Logic717

So I take my 00' TLP to get serviced today and take that opportunity to test drive a 07 TL Type S and a 08 RL tech. The test drive solidified it for me. The RL is going to be my next purchase, probably an off lease 06 next summer.

I told the salesman upfront... I will NOT be making any deals today and on about 4 separate occasions, he tried to find my 'button' all of which were refused. I told him, I'd like to just get some numbers to just get a ball park idea of what I should expect when I'm ready.

I basically wanted to go through a mock buying experience. So there was a certified 05 RL on the lot with about 35k miles. I asked him to run the numbers on that car using my TLP as a trade in. This MOFO came back with a retail price of 37,800 on the 05 RL, and said he was giving me a deal by selling it to me for 33k and offering me 3k for my car. I and said thanks for your time. Then I told him that I could go through my auto broker, who could get me the same car without the acura cert. for 27k out the door. He proceeded to go into the spiel about Acura certified and the 100k warranty... I told him, I could put the savings towards any repairs, and I would feel confident that it wouldn't come up to 6k difference he was trying to rip me a new one with. Since everything was hypothetical I was expecting at least something aggressive and reasonably close to what I'd seen on the internet.

I was so put off by this guy and as a result, that dealership gives me a bad taste. I'd go straight to the sales manager next time to cut the crap. My point in sharing this is to point out the inconsistencies in sales experiences. Acura really needs to get a hold of these guys.

For the record, he didn't like the 09 re-design either, but is withholding judgment until he sees the car in person.

Auto broker here I come! Well in a year and a half

neuronbob

$37800 for a 2005 with 35k miles? I would've walked away as well.

Well, we will welcome you whenever you purchase.

Logic717

What you trying to say bob, I'm not welcome until then? J/K .

johnnykuz

Paid 30K for my 2005 w/ 38K miles last october.

dwboston

Maybe the sales guy intentionally gave you high #'s because you kept insisting that you weren't buying today yet still wanted to go through the whole exercise as if you were. Just a thought.

black label

That's what I'm thinking.

You have to look at the big picture here. The salesman is doing his job by showing you both vehicles, you are a potential buyer in the relatively near future and you are trying to narrow down your choices.

When it comes to you wanting to do a "mock purchase experience" your wasting a commissioned sales persons time, he's there to earn a living and you're being very honest with him that you aren't going to help him pay his bills this month. Come back when you are ready to buy a car and he will work a lot harder to put a deal together for you.

The numbers you are looking at today aren't relevant next summer, your trade will have more miles and the RL will exist as a (poorly) redesigned car. Anytime a model gets the a major exterior refresh, it immediately affects the value of the previous stylings so who knows what a 06 will be selling for.

White92

What if he said 25K? Would you have bought it then? What if it was 20 bucks?

Salesman are on commision. Their time is their money. You already said you weren't buying anything until the summer time. He shouldn't have even taken you on a test drive if you had no intention of buying anything. What does it matter what the price is if you aren't going to buy it? Your TL isn't going to be worth the same now as in this summer.

You say you told him on 4 different occasions that you weren't going to buy. He still took his time to help you. You are upset with this? What if you told him that you weren't going to buy and he politely directed you towards the showroom floor cars to look at and left it at that? You'd probably be posting on here that you're upset he didn't help you.

I think people's ideas about salespeople are sometimes BS. Sure there are alot of bad salespeople out there. But there are alot of good salespeople as well. What if you needed some dental work done? You go to Dr A who tells you he can do it today for $4,000. You become upset and tell him you aren't looking to get it done for 6 months and besides a friend of a friend, Dr B could probably do it for $3,000. You then leave without paying for the appointment. It's the same thing!

Logic717

I completely understand the point that he is a commissioned sales person, but there were no customers visiting the entire time I was there. I thanked him for the time spent showing me both cars. I even told him on several occasions that if he needed to leave, that would be fine. What I was doing was trying to determine if this guy was taking me seriously or not. He went to his sales manager and held me hostage at the desk twice for about 10 minutes each time. He had plenty of opportunity to come up with some real numbers. 33k was an insult. Plus he told me it was worth 37,800... I'm pretty sure that's not the way to treat a future potential sale.

If he had said 25k, then I would have certainly had him at the top of my list of people to talk to when I was ready to purchase. Then I would know that he was serious about dealing.

Compared to my purchase of a 2008 Pilot for my wife, where I spoke with the internet sales manager the entire time and his first offer was by far the best offer I got. I turned in my lease 2 months early simply because the deal was that good. Left the dealer I bought the 2006 Pilot from even though they offered to match the deal. THAT salesman was stellar.

White92

So you wanted "real" numbers on a hypothetical purchase?

dwboston

I think I understand where you are coming from but I can't think of a car salesman who will give you firm numbers today for a purchase months down the line (or one that may never happen). Whether you realized it or not, you wasted his time. If you had said you were willing to buy today provided the deal was right, you may have found numbers closer to what you expected.

Logic717

I just wanted him to give me a ball park idea... but I hear the point being made about wasting his time... I agree that ultimately it was a waste of his time. No question about that. I still don't think that justified completely dismissing my inquiry, especially when there were no other customers, but, point taken.

Mike_TX

What's a "TLP"?

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geronimomoe

What the sales guy and manager did was put a bad taste in his mouth, simple.

The sales person/manager could have simply come up with a realistic figure and add a caveat, saying that the price could change as he doesn't know what the future will hold. Simple. When I go into a car dealership, if I tell them I'm just looking, they can leave me alone or help me if I ask a question. If I ask a question, and I tell them I'm not going to buy then, they can minimize the time wasted by cutting straight to the chase..

Now, he lost a sale....

dwboston

When the previous-generation TL Type S came out (either 2002 or 2003), Acura starting calling the regular TL a TL-P (for TL Premium). Nothing changed about it, just the designation on the window sticker.

Logic717

Why the hell couldn't I say this so eloquently? This is what I was trying to say, but I do understand that by just asking for a quote, I wasted his time. I definitely thing that argument was valid. Had he treated me well, I would have been a lead so it wouldn't have been a complete waste of time.

So is the feeling that this treatment would be consistent if I were to go to another Acura dealer or even another sales person? I would think that the pressure to buy would be the same or similar, but, if that sales person had no customers in store, and a service customer asked them for a quote for future reference, you guys think that service customer would be brushed off?

By the way, here is a link to the broker I usually work with. The price of this RL isn't bad at all if the CARFAX checks out. Every car I buy, I get the independent roaming mechanic to do the full inspection.

dwboston

The scenario presented in the previous post isn't what you did. You didn't just walk in, make it clear you were just browsing, and get a quote. You test drove a car and sat down to talk numbers, apparently making it clear the whole time that you weren't serious about buying that day. I think it's extremely naive to expect that you would get actual numbers from any salesman under those circumstances. You would probably get better info from KBB or Edmunds. Why would you think they would give you firm numbers? In the hope that you might come back several months later and buy a car? They're worried about selling cars this month, not several months from now. They probably thought you would just use the info to go somewhere else. I'm as leery of car dealers as anyone, but I never walk in, test drive, and sit down to talk numbers unless I'm serious.

Logic717

I took my car in for service, the service advisor brought me to the sales person, and I told him that I wanted to see the cars not test drive. He offered to take me on a test drive because he had nothing better to do. He tried several times to feel me out about making a purchase, each time I told him I was not ready to do so. I wasn't looking for firm numbers, I specifically stated ball park numbers is what I was after. I was curious what they would be asking for the 05 from that dealer and specifically how aggressive this salesperson was gonna be with pricing. I knew the prices from cars.com and autotrader for an 05.

He knew i was there getting my car worked on and was interested in seeing what the newer vehicles were like. I did not mis-lead him or ask for the test drive. If its niave of me to get a quote, then so be it, but he could just have easliy have said no, I'm sorry I don't have time and I would have been fine with that. I'm guessing you feel that most dealers would have done the same thing. I suppose I'm not missing anything by buying my car from a broker then. Never had that happen with my broker.

White92

You could start off by not calling the salesperson a "MOFO" in your first post.

White92

If this is true, then that changes things a little. You didn't mention any of this in your first post though. Details man, we need details.

larrynimmo

Guys, this is America...first and foremost, we have the right to buy or not to buy. Before I buy a can, I go in a dealership and look at the car and I make it clear that I am not going to buy today. Recently I went to a dealership (before I bought the RL) and went in the dealership just to look and shop. I was 95% sure I was buying a Lexus ES350, but I wanted a close up front look at an RL. I had 0% interest in buying the RL. The salesman told me I had to test drive the vehicle. He darn near begged me to do it. In the end I complied partly because my interest increased. At the end, I had one of good guy bad guy meeting with the salesmanager looking for me to put an offer on the table. I did play with them. From reading on the forums, I knew what I could get the car for. I wrote a binding offer for 37k (but I didn't really want a silver car, but 37k, it works). They offered 38k and wouldn't budge, and I wouldn't budge. They thought I would change my mind. Who are they kidding, I left the dealership telling them I was buying the Lexus ES-350. A week later I bought the RL and a different dealership in the white color (which I wanted) for 38k.

I don't feel I wasted anyones time. When I do my early shopping, I may not be willing to buy, but you can twist my arm. There are a lot of people like me out there. Blow me away with a deal and I will ride. As I get ready to make a purchase, my pricing gets more realistic and is in the range that gets the documents signed.

lumpulus

Why all this sympathy for salesdroids? They are speedbumps on the way to the sales manager. They are there to take as much of your money as possible and will smile and shake your hand as they screw you out of more than you need to pay.

If you're not on your game they will sell you paint sealer you don't need, accessories you can get thrown in the deal for free if you have any smarts at all, $200 pin stripes, etc.

So who cares if you waste his time or didn't? I don't.

White92

Oh I don't know. Maybe his wife, kids...... I think that shows a great disrespect. That's a pretty shallow comment. Everybody needs a job. Even the people working the drive-thru at McDonalds are trying to support themselves or someone else.

Chas2

Thanks for that. I was going to ask the same question Mike did!

lumpulus

The people working at the drive thru have my respect, because they don't try to screw you out of getting ketchup on your Cheeseburger, or fight you for extra pickles.

Logic717

LMAO, this thread is getting hillarious.

So things may have been moved up a bit. In July I turn 30 and today I kinda just hinted at maybe wanting to get an 05 for my birthday rather than waiting next year to get the 06. There is a strong chance that I'll be pulling the trigger on an low mileage 05 or if I'm lucky an 06. If I get the green light, I'll create a new thread detailing my experience and asking for opinions on pricing. Wish me luck!

The 05 in my earlier link with 11k miles is probably too expensive (may 29k out the door)as I know I can probably get one from this guy with about 35k miles for about 27k out the door. My commute is 10 miles a day which includes two round trips to pick up my daughter from daycare. Mileage is not an issue.

Rob L

I don't think you were in the wrong or wasted the guys time and that you got what you deserved. It is pretty simple to me that because of his bullshit price he gave you that you will not want to deal with him again. HE screwed himself out of potential money.

These replies sympathizing with him are IMO ridiculous. I work in a commish based industry and sometimes you have to spend time even if you don't get some cash right away for FUTURE CASH and THAT is exactly what this guy was doing. WE HAVE SPENT TIME ON POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS WHO NEVER PANNED OUT but we did it for the sake of the potential of future business, even if at the time they implied they weren't ready to make a move.
It isn't like the OP is going to need to test drive the fuggin car again when he is ready to buy so THIS WAS THE TIME THE SALES GUY WOULD HAVE SPENT IN THE FUTURE.

Being in a commish based business doesn't mean people should just get insta-thousands.

Anyway, this sales guy screwed himself and he, and only he, is to blame for the lost sale he seems he would have got in the future. The sympathy for him here is mind boggling...and like lumpulus said, it isn't like car salespeople are the most honest and moral people out there and their job is to rip you off.

dwboston

I'm not sympathizing with the salesguy, just pointing out why the OP didn't get a firm price for a hypothetical sale months down the road, or possibly never. And that he's incredibly naive to have expected the same price he likely would have gotten from a real negotiation had he been ready to buy immediately.

gavine

I think the salesman should have done the exact opposite of what he did. If someone tells you they're not buying today, then give them a very low price to make a statement. That way, when he does decide to buy, he'll think of you as a good deal maker. When the buyer comes-back 6 months later, the deal is null and void but at least he came back.

I realize they're looking to sell cars right now, but in sales, you have to keep the funnel filled with potential buyers who have looked but didn't buy yet.

On the other hand, if someone says they're buying TODAY, then you give them a high price and work down from there.

I've never sold cars before (I sell computers now), but that's the way I think it should have been handled.

black label

So what you're saying is the salesman should have low balled him since he knew he wasn't buying today? That makes no sense, many of the people on this board complain that all saleman are liars and cheats and you are encouraging it.

Taking the guy for a test drive and showing him the car isn't wasting a salemans time (and I don't think any one here implied that it was). Asking him to negotiate a deal that you have no intention of taking is.

"Let's negotiate a deal on a car that will have been sold 14 months before I am ready to buy," that is essentially what you said to him. Would your have a realtor show you houses 1.5 years before you are ready to buy? Do you think those houses will still be available when you are ready to pull the trigger? Do you think the market will be exactly the same?

Going on the test drives to determine what car he wants, well thats part of the salesmans job. At the point the OP decided he wanted to put numbers together on a car he wasn't buying, that's when he started wasting the salesmans time.

Logic717

So in anticipation of making a purchase around July (if I can convince my wife) I decided to give the guy I've bought 3 cars with in the past a call.

Straight off the top, he said he can get me an off lease RL with under 30k miles for 27,900 +tax. I'm sure I could probably talk him down to 27k out the door. I told him, I was looking for something closer to 25k +tax, he said, just wait until April/May and that should definitely be easier to get (as more cars come off lease) he said the availability is definitely out there.

I told him, I'm thinking of July since to avoid paying ad valorem on the new car for this year. He said that's a good idea and that 25k +tax should be easy to find at that time. This is what I'm talking about... this is why I keep coming back to him. He even tried to talk me into an LS 430 lmao.

This guy is moving 150 - 200 cars a month and will get any car you want for 1000 over cost.

CL6

You're not buying for over a year but are "surprised" you didn't get a good offer today?

You pretended to buy a car and he pretended to sell you one.

Logic717

Ok, I see you are a little late to the party, but still had to chime in. Thanks for your opinion.

By the way, he pretended to loose a future deal by his actions. That was my bottom line.

TampaRLX-SH

I guess that better than buying a pretend car.

CL6

In a perfect world, you'd be right but, in reality, a year from now, you'd be buying the car from someone else anyway because one person in 1,000 would remember the name of the salesperson for a year and return to that dealership, ask for him or her, and buy a car from them so I don't think he pretended to 'loose' anything.

Here are my !

Logic717

I'll be going to that dealership for my routine maintenance... I'm sure we would bump into each other over the span of a year. Especially if I went to look for him each time. Thanks for your

black label

Good point and well said.

CL6

Sounds like wishful thinking; you're better than 999 other people I guess so props to you.

lumpulus

Gee what a surprise...one backs up the other.

I have a drawer at home full of business cards from salesdroids over the years, and at the dealership I go to to get my car serviced..there is only one guy in the sales department I see that has been there longer than a few months, and I think he's the owner's brother.

As I've said in the past...you want to make money on some other sucker, go for it....just don't expect us all to roll over.

TampaRLX-SH

In all fairness, I would agree there is no shortage of sleazy dealerships, or salespeople - and that includes Acura. I walked from one local Acura dealer to the one I now use and even agreed to pay more simply because of the integrity and manner in which I was treated. It has paid off in dividends with my dealership as I have developed some trust not only in sales transactions, but in service performed on my RL.

However, it is truly the buyer's responsibility to seek out a representative they wish to do business with. Any dealership will gladly offer an alternate if you are unhappy with the salesrep you are initially paired with. If not, simply go elsewhere. But I think it is also wise to act professional if you expect professional salesmanship. Arrogance or a chip will likely start things off on the wrong foot for both parties. We live in a world today where courtesy and consideration are not cool and often preyed upon as weakness. It easy to be a gangster, and it seems everone idolizes gangsters , but it sets a tone that is difficult to overcome once deployed. Have the courage to be decent, be bigger than those who behave poorly and be prepared to walk if that is not how you do business. But if you dish it, don't whine when it is retuned to you.

That said, I am grateful for the Acura salesreps and technicians on this board. Many have affirmed or qualified what often is speculation of the postings members make here. I may not always agree with the opinions, and often in the delivery of those opinions, but I am greatful for those salesreps and technicians who continue to engage in our dialogue of the RL and Acura products.

black label

I've been at the same place for over 3 years and my closest relative lives in Nevada.

[/QUOTE]As I've said in the past...you want to make money on some other sucker, go for it....just don't expect us all to roll over. [/QUOTE]
I don't put it as eloquently as you, but yeah that's my job. If I have an opportunity to make a nice profit on a deal I do, if I have an opportunity to make a deal that doesn't lose too much money, well I'll do that too. That's what sales is all about, just because 1 person comes in and negotiates a low price on a car doesn't mean that we just give that price up to every one when they walk in. Profit is not a dirty word, the point of having a business is to make money.

It's a delicate balance and you should be glad that there are people who "roll over". The people who pay more are the ones who make it possible for you to pay less. You can't give them all away just like you can't sell them all at MSRP.