Saintor

It doesn't look good.

taitando

I don't know, seeing as those numbers are coming from another forum. Anyone know how the 1st gen RL did in sales? Probably similar figures?

Habiib

I can't really say what they will do, but I'd think that they may offer more drivetrain configurations (ie hybrid, FWD). I'm still puzzled as to why the RL sales are the way they are. I thought that it my have been priced to high, but if dealers are selling them at discount (according to what I've read on the forums), then shouldn't that help boost sales? I do think that it has a lot to do with the class that it's in. Honda/Acura uses the same approach in the Entry Level luxury segment with regards to offering very few (if any) options. I thought that it would work in this class, but I guess I'm wrong. If you were to compare the RL sales vs. AWD versions of its compeitors, the picture may look a little different.

Steve C

Originally Posted by C&D forum
January 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans:

5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
Never mind what Honda/Acura will do....!!!
I'm anxiously awaiting HondaMore's idiotic dietribe concerning these numbers!
Anyone have the Bentley vs Cavileer sales figures handy to help him put it into perspective for us......?

jhr3uva90

There is no denying that January was a really bad month for the RL. There was a sudden drop in sales. I guess we need to see if January is part of a trend or simply an anomaly. In the meantime, more print advertising can help. In addition, whoever does PR for this car needs to make sure the RL gets mentioned in non-car magazines. However, Acura should NOT offer a FWD version of this car, in my opinion. SH-AWD is the main feature that differentiates the RL from the TL. It might not hurt to have a version of the RL with manual transmission, though.

hondamore

Regardless of the number of RL's that are sold, it is still "doing it's job" for Acura. Every time an Acura salesman sells a TL by saying to the prospective buyer, "other than AWD, it's got all the features of the RL and it costs $50,000", the RL is doing it's job. Every time an Acura salesman sells a TSX by stating that, "it has many of the same features as the $50,000 RL", the RL is doing it's job. I'm guessing that if you look at the numbers, those models are doing very well despite not really offering anything new this year and THAT is in large part a result of being compared to their big brother, the flagship RL.
From an RL owner's standpoint, low sales numbers are a good thing since when I go to sell my RL years from now, there will be very few of them available and that can only help me sell it at a good price. As I've mentioned before, I was in the same situation with my '94 Legend Coupe 6spd - it had very low sales volume but no shortage of people who knew how great a car it was when it came time to sell it 10 years later. The car's only weakness when new was that it wasn't a Lexus and the same situation seems to be happening with the new RL. Like the Legend before it, the RL is loved by anyone who can get past the lack of brand image (snob appeal) long enough to go drive one.

Saintor

I think the messed up with the design. Too small and uninspired styling. This and the fact that the RL jumped in price here (+12000$CAD).

jhr3uva90

1) The 773 sales figure does not include Canada.
2) Unfortunately, low sales are only a good thing for re-sale if it is accompanied with high demand (like with the Acura Legend).

Two things I realized when going to different car dealerships looking at cars: Lexus salespeople generally don't know how to sell true performance cars and Acura salespeople generally don't know how to sell true luxury cars.

That being said, maybe sales of the RL would improve if Acura made the technology package (minus the run-flat tires) standard equipment?

mrdeeno

Doh! Should've gotten that 2 for 1 Daewoo offer when they were still around!

I would've doubled my money by now!

hondamore

Good point on the tech package - I have a feeling we'll see it become standard equipment as part of a mid model refresh next year or '08 (I'm expecting ventilated seats to make their debut in the U.S. at the same time along with headlight washers and a few other goodies).
Regarding the demand for used RL's, my experience has been that the legions of Accord, TSX, Civic, CSX etc. buyers will create a huge demand for used RL's a few years from now. That is, loyal Honda customers who love the RL but simply can't afford one will be lining up to buy used models in a few years. The fellow who bought my Legend was a Honda fanatic who knew more about the car than I did, was upgrading his wife's Accord AND he had already bought a used Legend for himself. He said that he had been wanting a Legend coupe since it was introduced.
Practically every day that I'm out driving my RL, I get a thumbs up sign or a smile and a nod from a Honda/Acura driver acknowledging their affinity for the RL. These are all future used RL buyers.

mrdeeno

And Acura spent all that money in R&D to produce the RL, and spent all that money to produce the RL, so they can boost sales of the TL?

That's the funniest thing i have heard in a long time! What a funny way to put a spin on the RL's misfortunes!

They should've just saved the development and production costs for the RL and kept the last one around...then they can tell the prospective TL owners "The RL's just old but costs more...buy the TL!"

mrdeeno

The difference between the current RL and Legend/Legend Coupe is that the current RL is no Legend.

The Legend was popular while it was being sold here and the coupe was even more popular due to low production numbers but high demand. It's in relatively high demand now because it was the "highmark" of Acura and what made it successful when Acura was first introduced...it was ahead of it's time like the NSX was ahead of it's time. It not only competed in it's segment, it was tops in reliability and quality, which still rings to this time...which is why it's such a popular used car.

But then came the last gen RL, which was adequate but lounged around for years and ended up the bottom of the bottom of its class.

Then the current RL which in its own right is a great car, but when compared to others in its class, again it's only adequate and lingers around near the bottom of its class.

The same can be said for the CL which was a failure. If you're expecting great resale because sales are so low, I got a Phaeton to sell you.

jhr3uva90

Maybe Acura should try the oldest trick in the advertising book: the two-horse race.

Once upon a time, Pepsi did not sell nearly as much as Coke, to the point that Coke didn't consider Pepsi to be any more of a threat than RC Cola and the others. So Pepsi decided that their advertising would consist of them comparing themselves to Coke. . . and winning the comparisons. Nowadays, people generally consider Pepsi and Coke to be the only two cola brands that matter, due mainly to Pepsi's strategy.

I think Acura advertising should create a two-horse race between the RL and the Audi A6. The ads can discuss how the RL is safer than the A6, how the RL has more features than the A6, how SH-AWD is better than Quattro, etc. Then, if the RL happens to outsell the A6 (which shouldn't be all that hard), Acura can declare victory.

msu79gt82

Absolutely NOT true I loved the Legend. I used to own an Acura TL-S; I traded an '01 Acura MDX for an "04 Acura MDX which I STILL own. I love my MDX!!!

I like Acura , have owned Acuras, and still own Acura - I GOT past the brand image AND I test drove the RL several times. Sorry I could not love the RL and believe me I tried. There is a reason that the RL's sales are lagging and I am certain that Acura is not happy about that.

I am thrilled with some of RL technology; e.g. SH-AWD. I really hope its on the next gen MDX. But as great as SH-AWD is that is not enough reason alone for me to buy a car.

1HOT NSX

The RL is a very smart buy for those of us who don't care about the snob appeal and who are informed enough to know of its existence. To buy an RL you need to be informed of all the choices out there including the RL and do what it takes to test drive one. Many, many people decide to buy a new car on a Saturday morning conversation that goes like: Honey, wouldn't you like to get a new car? A _____ (fill in with MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi, etc. but not Acura) would be nice, can we afford one? Partner says, let's go check them out - the rest is history. They drive home a car from that first dealer they went to. We who frequent boards like this one are the exception. People are extremely dumb when it comes to getting a new car - they decide on the brand first and then they go for the test drive and the information on how big the monthly payment is going to be.

If Acura wants to sell a near luxury car in big numbers then they need to become a luxury brand. I think it is too late - there are just too many slamed Integras out there with teenagers at the wheel to make that possible. People will never desire an Acura like they desire a MB, BMW or Lexus. I don't know why Infiniti is doing a better job with the M but I suppose it's the expected exception to the rule.

mikef

The problem is the car, it is overpriced, overweight with too small of a trunk and back seat. Anyone who thinks the RL is misunderstood sounds like the parent of aa drug addicted child. Denial is hard to face. The car is a flop. Even if the technology package were included it would still be too expensive. Acura could fix it and needs to act now.

jhr3uva90

Basically, the RL should have been an SUV. That's what people imagine when they hear AWD.

Anyway, I wonder what Acura's going to do about this situation. I really hope the RL doesn't end up like the CL. If that happens, this car might be my final Acura.

CLsuperhero

Honda/Acura need to advertise more! Change the model name RL because it's too much like the names of CL TL TSX etc. they need to give their cars bold names so people will take notice.

jhr3uva90

Lexus never had "bold names," yet they are the top-selling luxury brand in the U.S. I wonder if Honda even cares what the RL is selling, since the rest of the Hondas and Acuras are doing so well in the U.S.

hondamore

Some day you may be capable of abstract thought and understand the role of a flagship - ie. act as a platform to debut new technology and elevate the brand image regardless of sales volume. Daimler Chrysler didn't create the SLR to sell a bunch of them, they used it as a performance flagship to elevate the percieved "sportiness" of the other, large volume models. Other companies have done the same with their luxury models. For example, Nissan made the Infiniti Q series for the same reason as Acura made the RL. The Q is a low volume vehicle for the same reason as the RL, but it is nonetheless an important part of selling the Infiniti brand name to help sell more M's and G's. Their are a lot more consumers who can afford a G35 or a TL or TSX than there are those who can afford an RL or M or Q. So, YES, they did build the RL and the Q in order to sell more TL's and TSX's and more G's and M's.
By the way, over at the Nissan dealerships, you can bet that more than a few salesmen selling Maxima's mention that it is "pretty much the same car as the new M35" but a whole lot cheaper". People like to think that they are getting as much in the car they can afford as they could be getting in a car they can't afford.

Nocturnal

I don't really give a hootypetoody how many RLs are sold. I'm delighted with mine and enjoy every minute I drive it. When I see one on the road (rare but it happens) it strikes me what a gorgeous car it is. When I walk up to my car I love the poise and dagger/wedge like shape.

Seriously, is there a truly substantial (ie. money) reason to worry about RL sales? I realize it's an important subject for fanboys but that just makes it a fun subject matter, not something important, no?

static808

It is very discouraging to see under 1000 cars sold in a month. This looks to be the same pattern as the previous Infiniti M. That car, looks weird and sold like 20 cars a month, then redesigned and selling very well.

I am sure Acura/Honda are NOT pleased with these results. Their intention was to chip away at the low bearing fruit in the LPS world (Audi A6). Acura for the most part, did that last year, but for 2006, looks like Audi has regained some steam.

The RL won't be discontinued or anything. It might be discounted even more and I am sure there will be a refresh sooner than later.

I can't believe the Infiniti M is soooo popular. I just don't like the look of the car... I guess they found a winning formula.

static808

American Honda Vehicle Sales For January 2006
Month-to-Date Year-to-Date
January January DSR** January January DSR**
2006 2005 % Chg. 2006 2005 % Chg.
Acura Division Total 13,981 13,664 2.3% 13,981 13,664 2.3%
RSX 1,288 1,319 -2.4% 1,288 1,319 -2.4%
CL * 0 1 0 1
TL * 4,868 4,753 2.4% 4,868 4,753 2.4%
TSX 3,204 2,246 42.7% 3,204 2,246 42.7%
RL 773 1,371 -43.6% 773 1,371 -43.6%
NSX 7 17 -58.8% 7 17 -58.8%
MDX * 3,841 3,957 -2.9% 3,841 3,957 -2.9%
Selling Days 24 24 24 24

jhr3uva90

As a Honda shareholder, I have a slight interest in their car sales. In addition, my previous car was an Acura CL Type S. It is difficult to hold on to a car that was very unpopular. Not only did low demand lead to the CL being discontinued, but it makes it harder to get rid of the car later.

Regarding hondamore's comments, I think the term is "halo" car. In this case, the RL is a showcase of what type of technology will eventually be available in all Acuras and possibly the Honda-branded cars as well. I realize that the RL was never meant to be a high-volume car. However, such a sudden drop in sales is disturbing to me.

mrdeeno

sorry to tell you this, but the RL is NO flagship. the NSX was a flagship. The first gen. Legend was a flagship. Just because they nixed the NSX and the RL is now the most expensive model, makes it a flagship by default, but it is not worthy of that title.

The flagship's job is to elevate the BRAND by showcasing new technologies and whatever else. The elevated brand is what sells more cars. Basically, it's bragging about what this certain brand CAN DO and should overeach as far as possible. The first Legend did this by showing that a Japanese make can compete with the Germans. The NSX did this by showing a Japanese make can compete with Ferrari.

What does the RL have that's "raising" the brand? It has AWD...everyone else has this. It has adaptive headlights...everyone else has this. It has a 300hp engine...everyone else has this AND MORE. It has real time traffice...other's have this and it's not what it's cracked up to be anyway.

I can tell you what it DOESN'T have! Acura's "flagship" doesn't have ventilated seats. Acura's "flagship" doesn't have a v8. Acura's "flagship" is based on a fwd. Acura's "flagship" doesn't give you many choices. Acura's "flagship" doesn't have bold styling...etc.

It's a flagship that says, "Acura can't build a sporty rwd sport sedan...Acura can't build a v8...Acura designs are conservative..." It's a flagship that says, "We are just like everyone else...but less!"

It's a poor showing for a flagship. The Inf Q is also a poor showig for a flagship.

Rob L

WTF are you talking about? How is it only adequate compared to the rest of the class and lingers at the bottom? Sweet fock...

Aside from the M, I am still waiting for SOMEONE to show me a more complete car in this category for the same or less price. It is FACT there isn't one.

Anyone who can't see the reason why it is selling low is because of the prestige/brand image dealio is an idiot. The low sales figures has NOTHING to do wiht the actual damn car. If this same fuckin car was a BMW it'd be at the top just like the 5 series is.

Humans....

Rob L

Don't waste your time on him dude. MrDeeno is MrDumbass...

Rob L

How is it overpriced when again, ASIDE FROM THE M35 NO OTHER CAR IN THE CLASS IS CHEAPER WHEN SIMILARILY EQUIPPED?

Yeah it is a flop cuz it doesn't have a gigantic trunk or a Maybach 62 sized back seat. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

It is clear to me anyone who says the car is overpriced hasn't ever driven another damn luxury car and probably is coming from toyota camrys....

Rob L

So in order to be a flagship a car needs to have stuff no other car does? That is the most idiotic thing I have EVER heard concerning cars. Show me what the fuck a 7 series has over competing cars other than a fucked up idrive system and ugly ass end.

Apparently the LS430 isn't the current Lexus flagship because it has NOTHING other cars don't have. Gotcha.

Oh and the RL does have ventilated seats just not there in the U.S.

WHO THE FUCK cares if it is based on a fwd platform when it is CLEAR from driving it the AWD system kicks ass and gives it superb handling? Your lack of intelligence clearly shines through there with your RWD whoring...

Bold styling...yeah all those flagships out there have bold styling. The S class doesn't have bold styling. Neither does the LS430 or Audi A8 or the BMW 7 series excluding the ass end of it. I know it is hard for your pea-sized brain to understand but these are LUXURY SEDANS...they aren't fuggin sport coupes so the styling isn't going to be "bold." There is NO WAY someone can tell me a "flagship" mdoel for a luxury line has bold styling. If they do then their opinion of bold styling greatly differs from mine.

Why would they build a rwd sedan when they built an AWD sedan that can handle amazingly well? Oh I forgot...you are a RWD whore and think RWD is the holy grail of drivetrains yet go ask most real race drivers and they'll tell you AWD is the way to go. Shit, go look at many exotics that are...ALL FUCKING WHEEL DRIVE. Or how about you drive the damn RL and come back and tell me it doesn't have great handling?

Quit being an idiot.




BTW I do think the RL's sales are poor and it is a shame since it is a great car but oh well. I know the figures are more about the name/prestige than the actual car...and I actually have EXEPERIENCE with other luxury cars unlike many here who think the car is overpriced or not good enough.

Rob L

Gah, just peeped your profile and saw you own a M45...figures you'd be spewing forth such useless shit here. Also saw your pics and what you look like...it explains everything and your lack of logic.

Rob L

Just thought of another thing...

you say Legend and NSX were flagships yet they didn't have anything other competitors had which by your logic is what a flagship needs. I find it funny you bring up the Legend as a worthy flagship when at the time it was....V6 and FWD and competitors like the LS400 were V8 and RWD and had better build quality. I LOVE IT when people say shit and contradict themselves.

Oh and you want to know what the RL brings to raise the brand...how about top quality materials and better build quality? Nah, that doesn't matter because those things don't count to you. Oh and it also has the most advanced AWD system on the market too that other comapnies will be COPYING in years to come. I guess that doesn't count because it isn't RWD.

Seems you think the RL would only be a flagship and raise the brand if it drove itself or gave the driver a bj while driving. Seriously, your comment about what a flagship is/needs to be is retarded.

BTW the RL is basically on par with the LS430 (a car I drive almost every other day) in terms of material quality. If that doesn't say something about this "flagship" then I don't know what does...

jhr3uva90

I have to agree with mrdeeno on one point: the Acura RL is NOT a flagship. In fact, I don't think Acura refers to the RL as a "flagship" anywhere in Acura's printed information or website. I don't think an Acura executive has ever referred to it as a flagship in any interview I've read. In my opinion, a flagship sedan needs these factors:

1) Base MSRP starting at around $50,000
2) Full-sized car
3) RWD or AWD
4) At least a V8 engine.

The RL only meets 2 out of my 4 criteria. That doesn't take away from our cars. I enjoy driving an RL every morning. And someday the might be a car that meets all 4 criteria.

Rob L

I went and peeped rear seat legroom figures:

RL- 36.3
M- 37.2 or 36.4 with premium package
5 series- wtf knows cuz BMW's site is crap
E class- 35.6
A6- see 5 series comment
GS- 36.4


Yeah the RL's seat is soooooooooooo small compared to the rest of the class. Gotcha.

I love when people make comments and don't do the research to back them up.

jhr3uva90

I agree that the RL's size are very competitive with its mid-sized competition. I just think that people want the RL to be something that it is not: a full-sized flagship like the Lexus LS or Infiniti Q.

hothonda

I could care less how many RL's Acura sells or doesn't sell...I'm happy with mine!
(BTW they didn't sell many NSX's either and I happy w/my '05 Grand Prix White
also...)

shepsan

I thought when I started reading this thread that it would be an objective discussion. However, what I find is that it is a wimper about "what the RL is not."

My question to those who think so little of the RL is, why in the world did you buy it if it is such a poorly designed car with so little to offer for the money? Didn't you do any research or comparisons with other so-called luxury brands before you spent you money?

I like my RL. I like the way it looks. I like the way it drives. I enjoy its bells and whistles. My 2005 RL equipped as it is, cost me a lot less than those basic V8's made by the Germans or by Lexus. And, if I added the options to those cars that I have in my RL, the difference would be even greater.

I really don't care that Acura sales are less then other brands. And, my vanity is increased by the fact tht I do not see many RL's on the road because it makes my car all the more unique in my area.

I sugguest that you who find the RL lacking in so many ways as the other brands, simply sell you RL and buy that car of your dreams (for the same money?).

mrdeeno

It is only adequate because many, if not all, in this class offer at least what the RL offers, but also MUCH MORE!!!

Uh, i never said anything about PRICE so I dont know where you're pulling that from.

FACT: It lingers at the bottom of the class in SALES!

mrdeeno

All quotes by Rob L:


Personal attacks by me: NONE
Personal attacks by Rob L: Big 6!!!

Note to Rob L: your personal attacks don't make your arguments any more persuasive.

Note to Rob L: You saw my pics and therefore my LOOKS explain my lack of logic? uhh, dude, I JUST CHECKED...THERE ARE NOOOOO PICS OF ME ON THE MY SITE!!!

ilas

AMEN to this! I have a theory that most RL bashers don't own one, and they may not have even ever driven one. I am totally at peace with my 06 RL. I test drove several times the BMW 530xi, the E class 4 matic 320, and the Audi A6 on both the highway and a small hilly and winding road right by the dealerships; I live in the mountains, so this is a perfect place to compare handling. Curiously there are no infiniti and lexus dealers within 150 miles of where I live (yet we have Porsche and Jaguar dealers), so those choices were moot.

Honestly, these are all great cars. You can say what you want about the RL being a whale (I have seen that said on several sites) and being slow, and not having a V8, etc, etc. however, when one compares the RL to its (REAL) competitors, i.e., awd luxury cars with V6 engines, I'm sorry but they are all close in performance and size (yes, size also!... I took my family along on these test drives and had to fit a car seat in each test car, along with my wife and 17 year old 6 foot kid sitting in the backseat. No one car stood out as large compared to others. They are all quite similar. Further, since I am on a roll, the prices of the other cars were at least 8K greater than the RL once I added the stuff I wanted. So, count me in the category of someone who thought the RL was better than the mighty german cars. People's fascination with bmw and merecedes as status symbols continues to confuse me. Perhaps I feel this way because I am a college professor, and this type of stuff has never entered my preferences. I want a car because I like it, and not to impress anyone. That said, everyone who has seen my car raves about how cool it looks.

Oh, one more thing. Acura is making business decisions. They obviously did a cost benefit analysis for developing a V8 and decided not to do it. Further, Acura and Honda, last time I looked, were doing pretty well from a profitability standpoint. So, they are obviously making the right decisions for the company. I highly doubt a V8 would push sales to the stratosphere, and the cost to develop a big time flagship car is very high and fits only a niche segment of the market. One question of developing a high cost-of-development flagship is whether demand for all of the company's vehicles will be responsive to this flagship being developed. This demand response would need to be compared to the one that would follow simply by better (costly) advertising for existing cars in the Acura stable. Well, I am sure the company has economists studying these issues, and they made the decision to go with the RL the way it is. If anything, Acura probably underpriced the TL, as it is always mentioned as a great bargain. Perhaps Honda's revenues would increase if the price was raised a bit? (compare it to a similarly equipped 3 series or C class). Most people go for the TL because it costs less and they have the impression that it has all of the qualities that make Acura an Acura.

OK, I'm done ranting.

hondamore

It's interesting that you know more about building and selling cars than the executives at Honda or Nissan. You are truly a gifted intellect. I can't recall encountering such omniscience in somebody older than 16.