What will Honda/Acura do?
02-02-2006, 09:56 PM
#81
Originally Posted by hondamore
Regardless of the number of RL's that are sold, it is still "doing it's job" for Acura. Every time an Acura salesman sells a TL by saying to the prospective buyer, "other than AWD, it's got all the features of the RL and it costs $50,000", the RL is doing it's job. Every time an Acura salesman sells a TSX by stating that, "it has many of the same features as the $50,000 RL", the RL is doing it's job. I'm guessing that if you look at the numbers, those models are doing very well despite not really offering anything new this year and THAT is in large part a result of being compared to their big brother, the flagship RL.
From an RL owner's standpoint, low sales numbers are a good thing since when I go to sell my RL years from now, there will be very few of them available and that can only help me sell it at a good price. As I've mentioned before, I was in the same situation with my '94 Legend Coupe 6spd - it had very low sales volume but no shortage of people who knew how great a car it was when it came time to sell it 10 years later. The car's only weakness when new was that it wasn't a Lexus and the same situation seems to be happening with the new RL. Like the Legend before it, the RL is loved by anyone who can get past the lack of brand image (snob appeal) long enough to go drive one.
From an RL owner's standpoint, low sales numbers are a good thing since when I go to sell my RL years from now, there will be very few of them available and that can only help me sell it at a good price. As I've mentioned before, I was in the same situation with my '94 Legend Coupe 6spd - it had very low sales volume but no shortage of people who knew how great a car it was when it came time to sell it 10 years later. The car's only weakness when new was that it wasn't a Lexus and the same situation seems to be happening with the new RL. Like the Legend before it, the RL is loved by anyone who can get past the lack of brand image (snob appeal) long enough to go drive one.
Desirability does, and that's why your Legend Coupe 6 speed is sought after.
02-02-2006, 10:00 PM
#82
Originally Posted by mikef
The problem is the car, it is overpriced, overweight with too small of a trunk and back seat. Anyone who thinks the RL is misunderstood sounds like the parent of aa drug addicted child. Denial is hard to face. The car is a flop. Even if the technology package were included it would still be too expensive. Acura could fix it and needs to act now.
The RL just needs some work.
And on the topic of elevating the brand image, they'd be better off dropping the RSX or demoting it to a Honda Prelude or something.
Every other RSX out there is riced out by teenagers
02-02-2006, 10:04 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
The difference between the current RL and Legend/Legend Coupe is that the current RL is no Legend.
Then the current RL which in its own right is a great car, but when compared to others in its class, again it's only adequate and lingers around near the bottom of its class.
Then the current RL which in its own right is a great car, but when compared to others in its class, again it's only adequate and lingers around near the bottom of its class.
Again. What does Honda/Acura need to do about it? Nothing! The RL is perfect the way it is, and I hope they don't change anything to make it more appealing to the masses.
If other people don't find it or it doesn't have snob appeal for them, or it doesn't have a V8 or there are no options for which they need to pay extra and they are not buying it in numbers . . . . . . all the better for us who own it.
02-02-2006, 10:32 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
That is where you are "diminishing" the RL.
If other people don't find it or it doesn't have snob appeal for them, or it doesn't have a V8 or there are no options for which they need to pay extra and they are not buying it in numbers . . . . . . all the better for us who own it.
If other people don't find it or it doesn't have snob appeal for them, or it doesn't have a V8 or there are no options for which they need to pay extra and they are not buying it in numbers . . . . . . all the better for us who own it.
The difference between the current RL and Legend/Legend Coupe is that the current RL is no Legend.
Then the current RL which in its own right is a great car, but when compared to others in its class, again it's only adequate and lingers around near the bottom of its class.
And as for linger near the bottom of its class, do I really need to post the sales figures for Jan. 2006 again?
Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
Again. What does Honda/Acura need to do about it? Nothing! The RL is perfect the way it is, and I hope they don't change anything to make it more appealing to the masses.
Again, if you see NO problem in low sales and think the RL is great and it's the perfect car for you, GREAT! But then you have no place in a thread that was started PRECISELY because of low sales, and you provide NO help in answering the thread's title, "What will Honda/Acura do?"
02-02-2006, 11:32 PM
#85
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The RL is bigger on the outside than it is on the inside. It is very close dimensionally to the LS430. The LS430 is much roomier with a much bigger trunk and has a V-8 engine with a 6-speed automatic. The LS also weighs less. The LS is just one example. The LS gets the same MPG as an RL with considerably more acceleration. Also please get over comparing it only to AWD cars. Acura came up with SH-AWD rather than devolop a new platform. Most people do not care about AWD. The RL is a good car, not a great car up against very tough competition. The price of the RL seems high in relation to Acuras other products as they relate to there segments. Acura could of course do nothing but that benefits nobody. Those who say the low sales will help resale are dreaming. I bought an 02 RL in 03 for less than 30K when I needed a cheap reliable big car. Please Acura lighten this overweight car, add a gear to the transmission and people will overlook the tight backseat and trunk.
02-02-2006, 11:34 PM
#86
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my 2 cents on this...
I think it looks like a perception problem. The car is a helluva good car... it will certainly be one of my top 2 choices when time comes to trade up from my 04 TL. And I agree with the folks on the forum that say that the RL is a great car and does what it does very well having test driven one already.
I think it's just a matter of expectations from customers (specially those looking to trade up from where they are now.) I think the RL is too similar (perception-wise) to the TL. Other manufacturer's make the clear distinction between the models in their line ups.
MB - C class (compact), E class (midsize), S class (large, top of the line)
BMW - 3 series, 5 series, 7 series
Lexus - IS, ES (midsize - sedan), GS (midsize - sporty sedan), LS (large)
Audi - A4, A6, A8
Acura - TSX, TL, RL
So when people comparison shop, they possibly can't decide what to compare the RL to since it's supposed to be the top of the line Acura but don't compare to the top of the line for other manufacturers in terms of size and perceived luxo content and presence. It almost contradicts the common model of Small, Medium, Large or XL for a line-up. Maybe Acura needs to make the RL bigger, more powerful or introduce a car that will match up better against Lexus LS, or Audi A8.
I think the RL is an awesome car but maybe could use a little clearing up of the identity crisis that many people perceive of this car.
I think it looks like a perception problem. The car is a helluva good car... it will certainly be one of my top 2 choices when time comes to trade up from my 04 TL. And I agree with the folks on the forum that say that the RL is a great car and does what it does very well having test driven one already.
I think it's just a matter of expectations from customers (specially those looking to trade up from where they are now.) I think the RL is too similar (perception-wise) to the TL. Other manufacturer's make the clear distinction between the models in their line ups.
MB - C class (compact), E class (midsize), S class (large, top of the line)
BMW - 3 series, 5 series, 7 series
Lexus - IS, ES (midsize - sedan), GS (midsize - sporty sedan), LS (large)
Audi - A4, A6, A8
Acura - TSX, TL, RL
So when people comparison shop, they possibly can't decide what to compare the RL to since it's supposed to be the top of the line Acura but don't compare to the top of the line for other manufacturers in terms of size and perceived luxo content and presence. It almost contradicts the common model of Small, Medium, Large or XL for a line-up. Maybe Acura needs to make the RL bigger, more powerful or introduce a car that will match up better against Lexus LS, or Audi A8.
I think the RL is an awesome car but maybe could use a little clearing up of the identity crisis that many people perceive of this car.
02-03-2006, 01:55 AM
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Sorry, mrdeeno, but what is it that makes you so insistent people agree with you?
You insist on the one hand that the RL is a great car, but on the other hand imply that it sucks ("it's NO Legend", to quote your exclamation). Well, I've driven several M's. They didn't impress me. I didn't like the interior design, the exterior styling, the nav, the switch gear, a whole host of things. But am I therefore blind to the M's charms? Of course not. We all have our own opinions and ideas of what's important in a car.
In the final analysis, lack of big sales DOES NOT TRANSLATE into lack of greatness in an automobile. Plenty of incredible films never find an audience. And lots of talented artists die starving. No, in my lifetime thus far, I have seen many fine cars passed over by folks who made buying decisions that didn't make sense. Car sales are nothing more than an indicator of public perceptions and what is way too often an emotional choice. In fact, with a diminished 5 series leading the sales pack, isn't that sad proof enough for you that too many luxury buyers are looking more for status than for substance?
The answer you keep trying to get people to focus on IS in those January sales figures. But you are missing it (in my opinion). If there is one thing that the RL doesn't deliver that upper luxury buyers crave above all else...it's status. No matter how pedestrian the new 5 series is (or how bad the horror stories are about Mercedes quality), those are the marquees people want to be seen in. (Even Infiniti, for all its limitations, including those lovely TV commercials it was born out of with no cars, only rocks and water, has moved to up its status quotient in recent years.) Acura tossed that element out the window when it ditched the Legend name and diluted the brand with cheaper cars.
Today's RL is, as others have put it more eloquently than I ever can, a stealth vehicle. It doesn't have that well regarded Legend name. It's more compact than its predecessors. It's sold by dealers who are moving lots more automobiles in lesser price segments. And its advertising is too laid back. But for me and many others, it is the superlative vehicle in its price segment. It's driving performance and ownership satisfaction are absolutely tops. (And I don't smoke, let alone blow it up anyone's ass.)
So what will Honda/Acura do, as this thread asks? Probably accept 12-15,000 sales a year until it can up the panache of not just the car, but the brand itself. And if I were in Japan, sitting across from Takeo Fukui I would tell him not to heed the voices pushing for a V-8. I'd tell him to astound them instead by building a 400 HP V-6 and stuff that into the next RL. Then I'd tell him to change the name of the car back to Legend. And lastly, I'd tell him to ditch the bad dealers and help the good ones get better.
Don't worry about poor Honda/Acura in the meantime though. With January 2006 sales at both Honda and Acura setting new records, this year looks to be a rich one. Even the RL will be just fine for now. (Having friends drive mine sold another 2 RLs over the last year, so word of mouth does help.) And RL sales continue to well outdistance those of two years ago.
Still, if I could just get that meeting with Mr. Fukui...
You insist on the one hand that the RL is a great car, but on the other hand imply that it sucks ("it's NO Legend", to quote your exclamation). Well, I've driven several M's. They didn't impress me. I didn't like the interior design, the exterior styling, the nav, the switch gear, a whole host of things. But am I therefore blind to the M's charms? Of course not. We all have our own opinions and ideas of what's important in a car.
In the final analysis, lack of big sales DOES NOT TRANSLATE into lack of greatness in an automobile. Plenty of incredible films never find an audience. And lots of talented artists die starving. No, in my lifetime thus far, I have seen many fine cars passed over by folks who made buying decisions that didn't make sense. Car sales are nothing more than an indicator of public perceptions and what is way too often an emotional choice. In fact, with a diminished 5 series leading the sales pack, isn't that sad proof enough for you that too many luxury buyers are looking more for status than for substance?
The answer you keep trying to get people to focus on IS in those January sales figures. But you are missing it (in my opinion). If there is one thing that the RL doesn't deliver that upper luxury buyers crave above all else...it's status. No matter how pedestrian the new 5 series is (or how bad the horror stories are about Mercedes quality), those are the marquees people want to be seen in. (Even Infiniti, for all its limitations, including those lovely TV commercials it was born out of with no cars, only rocks and water, has moved to up its status quotient in recent years.) Acura tossed that element out the window when it ditched the Legend name and diluted the brand with cheaper cars.
Today's RL is, as others have put it more eloquently than I ever can, a stealth vehicle. It doesn't have that well regarded Legend name. It's more compact than its predecessors. It's sold by dealers who are moving lots more automobiles in lesser price segments. And its advertising is too laid back. But for me and many others, it is the superlative vehicle in its price segment. It's driving performance and ownership satisfaction are absolutely tops. (And I don't smoke, let alone blow it up anyone's ass.)
So what will Honda/Acura do, as this thread asks? Probably accept 12-15,000 sales a year until it can up the panache of not just the car, but the brand itself. And if I were in Japan, sitting across from Takeo Fukui I would tell him not to heed the voices pushing for a V-8. I'd tell him to astound them instead by building a 400 HP V-6 and stuff that into the next RL. Then I'd tell him to change the name of the car back to Legend. And lastly, I'd tell him to ditch the bad dealers and help the good ones get better.
Don't worry about poor Honda/Acura in the meantime though. With January 2006 sales at both Honda and Acura setting new records, this year looks to be a rich one. Even the RL will be just fine for now. (Having friends drive mine sold another 2 RLs over the last year, so word of mouth does help.) And RL sales continue to well outdistance those of two years ago.
Still, if I could just get that meeting with Mr. Fukui...
02-03-2006, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DCRL
Sorry, mrdeeno, but what is it that makes you so insistent people agree with you?
I'm not insistent that people agree with me and don't expect them too, as long as they have good reason. They can present their view WITHIN the context of the thread and give their reasons.
It can be a total contrarian view for all I care as long as they give reasons within context.
but many posts don't even express a viewpoint except "RWD-whore" or "I'm ashamed to be from the same hometown as you", or "dumbass".
and you're RIGHT...sales numbers DO NOT equate to a great/bad car, but this thread IS NOT ABOUT how great the RL is...this thread CONCERNS PRECISELY the low sales figure in Jan. 06. So i don't see your point in not bringing it up.
and the VERY REASON i have to keep bringing it up is because when I STATE THE OBVIOUS: RL sales suck...i get responses saying they're "baseless allegations" or I have "an axe to grind". And on top of that these people NEVER justify their reasoning. If you think my "allegations" are baseless, PROVE IT! telling me I have an axe to grind, as one person said, doesn't disprove any of my allegations!
Again, if you mistakenly thought I implied the RL sucks, then you're wrong. the RL is a great car, but the Legend was a greater car in its time, and that was my point.
The Acura brand was introduced with the Legend and received high praise upon arrival and proved that the Japanese makers have a viable alternative to the Euro's. It also offered CHOICES...sedan, coupe, 6-speed, trim levels, options, etc. it was in high demand then, and even now, as used cars, it's in high demand.
As great as the current RL is, it's not any of these things.
That's MY reason for saying the RL is no Legend.
02-03-2006, 07:34 AM
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My prediction...
they'll do a mid-model update for the '07 model year that'll be pretty extensive. Maybe tech-package standard, 18" rims standard with choice of summer or AS tires, and an overhaul on the looks.
OR
they'll keep the tech-package as an option, lower the package price, and come out with more options packages like a sport package (19" rims, lowered ride height, sportier seats, maybe eek out more power). And maybe even a premium package (night-cam, backup cam, ventilated front AND back seats, massage seats, rain sensing wipers).
OR
they'll come out with a hardcore sport version. SH-AWD with 30-70 f/r distribution instead of the current 70-30, a slightly larger engine with more power, a 6-speed manual, 18/19" rims, sportier seats, and maybe load it with all the goodies they have in the JDM model.
They're pretty limited with the changes they can make in this generation.
Then 2 years later they introduce the next generation, and somehow with their Honda Ingenuity, make this FWD platform into a RWD platform, thereby saving costs by keeping the platform for their FWD cars and still being able to produce a RWD car on it to quell the "RWD-whores". and by RWD, I mean SH-RWD. And of course the "standard hybrid" RL will be based on the SH-RWD model, but incorporate 2 electric motors to drive the front wheels.
And this model will be loaded with all the tech and comfort goodies standard now, but offer options like massaging ventilated seats, panoramic sunroof, LED headlights, electric brakes THAT WORK (unlike the E-class), etc. It will TRULY be a techno-tour de force.
And all this for a price around $50k for the base (AWD and RWD) and $57-60k loaded, thereby still undercutting Lexus pricing and still offer more.
they'll do a mid-model update for the '07 model year that'll be pretty extensive. Maybe tech-package standard, 18" rims standard with choice of summer or AS tires, and an overhaul on the looks.
OR
they'll keep the tech-package as an option, lower the package price, and come out with more options packages like a sport package (19" rims, lowered ride height, sportier seats, maybe eek out more power). And maybe even a premium package (night-cam, backup cam, ventilated front AND back seats, massage seats, rain sensing wipers).
OR
they'll come out with a hardcore sport version. SH-AWD with 30-70 f/r distribution instead of the current 70-30, a slightly larger engine with more power, a 6-speed manual, 18/19" rims, sportier seats, and maybe load it with all the goodies they have in the JDM model.
They're pretty limited with the changes they can make in this generation.
Then 2 years later they introduce the next generation, and somehow with their Honda Ingenuity, make this FWD platform into a RWD platform, thereby saving costs by keeping the platform for their FWD cars and still being able to produce a RWD car on it to quell the "RWD-whores". and by RWD, I mean SH-RWD. And of course the "standard hybrid" RL will be based on the SH-RWD model, but incorporate 2 electric motors to drive the front wheels.
And this model will be loaded with all the tech and comfort goodies standard now, but offer options like massaging ventilated seats, panoramic sunroof, LED headlights, electric brakes THAT WORK (unlike the E-class), etc. It will TRULY be a techno-tour de force.
And all this for a price around $50k for the base (AWD and RWD) and $57-60k loaded, thereby still undercutting Lexus pricing and still offer more.
02-03-2006, 08:40 AM
#91
Three Wheelin'
Those are good suggestions mrdeeno. It's good that this thread is moving back towards being productive. I hope that the mid-cycle refresh comes a little early, in the 2007 model year instead of the 2008. I also hope they make technology package standard equipment minus the run-flat tires, and keep a similar MSRP.
Another tactic is to keep the MSRP the same year after year while competitors increase their prices. That way, Acura can simultaneously undercut the competition and save face.
Another tactic is to keep the MSRP the same year after year while competitors increase their prices. That way, Acura can simultaneously undercut the competition and save face.
02-03-2006, 09:17 AM
#92
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Those are good suggestions mrdeeno. It's good that this thread is moving back towards being productive. I hope that the mid-cycle refresh comes a little early, in the 2007 model year instead of the 2008. I also hope they make technology package standard equipment minus the run-flat tires, and keep a similar MSRP.
When is the current TL due for a facelift? 2007 model year? Not like the TL needs a facelift with good sales, but maybe we can base a "trend" on what acura will do to the RL when they facelift the TL. I'm sure the TL's gonna get the key-less start and maybe bi-xenons, if not adaptive headlights.
and they could get a little creative on the RL's keyfob too, make it look cooler looking/feeling.
02-03-2006, 10:50 AM
#93
Three Wheelin'
The old TL was also selling well when it received its mid-cycle refresh, so I'm sure we'll get something interesting for the 2007 TL. Regarding the RL, maybe they will make the A-spec standard equipment.
02-03-2006, 11:23 AM
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Hi Everyone. I've been reading this super long thread about what Honda/Acura is going to due regarding poor sales. Although I agree that The manufacturers should carry a large part of the blame for a car failing to sell (thay are after all responsible for making and marketing their products), they are not the one's who should carry 100% of the blame. What I mean to say is, what about their captive finance companies???
I will admit that some of my information I'm about to tell you is not 100% accurate, but just go with me on this.
1. Regarding leases: Not sure what percentage of the 'M' and the 'RL' sold in the month of January are leases, but I'll guess it is significant. There was a post on Edmunds.com in the Acura lease section and I quote:
"I was recently offered a 2006 RL for $500 above invoice in Northern New Jersey. The crappy .00260 money factor and the 55% residual value made the lease's monthly payment more than the $58,000 Infiniti M45 Sport that I am picking up on monday. I got the M45 for $1K above invoice ($54,000), but with a .00161 money factor and 57% residual, the lease is cheaper than the RL. And because I have good credit, unlike the RL's lease, I do not have to put down a security deposit. Also, I just don't think that the RL, with its V6, is in the same performance class as the 335 horsepower V8 in the M45 Sport. "
This is my point regarding the captive finance companies. Honda finance is not offering (or helping, depending on how you see it) very good lease deals in comparison to Infinity. I have an 05 RL which I leased in Aug. 05 and I love it, much more than the 06 Infinity M. But if I could get a loaded 06 M45 for less than an 05 RL back when I got my car, I would have seriously considered it. I'm not sure how much of an influence this has had on sales but I'm guessing it's significant enough to have maybe cause potential RL, or other luxury brand buyers, to opt for the M.
2. The other point I wanted to make: All new restyled M's are 06 model years even though they have been on sale for almost a year. Pushing an 05 RL last year when the Infinity's direct competitor was already an 06 must have had some impact. After all, a 1 year difference in a car can have a significant impact on it's trade in value later on. Infinity had a little unfair advantage in this regard.
I will admit that some of my information I'm about to tell you is not 100% accurate, but just go with me on this.
1. Regarding leases: Not sure what percentage of the 'M' and the 'RL' sold in the month of January are leases, but I'll guess it is significant. There was a post on Edmunds.com in the Acura lease section and I quote:
"I was recently offered a 2006 RL for $500 above invoice in Northern New Jersey. The crappy .00260 money factor and the 55% residual value made the lease's monthly payment more than the $58,000 Infiniti M45 Sport that I am picking up on monday. I got the M45 for $1K above invoice ($54,000), but with a .00161 money factor and 57% residual, the lease is cheaper than the RL. And because I have good credit, unlike the RL's lease, I do not have to put down a security deposit. Also, I just don't think that the RL, with its V6, is in the same performance class as the 335 horsepower V8 in the M45 Sport. "
This is my point regarding the captive finance companies. Honda finance is not offering (or helping, depending on how you see it) very good lease deals in comparison to Infinity. I have an 05 RL which I leased in Aug. 05 and I love it, much more than the 06 Infinity M. But if I could get a loaded 06 M45 for less than an 05 RL back when I got my car, I would have seriously considered it. I'm not sure how much of an influence this has had on sales but I'm guessing it's significant enough to have maybe cause potential RL, or other luxury brand buyers, to opt for the M.
2. The other point I wanted to make: All new restyled M's are 06 model years even though they have been on sale for almost a year. Pushing an 05 RL last year when the Infinity's direct competitor was already an 06 must have had some impact. After all, a 1 year difference in a car can have a significant impact on it's trade in value later on. Infinity had a little unfair advantage in this regard.
02-03-2006, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sopadepollo
2. The other point I wanted to make: All new restyled M's are 06 model years even though they have been on sale for almost a year. Pushing an 05 RL last year when the Infinity's direct competitor was already an 06 must have had some impact. After all, a 1 year difference in a car can have a significant impact on it's trade in value later on. Infinity had a little unfair advantage in this regard.
when it got totalled this past year, they gave me a good price for it since it was a 2001 model, even though it could be ONE YEAR OLDER than other 2001 CL-S's. So yes, that does effect resale value if you bought in early in lifecycle.
I think the lease theory you have is similar to when people compare the infiniti M to BMW 5-series. They can get into a comparably equipped, but more expensive 5-series for maybe $5-10 more per month on their lease. And when you factor in the "image" or "badge" and most people would go for that. I'm sure the E-class is similar too, which is why the Germans can charge such high prices for their cars and they still 'sell' (or lease) in such higher numbers.
anyone know how lexus fairs in these leasing matters? I assume they have pretty high residuals too. not sure about the money factor though.
and who actually sets the residuals? KBB? if that, then the only thing they can "manipulate" is the money factor.
02-03-2006, 11:57 AM
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And the M35X, M35 and M45 have been pitted head-to-head against the RL around a track and won everytime.[/QUOTE]
Hey psteng19,
I had a great History teacher in high scholl who said" Never make a sweeping comment without being able to back it up" You are WRONG to say the the Infinity M's beat out the Acura RL "everytime". Please go to edmunds.com, click on photos& video, and then click on Comparison test. There were 2 seperate comparison test done and the Acura RL beat the Infinity's on both of them. The Acura was even in first place on the V6, auto tranny, AWD comparison. And on the other Comparison, the V6 Acura RL beat out the V8 powered M 45 sport.
Now I would appreciate an apology (in writing on this forum) on your part regarding your false and baseless sweeping remarks regarding our much loved winner, the Acura RL.
Hey psteng19,
I had a great History teacher in high scholl who said" Never make a sweeping comment without being able to back it up" You are WRONG to say the the Infinity M's beat out the Acura RL "everytime". Please go to edmunds.com, click on photos& video, and then click on Comparison test. There were 2 seperate comparison test done and the Acura RL beat the Infinity's on both of them. The Acura was even in first place on the V6, auto tranny, AWD comparison. And on the other Comparison, the V6 Acura RL beat out the V8 powered M 45 sport.
Now I would appreciate an apology (in writing on this forum) on your part regarding your false and baseless sweeping remarks regarding our much loved winner, the Acura RL.
02-03-2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
and who actually sets the residuals? KBB? if that, then the only thing they can "manipulate" is the money factor.
02-03-2006, 01:32 PM
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More Sales Data
This thread started with a very narrow focus of asking a question based upon reported January sales, a typically slow sales month for cars. Raw numbers from one month were provided without any background or discussion, which is certainly fine. Before this thread dies out from exhaustion (lots of good thoughts and some emotion expressed here) I thought a little more information and another perspective might be helpful.
In addition to the already reported January data, here is the data for the bottom three vehicles for the last quarter of 05 for examination. As most everyone knows the RL comes in only one configuration (the tech option is not truly a different configuration) while the A6 comes in three configurations (3.2, 4.2 and 3.2 Avant) and the Infiniti M also in three configurations (45, 35, 35x) with sport suspension options for the 35 and 45 providing additional sub-configurations.
The sales data lumps the sales of all configurations into one report so all of the Infiniti M configurations (and subspecies) are totaled together and the same for the A6. The RL has but one flavor so its data is pure RL and not a melting pot of different cars thrown into one statistic like the others. Here’s the final three months of 05 for consideration:
Dec Nov Oct.
Infiniti M 2552 1982 2231
A6 1767 1625 1382
RL 1278 1298 1550
The one flavor of RL appears to be quite competitive in sales with any single flavor of A6 or M. In answer to the question posed in the thread, what is Acura to do with the RL?, I agree with others that Acura should essentially do nothing, other than make incremental changes and improvements along the way. If it wants to produce sales numbers competitive with Infiniti and Audi (as well as the others) all it needs to do is add further flavors that will broaden its appeal and increase its sales. However that’s not the Acura way to date, either with the RL or its other models, so it has knowingly chosen to provide us with just one great RL to choose from and if someone likes a flavor from one of the multiple flavors of the other car makers instead, then so be it.
I would be very happy to have an Audi, Infiniti, BMW or Mercedes in my garage but in October, 04 I traded my BMW 530 for the 05 RL had have had zero regrets. I would still make the same choice today. But that’s just me and others might make a different choice among these fine cars.
In addition to the already reported January data, here is the data for the bottom three vehicles for the last quarter of 05 for examination. As most everyone knows the RL comes in only one configuration (the tech option is not truly a different configuration) while the A6 comes in three configurations (3.2, 4.2 and 3.2 Avant) and the Infiniti M also in three configurations (45, 35, 35x) with sport suspension options for the 35 and 45 providing additional sub-configurations.
The sales data lumps the sales of all configurations into one report so all of the Infiniti M configurations (and subspecies) are totaled together and the same for the A6. The RL has but one flavor so its data is pure RL and not a melting pot of different cars thrown into one statistic like the others. Here’s the final three months of 05 for consideration:
Dec Nov Oct.
Infiniti M 2552 1982 2231
A6 1767 1625 1382
RL 1278 1298 1550
The one flavor of RL appears to be quite competitive in sales with any single flavor of A6 or M. In answer to the question posed in the thread, what is Acura to do with the RL?, I agree with others that Acura should essentially do nothing, other than make incremental changes and improvements along the way. If it wants to produce sales numbers competitive with Infiniti and Audi (as well as the others) all it needs to do is add further flavors that will broaden its appeal and increase its sales. However that’s not the Acura way to date, either with the RL or its other models, so it has knowingly chosen to provide us with just one great RL to choose from and if someone likes a flavor from one of the multiple flavors of the other car makers instead, then so be it.
I would be very happy to have an Audi, Infiniti, BMW or Mercedes in my garage but in October, 04 I traded my BMW 530 for the 05 RL had have had zero regrets. I would still make the same choice today. But that’s just me and others might make a different choice among these fine cars.
02-03-2006, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hendjaz
This thread started with a very narrow focus of asking a question based upon reported January sales, a typically slow sales month for cars. Raw numbers from one month were provided without any background or discussion, which is certainly fine. Before this thread dies out from exhaustion (lots of good thoughts and some emotion expressed here) I thought a little more information and another perspective might be helpful.
In addition to the already reported January data, here is the data for the bottom three vehicles for the last quarter of 05 for examination. As most everyone knows the RL comes in only one configuration (the tech option is not truly a different configuration) while the A6 comes in three configurations (3.2, 4.2 and 3.2 Avant) and the Infiniti M also in three configurations (45, 35, 35x) with sport suspension options for the 35 and 45 providing additional sub-configurations.
The sales data lumps the sales of all configurations into one report so all of the Infiniti M configurations (and subspecies) are totaled together and the same for the A6. The RL has but one flavor so its data is pure RL and not a melting pot of different cars thrown into one statistic like the others. Here’s the final three months of 05 for consideration:
Dec Nov Oct.
Infiniti M 2552 1982 2231
A6 1767 1625 1382
RL 1278 1298 1550
The one flavor of RL appears to be quite competitive in sales with any single flavor of A6 or M. In answer to the question posed in the thread, what is Acura to do with the RL?, I agree with others that Acura should essentially do nothing, other than make incremental changes and improvements along the way. If it wants to produce sales numbers competitive with Infiniti and Audi (as well as the others) all it needs to do is add further flavors that will broaden its appeal and increase its sales. However that’s not the Acura way to date, either with the RL or its other models, so it has knowingly chosen to provide us with just one great RL to choose from and if someone likes a flavor from one of the multiple flavors of the other car makers instead, then so be it.
I would be very happy to have an Audi, Infiniti, BMW or Mercedes in my garage but in October, 04 I traded my BMW 530 for the 05 RL had have had zero regrets. I would still make the same choice today. But that’s just me and others might make a different choice among these fine cars.
In addition to the already reported January data, here is the data for the bottom three vehicles for the last quarter of 05 for examination. As most everyone knows the RL comes in only one configuration (the tech option is not truly a different configuration) while the A6 comes in three configurations (3.2, 4.2 and 3.2 Avant) and the Infiniti M also in three configurations (45, 35, 35x) with sport suspension options for the 35 and 45 providing additional sub-configurations.
The sales data lumps the sales of all configurations into one report so all of the Infiniti M configurations (and subspecies) are totaled together and the same for the A6. The RL has but one flavor so its data is pure RL and not a melting pot of different cars thrown into one statistic like the others. Here’s the final three months of 05 for consideration:
Dec Nov Oct.
Infiniti M 2552 1982 2231
A6 1767 1625 1382
RL 1278 1298 1550
The one flavor of RL appears to be quite competitive in sales with any single flavor of A6 or M. In answer to the question posed in the thread, what is Acura to do with the RL?, I agree with others that Acura should essentially do nothing, other than make incremental changes and improvements along the way. If it wants to produce sales numbers competitive with Infiniti and Audi (as well as the others) all it needs to do is add further flavors that will broaden its appeal and increase its sales. However that’s not the Acura way to date, either with the RL or its other models, so it has knowingly chosen to provide us with just one great RL to choose from and if someone likes a flavor from one of the multiple flavors of the other car makers instead, then so be it.
I would be very happy to have an Audi, Infiniti, BMW or Mercedes in my garage but in October, 04 I traded my BMW 530 for the 05 RL had have had zero regrets. I would still make the same choice today. But that’s just me and others might make a different choice among these fine cars.
I totally agree with your reading of this data....see a previous post of mine. I also chose an 06 RL over an 06 BMW 530xi (I wanted AWD) when I was shopping (it came down to the RL, 530xi and A6 3.2). I'm glad to hear someone who actually had a BMW 5 and now has an RL. All I read in the general LPS forums while shopping was how wonderful BMWs and Mercedes are and how boring and slow RLs are. I just did not find the RL is be less responsive than the BMWs during my test drives, and I preferred many other things about the RL as well.
02-03-2006, 02:20 PM
#101
Mrdeeno... as a fellow M45 owner (and former RL owner), I'm requesting that you please let it go already. I think this thread has been beaten to death. You clearly love your car, as I do, and the RL owners love theirs. Nothing anyone can say about my M can make me enjoy it any less, and accordingly, nothing you say about the RL can make them enjoy it any less.
Yes, there have been some responses that have been uncalled for, but people are passionate about their cars. Let it go already.
Yes, there have been some responses that have been uncalled for, but people are passionate about their cars. Let it go already.
02-03-2006, 03:26 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by hendjaz
However that’s not the Acura way to date, either with the RL or its other models, so it has knowingly chosen to provide us with just one great RL to choose from and if someone likes a flavor from one of the multiple flavors of the other car makers instead, then so be it.
The previous generation of cars:
TL
CL
RSX
NSX
all had different configurations (TL/CL + type-S, RSX + type-S, NSX + Zanardi)
And before that also:
2.3/3.0 CL, TL (I think it was 2.3 and 3.0 also?), Vigor before, Integra before (LS, GS, GSR, type-R)
and then the Legend also (coupe, sedan, and ithink it offered different engines).
I think the MDX was the first model to receive 1-configuration, then the current TSX, TL, and now RL.
So it's only been this most recent generation of cars have they started offering only 1 configuration for it's cars. the last remaining one that offers more than 1 is the RSX, but many have suggested it's gonna be killed.
It was their business decision to sell the RL in one configuration and i'm confident that they expected it to do MUCH MUCH better. EVERY business, whether it be a carmaker, or a computer maker, or a toilet maker, wants its products to sell well beyond expectations. They make business/marketing decisions...some win big, some fail, and some just get by.
so I don't believe for a minute that anyone at Honda/Acura is satisfied with the RL sales. No one there will publicly admit it, but saying that they intended to sell a low number of RLs would be sugarcoating on a bitter pill. That would be like going to a Texas hold'em tournament and hoping you'd be the first or 2nd one out.
02-03-2006, 04:01 PM
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Let me see if I can remember my stats-class to explain this for those math people:
let's say there are 7 entrants in this category of mid-size lux cars.
let's assume that out of a fixed "pool" of potential consumers, because each consumer will prefer different things and each entrant has its own strengths and weaknesses, no one entrant has any advantage over the other.
[this can actually be considered true to an extent...for every person who will buy a bmw for the badge, there's someone else that'll buy a lexus for reliability, and someone else who will buy the caddy for "patriotism", and there's someone who will buy a car because it's the cheapest, and someone who will buy a car because it's the most expensive, etc.]
with the above in mind, each entrant therefore has a 1 out of 7 chance of scoring a buy [14%].
Let's say that caddy adds another configuration. there are now 8 different possible choices...2 of which belong to Caddy, so Caddy now has 2 chances out of 8 possible choices to score a buy [25%]. Let's say caddy adds another configuration for a total of 3 possible choices from caddy. now it has 3 possible chances out of 9 possible buys [33%].
As you can see, all being equal, each extra configuration offered helps increase the chance that they will score a buy.
Lets say now that all entrants offer 2 configurations, EXCEPT for acura, for a total of 13 possible choices. Acura will have a 7% chance of scoring a buy vs. every other automaker's 15% chance to score a buy.
this is basing it on many assumptions...that all the cars are equal. But isn't this more or less true? no one car in this group has a distinct advantage over another...one may be a better value, but another offers better performance, but another has a "badge", etc. And considering the different needs/wants of the different buyers, it can be modeled as "random". and Unless a car has a SEVERE disadvantage that will single it out as a car NOT to buy, then i think Acura/Honda should take some consideration in this.
let's say there are 7 entrants in this category of mid-size lux cars.
let's assume that out of a fixed "pool" of potential consumers, because each consumer will prefer different things and each entrant has its own strengths and weaknesses, no one entrant has any advantage over the other.
[this can actually be considered true to an extent...for every person who will buy a bmw for the badge, there's someone else that'll buy a lexus for reliability, and someone else who will buy the caddy for "patriotism", and there's someone who will buy a car because it's the cheapest, and someone who will buy a car because it's the most expensive, etc.]
with the above in mind, each entrant therefore has a 1 out of 7 chance of scoring a buy [14%].
Let's say that caddy adds another configuration. there are now 8 different possible choices...2 of which belong to Caddy, so Caddy now has 2 chances out of 8 possible choices to score a buy [25%]. Let's say caddy adds another configuration for a total of 3 possible choices from caddy. now it has 3 possible chances out of 9 possible buys [33%].
As you can see, all being equal, each extra configuration offered helps increase the chance that they will score a buy.
Lets say now that all entrants offer 2 configurations, EXCEPT for acura, for a total of 13 possible choices. Acura will have a 7% chance of scoring a buy vs. every other automaker's 15% chance to score a buy.
this is basing it on many assumptions...that all the cars are equal. But isn't this more or less true? no one car in this group has a distinct advantage over another...one may be a better value, but another offers better performance, but another has a "badge", etc. And considering the different needs/wants of the different buyers, it can be modeled as "random". and Unless a car has a SEVERE disadvantage that will single it out as a car NOT to buy, then i think Acura/Honda should take some consideration in this.
02-03-2006, 04:23 PM
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“Well this isn't technically true concerning it's other models until just this very recent generation of cars.” Mrdeeno quote
I think you point out that I misspoke when I said “to date” as I meant and should have said “currently” this is the Acura way. I had a 93 legend coupe that was my all time favorite car before the RL so I remember well those days when the Acura models had different configurations.
“i'm confident that they expected it to do MUCH MUCH better. ….so I don't believe for a minute that anyone at Honda/Acura is satisfied with the RL sales.” Mrdeeno quote
Unless you work for Acura, and I am pretty sure you don’t, you can only speculate about what Acura expected or is satisfied with. The RL sales numbers for the 05 model year seem to disagree with your speculation as they were very close to the design and intention of selling 20,000 RLs that first model year. From Nov 04 through October 05 approximately 18,900 RLs were sold. That’s a pretty close approximation of the 05 model year sales. The data indicates that they sold pretty much what they intended to and I would speculate that they are probably pretty satisfied with that.
The dealers would have liked the cars to sell for closer to msrp for longer so they could maximize their dealer profits but Acura itself seems to have done pretty well.
I think you point out that I misspoke when I said “to date” as I meant and should have said “currently” this is the Acura way. I had a 93 legend coupe that was my all time favorite car before the RL so I remember well those days when the Acura models had different configurations.
“i'm confident that they expected it to do MUCH MUCH better. ….so I don't believe for a minute that anyone at Honda/Acura is satisfied with the RL sales.” Mrdeeno quote
Unless you work for Acura, and I am pretty sure you don’t, you can only speculate about what Acura expected or is satisfied with. The RL sales numbers for the 05 model year seem to disagree with your speculation as they were very close to the design and intention of selling 20,000 RLs that first model year. From Nov 04 through October 05 approximately 18,900 RLs were sold. That’s a pretty close approximation of the 05 model year sales. The data indicates that they sold pretty much what they intended to and I would speculate that they are probably pretty satisfied with that.
The dealers would have liked the cars to sell for closer to msrp for longer so they could maximize their dealer profits but Acura itself seems to have done pretty well.
02-03-2006, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Let me see if I can remember my stats-class to explain this for those math people:
let's say there are 7 entrants in this category of mid-size lux cars.
let's assume that out of a fixed "pool" of potential consumers, because each consumer will prefer different things and each entrant has its own strengths and weaknesses, no one entrant has any advantage over the other.
[this can actually be considered true to an extent...for every person who will buy a bmw for the badge, there's someone else that'll buy a lexus for reliability, and someone else who will buy the caddy for "patriotism", and there's someone who will buy a car because it's the cheapest, and someone who will buy a car because it's the most expensive, etc.]
with the above in mind, each entrant therefore has a 1 out of 7 chance of scoring a buy [14%].
Let's say that caddy adds another configuration. there are now 8 different possible choices...2 of which belong to Caddy, so Caddy now has 2 chances out of 8 possible choices to score a buy [25%]. Let's say caddy adds another configuration for a total of 3 possible choices from caddy. now it has 3 possible chances out of 9 possible buys [33%].
As you can see, all being equal, each extra configuration offered helps increase the chance that they will score a buy.
Lets say now that all entrants offer 2 configurations, EXCEPT for acura, for a total of 13 possible choices. Acura will have a 7% chance of scoring a buy vs. every other automaker's 15% chance to score a buy.
this is basing it on many assumptions...that all the cars are equal. But isn't this more or less true? no one car in this group has a distinct advantage over another...one may be a better value, but another offers better performance, but another has a "badge", etc. And considering the different needs/wants of the different buyers, it can be modeled as "random". and Unless a car has a SEVERE disadvantage that will single it out as a car NOT to buy, then i think Acura/Honda should take some consideration in this.
let's say there are 7 entrants in this category of mid-size lux cars.
let's assume that out of a fixed "pool" of potential consumers, because each consumer will prefer different things and each entrant has its own strengths and weaknesses, no one entrant has any advantage over the other.
[this can actually be considered true to an extent...for every person who will buy a bmw for the badge, there's someone else that'll buy a lexus for reliability, and someone else who will buy the caddy for "patriotism", and there's someone who will buy a car because it's the cheapest, and someone who will buy a car because it's the most expensive, etc.]
with the above in mind, each entrant therefore has a 1 out of 7 chance of scoring a buy [14%].
Let's say that caddy adds another configuration. there are now 8 different possible choices...2 of which belong to Caddy, so Caddy now has 2 chances out of 8 possible choices to score a buy [25%]. Let's say caddy adds another configuration for a total of 3 possible choices from caddy. now it has 3 possible chances out of 9 possible buys [33%].
As you can see, all being equal, each extra configuration offered helps increase the chance that they will score a buy.
Lets say now that all entrants offer 2 configurations, EXCEPT for acura, for a total of 13 possible choices. Acura will have a 7% chance of scoring a buy vs. every other automaker's 15% chance to score a buy.
this is basing it on many assumptions...that all the cars are equal. But isn't this more or less true? no one car in this group has a distinct advantage over another...one may be a better value, but another offers better performance, but another has a "badge", etc. And considering the different needs/wants of the different buyers, it can be modeled as "random". and Unless a car has a SEVERE disadvantage that will single it out as a car NOT to buy, then i think Acura/Honda should take some consideration in this.
We also cannot say that profits are necessarily a pure function of volume for every model of car. It definitely lowers costs to produce a car only one way, in that labor efficiency at the factory increases and probability of mistakes decrease. Perhaps Acura has decided that the single product configuration maximizes their profits by lowering production costs and setting them in the right piece of the market according to their cost structure, even if it means they have slightly less consumers. My point is, every car company is different, and they are making the decisions that maximize their profits. If they do not change, then they are clearly maximizing profits. We will never know what the right thing for Acura to do, because we do not know their costs of production for specific cars. That type of stuff is locked away and guarded to the max. Yes, one can always take the total revenues of a company for one car and divide by number of cars sold, but this does not tell us about costs, it only tells us about revenues. So, none of us, unless we work in Japan for Honda, have any idea about costs and what Acura should do.
Well, that's my two cents anyway. Now my head hurts.
02-03-2006, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hendjaz
Unless you work for Acura, and I am pretty sure you don’t, you can only speculate about what Acura expected or is satisfied with. The RL sales numbers for the 05 model year seem to disagree with your speculation as they were very close to the design and intention of selling 20,000 RLs that first model year. From Nov 04 through October 05 approximately 18,900 RLs were sold. That’s a pretty close approximation of the 05 model year sales. The data indicates that they sold pretty much what they intended to and I would speculate that they are probably pretty satisfied with that.
The dealers would have liked the cars to sell for closer to msrp for longer so they could maximize their dealer profits but Acura itself seems to have done pretty well.
The dealers would have liked the cars to sell for closer to msrp for longer so they could maximize their dealer profits but Acura itself seems to have done pretty well.
If you had a product you designed and produced, what sales target would you set for it? Set it too high and you look bad if you don't make it. Set it too low and then people might wonder why it's so low. You set it between the 2 and hope to exceed that target. I sure HOPE that Acura isn't full of pessimists that expected to reach just the 20k mark.
Looking at it another way, they wanted to sell 20k units in the first model year. They were 1100 short. You think that they are satisfied that they were so close.
I think they are REALLY PISSED OFF that they were sooooo close, but couldn't quite make 20k units, not to mention exceed it. IF what you say about them being satisfied with "ALMOST" reaching their target is true, then they're gonna head down the same road as the big 3...where "ALMOST good enough" is good enough. This is Honda we're talking about, and to them good enough isn't even good enough, so I doubt "ALMOST good enough" is good enough.
02-03-2006, 06:06 PM
#110
Three Wheelin'
Where did you get 20,000 units as a goal?
02-03-2006, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ilas
Mr Deeno, some interesting ideas here, but here are my thoughts. In the limit under this argument, each company would offer infinite options, or at least as many options as consumer types in the market. But market share is never simply a function of only product variation. Your example here also ignores the fact that that there is a certain net benefit for each variation of a product, in that a firm needs to compare the costs of greater product variation with expected revenues. In a semi competitive market like the auto market, it can make sense for companies to differentiate themselves away from others by doing things that are different than competitors (this is a big field of study in economics by the way).
We also cannot say that profits are necessarily a pure function of volume for every model of car. It definitely lowers costs to produce a car only one way, in that labor efficiency at the factory increases and probability of mistakes decrease. Perhaps Acura has decided that the single product configuration maximizes their profits by lowering production costs and setting them in the right piece of the market according to their cost structure, even if it means they have slightly less consumers. My point is, every car company is different, and they are making the decisions that maximize their profits. If they do not change, then they are clearly maximizing profits. We will never know what the right thing for Acura to do, because we do not know their costs of production for specific cars. That type of stuff is locked away and guarded to the max. Yes, one can always take the total revenues of a company for one car and divide by number of cars sold, but this does not tell us about costs, it only tells us about revenues. So, none of us, unless we work in Japan for Honda, have any idea about costs and what Acura should do.
Well, that's my two cents anyway. Now my head hurts.
We also cannot say that profits are necessarily a pure function of volume for every model of car. It definitely lowers costs to produce a car only one way, in that labor efficiency at the factory increases and probability of mistakes decrease. Perhaps Acura has decided that the single product configuration maximizes their profits by lowering production costs and setting them in the right piece of the market according to their cost structure, even if it means they have slightly less consumers. My point is, every car company is different, and they are making the decisions that maximize their profits. If they do not change, then they are clearly maximizing profits. We will never know what the right thing for Acura to do, because we do not know their costs of production for specific cars. That type of stuff is locked away and guarded to the max. Yes, one can always take the total revenues of a company for one car and divide by number of cars sold, but this does not tell us about costs, it only tells us about revenues. So, none of us, unless we work in Japan for Honda, have any idea about costs and what Acura should do.
Well, that's my two cents anyway. Now my head hurts.
02-03-2006, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Where did you get 20,000 units as a goal?
But regardless though...let's say that the goal was 15k in U.S. and they sold 18k in U.S. Then they did meet their goal then.
But then I'll just keep the same argument but apply it to this past Jan. sales. if they sold at least 1000 per month, they would have 12k units. They had 773 units moved in Jan...I'm sure they're POed about that.
02-03-2006, 06:11 PM
#114
Three Wheelin'
There's no doubt that January 2006 was a bad month for the RL. I guess we'll have to see how the car does in February and beyond.
02-03-2006, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
There's no doubt that January 2006 was a bad month for the RL. I guess we'll have to see how the car does in February and beyond.
02-03-2006, 06:38 PM
#116
Originally Posted by Sopadepollo
And the M35X, M35 and M45 have been pitted head-to-head against the RL around a track and won everytime.
Hey psteng19,
I had a great History teacher in high scholl who said" Never make a sweeping comment without being able to back it up" You are WRONG to say the the Infinity M's beat out the Acura RL "everytime". Please go to edmunds.com, click on photos& video, and then click on Comparison test. There were 2 seperate comparison test done and the Acura RL beat the Infinity's on both of them. The Acura was even in first place on the V6, auto tranny, AWD comparison. And on the other Comparison, the V6 Acura RL beat out the V8 powered M 45 sport.
Now I would appreciate an apology (in writing on this forum) on your part regarding your false and baseless sweeping remarks regarding our much loved winner, the Acura RL.
I had a great History teacher in high scholl who said" Never make a sweeping comment without being able to back it up" You are WRONG to say the the Infinity M's beat out the Acura RL "everytime". Please go to edmunds.com, click on photos& video, and then click on Comparison test. There were 2 seperate comparison test done and the Acura RL beat the Infinity's on both of them. The Acura was even in first place on the V6, auto tranny, AWD comparison. And on the other Comparison, the V6 Acura RL beat out the V8 powered M 45 sport.
Now I would appreciate an apology (in writing on this forum) on your part regarding your false and baseless sweeping remarks regarding our much loved winner, the Acura RL.
Read my post over again that you quoted, especially the bolded word. I said the M beats the RL around a track (head to head) everytime.
The person I quoted specifically asked about a track race between the two.
I don't think there's been many races around a track between the two but the few I remember have the M beating the RL (yes, M35 against RL for an apples to apples comparison).
So until you show me otherwise, I would like an apology from YOU.
If you can in fact furnish proof favoring your argument, you will receive a public apology from me.
Thank you.
02-03-2006, 06:39 PM
#117
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I predict Feb. to be a hard month for everyone since it's a short month.
02-03-2006, 06:43 PM
#118
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I predict Feb. to be a hard month for everyone since it's a short month.
Remember, sales are matched up against the same month of the previous year, not the prior month of the current year.
02-03-2006, 07:00 PM
#119
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 130
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Originally Posted by psteng19
Did that great teacher of yours also teach you to read carefully?
Read my post over again that you quoted, especially the bolded word. I said the M beats the RL around a track (head to head) everytime.
The person I quoted specifically asked about a track race between the two.
I don't think there's been many races around a track between the two but the few I remember have the M beating the RL (yes, M35 against RL for an apples to apples comparison).
So until you show me otherwise, I would like an apology from YOU.
If you can in fact furnish proof favoring your argument, you will receive a public apology from me.
Thank you.
Read my post over again that you quoted, especially the bolded word. I said the M beats the RL around a track (head to head) everytime.
The person I quoted specifically asked about a track race between the two.
I don't think there's been many races around a track between the two but the few I remember have the M beating the RL (yes, M35 against RL for an apples to apples comparison).
So until you show me otherwise, I would like an apology from YOU.
If you can in fact furnish proof favoring your argument, you will receive a public apology from me.
Thank you.
Both are responsive cars, and I would be equally happy driving either one...I like Japanese cars and have always had them. I picked the RL, you probably have an M or at least like it better. No problem, because if we were all clones, then we would not have all of these interestingly different cars to pick from.