I-003: DIY Base RL to NAV RL conversion
 

At the outset let me just state that I bought my brand new '07 this month without the NAV because I got a very good price for the car ($3,500 below invoice) and in the PWP color that I really wanted and I could not locate a 2007 NAV version of the car within several hundred miles of my home. (parenthetically I felt it wise to state this dislcaimer at the begining of this thread because in the over 5+ years I've been coming to this site, there always seems to be a few people on this forum that get edgy and annoyed when someone mods their car to add a feature available on a premium version of the same car. I noted this effect, for example, in both the 2nd Gen and the 3rd GEN TL forums when someone added NAV to their non-NAV TL). In my case I got the car at a good price, I have the skills to do the mod (15+ years in car audio, before moving on to another career) and hope to do it for considerably less than the $3500-$4000 price differential between the nonNAV RL and Tech RL (I know the Tech also gives real wood rather than plood and those swiveling headlights, but candidly if given the choice I wouldnt have wanted to pay more for those options had a Tech RL been available and assuming those options were available on an ala-carte basis (which I know they're not).

In any event, I am going to do a NAV conversion and I'm off to a good start. I located an entire NAV system from an '07 that included not only the DVD unit, the head unit, the screen and the antenna, but it also included the ENTIRE wiring harness for the system. I think the car it came from might have been totalled (maybe fell off the car carrier?) before it even made it to the dealership because the plastic protective covering was still on the DVD video screen. I paid just $1200 for everything.

There was some discussion recently about whether the non-NAV RL was easily capable of becoming a NAV by just inserting the NAV DVD into the player, which just happens to come preinstalled in the trunk of the nonNAV RL. Someone went to the dealer and borrowed the NAV disc to try it but with no luck. I was somewhat skeptical that it would be this easy (but was hoping it woud be!) As for myself, I remained undecided whether the only distinction between the NAV and nonNAV system lies within the DVD player.

True, the nonNAV headunit has the same switch on it as the NAV version, just that its marked "compass" rather than "Map/Guide". Still, I think there might be additional circuitry within the NAV head unit that is lacking in the nonNAV. The argument against this of course is that the RL was designed to be sold "loaded", with all U.S.A. first model year 2005 RLs coming standard with NAV. The nonNAV version was developed later, as an after-thought for the cars sold in HI and AK that are too far west of the satellite to recieve the NAV signal. Thus a 'detuned' RL was born. It would seem to make sense that Acura would NOT spend additional money going back to the drawing board and designing a nonNAV car snce the car was to sell for less than the NAV version (and thus where was the profit incentive for the xtra R&D time and expense?)

Nevertheless, I took my DVD player out of the car last night to inspect it. Immediately I noticed there were two unused wiring plugs on the back of it, with no corresponding wires to plug into it at the car's wiring harness. I became excited and though perhaps the DVD player was in fact the same, and the secret to getting NAV out of it would be to read the wiring diagram in the shop manual to see where the extra wires would go to, and then to create the missing harness. Then I opened up the unit and noticed a large blank space on the left side of the main circuit board. While I did not have a DVD nav player to compare it against, its probable that there is circuitry absent from the nonNAV player (in addition to wiring harnesses in the car).

This revelation likely shoots down any hopes that some nonNAV owners have expressed about simply buying a NAV DVD player from the junkyard and swapping it out. unless the NAV DVD player also has two unused plugs at the back of it, you would still be missing the wiring harness to plug into the NAV DVD player.

So at least for now, with little feedback from other nonNAV owners about efforts they've undertaken to convert to a NAV system, besides the one fellow that tried the NAV disc in the player, it would seem the best way to go (albeit, most costly) is to get the entire NAV system and swap it all out (rather than just swapping DVD players). Of course, the system I've purchased includes all the wiring harnesses so I should have everything I need to finally figure this puzzle out. I'll probably do my wiring harnesses with the same methodolgy that the 3rd GEN owner followed, which was to use only the wiring that is missing from the car, rather than trying to replace full harnesses throughout. I am just awaiting the arrival of my equipment along with the Helms manuals I ordered, before I plan my attack.

Part II, to follow.....
:thumbsup:

I too bought a white 2007 non-nav and considered buying the gps takeout unit on ebay...but when you look at the pics and see all the wiring harnesses...there is a lot that can go wrong. My career is doing electrical control wiring and integrating computer controls to operate electrical loads...and this conversion scares me...

You are my guine pig...if it works for you...I may try it...please keep me posted, and take pics along the way...I will be cheering you on from afar.

Most of the wiring is already in the car. The trick will be to sort through the harness and cull out the wiring thats already there, leaving only the additional wiring. Since I've got all the parts for the NAV, it eliminates the worry whether you have everything you need. I've started checking part numbers between Nav and base RL to see which modules might need to be swapped out besides the DVD player and the headunit. For example, I'd doubt if the bluetooth or XM modules need to be swapped. As such, those parts of the harness can be eliminated from consideration. So far I only know that two plugs are different at the back by the changer. I have my fingers crossed that the amount of wiring that needs to be changed out is relatively minimal but wont know for certain until I get my Helms books.

I quote the following from page 156-16, top of 2nd column, of the 2007 Acura (Helms) Electrical Troubleshooting Manual:

" Note: The US: Base retains all the navigation hardware, however the database and DVD have been removed. The USA: base has no navigation features but retains navigation system components to operate the voice control features for audio system and HVAC. The USA: Base is equipped with a CD-ROM that displays a compass on the display panel. "

I've started studying the Audio System and Navigation System wiring diagrams and have so far found the only difference in the wiring relates to and from the XM Acuralink module on the Acura Tech model. Whereas the base model has only XM (and therefore a different XM module). I am not terribly excited or interested in Acuralink, I just want the navigation. For the easiest conversion, it so far does look like simply substituting in the NAV DVD player for the Base Player in the trunk may in fact yield functional navigation.

please keep me posted...it ought to be real easy for you to replace the rear player...are the plug ends the same...I am very interested...

The plugs going into the NAV in the trunk are the same for Base and Tech. There are two additional sockets on the NAV which arent used in the Bbase model. They are connectors D and G. However connector D also has nothing plugged into it for the NAV model. Connector G is for the backup camera. See Service Manual years 2005-2007, Volume 2, page 23-113 through 23-117.

GREAT NEWS! I just swapped out the changer in my Base RL for one from a Tech RL and all the NAV functions work just GREAT! I NOW HAVE NAV! Voice commands and all. Even the button on the Base headunit thats labelled "compass" works just fine like the Tech head unit labelled "Map/Guide"

GREAT NEWS INDEED!!!

NOTE: the only function you wont have is AcuraLink, which requires swapping out the XM tuner for the one from the Tech as well as running some wiring. I actually have the Tech NAV tuner so I'll probably tackle that mod next

thanks for the quick reply...I guess I am immediately in the market for the dvd trunk unit...I will be pounding the ebay path...if you hear of other opportunity I am buying...this is really great news....you got to admit, not that changing the head unit would be that big of a deal, but if you had to run additional harnesses and install additional accessories, it would be quite a challenge....this makes it simple.

Mystery solved. I guess it's that easy after all. Enjoy!

Does the Nav traffic work or do you also need the upgraded xm tuner?

That's GREAT news for you! Good win for the forum and an even greater win for you! :)

You should be able to find a DVD player without too much trouble. Call salvage yards around large cities where you are more likely to find a wrecked RL. Someone on ebay bought a player from an '05 for $600 but with no DVD, so figure another $150 for the disc. The disk is $180 plus shipping through Alpine, but with the upcoming release of 2008 v. 4.56 next month you'll certainly be able to find the 2007 disc showing up on ebay soon.

Fortunately my purchase included the DVD and the security code for the DVD player. Of course I bought the entire NAV and audio system (paid $1200) because going into the project I wasnt sure if I would also need to change the head and I figured I'd rather have everything upfront than have to stop in the middle and first go out looking for additional parts. Now that you know the simple solution, I've saved you the added expense.

About the wiring harness (or lack of need for one) fortunately I didnt have to run all the harnesses because although the entire NAV pull I purchased included harnesses, the boneyard that pulled the cables did in fact chop some of the harnesses. For example although I have a complete front harness up by the head unit (which I didn't need), unfortunately they clipped the harness coming out of the XM module, so I will have to make my own harness before I can swap out the XM module for the one with the Acuralink --- or maybe I dont really need the Acuralink, can live without it and will just skip that part of the install...

Generally it wouldnt be a big deal to make a harness except where the XM Acuralink module is, there are 6 separate shielded cables containing a variety of wires in each (so running standard coax or RCA type cable won't really work). I'll have to check around at digikey.com and other sites to see where i can locate mutlistrand wire with shielding. There's probably 20 wires in total that I would need to run. A few go over to the DVD player in the trunk and the rest go to the handsfreelink control unit.

I'll need to change out the Base XM tuner for the XM with AcuraLink. I have it but thats the only part of the install that will requiring running wires, so I've not done that part yet.

btw, total time invested in the project so far is 2 evenings (5 hrs total) studying the factory wiring diagrams in the Acura (Helms) shop manual, and about 15 minutes this evening removing the felt panel by the DVD player, undoing four 8mm bolts, swapping the player, reinstalling the four 8mm bolts, and putting the felt panel back in place. I dont really include the cost of the manuals because I always buy the factory shop manuals when I buy a car.

so then when you install the nav unit, you need to have a new code...i guess i was thinking you only needed a new code when you installed the radio unit

Yes, there are two codes; one is for the radio (a five digit code) and the other is for the NAV unit (a four digit code). As long as the unit you buy still has its serial number intact, you can have Acura look up the serial number of the unit and retrieve the code.

Its a pretty cool find, but this whole situation speaks to the fact that the RL is the unwanted stepchild in the Acura lineup. Acura tried to make a cheaper model to boost sales and align with the competition, and did so in a half-baked manner. What a hack!

The non-Nav loses some wood for plood, and gets a decontented DVD player (by the way, what does the DVD player do in the non-NAV model) and no backup camera.

If they really had a plan, the difference between the non-NAV and NAV would be like the 2008 Accord. The dashboard and screen system would be different, and the buttons would not be the same between the cars. Or even the Odyssey, which has a completely different setup for NAV vs non-NAV.

So, you can buy an 07 base model RL, swap in a NAV DVD player and disk, and add a backup camera (which is still an option), and all you would lose would be NAV traffic and real wood on the dash. Even if you bought those items new from the dealer, you'd probably be ahead of the game.

In no way am I begrudging this upgrade -- its great to see someone figure it out and implement it. Acura has only themselves to blame for this.

Rob144

FWIW, 4.56 is available now and is a 2007 update. 4.55 was available in October (or so) 2006 and 4.56 became available sometime this year, in the late spring or summer (I don't check the Alpine site that much). I would hope that October 2008 brings out a newer version than 4.56 currently available.

https://store.alpine-usa.com/Acuradv.../naviorder.php

FYI, the extra connections on the back of the navi is for the back up camera. i know this cuz, on the TSX form this was discussed, with instructions on how to do it. I All it took was a plug to fit the unused connection on the dvd, a camera, and three wires for the video and power. I did this mod myself and its works just like RL. When I put the car in reverse the camera turns on. Cost me a total of $170 as the camera I got was the best on the market.

Actually, the BASE RL is really just the version of the RL they sell in Hawaii and Alaska where NAV is not available (must be too far to the west of where the satellite orbits) They made the base RL available in the states only since 2007, probably at the urging of dealerships.

This easy upgrade probably wont dissuade any RL Tech sales since I would image some people will be willing to fork over the extra 3.5 grand just to have a waranty on the items (although you could buy several replacement NAV decks for that kind of money in the unlikely event one ever went bad), and of course there are plenty of people that lease the RL, so the additional payment (for the Tech over the Base) isn't that much.

I'd imagine the people that will benefit most from this 'discovery' are would-be TL buyers who'd really like to step up to an RL except for the cost differential of the car. This mod puts the RL into the reach of more buyers.

As for the feature set, the only other item besides the plood, NAV and backup camera which is missing on the Base RL is the swivel headlights, but i've been driving into curves for 24 years without that feature and haven't gone off the road at night or hit a deer, plus the projectors throw off such a wide bright beam to begin with. If it were an ala carte option on our car, i probably wouldnt have sprung for in the first instance. I'll get the NavTraffic working eventually since I do have the AcuraLink XM tuner waiting in the box, I just have to make up a few cables to connect it since the wiring harness I got was cut unfortunately when it came out of the wreck and not complete.

Regards,

Yes, thanks for the input. Actually since I intially posted my first findings about the stock deck in the Base RL, I obtained all three volumes of the Acura service manuals and carefully read over the wiring diagrams. I think I noted in a more recent post that there are two open connectors on the stock deck, and that one remains open in both the Base and Tech models, while the backup camera goes into the other connector.

Regards,

Yes that is correct. Very easy mod.

thank you again...including freight, the dvd unit from an 05 RL is coming...i paid 170 including freight...it will be interesting to see if i can get the code...will it be compatible with an 07 RL....i will keep you posted as to my progress.

Wow what an amazingly cheap price. Even if you wind up buying the DVD from Apline you will be out the door for $350 in total. Incidently, the shop manual makes some references to the '05 RL circuitry separately from the '06-07, but I think its only as it relates to the backup camera which I dont think was available in '05 (so the connector probably isnt there on the back of the NAV unit). otherwise you should be alright.

well in my shopping i have found some new tools...you can buy on ebay (for 6.99) the technical info to getting your serial # of your unit electronically.(if you looks at the TSB's that bob posted, in one of them, they tell you how you can access the audio serial # by holding certain buttons down, but they don't tell you how to do the nav unit)...THEN, go back to ebay and for 9.99, you enter the serial # and they will tell you the pass code....so much for high security...Hopefully my new 05 nav box will have serial # and code, but if it doesn't, prehaps I can unlock it. This may yet turn out to be the best $170 I have ever spent...will keep you posted.

The disc in my current unit is version 4.56 but it does say Global Positioning, it is silver, and it says compact disc...I assume that can't be used.

Larry, its already too late to post this info for you, but I'll save the rest of you who may need to look up their NAV unit serial No. the $6.99 on ebay and post the directions how to do it. You need to get into the RL's system diagnotic mode. To do this, do the following (taken from page 23-137 of the 05-07 Service Manual Volume 2):

1. turn the ignition to ON;
2. press and hold the three buttons on the radio -> MENU, MAP/GUIDE (its labeled "Compass" on Base RL) and CANCEL. after about 5 seconds, you will be in the diagnostic mode.
3. Select "Unit Check";
4. Select "Nav ECU" and the Nav unit's serial number will be displayed on the NAV screen (its the 5th row down on the info that will be displayed).

Larry: The NAV disc is a DVD and its WHITE. The disc that comes in the BASE RL will not work in the NAV unit (and doesnt have any of the database info on it)

i bought a dvd on ebay for 107 including freight...while i know you are right that there is a good chance there is a dvd in the unit, I don't want to put it in then have to wait to get a DVD...this is the 4.56 version, new in a wrapper.

If I don't end up needing it, I will put it back on ebay

i got my ebay nav unit and installed it in the car...it would communicate with the car...it would see the sats...tell the time and do a lot, but when i entered the code it said "data disc not reading see dealer". The unit wouldn't eject the disc and it was jammed inside. it was obviously damaged....just for the heck of it I called Alpine to see what they wanted to fix it...they told me flat rate including return freight is $158....put it in a box and its on its way...ill keep you all posted.....just like (2007Accura RL) said, its not that big of a deal to remove these DVD units from the trunk.

We all hear about the high cost of Nav repairs out of warranty...this may be an option for Acura owners once out of warranty.

Wow that's a GREAT price for repair. I wonder if they can't fix it whether they will send you a brand new (refurb?) replacement. You are still ahead of the game!

Where to get a used DVD Drive?
 

That's great news on the Nav upgrade! Now where do I find a DVD drive? Searched a few minutes on ebay and the web but no luck. Any suggestions?
Any updates from those who have already done this?

gearhead,

i am awaiting my repaired 05 DVD nav unit to arrive soon. once it does i will report back to you. If the 05 works in my car, then it widens your search of available canidates for nav units. I do expect it to work, but I don't know what interface problems I'll have such as with hands free link. All of the components from year to year have different part numbers, but there can be different functions added from year to year such as back-up tv camera....cmbs...acc....gps/solar compensated HVAC system.

Try going here http://car-part.com/ to search for DVD units. expect to pay about $600 for one, and it may or may not come with the DVD disc inside. if not, you can get one off eBay. Larrynimmo got very lucky with the unit he bought because he only paid $150 for it, and even though it was broken when he received it, he got it repaired by Alpine for about another $150.

The update from my NAV conversion is that everything works GREAT! The only thing you wont have if you change just the DVD unit in the trunk is NavTraffic, since this requires a different XM receiver than what comes with the base RL. I have the XM receiver to make the NAvTraffic work, I just need to finish reviewing the wiring diagrams and make my harnesses for it. This is the only part that requires any wiring. The wiring for everything else is already in the car.

As to the NAV DVD units all having different model numbers depending on the model year of the vehicle, which larrynimmo mentioned, he's correct but I havent figured out what changes with each model. For example, I have the head unit from a Tech package RL which I swapped in place of the base head unit. And other than the Tech head unit having a faceplate with a button silkscreened with the word "Map/Guide" rather than saying "Compass" on the base model, the head unit is otherwise identical. The thing here is that the faceplate is actually a different part than the head unit (even the shop manual shows them separately) so you would think that the head units for the '07 RL would be all the same, and just have different faceplate parts. But that isnt the case since the part numbers on each head unit is different. In either case, the NAV DVD unit will work just fine with the base radio since I had it playing for 2 weeks before changing over to the tech RL head unit.

Any updates? I've been unable to find a used DVD drive but will keep looking. If anyone runs across one I'd appreciate a heads up. Thanks.

With so few RL's being sold every month, unfortunately it may take you some time to find one thats been totalled.

gearhead, I will keep my eye for you. make sure you check the forum daily.

Updates
 

Larry,
What's new? Any updates???

I keep a daily watch on ebay to find a suitable RL Nav unit and there has been none to be found. "2007AcuraRL" above has listed my purchase $150 on ebay (broke unit) sent to Alpine $162 including 2nd day air for repair...then $107 for a 4.56 DVD.

My system is still working perfectly. I have Nav, & VR...I don't have NAV-Traf...Since my DVD Nav unit came out of an 05RL, I am not able to add a backup camera.

Great. Never heard how it worked out but sounds like it went well. How hard was the install?

gearhead,

It can be done in 1/2 hour or less. The hardest part is to properly remove the carpet off from the ceiling of the trunk. You carefully pull off the black rubber gasket, then you reach inside and try to shift the white stays to the right and then they pull out. (one of these white plastic stays came off my carpet (oh well). Then on the DVD unit, you undo the 4 bolts using an 8 mm wrench. Then you can pull the DVD unit towards you. Then you need to disconnect (4 I think) special unique cable plugs. Use a small screwdriver to create leverage against the self locking clip and then wiggle out each cable. Then reinstall the new DVD unit. I think all the plugs & sockets are unique (you aren't able to plug them in wrong. Once you install the unit, you need to be in view of sattlelights and it will go through an inialization. Then it will ask you to enter the lock code for the unit.

Finally you reassemble the carpet and trunk area. Nothing here requires special skills, only patience and good light for the best handling

Does the non-nav rl cdrom drive look differently on the exterior? The reason I ask is my car already has a drive on it that says DVD ROM so I wonder if the PO did the swap but just kept the nav disc for another car?