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A while back I posted that I thought the front axles were going out. Turns out they are in great condition at 160,000 miles. What is bad is the center support bearing on the drive shaft. (list is $2230)
I took it to the dealer for a diagnosis and had a multitude of problems diagnosed...side motor mount, power belt tensioner and a good look over underneath.
The side motor mount is going out ($198), the power steering pump is whining ($816), and the tensioner is showing wear ($199).
I added up the cost of parts to a total list price of $3500 round numbers. A source on line Acura dealer for discounts brought the price down to $2615 not including any shipping charges. Any parts that can be substituted?
I have a couple requests out for a better price. Who gives the best discounts for a large order like this?
what is wrong with the center support bearing? Is it just whining? There are tons of threads discussing a whiny bearing, but none that I have seen discussing what happens beyond whining.
Sorry, I couldnt help you with the pricing.
Take a look at Rockauto.com. They have 4 power steering pump options (remanufacturers/repairs) for less than $250.
You could also try places like Autozone or O'Rielly's for simple things like a power steering pump or tensioner. XLR8 is a board sponsor that carries our mounts, but they are more harsh than stock. I don't think you have an option for the shaft other than OEM.
I was thinking that the drive shaft is a OEM part and you just try to get it at the best price you can, hoping someone will want to get one off the shelf. I was thinking of RockAuto as place to go look.
It does pay to do your home work. Monday is the time to pick up the phone, see who has the drive shaft and get it out here to install asap. If I could take it out and still drive the car I would, but I won't do that. Rock Auto had the tensioner and power belt. As to the power steering pump, I am going to go with new rather than rebuilt. I just have to figure out the motor mount if it is solid or fluid filled. What I saw on RockAuto didn't look like the same part.
Thank you guys for your support. I will report back what happens this week on what I chose to do.
Here is an update to the problem in the drive shaft with my 2006RL. The dealer I took it to diagnosed the problem as the center support bearing. I ordered the new drive shaft from Acurapartswarehouse.com ($1700)
Let me say that I called them, they could get me the driveshaft, and they were in California, so I didn't have to deal with the winter snows back east. I ordered the shaft on line, and they called me to confirm the order. The part was shipped the next day, and two days later it is on my doorstep.
I pulled the shaft and reinstalled the new one in about an hour. Next time I do one of these I will be half that time. Mileage...160,000 miles.
The old carbon fiber drive shaft is out. The center support is perfect. The rear u-joint is shot. I couldn't have driven on it much longer. The parts catalog shows no replacement for the u-joint and only a complete driveshaft.
I will take the drive shaft to a local shop that rebuilds drive shafts and see if they can come up with a new replacement. I will either sell the rebuilt shaft or put it on the shelf for when the next one goes out.
I still have a noise that I need to diagnose further that still sounds like a bad bearing. It might be the tensioner, power steering pump or both. My take on this is that it sounds like rear wheel bearings.
Any time your car goes into a dealer ship for diagnostics it will cost you the going shop rate. Being that the RL has AWD you cannot put it on jack stands unless you take all 4 wheels off the ground. The dealer checked my motor mounts, power belt tensioner, and to diagnose the drive line noise. It turns out that it wasn't the front axles but the drive shaft. The tech said it was the center support, and as I posted, it was the rear u-joint. Either way the drive shaft HAD to be replaced. I could not have driven much longer with out the u-joint disintegrating. The cost was worth it. I probably could have taken the inner fender liner off and got the answers I was looking for, I just chose to have someone else do it.
As to the power steering pump, I am going to let the dealer do the repair, I am not going to get in there and get fluid everywhere. It is a messy job. They can replace the tensioner at the same time and a new power belt.
Any time your car goes into a dealer ship for diagnostics it will cost you the going shop rate. Being that the RL has AWD you cannot put it on jack stands unless you take all 4 wheels off the ground.
Originally Posted by oo7spy
Originally Posted by alfadoctor
Being that the RL has AWD you cannot put it on jack stands and run the car in drive unless you take all 4 wheels off the ground.
Update...the car has been so reliable to this point of 160,000 miles that it now seems like I am going to have a run of repairs. Most of which, fortunately I can do.
After installing the new drive shaft, the wife comes home today and says the noise is still there I can hear it. So later we make a run to town and yep, it is still there about 45-55 mph very pronounced. The wife said it sounds like it is coming from over on her side. I said that is probably either the tensioner or the power steering pump the dealer said was making noise. I said I would pull the belt when we got home and check it out.
I pulled the covers off the engine, pulled and moved to the side the power steering canister, and took my tool and dropped the belt off the tensioner. The top bearing was wobbly and the lower one had some play in it. The top bearing was making noise when I spun it by hand. It was shot. The seals were intact but the internals were gone. Not much life left in that item.
I checked my online sources and it was $145 for the entire assembly at my cheapest resource. I called Napa locally and they had two in stock. (now they have one). Came home pulled the two bolts out that hold it in place. (be sure you take pictures or draw how the power belt goes around the pulleys, as you can run it two ways-one way will never get your belt on and the other will just slip right on. You take it out the top and you put it back in the same way.
You will need a good 14 mm short socket, a long bar to put it on, a 12 mm with a short extension to get the lower bolt out. The 14 socket on a long bar will take the tension off the belt, then you just have to remove it and re-install it. It isn't hard, just know that the tensioner has a big spring you have to over come to get the belt off and back on.
The long bolt and bearing must be installed from under the car. It is a pia to get the bolt in with the bearing. Once you get the bolt in, maneuver the tensioner in to place. Start the long bolt a couple of turns, then install the lower bolt, finish by tightening the long bolt. Reinstall the drive belt and your done after you put everything back on.
What I haven't figured out is where all those cheap *ss plastic clips went. There are all kinds of holes where they "used to be." Even the top holes are empty for the frontal piece over the radiator.
It was dark when I finished but driving it into the garage it sounded like a new car again. So that must have been the noise we heard. I will know when we go to town tomorrow if the noise has been resolved.
Reminds me of a soap opera, as the world turns so goes the on going saga of my noise in the drive line.
First, did replacing the drive shaft fix a problem...definitely yes. Can the drive shaft be rebuilt, no because of the way the u-joints are built.
Second, did replacing the power belt tensioner assembly fix a problem, definitely yes. The car is a lot quieter at idle.
Those two fixes are putting the reliability factor back into the car. Cost so far is $1800.
Has the drive line noise gone away...No! Between 45 and 55 mph, the noise is very pronounced. It sounds like bad bearings as it is a "oscillating" sound that goes up down in intensity very quickly like a bad bearing going around. It does not make the noise when you are in park and run the engine up over 3000 rpm. So it is not engine related which would rule out a bearing in the timing belt, or the power steering pump.
Here is my take on it, once we have removed the other sounds we can now pin point the problem. It is in the drive line which would include any of the following items:
a...drive axles
b...spindle bearings
c...carrier bearings in the differential
The cost to replace/repair the items is listed in the same order. Drive axles...new from Napa Auto under $200 + labor to install
Spindle bearings...$300 per side + labor
Transmission carrier bearings...unknown cost + labor (find a good one from a wreck to swap out)
But wait...there is something I found looking at the parts book that is very over looked...it is called a "half shaft assembly" that is on the passenger side of the transmission. This is a small shaft that comes out of the transmission, into a bearing that the axle goes into. Rather than run a long drive shaft, Acura brought it out closer to the wheel. This bearing is tucked up behind a heat shield next to the exhaust pipe. (looks to be a royal pain to install)
I looked at the bearing and it appears to be in not good shape as evidenced by the grease that is accumulated up around the seal where the axle comes through.
Cost...$225 + labor to install. Looks like I should also order an exhaust gasket to replace the one that will have to come out.
I do believe that I have zero'd in on the offending bearing and will report back after I get it installed later this week.
*tossing popcorn into mouth* Ok...*muffled speech* Had the dealer pop the half shaft in this morning. Wife drove the car home and called me to say that the sound is still there. I get home and test drive the car. Yep, it is there...40-60 mph and pronounced.
Is the car quieter...absolutely, I forgot how quiet the car should be.
Take the car back to the dealer and explain I want the mechanic to drive with me so he can hear what I hear. So we drove the test loop at 50-60 mph on the freeway. He heard what I heard, so we go back to the shop. It doesn't seem to be on any particular side. So the car goes on the lift, and he puts the stethescope on the drive line. It is more pronounced on the RF. He drives and I go under and listen for various parts. LF is quiet but the RF hub bearing is making some noise if you compare both side. The transfer case is quiet. So we narrow it down to the RF hub bearing. Which was my original thought of what it could be.
My '97 had the same issue but the bearing was pressed into the knuckle.
It is part #2 in the diagram. The cost is $200-$230 for the part depending upon where you buy it. Can I install it...not sure yet. I can get all of the parts loose, but can I pull it from the knuckle and drive axle is the question. *munch munch on the popcorn*
Time for an update...replaced the RF hub as I described in my previous post. The noise has been almost eliminated by doing this. So we took the car to Oregon for the day. On the way up, the noise started to come back. Best thing the wife and I decided to do was to swing by the Acura dealer and pick the service managers brain as to what it could be. We decided to describe the noise first. The best one I could come up with was a "rumbling" sound but it is more like an oscillating sound related to bearings. It is only at road speeds above 40 mph. The noise does not deviate when you go left or right putting an undo load on the bearing. The dealer didn't have any suggestions as to what it could be even after talking with a mechanic. Someone thought it might be related to the "noise canceling" feature that is in this car. The dealer suggested that we bring the car in for the day and have the mechanics put a set of body microphones on the car and drive it to see if it can be isolated.
Where do I get information on the "noise canceling" feature and a trouble shooting tree/diagram?
What I am going to do is replace the LF hub and see if that eliminates the sound we are hearing as one could have masked the other hub. The cost isn't big so it isn't like we are out of pocket a fortune.
If this does not resolve the problem, then we are left with replacing the drive axles, and I will only go with new and not rebuilds. This is certainly elusive.
There are two noise canceling mics, one in each dome/map light assembly. Supposedly putting your finger over them causes a rumble, so if one is obstructed, I suppose the same thing could happen. It is possible to pull the assembly down (remove the screws first) and unplug the mics, but I found that to be a PITA. The only other place to disconnect is at the Bose amp in the passenger quarter panel of the trunk. Accessing that can be a PITA too, but I was already there installing sub woofers. IIRC, there are three harnesses on one side with all of the stereo signals and one harness on the opposite side for the ANC. Unplugging this harness will turn off the ANC system.
Interesting you should say this. There are at times a rumbling sound that comes out of the door speaker on the right side when I am starting the car in the mornings. I will have to check those microphones and see what comes of that...some tape might be the trick to doing that.
We made a trip to town today...round trip of about 50 miles and the LF is definitely making the same noise as the RF did before the new hub was installed. The wife asked me why both of them are going bad. I hadn't an answer for that question but I did say that the '97 RL had to have the bearing replaced in the hub. That was expensive! But I also said that it seems to me that it is odd that both bearings would be going bad at all, let alone at the same mileage.
Then we discussed if other RL are having the same issue at this mileage (160,000) and the owners don't know it is happening. Again I said I wouldn't know unless I drove one to find out.
So, if we are going to keep the car until it rolls over 300,000 then we know what parts to start replacing. Maybe I should start to stock pile them for when that comes? If nothing else they can go to the new owner if we sell it.
I thought about contacting the district service manager and asking him about my issues with the car and what his experience is. Any way to find out who this person might be?
Here is the latest update and solution...My first instinct when the noise in the front first appeared, I said it sounded like wheel bearings. You can read all the attempts and diagnosis in the above posts.
I finally got to some experts that really knew what was going on and some surprises to throw in. I was in Sacramento last Friday to visit some in-laws. Just down the road about 3 miles was Elk Grove Acura. After talking with a service advisor, the kind lady got me the service manager. I explained who I was, what my back ground as a mechanic has been, and went on to discuss the drive line noise in the car.
The service manager was surprised to hear that the rear u-joints went out as it is customary that the center bearing goes bad. His reply was, I have never heard that before. Then I said if I could get a mechanic to drive the car with me and see if we can figure out what the noise was. The service manager went in the back and got one of the long time mechanics to drive my car for me. We took off down the road and as we chatted he gave the car a run through. He said it was definitely the front hub bearing that was shot. His explanation is that either in the center or on the outside of of the hub the grease goes dry on the double roller bearing, causing the ball bearings to be scratched and then it goes down hill from there. The mechanic on his own time put it on the rack and confirmed our suspicions. The service adviser said he knew that hubs go out on the MDX model and that is why they keep them in stock but it is rare that this happens on the RL. Hence this is why no one suspected the hub bearings of going bad. He also said that the axles are built better than the older ones and haven't to many issues. I highly recommend from my experience to have Elk Grove Acura work on my RL if I lived in the area.
So, in short...I was right about my first diagnosis. You can find the part on Amazon for about $120 OEM part either Timkin or SKF (list 365 discounted to $225 on line OEM catalogs).
What ever you do, do not get a magnet near the hub or you will screw up the magnetic bearing for the ABS. If you want to find the part number it is 44200-SJA-008 and found under "front brakes" in the parts catalog. There is no right or left for this part, it is all the same part number.
I sincerely hope this helps all of you when it comes to a noise in the front suspension that is road speed related.
I have driven and worked on a lot of cars in my life time but never have I ever run into the issues that I have with this RL. It seems that the bearings in this car only have a finite life. Consider this car like a proverbial onion, the more you peel back the more you find out there is more under neath. Case in point, I replaced the LF hub like the mechanic recommended. It did fix the problem. Well...(peeling back another layer) not really. What is has done now is revealed that the axles are making noise. That was one of my other concerns but I couldn't prove it because the hubs were making so much noise. If I had thought far enough ahead, I would have replaced the axles at the same time as the hubs, eliminating any chance of noises at road speed. I suspect that the grease in the hubs has liquified and allowing the bearings to run in the hubs making noise. I will have to check with my parts house and get me some new axles. *next month*
The hub that I took out at 164,000 miles was throwing grease from the back side of the hub where you can't see it. The RF hub just looked like the bearings ran out of grease as it got redistributed some where else inside. If I could take apart the hub and look at the bearings I would but I can't figure out how to pull the hub from the bearings.
Last edited by alfadoctor; 05-19-2015 at 01:44 AM.
FWIW, My daughter had similar rear drive shaft problem on 06 Subaru. Intermediate bearing was howling fiercely. Subaru wanted $2500 to repair. Part was $1700. Bearing is integral to drive shaft and can't be replaced easily (there are companies who will do this however).
I found a used part from LKQ for $90, which they gave me a discount for waiting on another customer (20 mins) to realize a price of $70.
Installation is easy but I paid local shop to $100 to do the job, because I hate crawling around upside down under a car.
Your part is readily available for < $200 on ebay.
Here is the latest update and solution...My first instinct when the noise in the front first appeared, I said it sounded like wheel bearings. You can read all the attempts and diagnosis in the above posts.
I sincerely hope this helps all of you when it comes to a noise in the front suspension that is road speed related.
Alfadoctor,
Thanks for sharing this. I am experiencing a similar problem with my 06 RL 147k miles. The front bearings are one of my main suspects. Will figure it out once I get a chassis ear on it.
Here is what I have finally come to determine what is going on with the front axles. It has an issue that was similar to my Mitsubishi Starion when I had it. The rear axles used to whine at road speed. I removed them, repacked them with new grease after disassembly/cleaning. The hardest part was getting the boots rebanded. After that, never had another issue of road noise.
I had a independent shop look the car over and after driving it/looking at it on the lift, he said the axles were fine. Hence, I am not going to do anything for a while but what I was saying formerly above, the grease has thinned out with 165,000 miles and that is what is transmitting up through to the driver. *shrug*
Thanks for sharing this. I am experiencing a similar problem with my 06 RL 147k miles. The front bearings are one of my main suspects. Will figure it out once I get a chassis ear on it.
If the axles are intact and tight, then you most likely will need just the hub bearing as it is common on RDX's to have them go bad. You can get them from Amazon fairly inexpensively (same part as the dealer) and just pay the labor to have them installed.
02-20-2015, 04:41 PM
