What will Honda/Acura do?
02-02-2006, 11:27 AM
#41
I can't answer the original question as to what Acura will do about the RL, but I can give you another angle on why the car may not be selling as well as expected.
One of our sales reps in So. Cal drove an '03 RL that was coming off lease last year. I owned an '05 RL at the time and told her she and her husband should really go look at the new one because it was a great car with tons of technology that she could use while traveling around making sales calls. They did go look at the RL but ended up trading for an E350.
When I asked her why, she said "I expected the RL to be a larger car. To me, it doesn't look any larger than the TL. It didn't even feel as substantial as my old RL. That's why we decided on the Mercedes." Now, we all know the RL is larger than most cars in its class, and you can all say she doesn't know what she is talking about, but she is the average consumer. I think the RL is attractive, but the way it is designed it looks smaller and less substantial than many of its competitors. People buying in this class typically want something that looks "impressive". I personally think the E350 is boring, but it does look more "impressive" than the RL.
Re: brand, we all know that Acura doesn't have the luxury brand awareness M-B, BWM, Lexus et al have, but you can't blame success/failure totally on brand. The right car can overcome a brand. Look at the Chrysler 300. How was Chrysler's brand before the 300 was introduced? Infiniti was making a comeback because of the G but was still a relative unknown, yet the M became a sales success as well. Was that due to the brand or the car?
Anyway, I don't know what Acura is going to do about the RL. I agree the RL is a great, well-made car that has been purchased by knowledgeable people. Unfortunately, it just hasn't appealed to a broad enough market. As for why I purchased one originally, the dealer gave me a great trade-in on my '04 TL so I went for it. The M wasn't out yet. I could have certainly been happy with the RL, but I'm happier with the M. To each his own.
One of our sales reps in So. Cal drove an '03 RL that was coming off lease last year. I owned an '05 RL at the time and told her she and her husband should really go look at the new one because it was a great car with tons of technology that she could use while traveling around making sales calls. They did go look at the RL but ended up trading for an E350.
When I asked her why, she said "I expected the RL to be a larger car. To me, it doesn't look any larger than the TL. It didn't even feel as substantial as my old RL. That's why we decided on the Mercedes." Now, we all know the RL is larger than most cars in its class, and you can all say she doesn't know what she is talking about, but she is the average consumer. I think the RL is attractive, but the way it is designed it looks smaller and less substantial than many of its competitors. People buying in this class typically want something that looks "impressive". I personally think the E350 is boring, but it does look more "impressive" than the RL.
Re: brand, we all know that Acura doesn't have the luxury brand awareness M-B, BWM, Lexus et al have, but you can't blame success/failure totally on brand. The right car can overcome a brand. Look at the Chrysler 300. How was Chrysler's brand before the 300 was introduced? Infiniti was making a comeback because of the G but was still a relative unknown, yet the M became a sales success as well. Was that due to the brand or the car?
Anyway, I don't know what Acura is going to do about the RL. I agree the RL is a great, well-made car that has been purchased by knowledgeable people. Unfortunately, it just hasn't appealed to a broad enough market. As for why I purchased one originally, the dealer gave me a great trade-in on my '04 TL so I went for it. The M wasn't out yet. I could have certainly been happy with the RL, but I'm happier with the M. To each his own.
02-02-2006, 11:29 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by hondamore
It's interesting that you know more about building and selling cars than the executives at Honda or Nissan. You are truly a gifted intellect. I can't recall encountering such omniscience in somebody older than 16.
as a CONSUMER and as someone who watches the market, I can see what people want and what people don't want.
it doesn't take a "gifted intellect", as you so well put, to see that the RL's competitors offer MORE, regardless of price.
But i'll concede...the RL is Acura's flagship.
Great! In it's category of mid-size sport-lux sedans, Acura's FLAGSHIP offers LESS than many other makes NON-FLAGSHIPS!!! GO ACURA!!!
02-02-2006, 11:44 AM
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Personal attacks are not warranted here. But the logic that a car has to sell well to be a great automobile is rubbish. Some of the finest automobiles ever designed have been slow sellers for one reason or another. (Carrying the same logic to its extreme, plenty of television shows that are big ratings hits are in reality, near drivel.)
What has to happen for heady sales is that a large percentage of the buying public must perceive a car to be desirable and priced within reason (the higher the price class, the less the latter counts). While Acura has not advertised the RL as smartly as it might, and has not created any tremendous demand for the car in the marketplace (ads about nav-traffic were too esoteric to catch a lot of luxury buyers), it did do something right. It made a tremendous automobile (at least to those of us who recognize it as such). To those who don't, by all means, continue to denigrate it all you want to. (Sticks and stones...)
Certainly car pundits and others have demeaned the latest 5 series BMWs. Many so called "authorities" have called it inferior even to the 5 series it replaces, both in style and performance. Yet it continues to sell extremely well for BMW, even when BMW owners see each other coming and going, day and night. While there is little exclusivity, and even less press enthusiasm for the new model it sells well in large part, because people want to brandish its "upper premium" nameplate. Acura will have to create that same sort of "upper premium" image to sell in larger numbers. (It had that with the "Legend" brand name and threw it all away.) And its current public image isn't pegged much higher than the mid-level occupied by the TL. So Acura has its work cut out for it.
However, to me and a decent number of other car buyers, building a terrific automobile with advanced features was all that we asked of Acura, and the company delivered with the new RL. As for marketing the car, Acura should have focused on a lot more features and refinements than the early "nav-traffic" spots. And only very lately has Acura taken steps with new ads and programs it intends to offer at the regional level (local sponsorships, promotions, etc.) Whether or not any of these catch fire with the buying public is a big unknown.
Acura may, in the end, have to find a feature or option or design element akin to the iPod to re-spark RL sales. Having tossed out all the good will and reputation that the "Legend" moniker had earned the company, Honda corporate may have to infuse the car with some thrilling new aspect to create the same sort of "halo effect" the iPod brought to Apple. That company had a fanatical, but limited, base of fans. And its computers were (and still are) the envy of many in terms of design and features. But it took a bright white little object you can hold in your hand to turn sales around and grow the business. While iPods still stream out the door in droves, sales of Apple's new iMacs and laptops are, to coin a pun, becoming "legend" themselves with more than 100 retail stores doing gangbuster business across the country and now in foreign sites too. Orders for its Intel based laptop are flooding in.
Acura could take a lesson from Apple. It's nice that you can connect an iPod to an RL now, but Acura will have to make the connection with the "home-run" mindset of that device to pull a sales renaissance in the upper luxury market.
What has to happen for heady sales is that a large percentage of the buying public must perceive a car to be desirable and priced within reason (the higher the price class, the less the latter counts). While Acura has not advertised the RL as smartly as it might, and has not created any tremendous demand for the car in the marketplace (ads about nav-traffic were too esoteric to catch a lot of luxury buyers), it did do something right. It made a tremendous automobile (at least to those of us who recognize it as such). To those who don't, by all means, continue to denigrate it all you want to. (Sticks and stones...)
Certainly car pundits and others have demeaned the latest 5 series BMWs. Many so called "authorities" have called it inferior even to the 5 series it replaces, both in style and performance. Yet it continues to sell extremely well for BMW, even when BMW owners see each other coming and going, day and night. While there is little exclusivity, and even less press enthusiasm for the new model it sells well in large part, because people want to brandish its "upper premium" nameplate. Acura will have to create that same sort of "upper premium" image to sell in larger numbers. (It had that with the "Legend" brand name and threw it all away.) And its current public image isn't pegged much higher than the mid-level occupied by the TL. So Acura has its work cut out for it.
However, to me and a decent number of other car buyers, building a terrific automobile with advanced features was all that we asked of Acura, and the company delivered with the new RL. As for marketing the car, Acura should have focused on a lot more features and refinements than the early "nav-traffic" spots. And only very lately has Acura taken steps with new ads and programs it intends to offer at the regional level (local sponsorships, promotions, etc.) Whether or not any of these catch fire with the buying public is a big unknown.
Acura may, in the end, have to find a feature or option or design element akin to the iPod to re-spark RL sales. Having tossed out all the good will and reputation that the "Legend" moniker had earned the company, Honda corporate may have to infuse the car with some thrilling new aspect to create the same sort of "halo effect" the iPod brought to Apple. That company had a fanatical, but limited, base of fans. And its computers were (and still are) the envy of many in terms of design and features. But it took a bright white little object you can hold in your hand to turn sales around and grow the business. While iPods still stream out the door in droves, sales of Apple's new iMacs and laptops are, to coin a pun, becoming "legend" themselves with more than 100 retail stores doing gangbuster business across the country and now in foreign sites too. Orders for its Intel based laptop are flooding in.
Acura could take a lesson from Apple. It's nice that you can connect an iPod to an RL now, but Acura will have to make the connection with the "home-run" mindset of that device to pull a sales renaissance in the upper luxury market.
02-02-2006, 12:03 PM
#44
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DCRL, you are my hero. 
02-02-2006, 12:03 PM
#45
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I'll "try" to get back on topic here as to why the RL sales were so poor last month. You can continue to blow smoke up each other's arses about how great the RL is and you can make personal attacks on me that have NOTHING to do with the discussion/argument, but FACT is that sales for January were POOR! No matter which way you slice it, sales SUCKED!
and Rob L can continue to live in his "imaginary" world where I am a RWD/Infiniti/brand whore, and where he saw my pic on my website when NO pic of me exists on my website, and then MAKE INSULTS ABOUT MY INTELLIGENCE ABOUT THE WAY I LOOK (that's my bro-in-law who lives in TX for your info...let me guesss, you hate black people too? white power, right?).
I already admitted in many many threads prior to this one that the RL is a great car. I test drove one extensively and chose NOT to buy it after test driving the M45. I have my reasons and none of them have anything to do with the badge.
MY theory why RL sales are poor compared to the competition is that they DON'T offer what the competition does.
not only does the competition offer equipment that the RL doesn't, they offer CHOICES to the consumer. A consumer can spend more OR less on the competition, equiping it how he/she sees fit. They CAN'T do that with the RL except for the tech package. as a $50k+ car buyer, I WANTED more choices. so what if the options I choose make it more expensive than the RL? so what if the options I choose make it cheaper than the RL? the fact is I HAD THE CHOICE!
Acura wanted the RL to be a car that appealed to many people which is why they equipped it and priced it ACURA's way. They have to TELL us what is tasteful or appealing rather than let us decide ourselves?
The competition offers many more choices than the RL. The competition realizes your spending $50k+ on a car and appreciates the fact that you're a successful adult (that doesn't make personal attacks) that wants to choose what you want and need in a car.
The RL doesn't give you that distinction. it tells you only what you need and says buy or not.
if the RL is all things to you, GREAT! but reality is that it's falling way behind the competition in this class, so it is not all things to MANY people.
and Rob L can continue to live in his "imaginary" world where I am a RWD/Infiniti/brand whore, and where he saw my pic on my website when NO pic of me exists on my website, and then MAKE INSULTS ABOUT MY INTELLIGENCE ABOUT THE WAY I LOOK (that's my bro-in-law who lives in TX for your info...let me guesss, you hate black people too? white power, right?).
I already admitted in many many threads prior to this one that the RL is a great car. I test drove one extensively and chose NOT to buy it after test driving the M45. I have my reasons and none of them have anything to do with the badge.
MY theory why RL sales are poor compared to the competition is that they DON'T offer what the competition does.
not only does the competition offer equipment that the RL doesn't, they offer CHOICES to the consumer. A consumer can spend more OR less on the competition, equiping it how he/she sees fit. They CAN'T do that with the RL except for the tech package. as a $50k+ car buyer, I WANTED more choices. so what if the options I choose make it more expensive than the RL? so what if the options I choose make it cheaper than the RL? the fact is I HAD THE CHOICE!
Acura wanted the RL to be a car that appealed to many people which is why they equipped it and priced it ACURA's way. They have to TELL us what is tasteful or appealing rather than let us decide ourselves?
The competition offers many more choices than the RL. The competition realizes your spending $50k+ on a car and appreciates the fact that you're a successful adult (that doesn't make personal attacks) that wants to choose what you want and need in a car.
The RL doesn't give you that distinction. it tells you only what you need and says buy or not.
if the RL is all things to you, GREAT! but reality is that it's falling way behind the competition in this class, so it is not all things to MANY people.
02-02-2006, 12:12 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by dseag2
One of our sales reps in So. Cal drove an '03 RL that was coming off lease last year. I owned an '05 RL at the time and told her she and her husband should really go look at the new one because it was a great car with tons of technology that she could use while traveling around making sales calls. They did go look at the RL but ended up trading for an E350.
When I asked her why, she said "I expected the RL to be a larger car. To me, it doesn't look any larger than the TL. It didn't even feel as substantial as my old RL. That's why we decided on the Mercedes." Now, we all know the RL is larger than most cars in its class, and you can all say she doesn't know what she is talking about, but she is the average consumer. I think the RL is attractive, but the way it is designed it looks smaller and less substantial than many of its competitors. People buying in this class typically want something that looks "impressive". I personally think the E350 is boring, but it does look more "impressive" than the RL.
.
When I asked her why, she said "I expected the RL to be a larger car. To me, it doesn't look any larger than the TL. It didn't even feel as substantial as my old RL. That's why we decided on the Mercedes." Now, we all know the RL is larger than most cars in its class, and you can all say she doesn't know what she is talking about, but she is the average consumer. I think the RL is attractive, but the way it is designed it looks smaller and less substantial than many of its competitors. People buying in this class typically want something that looks "impressive". I personally think the E350 is boring, but it does look more "impressive" than the RL.
.
02-02-2006, 12:24 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by DCRL
Personal attacks are not warranted here. But the logic that a car has to sell well to be a great automobile is rubbish. Some of the finest automobiles ever designed have been slow sellers for one reason or another. (Carrying the same logic to its extreme, plenty of television shows that are big ratings hits are in reality, near drivel.)
I don't think I or anyone here posted that the RL is not a great automobile. I admit that it's a great car...one that evidently doesn't sell well.
The discussion is WHY it doesn't sell well, and the only way to discuss WHY IT DOES NOT sell well is to bring up it's shortcomings...whether it is the RL itself or with Acura as a whole.
Doesn't make sense when someone asks, "Why so few sales for the RL?"
and everyone answers, "It's a great car!", does it?
But alas, when the shortcoming of acura or any acura model on this forum, the relative "newbies" start getting defensive.
02-02-2006, 12:45 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by dseag2
I agree the RL is a great, well-made car that has been purchased by knowledgeable people.
Originally Posted by Rob L
Also saw your pics and what you look like...it explains everything and your lack of logic.
02-02-2006, 01:24 PM
#50
The RL/Legend will soon be marketed in numerous continents around the world and maybe that is a major consideration that is being over-looked in this discussion. Other countries have very different opinions than those of us in the USA.
Besides, one of the reasons I like my RL is that everytime I look into the adjacent lane on the freeway I think that the poor guy in the Mercedes is probably on his way to the shop and the Lexus beside the Mecedes is just one of a long line of them.
Besides, one of the reasons I like my RL is that everytime I look into the adjacent lane on the freeway I think that the poor guy in the Mercedes is probably on his way to the shop and the Lexus beside the Mecedes is just one of a long line of them.
02-02-2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hothonda
The M45 Infiniti took a 7.5% sales drop in Jan.'06 vs Jan'05...
02-02-2006, 02:08 PM
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All of the flaming here is making this thread look like a college football board, where rivals show up to slam the host fans. I don't mean any disrespect, but tempers will always flare whenever someone comes to an Acura board and tries to point out problems with an Acura versus an infiniti, etc, etc. It's human nature.
02-02-2006, 02:22 PM
#54
Карты убийцы
Originally Posted by hothonda
I could care less how many RL's Acura sells or doesn't sell...I'm happy with mine!
(BTW they didn't sell many NSX's either and I happy w/my '05 Grand Prix White
also...)
(BTW they didn't sell many NSX's either and I happy w/my '05 Grand Prix White
also...)
For the 1000th time, I told you to stop going to Jiffy Lube for your oil changes. Look at all of those leaks.
02-02-2006, 03:18 PM
#55
Originally Posted by Professor
After I get out my RL everynight, I then drive your old ladies...
02-02-2006, 03:33 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by ilas
All of the flaming here is making this thread look like a college football board, where rivals show up to slam the host fans. I don't mean any disrespect, but tempers will always flare whenever someone comes to an Acura board and tries to point out problems with an Acura versus an infiniti, etc, etc. It's human nature.
And it was started in response to the RL's poor showing this past month.
But maybe that's the problem with corporate Honda/Acura in that it can be compared to this thread...
Some people are so busy blowing smoke up each other's arses and talking about how great the RL is, MAKING SURE to quell all naysayers, even resorting to personal attacks if necessary, that they don't have time to wonder "WHY?" the RL sales sucks so much.
And once they realize that the sales suck, again, instead of asking "WHY?", they make excuses for it, such as "It's making a profit anyway" or "It's a niche seller".
And when non-bias (non-RL owners) chime in with their theories, they're labeled instantly as "Troll", "RWD-whore", "Brand-whore", or my personal favorite: "Dumbass".
The rival didn't just show up and start RL bashing. The rival (me anyway) was here a LONG time before any of the "Acura-apologists" came (uh, Jan. 01 for me vs. Jan. 05 for Rob L in particular).
Again, in order to answer "What will Honda/Acura Do?", you gotta figure out what's wrong in the first place. That's difficult when the rival presents his ideas on what's wrong, and is countered with the comprehensive and thoughtful answer of "Dumbass!"
And to think...that's what got the big-3 in their predicament. When someone told them that they gotta start worrying about Japanese competition, and gave them legitimate explanations for it, the response was, "Those Japs are dumbasses!"
I haven't made any personal attacks in responses to comments made against me (and my brother-in-law). But then again, i don't need to.
Those who choose to continue having discussions as to "Why?" RL sales sucks and "WHAT?" should be done can continue.
But those who want to continue outright IGNORING the fact that sales sucks and continue blowing hot air up each other's asses about how great the RL is, then start a new thread.
And for those that just want to make personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything, start a new thread in ramblings or something, I don't give a fuuck.
02-02-2006, 04:34 PM
#57
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Ride to sporty for a 50k top of the line sedan or maybe is just an acura thing. I know they didn't sale many TL's in 99 when it was newly redesign, specially coming from a not very good seller 98 TL just like the 04 RL.
02-02-2006, 04:56 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
yeah, but look at the name of the thread..."What will Honda/Acura do?"
And once they realize that the sales suck, again, instead of asking "WHY?", they make excuses for it, such as "It's making a profit anyway" or "It's a niche seller".
And once they realize that the sales suck, again, instead of asking "WHY?", they make excuses for it, such as "It's making a profit anyway" or "It's a niche seller".
However, I stand by my statement that the RL is meant to be a niche car. I base that statement on this article:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/autos...ews-nav17.html
Mike Spencer, Acura spokesman, stated a goal of 15,000 units of the 2005 Acura RL. That sounds like a niche to me.
02-02-2006, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Mike Spencer, Acura spokesman, stated a goal of 15,000 units of the 2005 Acura RL. That sounds like a niche to me.
I thought it was 20k?
02-02-2006, 06:14 PM
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Just out of curiousity Deeno, what do you drive? You seem to have a real axe to grind. As indicated in some of the above responses, you've made wild allegations, e.g., lingering at the bottom, that have no basis in fact.
Shamed to admit that I share a hometown with you.
Shamed to admit that I share a hometown with you.
02-02-2006, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
However, I stand by my statement that the RL is meant to be a niche car. I base that statement on this article:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/autos...ews-nav17.html
Mike Spencer, Acura spokesman, stated a goal of 15,000 units of the 2005 Acura RL. That sounds like a niche to me.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/autos...ews-nav17.html
Mike Spencer, Acura spokesman, stated a goal of 15,000 units of the 2005 Acura RL. That sounds like a niche to me.
This is from Merriam-Webster Online:
Main Entry: 1niche
Pronunciation: 'nich, ÷'nEsh
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Middle French, from nicher to nest, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin nidicare, from Latin nidus nest -- more at NEST
1 a : a recess in a wall especially for a statue b : something that resembles a niche
2 a : a place, employment, status, or activity for which a person or thing is best fitted b : a habitat supplying the factors necessary for the existence of an organism or species c : the ecological role of an organism in a community especially in regard to food consumption d : a specialized market
The definition that can be applied in this context is 2d: "a specialized market". And to further clarify what "specialized" is:
Main Entry: specialized
Function: adjective
1 : characterized by or exhibiting biological specialization; especially : highly differentiated especially in a particular direction or for a particular end
2 : designed or fitted for one particular purpose or occupation
I think the 2nd part of 1 fits - "highly differentiated especially in a particular direction or for a particular end." 2 can also apply.
So if you classify the RL a "specialized market" car, then all of its competitors (midsize sporty-lux sedans) would also be part of this "specialized market". If that's the case, then it still doesn't speak well for low sales.
Unless you want to put a positive spin on it...you can say that the RL is in the "specialized market" as the only car that offers only a v6, only awd, and no major options except the tech package. That's not much of a positive spin though, but whatever.
02-02-2006, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Dog
Just out of curiousity Deeno, what do you drive? You seem to have a real axe to grind. As indicated in some of the above responses, you've made wild allegations, e.g., lingering at the bottom, that have no basis in fact.
Shamed to admit that I share a hometown with you.
Shamed to admit that I share a hometown with you.
I drive an infiniti m45 sport.
and what axe am I grinding? I'm not the one walking around calling people dumbass or peabrain. I admit I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses and tell everyone how great the RL is doing because it's just not true.
And you're telling me what i'm telling you has no basis in fact...hmmm
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
02-02-2006, 06:41 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Big Dog
Shamed to admit that I share a hometown with you.
but then again i guess it's easier to make personal attacks like that.
02-02-2006, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
You share a hometown with me? You're in MD? I'm in PA.
I drive an infiniti m45 sport.
and what axe am I grinding? I'm not the one walking around calling people dumbass or peabrain. I admit I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses and tell everyone how great the RL is doing because it's just not true.
And you're telling me what i'm telling you has no basis in fact...hmmm
I'm sorry, it's not lingering at the bottom. it IS at the bottom!
I drive an infiniti m45 sport.
and what axe am I grinding? I'm not the one walking around calling people dumbass or peabrain. I admit I'm not going to blow smoke up people's asses and tell everyone how great the RL is doing because it's just not true.
And you're telling me what i'm telling you has no basis in fact...hmmm
I'm sorry, it's not lingering at the bottom. it IS at the bottom!
One more thing in closing. It would be a cool experiment to put a race car driver in an RL, an M35x, and an M45, and then throw in very winding and wet roads. I bet the times would be closer than some of us think. What the RL and 35 give up in power they would make up in grip.
02-02-2006, 07:10 PM
#65
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I thought it was 20k?
02-02-2006, 07:12 PM
#66
Three Wheelin'
AWD is the RL's niche. If a prospective buyer doesn't understand the benefits of SH-AWD and associates it with hills or snow, then that buyer is not going to consider the RL. That's also why the A6 doesn't sell as well as the lesser-known Infiniti M.
02-02-2006, 07:17 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
AWD is the RL's niche. If a prospective buyer doesn't understand the benefits of SH-AWD and associates it with hills or snow, then that buyer is not going to consider the RL. That's also why the A6 doesn't sell as well as the lesser-known Infiniti M.
Indeed, when stressing over sales, we really need to compare AWD cars with V6s in the same price segment.
jhr, my brother went to UVA and played lacrosse there.......not sure if that's what the 'uva' part of your user name means.
02-02-2006, 07:35 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
Yup, Wahoowa!
02-02-2006, 07:48 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I drive an infiniti m45 sport.
Ugly, ugly. It looks like a cross between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Mondeo.
Cheap looking materials all around the interior
Inferior driver/car interface - especially the Nav system
Inferior handling to the RL
Ugly, ugly.
Oh, did I mention ugly?
I'm listing these so you can understand that this is strictly subjective and that your efforts to diminish or put down our chosen car will go nowhere in this forum. I personally don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars and I suspect most of the other members here feel the same. I bought and thoroughly enjoy my RL for my own personal reasons. I'm sure you don't care what others think about your choice to buy and drive an M45.
What shoud Acura/Honda do about it? Nothing. The RL is perfect!
02-02-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hothonda
I could care less how many RL's Acura sells or doesn't sell...I'm happy with mine!
(BTW they didn't sell many NSX's either and I happy w/my '05 Grand Prix White
also...)
(BTW they didn't sell many NSX's either and I happy w/my '05 Grand Prix White
also...)
02-02-2006, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
The reasons I did not consider getting the Infiniti after looking at it and test driving it are these:
Ugly, ugly. It looks like a cross between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Mondeo.
Cheap looking materials all around the interior
Inferior driver/car interface - especially the Nav system
Inferior handling to the RL
Ugly, ugly.
Oh, did I mention ugly?
I'm listing these so you can understand that this is strictly subjective and that your efforts to diminish or put down our chosen car will go nowhere in this forum. I personally don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars and I suspect most of the other members here feel the same. I bought and thoroughly enjoy my RL for my own personal reasons. I'm sure you don't care what others think about your choice to buy and drive an M45.
What shoud Acura/Honda do about it? Nothing. The RL is perfect!
Ugly, ugly. It looks like a cross between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Mondeo.
Cheap looking materials all around the interior
Inferior driver/car interface - especially the Nav system
Inferior handling to the RL
Ugly, ugly.
Oh, did I mention ugly?
I'm listing these so you can understand that this is strictly subjective and that your efforts to diminish or put down our chosen car will go nowhere in this forum. I personally don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars and I suspect most of the other members here feel the same. I bought and thoroughly enjoy my RL for my own personal reasons. I'm sure you don't care what others think about your choice to buy and drive an M45.
What shoud Acura/Honda do about it? Nothing. The RL is perfect!
Also, I totally second your thoughts about RL bashing. Why do people come to this forum and remind us that they do not like the car we bought. This is a chicken - egg problem. Most of us like the car, and so we are here.....
02-02-2006, 08:04 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
You just have the BEST taste when it comes to cars!!!!
02-02-2006, 08:06 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
I like the M, but it does resemble the Maxima.
02-02-2006, 08:19 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by ilas
Indeed, when stressing over sales, we really need to compare AWD cars with V6s in the same price segment.
My main criticism of Acura in regards to the RL is this: the higher up the price class you go, the more "customization" a buyer wants.
Whether it be AWD, RWD, v6, v8, purple, black, blue, whatever, the more customizable, the better.
It's synonymous with a home theater system. If I was on a budget, I'd get a home-theater-in-a-box from walmart. Not everything is the best for my needs, but overall it's decent. or it can be a totally KICKAZZ home-theater-in-a-box that can rival a customized system and cost less, but it's still "in-a-box" (offers more VALUE).
But if this great "in-a-box" system is the same price as a customized system, one where I can choose different components to BEST meet my needs at or about the same price, which would I go? If the "in-a-box" system met MY needs the best, then I would definitely get it. Unfortunately, it doesn't best meet my needs, so I go customization for at or about the same price.
Same with the RL. EVIDENTLY (for those that say I have no basis in fact, look at the FIRST post of this thread), more people have chosen to go the customization route because 1. it better meets their needs...whether it be RWD, V8, ventilated seats, 19" rims, sports model, etc., the RL did not best meet their needs, and 2. at $50k, most of these BADGE conscious consumers are turned off by an "in-a-box" VALUE system, EVEN if it met all their needs.
And people can bitch and moan all they want about people who buy for a badge or image, but last time I checked these carmakers are in business to sell cars, not to make people less superficial and less image conscious.
02-02-2006, 08:35 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
The reasons I did not consider getting the Infiniti after looking at it and test driving it are these:
Ugly, ugly. It looks like a cross between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Mondeo.
Cheap looking materials all around the interior
Inferior driver/car interface - especially the Nav system
Inferior handling to the RL
Ugly, ugly.
Oh, did I mention ugly?
I'm listing these so you can understand that this is strictly subjective and that your efforts to diminish or put down our chosen car will go nowhere in this forum. I personally don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars and I suspect most of the other members here feel the same. I bought and thoroughly enjoy my RL for my own personal reasons. I'm sure you don't care what others think about your choice to buy and drive an M45.
What shoud Acura/Honda do about it? Nothing. The RL is perfect!
Ugly, ugly. It looks like a cross between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Mondeo.
Cheap looking materials all around the interior
Inferior driver/car interface - especially the Nav system
Inferior handling to the RL
Ugly, ugly.
Oh, did I mention ugly?
I'm listing these so you can understand that this is strictly subjective and that your efforts to diminish or put down our chosen car will go nowhere in this forum. I personally don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars and I suspect most of the other members here feel the same. I bought and thoroughly enjoy my RL for my own personal reasons. I'm sure you don't care what others think about your choice to buy and drive an M45.
What shoud Acura/Honda do about it? Nothing. The RL is perfect!
If you, "personally" don't give a hoot about sales figures or comparisons with other cars, then you have nothing to say in this thread...the VERY VERY FIRST post is a comparison of sales figures with other cars, and the TITLE: "What Will Acura/Honda Do?" is DIRECTLY about the sales figures.
If the RL is everything to you, GREAT! I'm happy for you. If the RL is everything to others, GREAT! PLEEZE OH PLEEZE find where I diminished someone for making a poor choice! NEVER!
Basically what I'm trying to say that many have not been able to comprehend at this point, is that as great as the RL is, it's NOT everything to everyone.
And looking at the sales figures...it's NOT everything to a lot more people than the competition is. And what's subjective about the sales figures? it's a FACT.
02-02-2006, 08:41 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by ilas
I agree, in my mind the entire M line looks like a maxima someone hooked an airpump up to. the RL bashers love to say that the RL looks like an Accord. Great, because I like accords better than maximas! I am glad my RL does not look like a TL, which does not look like a TSX, etc. To me the G and M series of infiniti look too similar.
Also, I totally second your thoughts about RL bashing. Why do people come to this forum and remind us that they do not like the car we bought. This is a chicken - egg problem. Most of us like the car, and so we are here.....
Also, I totally second your thoughts about RL bashing. Why do people come to this forum and remind us that they do not like the car we bought. This is a chicken - egg problem. Most of us like the car, and so we are here.....
We are NOT discussing what cars we like or don't like, that's another thread. we ARE discussing why the RL sales suck. There's nothing "subjective" about the volume of RL sold compared to the competition.
and looking at your join date and post count, do you really want to bring up who "came" to this forum?
02-02-2006, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
You can say that, but where do you draw the line? you can say you want to compare only AWD V6 Black cars if you want too. But reality is that sales aren't normally reported that way and convention is to group the car into categories like mid-size luxury sedans, near-lux sedans, exotics, etc. etc.. And this is most likely done because this is how most people shop for cars, by price classes of similar cars.
My main criticism of Acura in regards to the RL is this: the higher up the price class you go, the more "customization" a buyer wants.
Whether it be AWD, RWD, v6, v8, purple, black, blue, whatever, the more customizable, the better.
It's synonymous with a home theater system. If I was on a budget, I'd get a home-theater-in-a-box from walmart. Not everything is the best for my needs, but overall it's decent. or it can be a totally KICKAZZ home-theater-in-a-box that can rival a customized system and cost less, but it's still "in-a-box" (offers more VALUE).
But if this great "in-a-box" system is the same price as a customized system, one where I can choose different components to BEST meet my needs at or about the same price, which would I go? If the "in-a-box" system met MY needs the best, then I would definitely get it. Unfortunately, it doesn't best meet my needs, so I go customization for at or about the same price.
Same with the RL. EVIDENTLY (for those that say I have no basis in fact, look at the FIRST post of this thread), more people have chosen to go the customization route because 1. it better meets their needs...whether it be RWD, V8, ventilated seats, 19" rims, sports model, etc., the RL did not best meet their needs, and 2. at $50k, most of these BADGE conscious consumers are turned off by an "in-a-box" VALUE system, EVEN if it met all their needs.
And people can bitch and moan all they want about people who buy for a badge or image, but last time I checked these carmakers are in business to sell cars, not to make people less superficial and less image conscious.
My main criticism of Acura in regards to the RL is this: the higher up the price class you go, the more "customization" a buyer wants.
Whether it be AWD, RWD, v6, v8, purple, black, blue, whatever, the more customizable, the better.
It's synonymous with a home theater system. If I was on a budget, I'd get a home-theater-in-a-box from walmart. Not everything is the best for my needs, but overall it's decent. or it can be a totally KICKAZZ home-theater-in-a-box that can rival a customized system and cost less, but it's still "in-a-box" (offers more VALUE).
But if this great "in-a-box" system is the same price as a customized system, one where I can choose different components to BEST meet my needs at or about the same price, which would I go? If the "in-a-box" system met MY needs the best, then I would definitely get it. Unfortunately, it doesn't best meet my needs, so I go customization for at or about the same price.
Same with the RL. EVIDENTLY (for those that say I have no basis in fact, look at the FIRST post of this thread), more people have chosen to go the customization route because 1. it better meets their needs...whether it be RWD, V8, ventilated seats, 19" rims, sports model, etc., the RL did not best meet their needs, and 2. at $50k, most of these BADGE conscious consumers are turned off by an "in-a-box" VALUE system, EVEN if it met all their needs.
And people can bitch and moan all they want about people who buy for a badge or image, but last time I checked these carmakers are in business to sell cars, not to make people less superficial and less image conscious.
I do agree that Acura would have higher sales if they offered other options, like a V8 and RWD. but, again, I also believe that this would be the case not because the RL would be "better," but because these options would attract a different type of consumer than the current RL consumer. For a company, it costs money to offer more options (they have to be developed), so maybe Acura did not want to do it and was happy targeting only a certain kind of consumer. Who knows, none of us were in Tokyo when the decisions were made.
Also, as far as your other comment about join dates, well, that's when I purchased my RL. That's why I am here. I am no less a newbie than you to the RL, because there is not one sitting in your garage, but there is one in my garage.
I'm done with this thread.....it's becoming a waste of time
02-02-2006, 09:05 PM
#78
Originally Posted by ilas
Everyone, I would love to compare sales of the m35x and the RL. If they are close, then it would mean that, at least in consumer's eyes, the RL is not that far off. Does anyone have these? I think that the M35x is Infiniti's real competitor to the RL (it is not the M45). People who would shop for the M35x and the RL would be there due to AWD needs and the desire to buy a Japanese car. That might provide some perspective on these sales volumes. True, Acura is not capturing part of the market that wants RWD and V8s, but perhaps they expected (even wrongly) that the market for Japanese cars with these characteristics is not large. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the new RL development was being discussed.
One more thing in closing. It would be a cool experiment to put a race car driver in an RL, an M35x, and an M45, and then throw in very winding and wet roads. I bet the times would be closer than some of us think. What the RL and 35 give up in power they would make up in grip.
One more thing in closing. It would be a cool experiment to put a race car driver in an RL, an M35x, and an M45, and then throw in very winding and wet roads. I bet the times would be closer than some of us think. What the RL and 35 give up in power they would make up in grip.
Some buy the RL for other criteria, such as price, features, content, aesthetics, overall value, etc., and there was no way getting an RL without AWD.
With the M, 5, E, GS you are given more flexibility. If you want AWD, you can have it; if you don't, there's the RWD model available as well.
And the M35X, M35 and M45 have been pitted head-to-head against the RL around a track and won everytime.
02-02-2006, 09:14 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by ilas
I do agree that Acura would have higher sales if they offered other options, like a V8 and RWD. but, again, I also believe that this would be the case not because the RL would be "better," but because these options would attract a different type of consumer than the current RL consumer. For a company, it costs money to offer more options (they have to be developed), so maybe Acura did not want to do it and was happy targeting only a certain kind of consumer. Who knows, none of us were in Tokyo when the decisions were made.
Also, as far as your other comment about join dates, well, that's when I purchased my RL. That's why I am here. I am no less a newbie than you to the RL, because there is not one sitting in your garage, but there is one in my garage.
I'm done with this thread.....it's becoming a waste of time
I'm done with this thread.....it's becoming a waste of time
Your posts have a lot more merit than many of the others here, and i'm serious about that.
You have your opinions/views, I have mine, and we each back them up without personal attacks. I wish more people who participated in this thread were the same. And I wish more people would keep things in context and quit putting words in my mouth, such as me bashing the RL which I never did.
But again, I guess most of them don't know what they're getting into. THis is a thread about what acura should do about poor RL sales, so it's a given that people are going to talk about the shortcomings of the RL and Acura's shortcomings in regards to the RL.
I said it before and I'll say it again, if there's a problem with RL sales (and basing on the thread title and Jan. sales, there is), touting the virtues of the RL and refusing to accept what others sees as shortcomings doesn't help answer the question.
It's like you (coach) saying, "My football team hasn't won one game yet, what should I do?" and instead of bringing up shortcomings that can be discussed and improved, I say, "The team is great! The team has great uniforms! They have a great coach!" That's what people here have been doing since page 1 of this thread.
02-02-2006, 09:42 PM
#80
Originally Posted by hondamore
Some day you may be capable of abstract thought and understand the role of a flagship - ie. act as a platform to debut new technology and elevate the brand image regardless of sales volume. Daimler Chrysler didn't create the SLR to sell a bunch of them, they used it as a performance flagship to elevate the percieved "sportiness" of the other, large volume models. Other companies have done the same with their luxury models. For example, Nissan made the Infiniti Q series for the same reason as Acura made the RL. The Q is a low volume vehicle for the same reason as the RL, but it is nonetheless an important part of selling the Infiniti brand name to help sell more M's and G's. Their are a lot more consumers who can afford a G35 or a TL or TSX than there are those who can afford an RL or M or Q. So, YES, they did build the RL and the Q in order to sell more TL's and TSX's and more G's and M's.
By the way, over at the Nissan dealerships, you can bet that more than a few salesmen selling Maxima's mention that it is "pretty much the same car as the new M35" but a whole lot cheaper". People like to think that they are getting as much in the car they can afford as they could be getting in a car they can't afford.
By the way, over at the Nissan dealerships, you can bet that more than a few salesmen selling Maxima's mention that it is "pretty much the same car as the new M35" but a whole lot cheaper". People like to think that they are getting as much in the car they can afford as they could be getting in a car they can't afford.
It's just a 4 door mid-lux sedan with sporty intentions and AWD, just like the rest of its competitors.
Yes, with the demise of the NSX, the RL is now the flagship.
They wanted it to elevate the brand image, but most importantly they were looking to gain market share with this car, hence the 20k goal annually.
The Infiniti Q is not a low volume vehicle because it's there to establish the brand name. It's low selling because of poor advertising, poor brand image (at the time), quirky looks and it offered nothing over its competitors.
Infiniti would love nothing more than if it were to sell as well as the LS430.
The G35 is what made Infiniti as desirable as it is today and re-established the Infiniti name.
The NSX was the Acura showcase/niche car. All-aluminum body, lightweight, mid-engine, V6 supercar. I don't think there was anything like it at the time, or even today.