lindros2

Acura plans RL makeover | (SUB) | Automotive News
Acura dealers are excited about word from company insiders that the poor-performing RL will get a makeover next summer. Dealers do not have many details on changes coming for the brand's flagship model, but they believe the changes will be dramatic.
Published: Nov 19, 2007

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...NA03/711190328

TampaRLX-SH

Not a lot of details....

Acura had nothing special to show at this year’s LA Auto Show, but Automotive News was able to get some info out of Acura executives present at the show. Company insiders have given word to Acura dealerships that the slow-selling RL will get a makeover next summer. While dealers were not given many details on the changes, they expect them to be dramatic.

“I hear it will be a major facelift in the front and back — new sheet metal,” says Jim Smail, an Acura dealer in Pittsburgh.

Dealers are hoping that the next RL will get a V8 or a V10 engine with more aggressive styling and more legroom in the rear-seat.


Sales through October have been down 47.5 percent from the same period last year. The redesigned Acura RL was introduced October 2004 and has sold poorly since.

According to Dan Bonawitz, vice president of corporate planning and logistics for American Honda Motor Co., a mid-term model change is due next year.

“The three big complaints of the car are interior space, trunk space, and for some, style,” Bonawitz told Automotive News during an interview at the Los Angeles auto show. “You can do some things to create some more interior space. So that’s within the realm of possibility.”

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/11/19...generation-rl/

Mike_TX

Wow - the rumor mill is heating up! I'm lovin' it!

I know style is in the eye of the beholder, but I can't see where styling is a big issue with this car. The only "complaint" I've heard is that it might look a little too much like an Accord (which is just a way of saying it isn't distinctive enough for some).

I personally think the RL is one of the most rationally-styled vehicles since the last-gen 3-series BMW. All the lines flow in a graceful and harmonious manner, with no awkward or unexpected lumps, bumps or sharp corners or creases. The headlights and tail lights are beautifully integrated into the overall shape, and are minor works of art on their own. Nothing looks tacked on, and the overall shape is fluid, aerodynamic and quietly athletic.

IMO, there's not a single place on this car where you grit your teeth a little and say to yourself , "If only they hadn't done that." The new Accord is an example of the opposite ... too many lumps and bumps and awkward lines for my tastes.

But the most important part of this is that we now appear to have *outside* confirmation that something is really up.

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TampaRLX-SH

From what I am reading, a new nose, a larger butt (for more trunk space - a la Accord) and most ambitious would be a stretched platform for more interior / back seat space. My fear is the front / rear overhangs will overpower the already modest wheelbase and the RL will lose the styling harmony Mike so eleoquently depicts above. A stretch wheelbase may address that, but the styling harmony best not be lost. I could not agree more that the Accord has too much going on, too many intersecting lines and the headlight 'warts' all may get attention, but do not have the organic flow the RL has.

I, not so secretly, am tickled my 06 RL has not been 'outdated' by any changes through the 08 model. It feels and looks fresh to me. Time will tell, but this sheet metal refresh may not be enough to bring interest. There better be an engine upgrade choice, updated technology and an engineering focus to get the RL the respect it deserves.

I for one, will be happy as a clam if this MM refresh does nothing inspiring as I believe the current RL will wear very well in the long term. If and when I decide on another RL, I want it to be a leap in engineering, technology and attractive styling, not just superficial makeup to passive the image consultants.

123456SPEED

I think focusing on trunk and backseat space to improve sales on the car is too little, too late. Competition is fierce and no one will care, it's basically the same car, just tweaked. IMO, Acura has never been able to save a dying model by just tweaking it.

Acura tried to do this with the 03 CLS, by adding 6 speed, front and rear tweaks,(mainly lighting), and other minor changes. The CL was doomed when the 96? 1G CL came out as a 'Legend coupe replacement'. Acura lost lots of return customers after the Legend coupe and sedan were discontinued in US.

I personally like the size of the current RL. I do not need a bigger car, I'd actually prefer a coupe but I'm iballing the RL now.

kirbyflorida

The sales staff I spoke with said people want a bigger car.
I like some others do NOT want a larger car, if it gets too big I will look smaller.
The current RL is just right for me, however we current RL buyers are most likely not into big cars.

Rob144

If some of the other rumors are true, then it could that the front doors stay the same while the rest of the car is revamped (BMW did this with a 5-series way back when, only all 4 doors stayed the same while the rest of the body changed).

The question is whether the wheelbase changes. The underbody of the car is so well-engineered, I have to wonder if they'll really mess with the chassis. Further, what would these changes mean to the worldwide market of the RL? Can they restyle the car for the US-only market and share that car with the world?

I suppose its possible to scoop out some interior room within the current structure, and then make the rear more conventional for added trunk space without adding too much length or breaking the proportions. My guess is that the resulting changes will make the car more "formal" so it shows different and looks larger than the new TL.

Have there been other cars that got tweaked like we're talking about, and were then more successful?

Rob144

123456SPEED

I can't think of any car with sales as low as the RL that had dramatic sales increase by tweaking it. Seems that once a car name/model is deemed undesirable I don't think anything can save it. people wanna think a car redesign is all new or substantially changed. With the RL if the changes are not too costly, any increase in sales is probably worth it.

I think certain models can not be resurrected and I'm thinking the CL is one, also the Vigor, del Sol, SLX. Why does Honda/Acura then drop popular model/names is a wonder also, like Legend, Integra, CRX.

Maybe slashing the price could improve sales but it will still be a car nobody really wanted. Competition is fierce. As I say once the Legend was dropped, Acura lost a lot of it's initial following.

dwest1023

Same here. I do not need or want a bigger car. I do not ride anyone in the back, so why do I need to carry all that extra space? For me the current size of the RL is perfect. as is the engine. If I had to complain about anything, it would be the wheels, but even that I can live with. Just give me an up to date navi, cooled seats, better bluetooth any other gadget and honda can make me very happy.

nore03

Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttt I just buy the car now they are changing it. Hope they add some new things that no other car has and market it better.

Mike_TX

As I mentioned in another thread, the Sales Mgr at my dealer cited size and lack of power as the two main things prospective buyers complained about.

Some of the folks here may want a "compact" luxury car, but most buyers in this price and class range expect to be able to take their country club friends around to look at property, take the kids along on a road trip, take friends to dinner, take business clients out, etc., etc., all in spacious comfort. Luxury sedans are a social tool, since upwardly-mobile people like to share the cache with others, and if they're too small ... tilt.

In this regard, the RL loses from the start because it's like a mid-size car with luxury fittings. Sort of a fish halfway out of water.

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sadlerau

Spot on Mike_TX, I agree totally.

With the introduction of the new TL, which if based on the new Accord chassis will be millimeter for millimeter the same size as our current RL/Legend, Acura will be left with no option but to increase the wheelbase of the RL. It would be suicidal to have the TL and RL with identical wheelbases, and only marginally more interior room, if they can manage that.

So crazy as it seems, the indicators are that the new RL will have to have a stretched wheelbase! Here in Australia we have the Holden Commodore [your Pontiac G8] which comes with two wheelbases. The standard car comes with 114.76" wheelbase and the luxury models come with a 118.46" wheelbase. Width stays the same.

Road tests of these cars indicate there are no trade-offs in vehicle dynamics of the larger vehicles, other than the usual disadvantages of longer wheelbase vehicles on tighter roads.

So it can be done, and relatively easily, if the manufacturer has the will. We know Honda/Acura has the ability.

TampaRLX-SH

The Motor Trend news references a new engine in the report. But could that be the 3.7 V6 and not the V8?

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6222133/...-do/index.html

neuronbob

I don't want a bigger car, either, just a bigger engine. The RL's current size is PERFECT other than that that the trunk needs to be a bit bigger. I could care less about back seat space as no one's back there but my little boy for now.

Mike_TX

Tampa, you are sniffing out all the stories, aren't you! Good work! And this one actually says Honda has admitted the RL is being reworked. Woo-hoooo!

The strong implication is that a V-8 is in the works. The complaints are all about having a V-6, so a V-8 is the obvious answer.

I'm gettin' pumped, baby!

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Mike_TX

Bob, you're thinking small. Hasn't your wife told you she wants three more kids and that her mother is moving in with you? And what are you going to do when you win the Pulitzer Prize in Medicine, and have to haul around all those awards and that cash prize? Or when you get the nod to run for Governor of Ohio, and have to make all those campaign stops and carry all those "Vote for Bob" signs around? Or when the Neurology Dep't. nominates you to be the designated driver at their annual Drown a Neuron Beer Bust and Poker Party? Or when you get old and need to stow that folding wheelchair back there?

Space is good, so don't be short-sighted.

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JAB00

Well, this should be a pretty exciting period for Acura. A completely redesigned TL/TSX and a re-tweaked RL.

ssim3

more of the same more of the same http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/11/19...generation-rl/

neuronbob

Umm...that's what our Pilot is for.

OK, my MIL wishes she had another two inches of rear seat room. So hopefully Acura throws a coupla inches in for MILs everywhere.

That post made me laugh so loud that my wife just came over and read the whole thread, something she never usually does. Now she knows the secret Acura handshake!

SpicyMikey

Hey guys, why does it sound like the majority assume this is just a "tweak"? I didn't hear anyone say that at Honda. New engine, new sheet medal, fully redesigned and larger interior. Sounds like a FMC to me.

Just because we haven't seen any test mules around doesn't mean its just cosmetic changes. The new Accord platform is longer and wider then the previous one. I am assuming this new RL will take the wheelbase to 113-114 and stretch the entire car with it. If the new RL comes out in 08 as an 09 model, then that would be a 4 year run for the model. Short by anyone's standards, but not that short. I can see them pulling the plug on this generation early because of the bad sales.

Having said that, I'm not optimistic we will see an all new engine next year. Development of that would be hard to hide if it was 6 months from production. I'm guessing they will use an exiting engine (MDX?) for this first year and then test and offer an optional drivetrain the following year. Only a guess obviously, but, I haven't heard ANYTHING substantial about engines from my friends at Acura. That's what makes me suspicious about that part of these rumors.

Rob144

I get to answer my own question: Ford Taurus. The 1st generation Taurus kept its doors but changed the rest of the body for its first makeover. It helped sales, and was a direct result of consumer feedback on the things they wanted to see improved (fewer visible body seams, for example).

On the following full model change of the Taurus, Ford did the same thing when they realized they went to far with the jellybean look. When it came in for its model makeover, they kept the door skins intact but changed the rest of the car around it.

Not that our beloved RL is a Ford, but it is possible to keep key elements of a car intact and differentiate it enough from the previous model to improve sales.

I think they'll keep the same platform, maybe give it a slight wheelbase stretch, add some height to open up the interior, push back the rear seat, enlarge the trunk, and make the car more formal looking. Think of the transition of the 2G Legend to the 1G RL. Basically the same underpinnings made into a less sporty, more formal car.

Rob144

lindros2

I feel like the RL is to the TL what the Maxima is to the Altima.

While the Legend was a big success (in my mind - I could be proven wrong by the numbers), the RL (both 1G and 2G) haven't sold well.

The Maxima was a tremendous success for Nissan (and Datsun), but the current-gen Altima actually has a smaller wheelbase than the last-gen Altima to prevent it from cannibalizing even more Maxima sales than it already has...

Mike_TX

The reports we're getting from places like Motor Trend and Automotive News use terms like "mid-term model change" and "facelift'. Those terms are inconsistent with a full makeover, so I guess that's why we're figuring it's a freshening (albeit a major one).

But your point is well-taken. At what point does a change stop being a tweak and start becoming a full remodel? If indeed there is new sheetmetal and a new engine, it begins to walk like a redesign and quack like a redesign.

Is it possible Honda-san is saving face by "slipping in" an early redesign while nobody's looking?

(Man, I love this thread.)

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SpicyMikey

True, I think these mag writers are calling it a refresh because of the timing. But even if most of these rumors are true, I think Acura is breaking their lifecycle pattern here and reinventing the RL for MY09 -- eventhough it's hard for many to believe.

I wouldn't characterize it as a "refresh", but, I suppose that's just a word and doesn't matter much. It'll be interesting to see how Acura characterizes it. If they did all these rumored changes, I expect them to sell it as the "All New Acura RL" with a good amount of advertising. Anything short of that would seem like a waste of time to me.

Shotgun

Whatever you call it, it's high time!!! I like the current design of the RL...it just keeps on growing on me. The "dark" models look ultra elegant against the competition. I hope they don't depart too much from the current, very enduring design concept.

Maybe a little larger grill (of the same basic design), overall a little wider, larger wheel well flares, 19 - 20" wheels, same amount of chrome, and minor interior senhancements augmented by a significant performance boost would do the trick for me...

Your thoughts?

TampaRLX-SH

Of course it is all speculation at this point,,,,only Honda / Acura will know for sure.

But what I read is a new nose and tail treatment. Maybe some character lines in the sheetmetal. A new nose and tail may also allow for a more Acura styled nose (and a gladiator shield grille? ), while allowing a different treatment for LEGENDS? It could be an opportunity to differentiate the models and allow the RL to be more Acura styled (and longer, bigger seat and another power plant option?).

I think the engineering changes may result in a longer platform and / or wheelbase so the rear seat could gain 1.5+ inches. Perhaps even recline capability.

I would guess the engine may be a 3.7 V6 as an upgrade or option. A V8, if it becomes a reality, I expect only as an option.

And of course some content feature additions,,,,we have a laundry list of those (cooled seats, rear seat heated / cooled, perhaps a better interface for media (ipod, mp3 files, etc, interface with HFL and address books, text messages etc, larger wheel options,,,,,,) and now that the TL has the RL NAVI, I would expect a next gen NAVI unit and upgraded AcuraLink capability). But content features are easier to package and release on a year to year basis. I think the key changes will be reflected in how much the Sayama plant needs retooling.

One of the reports read a refreshed model by summer. That would only allow one quarter (3 months) to retool the plant and get the 2 month lead tome to produce, ship and sell the car. Major retooling between models usually is 6 months. This hints to me that it will not be substantial engineering changes.

From the reports of launching Acura brand more globally and LEGENDS to become RLs, I would suspect the FULL model change will be a totally new RL and perhaps the end of the LEGEND.

SpicyMikey

Seems like a good list to me I agree the RL already has good lines and a good stance. It think it just needs a few things like what you mentioned. I'm personally fine with the current size but understand they must make it larger now to stay with the trend. The TSX and TL spy shots seem to indicate those cars are going to be larger. We already know the Honda Accord is larger. The RL needs to be the largest of them all. But if they add a few more inches to this thing we will be closing in on 200" and definitely into full size territory. That alone will probably force them to offer an 8cyl option

Mike_TX

Tampa, you say a new model retooling usually takes 6 months ... that isn't the case for most cars.

For example, GM and Ford shut down their lines for something like 60 days for new models. It usually entails changing out the stamping dies for body parts, making any adjustments to the assembly line for new or different parts or processes, sourcing the new parts and setting up supply lines, training line workers on new or changed parts or tasking, running samples, then ramping up to full production.

That's simplified, of course, but the biggest changeout is in the stamping dep't., where installation of new dies, tweaking, and test runs take several weeks.

I wouldn't think it would take Honda any longer, since they have some of the most advanced assembly lines in the biz. And with JIT parts sourcing/delivery, they don't even to stockpile the parts. I could see them tooling up for a major rework in 8 weeks or less.

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TampaRLX-SH

I love the RLs dimensions, wide, low and substantial without being Nimitz class.

However, our Gen RL dropped 3 inches in length and 4 inches in wheelbase from the previous generation. To most people that was a step backwards. People who like big cars tend to want them even bigger (part of the SUV mentality I would guess). Bigger is better to most, and that is somewhat in the luxury sedan mentality as well.

black label

As a side note there is another thread going on regarding 3 "CVA" RL's sitting on a dealers lot.

To me (and I like to read into things) this means they are truly scared about the current RL. These CVA vehicles are for Factory reps (and sometimes auto shows). Why would you put Factory reps into your lowest production number car ,which theoretically has the highest progit margin (but who paid MSRP for their RL?), when you have a plant in Ohio literally shitting out TL's?

IMO, their scared that they will be selling 2008 RL's into 2010, kind of like the 2005 NSX. They need to do something with them.

static808

If they hit a homerun with the redesign, I am trading in my 2005. I personally hope the American designers get the sheet metal assignment. Lets put a V8 RWD bias SH-AWD and be done with it.

Also, lets add some new tech gadgets...like new NAVI and some additional tech goodies

larrynimmo

In my area, once they did the 3.5k marketing support on the 07's they were completely gone by Sept 1st. I would imagine they didn't make that many 08's and if they put 5k marketing support I would think they would go quick. Especially if they market the vehicle as well. A non-tech including freight would go for 37k...tech 40.5k....it may take a few months but i think they will sell. If they wait till the new models come out, maybe they will be stuck with some leftovers.

How many 07's do you have left, and what is the mix?

SpicyMikey

If I can believe the MID, the RL's SHAWD is already RWD biased OR neutral. My senses also confirm that. My MDX is definitely more of a FWD vehicle. The SHAWD is tuned different on the MDX. Conclusion; Don't touch the SHAWD system on the RL. That's the least of it's negatives.

Rexorg

Now that the cat is out of the bag I would imagine by the time the 100th Chicago Auto Show (6 February for the media) rolls around we will have a pretty good idea of what the new RL will look like. While the discussion has been mostly about the exterior and power changes, I would hope Acura comes up with a revised interior and new high tech features like satellite based (not DVD) navigation, blind stop and lane departure, and a state-of-the-art audio system with 14 speakers and 400+ watts of power.

dwest1023

Now you are talking

Mike_TX

Yes, but please Lord, make the lane departure warning where you can turn it off and leave it off. Just ask the Infiniti M owners about that particular pain-in-the-ass ...

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neuronbob

I totally agree! SH-AWD needs absolutely no work other than weight reduction if possible. On full launch, the MID shows typically 3 bars to the front and 2-3 bars to the rear. I have absolutely no torque steer. Works fine to me.

mrproul

My thought exactly. when the integra went from being an integra to an rsx i was immediatly turned off. to just ditch such a heavy seller and completley change the name, motor, V-TEC. and to completley redisign the entire car, but not keep the fell of the old integra. Come on. I see more integras on a daily basis than i do RSX's. so a major model change would be good but they have to do it in the right places. the die hard fans that loved the integra for what it was now had a heavy underperforming car in my opition.

motors are constantly changing so i am fairly certain that they will offer a V8 for the RL but still retain the V6 as the entry level motor. also i am sure they will offer a Type S and an A-Spec version of the RL because that is what the consumer wants to see. if they don't they will be shooting thereselfs in the foot.

I apologise for my poor gramatical skills,

Mrproul

JeffS

Would you like to open the bag a little further and give us your thoughts on the engine options and/or when it should be available at the dealers?

static808

Okay, lets keep the SH-AWD as-is

I hope its a significant refresh, kind of like when they revamped the Infiniti M "boxed batmobile" to the new Infiniti M. That was a full model refresh but I hope the Rl gets something noticeable and not just tweaks inside and out.

BTW, I was behind a new Accord and the tailights are pretty much the same design as the RL's. Very interesting...