ltdrl

I have a 2006 RL with 44,000 miles and it needs new tires. The no-flat Michelin Pax tires cost $2,000. Conventional tires cost half that, but I'd need to get new rims, sensors, valves, etc., so the conversion would cost me around $2,200 the first time. The savings would be in future replacements. Would converting affect performance and handling? The tire store actually said it might improve gas mileage marginally. What is the experience of other RL owners? Thanks.

baboya96

I was in same boat approx 2 months ago. 2006 RL w/ Tech package. I decided to go with new set of rims option because I knew I was going to keep this car for a long time and knew saving would come in future. Plus after learning how heavy standard PAX rims weighs... I wanted to lose it asap. Shopped around and finally landed on a fantastic deal for new 19" Legends. Between rims, sensors, lug nuts and tires (DWS continental)... my total bill came around $1900-$2000. I'm loving the look and do not see any effect in performance. If anything, it seems much better. Car is def lighter and tires seem to stick better than stock michellin IMO.

Chas2

Your handling will dramatically improve because you will lose a lot of unsprung weight, especially if you chose your wheels carefully for weight. The car will seem to accelerate, brake and change direction more quickly. I think you will greatly appreciate it, but as with many performance improvements, over time you will get used to it. Just like a faster PC, you take the system speed for granted after awhile.

I have found gas mileage suffers, especially if choose high performance rubber. The PAX tires are actually very good at achieving good gas mileage.

There are other concerns you should at least be aware of...the software cannot be changed, so make sure all drivers know not to follow the MID directions in a low pressure situation...you may never need it, but if you have no spare...there is that chance you get a flat and get stranded.

ltdrl

Thanks for the advice. What rims and tires would you recommend to maximize handling and gas mileage? Would a donut type spare not work for emergency situations?

Chas2

So that is a loaded question! You need to decide for yourself on style, and there are plenty.

1. Suggest you look at tires first...245/50-17, 245/45-18, 245/40-19, 245/35-20...see what best meets your needs. I think you will quickly find that the choices are quite limited in 17, less so in 19, and 20, with lots of choices in 18. Lots of choices also means that you are more likely to have a lot of choices in price points and performance types, as opposed to a serious bias towards max performance handling summer only tires. There are an increasing number of low rolling resistance tires, which will yield better gas mileage, but at the expense of cornering grip, and perhaps other performance parameters...for example, a high performance tire will tend to stop the car in a shorter distance because of its bias toward high grip, but that is diametrically opposed to the goal of low rolling resistance and high efficiency for best gas mileage.
2. Try to keep the weight of each wheel at less than 25lbs....the smaller the diameter the lighter the wheel. The narrower the width, the lighter the wheel. You want to stick to 8 inch widths for the most part, and you will probably again find the best compromise in weight size to be in the 18 inch category.
3. It is all a matter of personal choice, and budget, and the decision will be based on a series of compromises in priorities, priorities that only you can set.
4. Search around in this forum, there is lots written on this topic
5.WRT to the donut spare, which is all you can use in this car, search the forum. Your best bet is to get a RL spare from the junkyard. Pay particular attention to keep the spare tire diameter exactly the same as your primary tires. This is an all wheel drive system, and the mechanicals and computers are designed to work around a specific diameter of tire, hence the tire sizes above.

ltdrl

Thanks Chas2. The current tires are Michelin Pilot HXMXM4 245-680-R-460A-102V. To the best of my knowledge, they're the original tires and now have over 45,000 miles on them (I bought the car when it came out of a lease at around 30,000 miles).

I contacted Discount Tires and was quoted just under $2,000 for replacement with the same tire. The guy said that these tires typically get less than 35,000 miles, so I should feel lucky. He also stated that Discount Tire will not change them over to regular tires per an agreement with Michelin. He noted that the car is set-up for the PAX system, and that changing it would void whatever warranties are left on the car.

Apparently the existing tires are close to 18", but not exactly. Will an 18" wheel work if I do go with regular tires? Since resetting the computer does not appear to be an option, should it matter? What about the warranty issue? Thanks.

dwboston

The PAX tires on the RL get more than 35,000 miles. I swapped mine for a new set of PAX tires at 47,000 miles and they still had some tread left. The PAX tires on the Honda Odyssey were notorious for wearing out prematurely, but not the PAX tires on the RL.

baboya96

I was always told, you can't put standard non-pax tires on these pax rims as the center core would get in the way. Did you confirm that with discount tire? This is the only reason why I went with aftermarket rims to accommdate for standard tires.

Chas2

dwboston is correct on that. The PAX tires for the RL are pretty good tires, and it is entirely possible to get more than 45K miles on them. While they may have been unsuccessful on the Odyssey, I think they performed as advertised for the RL. The reason I did not keep the PAX was because I wanted the choice of higher performance rubber, and was willing to give up the run flat capability.

Chas2

Absolutely. Whatever fits on the non PAX RL will fit on the PAX RL, so 17, 18 19, 20 and more.

The PAX system iuses a unique wheel was measured in millimeters rather than inches that you are used to. The 460mm PAX wheel diameter used on the RL is equivalent to an 18 inch conventional wheel. The PAX system wheels are NOT interchangeable with conventional technology wheels.

Read this Wikipedia article about the PAX tires if you want understand a little more about them. It is reasonably accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micheli...uit_in_America

Megatron

Hi all... I'm in the same boat as the OP, but I guess I should be lucky that I am at 80K miles on my original PAX tires.

Anyways, I called Discount Tire as well and got a quote of $2300 to replace all 4 PAX tires!!!! UGH!

So I'm definitely DE-PAXing, but I am undecided on two wheel choices and was hoping you guys can give me your opinions. I want only factory Acura wheels, so I came down to either 1) 05-08 A-Spec 18" black chrome or 2) 2009 RL standard 18" wheels.

Option 1 costs around $1600 total for everything except tires
Option 2 costs around $2000 for everything except tires

I like a more factory standard look and not necessarily too sporty, so personally, I think I like the look of 2 better, but the $400 extra cost doesn't seem worth it.

What do you guys think?

dwboston

Get the A-Spec wheels. I had those exact wheels on my 05 RL and they looked awesome.

Megatron

My only concern with the A-Spec wheels was whether they looked too "ricey" like some kid punked out the car. If I took business clients to lunch, would the car look too unprofessional if I had the A-Spec wheels on? Do you know what I mean?

Also, is the black chrome very dark? Seems like it would looke like dirty wheels all the time (like silver wheels with brake dust all over them). Is that not the case?

Let me know what you think... Do you have them on your 06 now?? Or are you keeping the PAX on your 06?

Thanks for any info you can give...

dwboston

The black chrome A-Specs don't look dirty or unprofessional at all - they are really nice looking wheels. I don't have them anymore - I tried like heck to keep the A-Specs when I traded the car in. I don't mind the PAX tires at all, except for the price. They are effectively 18" tires and ride nicer than the stock Michelins on the 05-06 RL.

Megatron

Thanks for the input! What do you think of the 2009-2010 wheels? I don't understand why the stock wheels there are effectively $100 more a piece!

rtr

i think the A-Spec's triple chromed would look great if you have a set and want to make them look proper.

ltdrl

joe422,

Might be interested. Can we go to E-Mail (reply with your address)

Thanks,

Lou

Jackzilla

As a second alternative, I have a set of PAX tires and wheels (complete w/caps, TPMS and fully balanced) leftover from when I switched to a standard set of wheels. They have less than 17K miles on them - look virtually new - no curb rash or other damage. Would love to get them out of my garage - $600 plus shipping.
Jack

Megatron

I might be interested. What brand/type of tire is on those wheels? Also, how much do you want for shipping to Seattle?

Jackzilla

Michelin PAX tires that came on the RL. Shipping to Seattle would be whatever UPS charges per wheel assembly -- probably $40 -50 each.

Sunshine97

Hey Joe,
If Lou is not interested in purchasing your tires I am. Please put me in the queue for your tires. If Lou does not mind, we can email specifics.

ltdrl

I never got a reply, so go for it. Good luck.

ltdrl

What's the status? Still available?

Jackzilla

Have reconsidered. Plan now to re-install PAX system on car when I sell it. Sorry.

wildwayne

depax actually gain more mileage on my RL

importtuner

Hey guys, is there a market for the old wheels or are you guys just storing them?

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Water hose reels.

oo7spy

Craigslist. There are also some companies that refinish wheels that will buy your stockies from you, but likely for less than Craigslist.

Megatron

I'm still trying to get rid of mine. Problem is in addition to the rubber tire, there is all this nasty gel inside along with a plastic core around the wheel. UGH... Could probably get a few bucks at a metal recycler for the aluminum wheel, but then you'd have to get rid of the tire, gel, and plastic core first and that's a lot of dirty work. Anyone have any ideas?

oo7spy

Oh, wait. Market for the PAX wheels?

Ballinger

y'know, in a few months when the Mayan Zombie apocalypse comes, you'll be wishing you had those bulletproof PAX tires and wheels on there.

We'll be sitting there with our attractive, lightweight wheels with grippy, affordable, flat tires and you'll drive right by to get some gas from Bartertown.

oo7spy

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

hahahaha

Jack Mosca

Chaz2 - just purchased 07 RL - 20M miles, Pax system. Car will be driven 15M per year max. The tires look brand new - I have been driving on Michelin tires always purchased at Discount Tire and take advantage of their policy to rotate and spin balance anytime you like without charge. I religiously have them rotated and balanced every 3M miles. My last set of Michelin LTX MS had over 100M and looked new. That being said with that attention to detail do the Pax run flat tires actually have a chance to see 40M to 50M plus miles?

BDoggPrelude

It is going to vary a lot based on how you drive and where you drive. If you drive a lot of highway miles and tend to be easy on the car they may last that long. If you drive mostly in the city and thrash the hell out of the car they will not.

Michelin is still producing PAX tires for the time being. I'm pretty sure that, by law, they are required to have them available for ten years after the models carrying them were discontinued. (I believe this is a general law pertaining to vehicles and original equipment parts). The PAX RL was discontinued after the 2007 model year so that means they will have to produce enough to meet demand for about 4-5 more years. Considering the majority of the PAX vehicles produced have been, or will soon be de-PAXed, the demand for them will be so little it just won't be economically feasible for them to continue producing the PAX tires after they have met the 10 years after production rules.

Another thing to consider is that many of the dealerships and service shops are no longer servicing PAX tire systems. Again, with how little they actually see these vehicles it is just not economically feasible for them to continue to maintain the PAX specific equipment and train their technicians to work on them. Discount Tire in Colorado used to have 3 or 4 stores that had PAX machines and just a few years later there is only 1 store in the area equipped with a PAX machine. That machine is, for the most part, used primarily for dismounting PAX wheel and tire assemblies to recycle the tires and scrap the wheels.

The PAX system looks great on paper but it failed for a number of reasons:
-It is just too expensive for most consumers, especially the consumers that buy these vehicles in the second hand market. Who honestly buys a used Honda Odyssey and plans to spend $1500+ on tires every 18 months for it.
-The tires themselves failed to live up to expectations when it came to longevity. Michelin and Honda dealerships both estimated these tires would last 50-60k miles. The average Honda Odyssey goes through a set of PAX tires in about 20-25k. That's less than half the original estimation.
-No other tire companies jumped on the PAX bandwagon. Pirelli was originally planning on producing PAX tires as an alternative to Michelin but they scrapped the plans. Now consumers have 2 choices in PAX tires for their vehicles...Michelin all season tires and Michelin winter tires. People want to have options when it comes to buying tires for their vehicles.
-The PAX servicing network never panned out. Michelin envisioned PAX machines at every dealership and service shop in the world. Obviously, this never happened. The equipment and training necessary for PAX tire servicing is just far too costly for the average automotive shop. What happens if you get a flat tire going through the middle of Nebraska? It's great that you can drive on it for 125 miles and all but when the closest PAX servicing center is 500 miles away in Denver and your car does not have a spare you're kind of screwed.

Even with the prices that I get on tires and having access to PAX servicing equipment free of charge, I would not have considered putting new PAX tires on my car had the original owner not already taken them off. The entire thing is just too much of a headache. There are much simpler run-flat tire systems out there that offer 95% of what the PAX system does for a fraction of the effort.

Jack Mosca

BDoggPrelude - thank you for the advice. I want to depax - what brand name of wheel, size and tire are on your RL?

BDoggPrelude

I have 2 sets. 20x8.5 TSW Londrinas with 255/35R20 Continental Extreme Contact DW tires for summer and 17x7.5 Drag DR-34's with 235/55R17 Hankook W300 IceBear tires for winter. I'm keeping my eye out for a good set of used OEM 17" wheels to replace the winter wheels. I bought Drag wheels spur of the moment because they were cheap and I needed something to put winter tires on the car. I'm pretty well versed in wheels and tires so if you have any fitment questions please feel free to ask. I highly recommend TSW as a good starting point. Great quality, decently lightweight for cast wheels, lots of styles to choose from, reasonable priced and most will clear the front brake calipers without any issues. Keep an eye out on eBay for a spare too. I just picked one up for $180 shipped.

Jack Mosca

BDoggPrelude - I am going to depax - will only use OEM RL wheels and will stay at 18. I am under the opinion that any OEM RL wheel will fit my 07? Thanks Jack

BDoggPrelude

Yes, any 05+ RL wheels will fit. If you want 18" wheels you have 3 options: 2009-2010, 2011-2012 and the optional A-Spec wheels. I do have a set of 18" A-Specs in the dark chrome color for sale BTW.

Jack Mosca

BDogg - not interested in dark chrome - what size in inches are the Pax tires? Thank you