Shawnee Acura

My dealer just quoted me $1900 for putting on new Pax tires on my 06 RL. I have 58000 miles on my existing ones. At that price range, I begin to consider whether it is better over the long run to just buy new wheels and tires or re-Pax. My salesman suggested that I not re-Pax.

Thoughts and prices and what have you done?

dwboston

I just paid $1800 for new PAX tires on my 06 RL. If you intend to keep the car long-term, it may make sense to de-PAX. You will need new wheels, tires, TPMS sensors, lugnuts, and a spare tire kit and jack, which will all likely run you $2500 or so. Most of those are one-time costs, so next time around when it comes to change tires you're looking at $800-$1200 depending on what tires you opt for. So basically 2 complete PAX tire changes are roughly the same cost as de-PAXing then changing tires again. After that de-PAXing is cheaper.

So, do you intend to keep the car for 3 more full sets of tires? There is also the issue of the low tire pressure display in the PAX-equipped cars. When a PAX tire loses pressue, you get a warning in the MID with a mileage countdown indicating that it's safe to drive for x more miles on the PAX tire. That could be really dangerous for a de-PAXed car if the driver is not aware of the situation. Acura can't/won't re-program the PAX cars to change the warning.

Outside of the cost, I don't mind the PAX tires at all. They are effectively 18" tires and perform better than the stock Michelins. And don't go through the dealer, find a Town Fair Tire or another local tire dealer with PAX equipment and go directly there. The Acura dealer will likely charge a mark-up if you go through them.

Chas2

Plenty of info on this. Use this google and this search expression.

site://rl.acurazine.com de PAX

This will work with just about anything on this site if you vary the search term, in this case "de PAX"

For what it is, I think the PAX system works well. It is a good run flat tire, more comfortable than the typical ZP runflats. The car works well and if you have no quibbles with the only available non winter tire, the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, keeping the PAX tires will not really cost you any more than changing them out. The lack of universal service for PAX tires is a real problem, but only if you get a flat and you do not live in a major metro area.

I chose not to re PAX because I was interested in different rubber, AND I intend to keep the car a long time... The cost of new wheels, tires, and a spare setup is just as costly if not more costly than replacing the PAX. Any savings come on your next set of standard tires. And de-PAXing takes some planning, more than if you just go and re-PAX

So search around and see what others have done. If you have questions that have not been previously answered, there are several people that can help you, including the excellent answer above from dwboston.

Shawnee Acura

So, then the question is availability. Are these still being made? What happens in 2 years? I am worried that if there are no tires in 2 years, i"ll have to de-pax. Does anyone know what the availability is?

Chas2

Availability depends on where you live. Large metro areas, it should not be a big deal, but you can almost be certain that they will have to order the tires from a distribution center. Here in Washington DC, we are talking a 1 business day wait...depending on when you make the order...they get it overnight shipment.

Michelin will support these tires for the forseeable future. You can still get the Michelin TRX tires...remember those?

Michelin's official statement is that they have stopped further development (new tires and applications), but will continue to support the tires.

Look on the Michelin site for local PAX dealers, and call them up for estimates.

Also look at the Wikipedia for Michelin PAX System, which is reasonably accurate, for general information.

Shawnee Acura

Did you have to make any modifications to the trunk for the spare or did you just put it in there? I presume you didn't go to the acura dealer ship to get the new wheels and tires on, right? I assume if I am just getting new wheels and tires, I can get them anywhere. I've checked the forums but can't determine whether or not having Pax or not impacts the resale value. I am keeping mine for another two to three years.

Chas2

This list has been circulating for a long time. Your PAX car currently has a large styrofoam insert that holds the tools and gives you some storage compartments. You remove that and replace it with the following set of parts:

The whole set may be available from your dealer at a reduced price of $550 as part of a class action law suit judgement, or you have to get this stuff through internet parts departments and a junkyard. The wheel and tire alone retails for over $500, the rest of the stuff is probably $50-$75, which is why you should try a junkyard to get the wheel and tire combo for hopefully under $200.

* Trunk Spacer Assembly (Part number: 84542-SJA-A00) Styrofoam insert for the tools
* Adapter - Spare Tire (74651-S2x-003) This is the disc that holds the spare tire tight against the spare tire well floor using the bolt below
* Bolt - Spare Tire (74652-SDA-003) This is the long bolt, that acts as the tie between the spare tire well floor and the above disc
* Label - Spare Tire Adapter - Not really needed but cheap (74653-SJA-003)
* Nut - Wheel (90304-SHJ-A91) - Need 20 of them or 16 and a set of wheel locks If you use OEM wheels, you need 20 or 16 plus wheel locks; if you use after market wheels, you still need 5 of these to use with the spare-read up on various lug nut seats to understand why
* Disk Aluminum Wheel (this is the spare) - 17x4T (42700-SJA-J51) This is the compact spare aluminum wheel, a beautiful 17x4 wheel painted bright yellow
* Valve - Rim (42753-SBB-661) - Need 4 unless you car reuse the valve stems from the PAX wheels. I don't know but at less than $1.00 each, might as well get new ones.
* You will also need TPM sensors if you can't or don't reuse the ones in the PAX assembly.
*Spare Tire T155/70D17 This can be difficult to get, most tire shops do not stock them and will not order them. Most dealers tell you to go to a tire shop - Catch 22 - this is why the junkyard will likely be your best bet.

Shawnee Acura

I presume all this work is why people just re-Pax. I have an e-mail into my dealership to see what they will do.

Chas2

Kind of depends on what you are interested in. I have always upgraded car's performance with a simple change in rubber, although sometimes that also entailed a change in wheels.

To me, I wanted higher performance (knowing that it is not as long lasting) rubber. PAX would not allow me that choice.

I received one other real benefit from de PAXing. The performance increase from losing 92 lbs of unsprung weight was immediately apparent, even to those sitting in the passenger seat. The car is definitely lighter on its feet, and much more responsive to throttle inputs. Those PAX tires are so heavy, almost 75 lbs each.

Looking at wheels and tires may not be your cup of tea, but to me, it was quite enjoyable...and I learned a lot.

Shawnee Acura

It just seems a little overwhelming. I'd like to keep this car for a while and I think I am leaning toward de-paxing even if it costs more. Did you do your change with the dealership or with someone else? I am sending out e-mails to four nearby dealerships to see what kind of quotes am going to get. I wonder if it makes sense to file a claim with the lawfirm handling the settlement as well. By the way, I noticed on person on e-bay who is selling his pax tires and wheels (all four) for $300. Didn't see any buyers. I don't see a market for PAX tires with 52k miles on them. By the way, would 18 inch wheels work or only 17s. If I am going to dePax, I will have to pick some wheels and have no idea how big I can go. Did you stick with Michellins?

Chas2

I went whole hog, for me anyway, and got 19x8.5" forged wheels made for the car, using Yokohama Advan S4 tires, but I may go with Michelin Pilot Sport AS Plus next time.

To make your process simple, I would stick with the tried and true formula, 18 inch wheels with 245/45-18 tires...and do not cheap out on the tires if you can help it. You do not have to get Michelins, which are pricey, but neither should you get inexpensive, no name tires.

I think 18 inch wheels are the most flexible size. Stay away from 17's because in the RL size, 245/50-17 is a sort of unusual size and you have a limited choice in rubber. Besides, your PAX tires are equivalent to 18's. There are many more choices of 245/45-18 tires available than there are tires in the stock 17 size or the 19 inch size (245/40-19) that I have. Pricing is better too.

Similarly, there are many more choices of 18 inch wheels available. Your width can be 8, 8.5 or 9.0 inches. The least expensive quality wheel, and the lightest also, will tend to be an 18x8. You can get Acura wheels or you can get them aftermarket.

You must be careful to only use wheels that are known to fit on an RL. The RL has very nice front brakes, aluminum 4 piston calipers, lightweight and powerful, but also very large. These calipers are large enough that many wheels will not fit because they rub the back of the wheel spokes. For example, all 4th generation TL wheels will rub.

Take a look at the Tire Rack, dial in a 2006 - 2008 standard RL, do not say that you have PAX, or Technology Package II. Take a look at your choices. See if any designs strike you. Look at pictures on this site of what others have done. Once you kind of narrow in on a few styles, many here can help you with specifics.

The Tire Rack is not the be all end all source, but they are reliable, reputable, and have a very good web site, as well as being a sponsor for the site. They are an excellent place to start, and many never go beyond the Tire Rack.

Jack Mosca

dwboston - how many miles did you have on your pax tires before replacing them for $1800.00? My pax ride excessively harsh - what tire pressure do you run? Thanks Jack

Jack Mosca

Air pressure and PAx! Need some help here please....07 Pax 20K on tires. Just had 4 wheel alignment and tires rotated and spin balancedd - the car rides like a rock in my opinion. I read where those of you with PAX suggest the ride is smoother that the non Pax tires - also which is more accurate the tire pressure shown on the screen in the car or my tire gauge? Help...

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

what does the side wall say?

and do the .psi readings match? What gauge are you using? How far off are they?

lland

I'm running 32 front and 34 rear (cold) for my PAX. Never noticed an issue with the ride. Whenever I check the TPMS against a pressure gauge (PSIClops), its always spot on.

LL

sab35263

I'm thinking of de paxing to 17 inch OEM wheels and tires. I know i need new lug nuts to fit. I'm just doing this because of the cost. I found a set of tires and rims for $600. What do you guys think... Please let me know.

Thanks

Jack Mosca

lland - how many mile do you have on pax tires?

Jack Mosca

sab35263 - how many mile on your pax tires/do you want to sell them?

sab35263

I'm thinking of de-paxing and will see how that goes. i have a lot of miles on mine.

baboya96

i have a set of original PAX off my 06 RL that you can purchase if interested. PM me.

Jack Mosca

How many miles are alot of miles on your Pax system? Too many conflicting #s on this site as to what to expect from a set - Honday Odyessy 20 - 25M? RL's reportedly going 60 - 80M miles....what is the legit # of miles I can expect on my RL?

oo7spy

25 Million miles is a lot of miles!!!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

LoL M vs MM...

oo7spy

Same thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million Check teh "Abbreviation" on the right...

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I LawLed and you went all teacher...

sab35263

Where can I buy lug-nuts if I de-PAX? should I go to the dealer or go to a parts store?

ichi d

try one of our vendors for oem lugs and best prices.

stchas

I got ~54k out of my PAX tires on my 2006 RL. Now de-PAXed.

Jack Mosca

M is a symbol for 1000

oo7spy

If you are Roman.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Jack Mosca

Heavy - he looks like the happy Roman - glad he ate her

dwboston

I never saw these posts. I run 35 PSI all around on all four tires - I like a little firmer ride than the 32/20 owner's manual recommendation. I changed the original PAX tires out at 48,000 miles and now have 48,000 miles on this set, with plenty of tread left.

Jack Mosca

dwboston - thanks for the information - what does that wood steering wheel cost and price of installation?

oo7spy

$420 is typical of the oem sites. I installed mine myself. Bob wrote a DIY that is very thorough and makes it easy. It should not be more than a 1 hr job.

dwboston

I bought the wood steering wheel years ago. I think I paid $275 at the time plus another $100 or so for installation. The wood steering wheels got more expensive after that. Check eBay or one of the Acura dealers that sells online.

oo7spy

That was a great deal.

burbank_dude

The best local quote I got on getting new pax tires was 2050 installed. I had 50k miles on the original pax tires but towards the end performance dwindled especially noticeable while braking. I bought some Elbrus wheels and tire package from Tirerack for 1500 (with sensors). For legal reasons if you state that you have the tech package they won't list any replacements so just select that you don't have the tech package. I ended up going with a bridgestone runflat tires because I didn't want to deal with the doughnut and retrofitting the trunk for the spare. Anyhow the Bridgestone runflats are a very rough ride compared to the Michelins. I did notice a performance improvement with the new wheels tires though. I am glad I did it although I may be looking for a doughnut and trunk kit in the future.

Thanks Chas for all the great work you did on this topic !

Jack Mosca

burbank_dude - I live in S Cal and looking for 1 pax wheel. Jack

ichi d

sorry but i dont think anyone would sell just 1 wheel and be stuck with 3.