officially over.

I went with the 18" Elbrus 102s wrapped in Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS. These wheels/tires are soooo much lighter then the PAX wheel/tire combo. They look great, and ride nice and smooth compared w/ the PAX POS's. [IMG][/IMG]

Chas2

Looking good.

fiveoh-tl

Thanks! They really fill up the wheel wells nicely too.

sab35263

Are you getting any alarms from the de-pax?

Chas2

If he has TPMS in the new wheels, no alarms will occur. The only issue will be in a low pressure situation. MID will say you 125 miles to go and count down to 0, which could be hazardous to your health with non-PAX tires.

fiveoh-tl

Got TPMS in the new wheels and I have no lights or codes....which I'm very happy about cause I heard I may even with them.

hwajr

i de-paxed with RL stock 17" wheel take-offs. no issues with everything appearing to be normal. is the stock 17" wheel smaller than pax rim and if so, are the speedo and odo reading faster and more miles than actual?

thanks for any clarifications.

Chas2

17" rim is smaller diameter, narrower width and lighter than the PAX rim, which is about 460mm, about 18.1 inches. The rolling tire diameter remains the same because the 245-50/17 tire size is equivalent in diameter to the PAX 245-680R460A which is also the equivalent rolling diameter to standard wheel tire combos of 245/45-18.

You should have noticed a huge difference in the wheel weight, losing easily 50 lbs in unsprung weight, and the attendant performance differences. You probably will find the ride a little more choppy. I think the PAX tires were far more comfortable than the 17's. The rear suspension in PAX cars is tuned differently, for the heavier wheels and tires.

I would be interested if you can detect and describe any differences with the 17's on.

fiveoh-tl

Going from the PAX setup to 18" aftermarket wheels/tires I noticed a weight difference......those wheels and runflats were HEAVY.

hwajr

Chas2.......the pax tires were heavy but solid. much better than the stock "touring" tires that many "luxury" cars come with today. i much prefer a sportier tire than a touring tire and went with the michelin pilot sport A/S plus in the stock size. love the tires with much better response, turn-in, no squirm, stiff sidewall, quiet etc. all this in an all season tire. i see no difference in rim size other than appearance. in fact, anything above 17" can lead to a harsh ride with no improvement in handling.

hope this helps.

gcook

What did you guys do about the spare? I went with 18" but I need a donut for my trunk...

hwajr

i bought an OEM donut from Honda for about 500 bucks. added pain to the insult.

gcook

my new tpms sensors picked up my tire pressure automatically. One took about 5 minutes.. They set my tires to ~40 PSI. Not sure why.. 245/45R18 XL Yokohama S.drive

Chas2

You will have to play around with the tire pressures. I think I am currently at 36/34 for 255/40-19. Yoko Advan S4 (snow country, although with the next 5 days forecast at 100 or more, I am not sure I believe that....)

Take the rears to 38, and then go down in front and rear in 2 l increments. You will soon find an area where they are too soft, and you will pump them back up. I would not go below 32/30.

rtr

pax is a bunch of BS! buy what you like.