msu79gt82

I think that is what they need to do and include a backup camera!!! I suspect that the buyers will take to it - they take to the competitions ventilated seats, cameras, 18s, etc.

jhr3uva90

Funny how the GS 300 AWD has an MSRP of $45K without satellite radio, navigation system, or even a sunroof, yet it's not considered overpriced.

jhr3uva90

Not enough features compared to what?

lflorack

I agree. I've been looking around a bit and pricing cars on-line. In every case, the price of a different brand (but similar) car with the same features as the RL costs more.

bkw

Exactly.

Hell, just for kicks, price out the BMW 325xi. Load it up with everything that the RL comes with, and you're over $43k! Now remember this - there are users on this board that have found the RL for $43k.

Now answer me this.. would you take a loaded 325xi over an RL?

RL_Cruizin

The author of the article said it best . . "Maybe Acura doesn't have the brand image" to sell a vehicle at that price."

That's what it's all about folks. Everyone here agrees this is one terrific car, but when Acura sells RSXs and TSXs, it brings the companies reputation down. Lexus and Infiniti only sell up-scale vehicles!

Precision Crafted

I agree with the RSX assessment 100% this is why the car is dead. It is nice and all but it is NOT a luxury car the way an Audi A3 is or a BMW 1 seriers is.

Now the TSX could be a luxury car dispite the in-line 4. First it needs to be separated from the Accord. It is too much like an Accord (yes I know it is one). Also it took long enough to have sat radio and memory seating. Even in the first year it lacked a pwr pass seat.

The TSX and the TL for that matter both need to feel like luxury cars. True some Acura dealerships have no clue how to sell a luxury car unless they sell other luxury makes like my local dealership. Now if Acura where to offer some features that one would see in an entry level Benz or 3 Seriers or Audi A4 along with some expensive looking materials and leather that was above and beyond what you find in an Accord then this may help Acura's case a bit.

BTW, the JDM Accord has some nice features we cannot get here in NA such as a credit card thick "key" to unlock the doors which seems similar to the new smart key system the new Lexus LS 460 will have. I saw Honda with it first but as always it is only in Japan.

When Acura's design is separated from Honda and sold else where then things should "hopefully" improve.

jhr3uva90

I agree with the RSX's assessment. I think they should have never sold the RSX. When the Integra ended its run, that should have been it for that car.

The TSX, on the other hand, sells quite well, so I don't think Acura feels the need to change it. The TL sells like hotcakes, so Acura really doesn't want to change it. In fact, I expect the TL's mid-life cycle refresh to be mostly cosmetic.

I like the point you made about the JDM Accord having features that the Acura TSX does not have. The same thing goes for the JDM Legend/Acura RL. The Japanese tend to emphasize consumer electronics-type features in their cars more than Europeans and Americans. That's what I meant in the other thread when I said Honda (the parent company) considered the North American market and afterthought when they designed the Legend.

Precision Crafted

andrewgg2

Please remember that the TSX in Europe is an Accord! (they never introduced US version of the Accord, they decided to sell TSX under the name Accord in Europe)

andrewgg2

Also, Acura should remove ONSTAR and offer Technology Packages (Bose, Nav, etc) just like Infinity, Lexus. They loaded the car up and it is expensive for average Joe. Infinity charges about 500 alone for XM. I think if you build FX 35 up compared to RL it costs about 48K without Bluetooth.
Base of $34K (FX 35) sounds much better when you are trying to sell the car initially. Later you can persuade buyers to add options, after you have the sale. BMW, Benz, Lexus, Infinity are all known for this.

VChron

True, but the problem is its main competitor is the Honda Accord. The Accord is the number one car cross-shopped by TL owners according to Acura. The TSX and the MDX might very well be in a similar position versus the Accord/TL and Pilot, respectively.

This points to a serious problem with branding, in my opinion.

Precision Crafted

Oh I'm sure he knows but the fact remains, it is the same car with way more features that one would/ could associate with a luxury car. Also the US Accord is the Honda Inspire (which during the last generation was our Acura TL) and it too has features that puts the NA Accord to shame but would hold up well to the new Camry.

jhr3uva90

Here's an idea: make the Technology Package standard equipent (minus the run-flat tires) and keep the RL's MSRP at $50K.

lindros2

My one question is: how does Porsche sell cars with their "a la carte" options list ?

Prestige.

Acura needs that. We're well past the days of the Acura Legend Coupe (the Mazda Millenia was a cool car in those days).

SPUDMTN

It amazes me how people continue to gripe about the RL's price. The RL is a midsize luxury sedan. Midsize luxury sedans start in the $45k+ price range. The RL comes completely loaded at thousands less than its competitor's products. Head on over to www.bmwusa.com, www.mbusa.com, www.audiusa.com, www.lexus.com, or www.infinti.com and equip a 530xi, E350 4matic, A6 3.2 Quattro, GS300 AWD, or M35x similarly. The RL undercuts ALL of the German vehicles, the Lexus, and nearly matches the Infiniti. So tell me, how is it that the RL is overpriced?

Further, how is it that one can say the RL is too small? It's not. It's right on the mark when compared to its midsize competition. It's actually bigger than a few of them. Go check out the interior and exterior dimensions--they do not lie. Yeah, it's not much bigger than the TL, but neither is the 5-series much bigger than the 3-series, nor the GS from the ES, or even the G from the M. The entry-level luxury cars are getting bigger and the midsizers are basically staying the same size. So let's not play the dimension card.

Yes, the looks are a bit sedate. Because image is the name of the game, the designers needed to be a bit more daring. But part of this problem was the lack of a dedicated Acura design team. I'm sure that now Acura has its own design center that we will see products that unite the brand in a more streamlined manner, offering bolder, more luxurious products. Is this a major reason the RL is not selling too hot? Hardly. How is it that the GS is selling so well? It's certainly not because of its "bold" design.

I honestly do not believe the RL's problem is a lack of options, the lack of a V8 option, or the conservative (but quite handsome) styling. As I read through previous posts, I read of people saying that the RL is too expensive one moment, and the next moment saying that they want a V8 option. I have also read that some people cannot justify the price difference between a TL and an RL. Well, that's the way it should be. Why should the RL be geared towards the "average Joe"? How can we one moment say that the vehicle needs more prestige and then the next minute say that it needs to have a lower price?

The price should, instead, help the prestige factor. I really think the problem is with the dealers and the marketing of this product. Acura created a product worthy of competing with the best from Europe, and instead of showing the European faithful that, they seemed to expect Acura loyalists to eat it up. Well, it doesn't seem like many Acura loyalists want to shell out $50k for a vehicle. Why should they? They haven't paid that much for an Acura before. Acura needs to push this towards people who are willing to pay this kind of money...if that means they have to alienate those who do not want to spend that much, so be it. I don't think the goal should be to accommodate the Honda/Acura loyalists...the goal should be to attract a new kind of buyer, without completely losing its traditional customer base. I don't want the RL to be cross shopped by TL buyers, and I don't think Acura wants that either. The RL is a more expensive product and should attract buyers accordingly.

Selling the product for far less than what it's worth is not helping the situation. I think it's that dealers are willing to cut the prices so much on the RLs. How is prestige going to be improved if you sell the car $5k off of MSRP? How is that going to help at all? What's everyone at the country club going to think when you pull up in your invoice-priced luxury car? Some of you may say "So what?" or "Who cares?" but it's all about image in this price territory. The dealers are not helping their situation at all. Instead of slashing prices and hoping to pull in buyers by word-of-mouth on what great of a deal they got, they need to push the product! Offer RLs as loaner cars, give RL test drives to people who are new to the Acura brand, to show what Acura is all about. Heck, dealers who happen to sell BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus products should push RL test-drives to whoever is checking out a 5-series, A6, E-class, or GS. I don't think dealers should chase after TL buyers and try to sell a more expensive product. Let's face it: the average TL buyer probably won't be too interested in purchasing a $50k product...if they were, they'd come in asking for an RL.

The problem is that the average luxury car buyer does not know that the RL is out there. It never really has been a player before and now it is. Acura has totally missed the mark when it comes to marketing and advertising this vehicle, for it has the goods now. They cannot just expect customers who have never considered the Acura brand before to just walk in with the low-key introduction of the new RL.

So in summary: a lower-priced model is not the answer. Nor is cutting the current price. The answer is in informing the customer. Many luxury buyers have never before considered an Acura product. The products are now worthy, but the dealership experience needs to be standardized--and this does not just mean better facilities. Customer service must be of the up-most quality, sales consultants must not be the average auto-salesman, and sales tactics must not be that of the average car dealer. If one expects to sell luxury goods, they must be sold in a manner befitting of the brand's intended image. Discounts should be few and far between, for the product and buying experience should justify the asking price (or very close to asking price).

But the dealers have already done the damage. Is the blame solely the dealers fault? NO. Acura did not prepare them. In fact, it seems as though Acura was completely oblivious to what was to come. The engineers and product planners had it all right, but the marketing, advertising, and business side of Acura was still stuck in the Acura dark ages, selling mediocre products such as the G2 TL and CL, G1 RL, and RSX (heck, even the MDX is a product of Acura's dark ages). I think the RL is a perfect example of the chaos that is the business side of Acura; where is the unity within the Acura corporation? Why is not everyone on the same page? It's as though those in charge of engineering and design were on a different page than those managing all business aspects of the new product...

Because of all of this, Acura has some major cleaning up to do.

jhr3uva90

SPUDMTN,

You hit it on the nose! The irony is the situation is that Acura is ALL marketing. There is no such thing as an Acura engineer, and Acura designer, or an Acura manufacturing plan. Acura exists solely for marketing, which is defined by the 4 P's: Product, Price, Placement, and Promotion. As far as Product is concerned, the RL is damn good. Acura didn't have much say in the car, except for what features to keep or remove to hit the second P: Price. Acura new they were taking a risk by setting the MSRP at just under $50K instead of removing more features and bringing the price down. The third P is Place, meaning where the car is sold. Based on posts I read, the dealerships are a BIG problem. They are not ready for prime time when it comes to selling true luxury cars. The TL is an easy sell, just say "258 hp for $33K" and that's it. The advantages of the RL are more subtle and require sales people to actually know about the car and be able to articulate the advantages. Plus, who's going to buy a $50K car from an Acura dealership that also sells VW's or Pontiacs? The final P is Promotion, which Acura was lacking. The TL is already selling well, so does that car need as much print advertising? Use some of that advertising budget on the RL instead. Also, where are the sponsorships? Where are the product placements?

So basically, I agree with you. And I really like your point about using the RL as a loaner car. The other day, a friend of mine took her 3 Series BMW for service. They gave her an X5 for a loaner. Now she's in love with the X5 and hopes to make it her future vehicle. Last week, I took my RL for service. Do you know what they gave me for a loaner car? A TSX.

ralteredstates

There is one point I don't think anyone has touched on. I went from a BMW 740 to the RL because I wanted an AWD Luxury car with the features the RL has. After test driving the Infinity G, M , Acura TL, and RL I first purchased the TL. After 3 days I returned it to get the RL. The TL is a blast to drive but as far as I'm concerned I also missed the comfort the 740 gave me. O.K. now to the point... the RL is Acura's first try at REAL competition for the 5 series, GS, and larger Infinitys. These other companies have for years had a car in the 50,000+ range and have over the years built up their sales. Didn't happen overnight. Acura has had a car in this range for only 2 years!! Even Caddy has had a car in that range for many years. Acura IMO doesn't understand how to sell a car in the US that costs that much (even though it is worth every penny of 50,000 for what you get) Lexus has a huge start in this category, BMW and Audi don't even have to try (Audi doesn't!) I like stats like the next person but don't need a V8 (except in a can). Acura would have to be NUTS to put a V8 into the RL. This car is designed around a V6 including size, brakes, suspension, trans (needs to be a 6 speed...one of a few mistakes by Acura). I don't need to get to 60 in 5 secs. WHO DOES?? Quite honestly, other than the M35X, I think the RL is the best all around package especially for the price and I wouldn't get the M for one reason only...you have to park your nicely handling car to use the nav!!!

mrdeeno

I agree with a lot of the recent posts about what acura should do, especially about how decontenting and lowering the price is a bad move.

I think at this point, with Acura's lack of experience selling $50k plus cars, they have to play the game the way their rivals play it...offer v8, offer options, offer trim packages, etc.

Instead they introduced the RL and marketed it THEIR way and expect people to eat'em up. They give too much credit to the average luxury buyer. They think that average luxury buyers care about SH-AWD, when in reality all those buyers know about is AWD...even alot dealers are ignorant about SH-AWD, how do you expect luxury buyers to be educated about it? They think the average luxury buyer cares more about the car being 300hp rather than not having a v8. They expect the luxury buyer to recognize the value of the RL not found in competitors, when in reality most luxury buyers only give a small nod to value.

Basically, they marketed the RL differently from their rivals. As a relative newcomer to the $50k+ market, they have no business doing things this differently. The way they marketed the RL even has some "cocky" connotations to it..."You don't need a v8. You don't need rwd. You don't need any other options. You don't need any other trim levels. You don't need anything else...the car is perfect and if you don't buy it, you don't recognize the value!" The irony of it is that many people in this market DO recognize the value, but don't place such an emphasis on it.

Even when I test drove the RL, the dealer, for one, couldn't explain the difference between SH-AWD and other systems. I already knew and just wanted to test him. He just said it was "better". That's being ignorantly cocky. When I mentioned that I was looking at the M45 sport, he told me I didn't need a v8 and the RL's 300hp v6 was enough power. I also told him I liked the 19" rims and he told me that I don't want those rims in our region because of the weather.

WHO THE HELL IS HE to tell me I don't need a v8. WHO THE HELL IS HE to tell me I shouldn't like 19" rims? That's being cocky. It's like going to a grocery store and having someone hand you a head of lettuce, then tell you "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT BECAUSE IT'S HEALTHY!"

mrdeeno

I don't need to get to 60 in 5 sec., but then again we're talking the luxury segment here. Who needs heated seats? Who needs xenon headlights? Who even needs a v6 engine? If you apply your line of reasoning across the board, then the WHOLE LUXURY sedan segment doesn't need to exist.


I used the nav in the M while going from PA to NYC, didn't need to park to use it. I just used voice commands. I also have access to the address book and prev. destinations without having to park. That's not a deal killer if you ask me.

jhr3uva90

We might WANT a V8 but we overwhelmingly buy V6. For example, I posted January 2006 sales of the Lexus GS 300 (V6) versus the Lexus GS 430 (V8) and I believe the V8 counted about 14%-15% of sales. Chances are, if an Acura RL was available with a V8, it would only be 10% of sales. I don't think Honda can afford to design and especially manufacture a V8 engine that would go into just one model which would sell about 1700 per year in the entire United States. In addition, if people are complaining about a $50K Acura, imagine what they would say about a $55K Acura?

I'm sorry about the salesman Mrdeeno had to encounter. I think we can all agree that Acura salespeople have a LONG way to go. Instead of being so brusque about "not needing a V8," s/he could have been more positive about the advantages of the V6 engine. Also, it alarms me when Acura salespeople cannot explain SH-AWD, since that's the RL's biggest feature.

I don't know what can be done about the Acura dealerships. In a way, I wish a car company could directly own the dealerships the Apple Computer owns its Apple Stores. That way, Acura corporate could have direct control over the dealer experience, which would help build the entire brand and pave the way for a true flagship.

ralteredstates

[QUOTE=mrdeeno]I don't need to get to 60 in 5 sec., but then again we're talking the luxury segment here. Who needs heated seats? Who needs xenon headlights? Who even needs a v6 engine? If you apply your line of reasoning across the board, then the WHOLE LUXURY sedan segment doesn't need to exist.


I don't know any Luxury sedan that goes much faster than the RL except MUCH more expensive Audi's S series, BMW's M series and the much more expensive V8 powered sedans. Why are people comparing the RL to these? Who needs heated seats??? People who buy a Kia do and almost any other car. The luxury sedan is founded on comfort, safety, electronic toys and speed (not racing speeds). (As far as the xenon headlights...Acura's stink...whoever designed them should be shot...but I won't be able to see them unless they are within 40 feet of the car at night and would much rather have halogen low beam than these xenons.) My "line of reasoning" falls into reality, not wishing the RL was a Bentley Continental. Wouldn't it be nice if the RL was a Mercedes S500 AWD at half the cost but much more reliable? It's not and doesn't aspire to be.
As far as dealers are concerned, I am sorry to hear so many of you have terrible dealers. My sales man was 26 y.o. that knows the Acura's inside and out. Explained every question/concern that I asked completely and if didn't know the answer (Acuralink w/ my Treo 650) went out of his way to find out. BTW, not every Lexus dealer is great, I had a new LS in 1999 and enjoyed the couch ride for a while but the service was very questionable. The dealer also had no idea how to work the nav system (my car had the first touch screen hard drive based system in the state) and actually asked me to explain some of its functions when it came in for service!

jhr3uva90

Speaking of the S class, am I the only one who sees a resemblance between the Acura RL and the Mercedes S class? If Honda would just flare the fenders more and change the lights, they would have a twin, or at least a cousin, of the S.

mrdeeno

That didn't stop them from producing a RWD platform for one car that sold less than 1000 per year and lost money on every single sale, did it? At least a v8 can potentially be used in next generation of cars/trucks, unlike hte NSX platform which is pretty much a "single-use" generation.

Sales of a v8 would be low, but you're only thinking of DIRECT sales, not sales due to the "halo" effect.

How many people do you think got interested in the 530 because they read an article touting the virtues of the 545i? How many do you think walked into an infiniti dealership after they read an m45 article and drove out with an m35? Just the image of the RL would be lifted if they had a v8 and that would help sales of v6 models. Like I said before, only 10-15% of the GS or M or 5 or E are sold with v8 engines...but 100% of RL's are sold with v6 engines, yet that still doesn't make its sales any better.

I think they need more training and investment. I'm sure that the better dealerships have seminars or something to make sure their people KNOW the product they are selling before they start to sell. Not only would this help sales but it would help retain good dealers who have to retain interest in the product.

The salesman I was with just came from a Jeep or some other domestic dealership the week before. Before he starts selling RLs, shouldn't he know a little about them? I guess there's no "prerequisite" to go from selling junk to selling luxury cars, and I think Acura is still being "cocky" and think their cars are so great that the dealers don't have to do any "selling" because they cars should sell themselves.

My infiniti dealer admitted he didn't know everything about the M, but ran over every feature of the car even though he knew I already knew about them. He said that if he makes any mistakes to let him know. But then again, this dealer also sells jags.

The acura dealer I was at used to be part of a suzuki dealership or something...the prev. generation RL had to share a showroom with a swift!!

psteng19

It could be that the size difference between the RL and TL in addition to the fact that the difference in power is merely 30 hp.
With the others, the salesman can pull the ace out of his sleeve and show them the available V8.

And the difference in size between the TL and RL is much less than the others.
The 3er is about the size of an economy car, where as the 5er is family sedan sized (think Civic to Accord).
With the TL and RL, you almost need measuring tape to make sure the numbers are accurate.


It's all relative. Compared to the Euro's, the RL is under-priced.
Once you throw in Lexus and Infiniti, it appears overpriced because the price is instantly $7000 more than the base GS/M, which you can customize to your desire.

With regards to the V8 comment and pricing, the RL costs as much as a barebones V8 GS/M.
Not exactly apples to apples, but the point is at $50k, the competition is offering a V8 which the same cannot be said for the RL. Americans love V8's.

If you check out the TL forums on AZ, you will see quite a few having no desire to upgrade to the RL in the future, not because of price, but because it does not offer much more than the TL as far as interior dimensions and performance (read: no V8).
That's where the justification part comes in.


The M is even less known than the RL (here for 2 years?) but Infiniti is doing a good job with it.
The advertising for the M sucks pretty bad as well, but I think where they succeeded is winning all the car mag comparos. There's no bigger endorsement than car mag editors consistently choose one car over the others.



You've made a few good points and you're correct in that there is no one factor that is contributing to poor sales of the RL.
It's a combination of a few factors that I posted a few pages back.

psteng19

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202277

1sicklex up to his usual shenanigans.

jhr3uva90

Are Lexus ES drivers upgrading to the GS? If not, who is acquiring that car? I ask because many of the RL/TL arguments can be applied to the GS/ES. The ES is 191.1 inches in length with a 218 hp engine, while the GS is 190 inches in length with a 245 hp engine. In other words, the hp difference between the GS 300/ES 330 is the same as the hp difference between the RL/TL plus the GS is actually SHORTER than the less expensive ES. So the problem isn't necessarily the hp or sizes of the respective cars.

Here are the problems in a nutshell, from my perspective:

Acura corporate needs to take the brand upscale. Acura's sole purpose is marketing, and they need to decide if they are going to be a luxury brand or not. If so, then they need to work on the 4 P's: product (kill the RSX and possibly the TSX and focus on V6/$30K cars and above), price (no more $20K Acuras), place (I'll get to that later), promotion (product placements, sponsorships, print ads over TV ads -- know the target demographic and try to reach that demographic in its natural habitat).

Acura dealerships need to become LUXURY dealerships instead of glorified Honda dealerships. Once, I went to a Honda dealership and an Acura dealership in the same day and could not tell the difference. BMW dealerships, on the other hand, might be snobby when it comes to customer service, but at least they know their cars and driving performance.

Acura customers need to be willing to accept an Acura that costs over $40K. Many typical Acura customers want the Acura RL to do EVERYTHING for $50K, even though the same money would basically get you a BMW 530xi with a radio, fake leather seats, and not much else. Some Acura customers are so accustomed to inexpensive cars (many went from Accords to TSX's or TL's) that they cannot perceive the subtleties of a more expensive car (otherwise they would understand why an Acura RL costs more than a TL, or for that matter, why a Lexus ES 330 costs more than a TL).

And here's a prediction: the next MDX will have a base price over $40K. That's why Acura has developed an RDX: so the MDX can go all out and compete with the X5 or the Lexus GX. And the dealers will have a hard time selling it because they lack the class and panache to sell an upscale vehicle. And the Acura customers will bitch about how the MDX costs over $40K without a V8 plus every feature known to man. And although the next MDX will sell better than the current RL, somebody is going to be disappointed with the sales numbers.

mrdeeno

I don't think many ES drivers are upgrading to the GS simply because a lot of ES drivers I see around like the "super-plush" the ES can offer, so they may end up keeping the ES forever or buying another one, or buying an Avalon. OTOH, I think a lot of IS drivers probably graduate to a GS or another car in this class.

I think GS customers (as well as M customers) are "stolen" customers. Myself for example...I had a CL-S, so of course the first car I looked at to succeed the CL was the RL. Again, it was great value at a compromise. With the M (and GS to an extent), the reliability is there, but the value is there also when comapred to the Euros, but also less compromise. I'm sure there are a few 3-series and a4 customers that were stolen also. the RL isn't stealing much and I havce a feeling that most RL buyers were previous Acura drivers.

Acura should realize that they HAVE a large customer base that can graduate from RSX to TL to RL or MDX, and this is a big plus for them because these buyers, if they are happy, will be looking at Acura first for their next car. But as loyal as these customers are, they aren't goign to buy an Acura RL simply because it's an Acura. These customers WILL shop around and buy what is best for them, and if they're spending $50k+, they won't be as willing to compromises as someone spending $35k. Again, stop telling people what is good for them and stop telling people what they need or what they want...GIVE BUYERS WHAT THEY WANT!

psteng19

1. The GS has an available V8.
2. ES owners are most likely not the demographic for a sports sedan (most likely Buick, Avalon/Camry).

mrdeeno

Another thing the GS has going for it is reliability...there's probably a few people sick and tired of problems with their Euro sedans and they'll look at the GS and M as reliable alternatives, especially if they want a v8.

I'm guessing that a lot of the Euro-people who looked at the GS and M realized they could get a GS or M with a v8 for the price of a E350 or 535.

headersplus

Many people have told me the same thing when looking at mine.

jhr3uva90

I know there have been MANY complaints about how "plain" the RL looks, but I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal that said that the median age for a passenger car on the road in the U.S.A. is about 8.9 years. Anyway, here's my point: I think the RL's "plain" looks are actually an advantage because the car 's looks will age well and still look fairly contemporary 9 years from now. How do other RL drivers feel about that? Is the Acura RL like a basic blue business suit that will never go completely out of style, that you can wear years from now?

Precision Crafted

I'm not sure any car has a wow look in the price range of the RL. Granted, Lexus has done a good job in styling the front of the car and the chrome trim around the doors as well as the chrome strip at the bottom of the doors does do a good job of catching the eye.

The M series has an interesting headlight design and the tail lamps are nicely done. The new 5 seriers has a striking rear quarter and tailend design. It may not be liked by many on this board but is is "out of the box" and the E-Class has the classic M-B look.

Now with that said, the RL is safe, perhaps too safe. The side character line could have been more pronounced, the grill could have been less chromie ( a new word perhaps) and the head light covers could have turned downward sharply. The front bumper could have had a better air intake that was more stylish in the way the TL and TSX are more stylish. With in the side air intakes then the fog lamps could have gone there.

The back of the RL is non discript but looks good. If I were the designer I might have had a part to the taillamp extending into the trunk and narrowed the whole assembly altogether for a sleeker look.

But these are my opinions. Oh, yea and the wheel design on the RL currently sucks.

Some visual changes along with a more powerful motor could help the RL's sales. I do not like the deconenting idea at all.

jhr3uva90

I agree about the back. I think the rear lights have an intricate look that is quite attractive at night. New wheels would be a good idea; I think that is a weak point of the car. I would also make the crease down the center of the good more pronoucned. I actually like a chromy grill, though.

On the other hand, I think the M's back lights are disproportionately large.

mrdeeno

I think the RL looks great in person, but the relatively TINY wheels make it look boring, especialyl in pictures.

c'mon Acura, give the RL some REAL wheels...the concept wheels (20"?) looked great on the car. they probably could get away with standard 18" stylish wheel with 19" options, but instead they give the RL boring 17" wheels and not much more exciting 18" aspec rims.

This would cure ALOT of the "boring" comments.

jhr3uva90

Yup, the A-spec wheels/tires should be standard equipment.

Ibn Rushd

Lowering the price of the Acura wouldn't do much but cause more annoyances. The TL is so close in price. They need to tamper with the engine, give it a higher torque output, if it's a must, lower the horses to match torque. As soon as it gets low end torque, and they show that it keeps up with the V8 boys WITH a V6. No problem.

jhr3uva90

What annoyances would result from lowering the price?

I guess we'll find out tomorrow or Thursday was the RL's February sales were.

iNteGraz92

1sick can blow me for all i care.

ilas

1sick is a loser, just ignore him/her.....

I checked out some of that forum. Most people acknowledged that the RL is a great car for the money. But some people said the RL fit and finish is way below the GS. I highly doubt this. The fit and finish inside and out of my RL is unreal. I have never seen such care taken in putting together a car, the gaps are all close and identical in width, and the paint is really the best I have ever seen on a car with two clearcoats and hand sanding. OK, I am biased, but that's my opinion