Oil change DIY
07-25-2005, 05:56 PM
#41
Moderator
Originally Posted by hothonda
In '99 I purchased a new BMW 540it Sport...all maintenance was covered by BMW....at 12K miles I called the dealer and told them
the maintenance light had not come on since I bought the car...they said I had to wait till the computer did it or it was at my expense.
Finally came on at 14K.......I sold the car at 15K miles....
Prior to that BMW, it was imperative to change the oil every 3000 miles....when I was paying the bill.
the maintenance light had not come on since I bought the car...they said I had to wait till the computer did it or it was at my expense.
Finally came on at 14K.......I sold the car at 15K miles....
Prior to that BMW, it was imperative to change the oil every 3000 miles....when I was paying the bill.
It doesn't keep the engines very clean...nor does it last 15K.
I'm interested in using a 3oz RX maint. dose in this app to see its effect on keeping the engine clean even after the oils cleaning ability has expired.
Michael
07-25-2005, 07:41 PM
#42
Senior Moderator
Glossary
Michael,
I think most people here don't know what the initials that you use stand for.
On www.bobistheoilguy.com, most of those guys probably do.
Could you explain them for us?
OCI=
Rx=
UOA=
VOA=
LC=
FP=
TAN=
TBN=
PAO=
etc.
I think most people here don't know what the initials that you use stand for.
On www.bobistheoilguy.com, most of those guys probably do.
Could you explain them for us?
OCI=
Rx=
UOA=
VOA=
LC=
FP=
TAN=
TBN=
PAO=
etc.
07-25-2005, 08:57 PM
#43
Moderator
Originally Posted by Xpditor
Michael,
I think most people here don't know what the initials that you use stand for.
On www.bobistheoilguy.com, most of those guys probably do.
Could you explain them for us?
OCI=
Rx=
UOA=
VOA=
LC=
FP=
TAN=
TBN=
PAO=
etc.
I think most people here don't know what the initials that you use stand for.
On www.bobistheoilguy.com, most of those guys probably do.
Could you explain them for us?
OCI=
Rx=
UOA=
VOA=
LC=
FP=
TAN=
TBN=
PAO=
etc.
Gladly:
OCI=Oil Change Interval
Rx= Short for Auto-RX, ester based engine cleaner that work slowly and reconditions seals, without thinning out the host oil.
UOA= Used Oil Analysis
VOA= Virgin Oil Analysis
LC= Short for LC20, which is known as Lube Control, an anti-oxidant that controls oxidation, varnish, and deposit buildup, can also lower TAN. It can also have a tendency to maintain a high flashpoint by keeping the oil in a like new condition without affecting viscosity or significantly altering the oil's additive pack.
FP= Short for FP60, which is Fuel Power. Not to be confused with Flashpoint (FP). Fuel Power is a fuel system cleaner that is used at every fill-up to clean out the fuel system and improve combustion efficiency. You'll notice that it'll drop Nitration levels and insolubles levels in oil analysis.
TAN= Total Acid Number
TBN=Total Base Number...amount of active additive remaining in the oil...many people put too much value on this reading as it is only ONE indicator of oil life.
PAO=Type of Base stock used in oils
Hope this helps,
Michael
08-14-2005, 08:31 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by g6civcx
You guys are going to go nuts when you find out that I change oil and filter twice a week 
Do what you want. Dealers rip you off. MID is just a counter and can't account for harsh conditions. Nobody really knows what the oil composition is until you drain a sample and analyse it.
Ultimately it's your call. You do what you want.
Do what you want. Dealers rip you off. MID is just a counter and can't account for harsh conditions. Nobody really knows what the oil composition is until you drain a sample and analyse it.
Ultimately it's your call. You do what you want.
In other words a car that is doing steady interstate cruising is going to have longer oil life as compared to short trip cars (low average temp) and very agressively driven cars. (High average temps.)
Also, FWIW, I was just told our local dealer is using 5W-30!
08-15-2005, 12:42 PM
#46
Moderator
Rich,
Your local dealer should not be using 5w-30.
Yes, the MID factors in oil temperatures, speeds, etc.
But remember too that the length of trips does make a difference. If you constantly make 3-5mi trips where the oil doesn't warm-up to temp, it does have a severe, negative impact on the oil life since the fuel and condensation does not get removed by the PCV system.
Michael
Your local dealer should not be using 5w-30.
Yes, the MID factors in oil temperatures, speeds, etc.
But remember too that the length of trips does make a difference. If you constantly make 3-5mi trips where the oil doesn't warm-up to temp, it does have a severe, negative impact on the oil life since the fuel and condensation does not get removed by the PCV system.
Michael
08-15-2005, 01:54 PM
#47
I'll be changing out the Honda 'break in' oil at 7k miles with regular dino oil, then at 10k, I'll switch over to M1 or Amsoil. Since the RL is the wife's car and she rarely drives it to more than 75% of it's limit, I'll change the oil every 5k miles. I'll check to see which Honda "PCX" type filters will fit as we all know that the "PLM" series are crap. I also have a dozen Hamp's left and will see if these fit as well.
On my S2000, it's a totally different story. I change the oil on that thing more than I put gas in it. After every track day or mountain run, the oil is dumped and refilled with M1 or LE. The differential (LE607) fluids are changed every other oil change and the tranny fluid (Honda MTL or GMSFM) is flushed and filled every 4th oil change.
I've also followed this same proceedure with my other cars and though I cannot say for certain that this maintenance schedule has actually prolonged the life of the car, I can say that I've never had a problem with any of them due to poor oil management. I'd imagine that maintenance habits have to take how you drive the car into consideration.
For further reading, a member of the TL community as well as the S2ki community named Road Rage has created a bunch of threads to assist us in making the right decision in fluids for our cars.
https://acurazine.com/forums/search.php?searchid=133271
(If the link above does not work, try this one instead.)
On my S2000, it's a totally different story. I change the oil on that thing more than I put gas in it. After every track day or mountain run, the oil is dumped and refilled with M1 or LE. The differential (LE607) fluids are changed every other oil change and the tranny fluid (Honda MTL or GMSFM) is flushed and filled every 4th oil change.
I've also followed this same proceedure with my other cars and though I cannot say for certain that this maintenance schedule has actually prolonged the life of the car, I can say that I've never had a problem with any of them due to poor oil management. I'd imagine that maintenance habits have to take how you drive the car into consideration.
For further reading, a member of the TL community as well as the S2ki community named Road Rage has created a bunch of threads to assist us in making the right decision in fluids for our cars.
https://acurazine.com/forums/search.php?searchid=133271
(If the link above does not work, try this one instead.)
08-15-2005, 02:37 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Michael Wan
Rich,
Your local dealer should not be using 5w-30.
Yes, the MID factors in oil temperatures, speeds, etc.
But remember too that the length of trips does make a difference. If you constantly make 3-5mi trips where the oil doesn't warm-up to temp, it does have a severe, negative impact on the oil life since the fuel and condensation does not get removed by the PCV system.
Michael
Your local dealer should not be using 5w-30.
Yes, the MID factors in oil temperatures, speeds, etc.
But remember too that the length of trips does make a difference. If you constantly make 3-5mi trips where the oil doesn't warm-up to temp, it does have a severe, negative impact on the oil life since the fuel and condensation does not get removed by the PCV system.
Michael
Short trips are accounted for in the MID. It calcualtes average temp against engine operation.
Short trips are factored into the oil change algorithm and will severely shorten the percentage vs. mileage. Same thing with very hgih temperatures. What is not accounted for is operation in very dusty areas.
08-15-2005, 02:58 PM
#49
Moderator
Rich,
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. M1 5w-30 USED to be very close to competitor's 5w-20 oils in terms of viscosity because it was right at 10.0 cst, but since the API SM/GF-4 reformulation, it is currently testing out between 11-12cst. Most 5w-20 oils are in the 8-9cst range.
Here are some Mobil 1 VOAs:
http://www.butler-machinery.com/reso...Oils/New_5.jpg
In dusty areas, its simpy very crucial that the intake system is free of leaks and the air filter is clean, and sealing well. Then, it is as big of an issue as you may think.
Michael
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. M1 5w-30 USED to be very close to competitor's 5w-20 oils in terms of viscosity because it was right at 10.0 cst, but since the API SM/GF-4 reformulation, it is currently testing out between 11-12cst. Most 5w-20 oils are in the 8-9cst range.
Here are some Mobil 1 VOAs:
http://www.butler-machinery.com/reso...Oils/New_5.jpg
In dusty areas, its simpy very crucial that the intake system is free of leaks and the air filter is clean, and sealing well. Then, it is as big of an issue as you may think.
Michael
08-15-2005, 04:50 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Michael Wan
Rich,
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. M1 5w-30 USED to be very close to competitor's 5w-20 oils in terms of viscosity because it was right at 10.0 cst, but since the API SM/GF-4 reformulation, it is currently testing out between 11-12cst. Most 5w-20 oils are in the 8-9cst range.
Here are some Mobil 1 VOAs:
http://www.butler-machinery.com/reso...Oils/New_5.jpg
In dusty areas, its simpy very crucial that the intake system is free of leaks and the air filter is clean, and sealing well. Then, it is as big of an issue as you may think.
Michael
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. M1 5w-30 USED to be very close to competitor's 5w-20 oils in terms of viscosity because it was right at 10.0 cst, but since the API SM/GF-4 reformulation, it is currently testing out between 11-12cst. Most 5w-20 oils are in the 8-9cst range.
Here are some Mobil 1 VOAs:
http://www.butler-machinery.com/reso...Oils/New_5.jpg
In dusty areas, its simpy very crucial that the intake system is free of leaks and the air filter is clean, and sealing well. Then, it is as big of an issue as you may think.
Michael
I'm not sure if I agree with the site shown. www.mobil1.com shows the 10w-30 as 10.0 (cSt @ 100º C) while the chart you reference shows it at 11.0, unfortunately it doesn't show 5w-30 but last time I remember they were the same at 100º C
08-15-2005, 06:57 PM
#51
Moderator
Rich,
That test was done with Mobil 1 oil, purchased off the shelf from auto part stores that you and I go to. Sure, 10.0cst maybe what the engineers intended the viscosity to be, but then you have to factor in several factors.
1) Batch Variation
2) Lab Variation
Main thing here is batch variation, rather than lab variation. There isn't much variation in viscosity, from experience between labs.
Michael
That test was done with Mobil 1 oil, purchased off the shelf from auto part stores that you and I go to. Sure, 10.0cst maybe what the engineers intended the viscosity to be, but then you have to factor in several factors.
1) Batch Variation
2) Lab Variation
Main thing here is batch variation, rather than lab variation. There isn't much variation in viscosity, from experience between labs.
Michael
08-15-2005, 09:27 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Michael Wan
Rich,
That test was done with Mobil 1 oil, purchased off the shelf from auto part stores that you and I go to. Sure, 10.0cst maybe what the engineers intended the viscosity to be, but then you have to factor in several factors.
1) Batch Variation
2) Lab Variation
Main thing here is batch variation, rather than lab variation. There isn't much variation in viscosity, from experience between labs.
Michael
That test was done with Mobil 1 oil, purchased off the shelf from auto part stores that you and I go to. Sure, 10.0cst maybe what the engineers intended the viscosity to be, but then you have to factor in several factors.
1) Batch Variation
2) Lab Variation
Main thing here is batch variation, rather than lab variation. There isn't much variation in viscosity, from experience between labs.
Michael
Very few specs in Europe call for 20 WT oil if I recall correctly.
Take a look at
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php for some of the UOAs.
08-17-2005, 11:36 AM
#53
Moderator
Rich,
Couple main points here:
-- Not close enough for either viscosity. 11cst and 8cst is more than a 20% difference.
-- 5w-20 for HONDA was not a strictly, CAFE driven decision. Honda didn't need it. The real reason why Honda switched to 20wts was the increased flow, and better heat displacing properties of 20wt oils. In addition, 20wt oils are often of a better quality than their 30wt counterparts since they're often blends, in order to meet some of the tough specs set by Ford for 20wts
-- You forgot the part about extended drains in Europe. Find me a 5w-20, that can can be run for 10,000 mi+ relatively easily, and is widely avaliable.
To expand on point #2:
Thinner oil tends to be more solvent, and aids in cleaning surfaces. The more rapid flow at cold and hot temps allow more rapid cooling for the heads.
In addition, Rich, most OTC 5w-30 oils thin to a 20wt during use and the 5w-20 tend to be more chemically stable.
Michael
Couple main points here:
-- Not close enough for either viscosity. 11cst and 8cst is more than a 20% difference.
-- 5w-20 for HONDA was not a strictly, CAFE driven decision. Honda didn't need it. The real reason why Honda switched to 20wts was the increased flow, and better heat displacing properties of 20wt oils. In addition, 20wt oils are often of a better quality than their 30wt counterparts since they're often blends, in order to meet some of the tough specs set by Ford for 20wts
-- You forgot the part about extended drains in Europe. Find me a 5w-20, that can can be run for 10,000 mi+ relatively easily, and is widely avaliable.
To expand on point #2:
Thinner oil tends to be more solvent, and aids in cleaning surfaces. The more rapid flow at cold and hot temps allow more rapid cooling for the heads.
In addition, Rich, most OTC 5w-30 oils thin to a 20wt during use and the 5w-20 tend to be more chemically stable.
Michael
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