ex_hacker202

I think I have a problem with either my battery or alternator. I own a 2005 RL with 42k miles on it.


Last weekend I stopped at a gas station to check my tire pressures (car wanted to veer to the right), and I left the ignition switch in position 1 so I could listen to the radio while messing around with the tire pressures. I also had been using the airco w/fan setting at 4 because it was very hot that day, so the ventilation fan was also running.

After about 15 minutes I was done, got in the car to leave, and it wouldn't crank! I've had this problem before when listening to the car radio when working outside, so I knew that after waiting 5-10 minutes the battery would freshen up and I'd be able to start the car, and that worked.

Yesterday I got around to investigating the potential problem(s), the voltage with the ignition off was 11.72 V, 14.12 V with car running. I looked at the "battery indicator light" and couldn't see anything, so I pulled it out, cleaned it, added some distilled water, and put it back in. Now I could clearly see the red dot that indicates "battery needs charging". So I hooked up my battery charger, and in less than 10 minutes it's gauge said the battery was fully charged, but the battery charge red indicator was still visible!

I thought about trying to check the alternator current, but there were 3 cables connected to the positive terminal, two large (and inacessable) ones and one rather small one. I decided that the smaller wire was way too thin to carry the amps coming from the alternator, so I couldn't check it's performance.

Anyone have previous problems like I described above, or have a clue as to what might be wrong with the electrical system?

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Not sure where you are located, but most AutoZone or Advanced stores will load test your battery and charging system.

Sounds to me like you need a battery, once those cells die its time to go. I put a red top in mine and have had no issues.

ex_hacker202

I need some other normal maintainance done on the car, the driver's side window controls are all messed up (for the second time), seat belt retractor needs replaced, so I'll have the dealer check the electrical system.

I'm pretty sure they'll want an arm and a leg for a new OEM battery, which exact 'Red Top' battery model did you buy, and how much? I have the 550 cold crank amp model, not the 720.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Well the window controls may be exasperated by the battery...

Here is a quick photo I snapped of the battery for ya:

ex_hacker202

Thanks for the photo! Red Top Optimum Series model 25, 720 cold crank amps, just what I want, assuming I do need a new battery.

As far as the window controls, I'm pretty sure it's caused by corroded terminals, since whenever it's raining like hell it's damn near impossible to prevent water from getting onto the armrest and into the switches.

This is the second time both rear window switches have stopped working, but now the "auto-up/auto-down" function on the driver's side window doesn't work either. Just discovered that a few days ago at a drive-thru window.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Glad I could help... I lost my auto up too and had to go through the "re-learn" procedure... assuming you haven't already done it.

ex_hacker202

Cool....thanks for the tip, never heard of how to reset the window switches....sounds like I can fix the rear window problem, but will this trick also fix the auto up/down function of the driver window?

Been googling for replacement batteries, the Red Top Optima Series model 25 costs a whopping $154 (includes shipping)! I found an OEM replacement battery at www.oemacuraparts.com http://.com/ye3z5eo for only $73.50 plus $9.25 shipping, and a Sears DieHard (North) with 640 CCA (vs. OEM 550 CCA) for $105. Oops, scratch the DieHard, just checked the dimensions and they're way different than the OEM battery dimensions.

One last question: if the battery is disconnected I'll lose some stored info, correct? What exactly? If I replace it myself, I'm thinking I could hook up my battery charger to the cables, then disconnect the them from the terminals, pull out the old battery, put in the new one, re-attach the cables, unhook the charger, then I won't lose any info. Think that'll work?

Chas2

Yes, if you reset each affected window from its individual control in the door, the driver's side multi-switch panel will also work.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Yes it fixed my Auto up when I did it so its worth a try on yours. That trick works for the sunroof too.

Yeah, when it comes to batteries I always get the max CCA and go with maintenance free even if it means you pay a little more.

I picked my Optima up at Advanced Auto parts for 140, i think.

The only thing you need once the battery is unhooked and reinstalled is the Nav and Radio codes (mine are in my manual on the last page), it took like 5 mins for the Nav to reset and the radio was instant. Then I reset my memory settings.

No other side affects that I could tell.

getakey

You should not lose any info. I replaced battery and all info safe. You may have to reenter radio code, but I did not

ex_hacker202

According to the manual (yes, I RTFM ;-), you have to re-enter the radio code, the NAV code, your seat, side mirror, and steering wheel settings (a big deal to me!) and reprogram all of your XM/FM/AM radio presets.

Think I'll go with my battery charger trick......when my battery almost died Easter Sunday, I did have to re-enter the radio code, so the voltage must have been pretty damn low at that point. Speaking of which, before I order a new battery, I assume that since the voltmeter read 14.12 V when the engine was running that the alternator is fine? How can you tell if a cell is bad?

Even though it's supposedly a "no maintainance" battery, it has a port for adding distilled water, and one of the indicator lights is for "add more water". I've never seen that in a no-ma. battery, they've always been completely sealed. And when I checked the water level, it was just barely covering the tops of the fins, so I added about 2 cups of water. I have a backup sump pump in my basement that runs on a deep-discharge marine battery, hooked up to a trickle charger, and I need to add water to it about once a year (the system has a low water sensor).

So basically I'm asking "how do I know for sure that the battery is bad? Maybe it just needed more water?". Hate to spend the money and do the work (have a bad back, and the battery is almost 40 lbs and awkward to pull out) if I don't have to.....

ex_hacker202

Yup, it worked! All windows now functional from the driver's master control switches. Such a simple fix! Why isn't that tip in the user manual? To think I had to waste half a day taking it to the dealer to get the controls fixed the first time pisses me off royally!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Manual FTW! LoL

I never lose stations... Glad the fix worked.

azcohen

Funny how these problems go around - my battery also seems weak - has had trouble cranking all brutal winter. As a result, I have to reset my windows as well, and did the sunroof recently. I was going to go into sears and have it replaced with whatever their standard is. What is the best bang for the buck with a battery?

Best to check this board before you check the manual - all answers are here thanks to people like Heavy RL - manual is only good for maintenance schedules.

Chas2

Depending on how old your car is, remember you get a 48 month warranty on the battery. Acura just gave me a new battery under warranty after 40 months.

ex_hacker202

Hope you didn't go to Sears yet.....I looked up their RL replacement battery (a DieHard) and the dimensions are way different than the OEM battery. Most critically, it's an inch higher, meaning the battery cover may not fit anymore.

Chas2

So what did you figure out?

My guess is you add your water, charge the battery up and do a load test.

I understand that even if it has a bad cell, a battery under no load will give you an acceptable voltage reading...it is only when a load is applied that you get the rest of the story.

If the battery has not been changed for 5 years, you know it is probably time....

ex_hacker202

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread or another, but after adding some distilled water I hooked up my battery charger and it turned off in less than 10 minutes, battery was fully charged.

Is a simple load test something like turning on the headlights, radio, and the fan (ignition in position II, engine off) and checking the voltage change? From what I've read it *should* be reading 12.7 -13 V with no load, if it drops into the 11's a cell is bad.

The battery is probably at least 6 years old by now, so I agree it likely needs replaced. My dealer only wants $145 to replace it, they claim 9 out of 10 times no data is lost. They didn't go for my "hook up a trickle charger while replacing the battery" trick to ensure nothing is lost.

My biggest concerns are losing the BT phone book and NAV address book data, entering the NAV and radio codes is easy, the other stuff is a royal PITA.

getakey

You should not lose any data. Ichanged myself and had no problems. Battery was out of the car for at least an hour

ex_hacker202

Thanks for the info! That makes me feel a lot safer.

Just need to get down to the dealer and get a battery installed. Oh, just remembered I'll be in their area tomorrow afternoon to see my Lyme doc, the dealer is on my way home, so I guess I'll be getting a new one tomorrow.

Saving $30-$40 bucks by buying one from a store, pulling out the old one, and putting in the new one ain't worth the hassle and potential for hurting my back. A single PT appt. costs me ~$100 out of pocket, so it's a no brainer to have the dealer do it. Plus, I still have some cash on my dealer card, the one where they give you x cents/dollar spent (same as a benefit one of my CC's give me), so it won't even cost me the full $145.

Chas2

There was an Acura ServiceNews that addresses the data loss. There is device that they can hook up that effectively backs up the data, or provides power to the data so they can keep all the settings. It may have been this particular service news that said you no longer have to go through all the systems and write down all the settings so you can reset them later. Perhaps this device only works 90% of the time, but I do think Acura had a solution for the data loss at least 2-3 years ago.

ex_hacker202

Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to mention it to the service rep tomorrow.

It must provide power to the computer(s), because when I had to have my NAV system replaced last year they said there was no way to download and save the data and upload it after the system was repaired.

I lost something like 60 saved places from my NAV address book, many of which could not be easily restored because they were for stores or golf courses that weren't directly on streets. The NAV system failure occurred when I bought the 2008 DVD update, and that was a HUGE mistake. For instance, if I type in something like "Home Depot", the closest one it finds now is hundreds of miles away! The old DVD "knew" where stores were, even if they were in shopping centers, which by definition don't really have street addresses.

Wonder if Microsoft had anything to do with the crappy "new and improved" DVD maps, LOL...

ex_hacker202

P.S. That last comment was directed towards the abomination called "Windows Vista", probably the worst OS every unleashed upon mankind....

ex_hacker202

The deed is done. Stopped at my dealer this afternoon, a tech came out and measured the voltage to make sure it was the battery before taking it into the garage, got 12.01 V on his meter, said it should be around 12.7 V.

They got me in and out in about an hour on a very busy day, total cost with tax $153.70. Me a very happy camper now, didn't lose ANY settings, just hopped in and drove away with everything intact.

On a different topic, while waiting I perused the showroom and checked out a 2010 RL on sale for $46K (down from $53), and a 2010 TL at sticker price, a whopping $43k! Jeez, last time I bought a TL (in 2004) they were around $33-$35k sticker! Can't justify that just for a bump in HP and the rear-view camera addition IMHO.

And the blue RL, a much better value at that price, had a not-so-nice shade of blue exterior paint w/grey interior, but the console around the shifter was made from a really cheap looking blue plastic, not the parchment faux leather/vinyl in my 2005 RL. And there was lots more of that crappy blue plastic all over the interior, it really degraded the appearance of what's supposed to be a luxury sedan (my interior has faux wood plastic in most of those places, a WAY better look!).

Lastly, it appears that those new horses come at a significant cost, a big drop in the advertised mileage. My 2005 was listed at 26 mpg highway, but I regularly get 29-30 mpg. The 2010 has a horrendous 22 highway mpg listed....I get that tooling around town, fer chrissakes! Even the much lighter 2010 TL had a pretty crappy highway rating. Ain't technology supposed to make mileage go UP?

guss_90

Very good information on Battery voltage w out load.
I have replace my battery after cold winter, since battery died on me last month. When to Autozone, pick one battery from the same CRANK level as oem, but for some reason, after 2 weeks the NEW battery died on me over a weekend. I have checked readings and Voltage w/out load in ignition II position = 12.1 and Car running+ AC + Radio+ lights= 13.8.

If im supose to be in the 14 voltage, something is wrong ? Right ??
I

ex_hacker202

Sounds to me like you have a bad alternator. Before I bought my new battery I checked the old one with no load (11.9 V - 12.01 V) and with the engine running, radio and fan on but not the AC or headlights, got a reading of 14.3 V.

The AC compressor shouldn't have anything to do with your alternator output in any case, it runs off an engine pulley, saps HP but not juice. And I highly doubt the headlights pull a big enough load to drop the alternator output below 14 V.

Do you have a battery charger? You could do some diagnostics if so, but unless you want to remove half the engine covers to get to the alternator (from topside) you probably need to go to a dealer or garage to get the alternator output checked.

I don't know if the brushes in Acura/Honda alternators are replaceable, but that's normally what fails first, a very cheap fix vs. a new or rebuilt unit. Less reputable places won't even bother to check the brushes, they'll just sell you a new alternator, so call around first before you take your car somewhere. GL.