NJRonbo

Hello everyone!

Feel kind of funny being in this area, after posting
in the RL area for the past day.

I actually started on this long journey with the
mindset of buying an Acura TL, but now have
my eyes set on leasing the Acura RL.

Here is a bit of history on how it all started.

This is my first ultra-expensive car and I have lots
of questions for you guys to answer as well as
suggestions on getting the best lease price. I thank
all of you in advance for helping me out.

First, my concern is whether I am doing the right
thing leasing a car.

I have always been a car owner -- but an owner of
cars that cost $20K. Looking at the TL , I can
barely afford the payments of about $800 per month
(with my trade-in).

However...

If I lease a LOADED RL model, I can do
that for $500-$600 per month.

I understand the downside of leasing, but I also am
in a position where I only drive under 10,000 miles a
year and like to have a new car every so often.

Do you guys feel that the RL is a significant
step up from the TL in that if I want the ultimate
dream car, it would be worth giving up ownership and
going to leasing?

Another thing....

I have no idea how to go into a dealership and bargain
on a lease. I always thought it works the same way as
purchasing in that I negotiate (as in talk down) a dealer
in price and work out the lease based on that price.

A friend told me that what I should do is rather than
talk cost of the car, concentrate on the current lease
price and negotiate monthly payments.

Here's something perhaps you can help on....

The MSRP of the RL is $49,100 + $570 destination
I loaded the car up with extras that came to a total
of $51,289.

My trade-in is worth $8000.

I would normally go in and talk that $51,289 down
to $47,000 and then apply the trade-in.

Using the Acura Calculator, a 36-month lease on
$47,000 and a $8,000 trade-in comes to: $562
per month.

Should I talk the dealer down to $540 per month?

Even that price seems strange when they are offering
leases on brand new MDX models for less money
money down and payments in the $400-$500 range.

Just not sure how all this works.


Conclusion

Just basically looking for help in whether I am better
off going from just barely able to afford owning a TL
to leasing an RL, which for me looks to be the
ultimate dream car.

If I do go leasing, I need to know the best way to
go into these dealerships and negotiate a fair price
without them ripping me off.

Thanks in advance!

Bitium

2 questions how long is the lease and how much down payment?

Bitium

read this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118571

ck37

Ok, I'm up late and I like these type of questions.

There is a good thread on the TL part of this site that goes into leasing but I will tell you from my point of view why leasing works for some.

If you like to move in and out of cars frequently then leasing is good for you.
If you drive at or under 15k a year, which you say you do, leasing is good for you.
As a matter of fact, if you are only hitting 10k a year, you will get a great monthly payment because the residual (the amount the car is targeted to be worth) at the end of the lease term will be higher due to lower milage.

Owning a car now a days is not like what it used to be lets say 10 years ago. Cars come with mulitple computers that require very expensive and complex machines. Machines some smaller repair places simply can't afford. Meaning you are stuck going to the dealership to get work done. Which you will pay a premium for after the warranty is over. People like "owning" because they feel their money went towards something. Yes in the end of your 5 to 6 year term (after you paid the bank like a lease) you have a car. it is yours. But you also now have to deal with the after the warranty part of it. Extended warranty companies are interesting. They can decide at any time not to pay for a repair needed on your car, depending on the issue. Case in point. I have an X5. engine blew. I received no warning lights of any kind. Had it towed into the dealership, looked at by the extended warranty company and they refused to pay for it. I ended up having to get lawyers, and battle BMW, which resulted in thousands spent on rental cars and the end result was the engine getting replaced 4 months later.
I won't own again unless it's a classic. 69 charger R/T

Back to the lease, right now Acura has incentives behind the RL for leasing, meaning your payment will be lower than what is typical of a car in that price range because they, Acura themselves are discounting the car. This is a "good" lease and more advantageous for the Leasee to get into rather than a car that has no type of incentive. However the flip side to it, is that because the RL is facing steep competition and the future of this current model in terms of resale is still un-yet determined, if you decide to trade in or sell the car before your lease is up, you might get dinged a bit. However if you know you will keep this car for the three or four years you are leasing it, it's a great lease deal. In fact I would say it's a better deal than the TL. The TL is still in demand so Acura doesn't need to boost up the incentives (discounts) to move them like the RL. As a result a higher monthly.

So I don't retype it all again here is a link to my recent post for the lease I am getting for an 05 RL based on my 04 TL trade-in. I was very forward with numbers and I think i was able to help others negotiate good deals for their RL's. I think even better than mine

https://acurazine.com/forums/dating-relationships-14/once-you-go-black-you-never-go-back-not-118010/

The RL is going under invoice right now so yes, your ideal payment monthly is attainable. best thing to do is sit down with some dealers and talk numbers and share them here for comparison. It seems a lot of people on this board are willing to help someone out, so I don't think you could go wrong.

When negotiating a lease, you negotiate the same way as a buy. You want the lowest payment but to get that, you want the lowest total price for the car. ie. Cap cost.
Also don't get suckered into these 5,000.00 down 499.99 a month deals. drive off is all you should put down typically on a lease. (first/last months payement fees etc. usually runs from 700-1000.00 upfront.
for every thousand you put down on top of the drive off, you are only dropping your monthly payment by 20-30.00 Also that money is not a security deposit, you will never see the return on it unless you decide to buy the car outright. All that money is doing is going against the total cost of the car. so if the car is 50,0000. you put 5 grand total down you in essense are discounting 4 grand from the car yourself,(1 thousand is your inital fees) bringing the monthly payment lower. but you will more than likely NEVER see a return from that 4 grand investment because in three of four years you will turn the car in for something else.

What I would do, is buy or go to the bookstore and read up on leasing or research the web on the pros and cons of a lease. Some of the information is dated, but is still useful because the basics are what you want to know.

To wrap this inital post up, the RL is a good lease. It is a step up in terms of refinement and luxury from the TL. The TL is a more sport with some luxury, while the RL is more luxury with some sport.

Good luck.

NJRonbo

CK,

Great stuff here. Thank You!

With the above said, here is my predicament...

Going to get $8K towards my trade-in.

That $8K actuaklly lowers my 36-month payements
from $800 to $550.

Why would I not use that trade-in money towards
lowering the monthly payment?

ck37

Use it. especially if you don't owe anything on the car.
You can sell it privately but know what the market is for your car. If private sales are only going for slightly more than the trade in and you don't want to deal with the hassles of selling outright, then trading it in is a good option.

So lets say you are free and clear on the car you are trading in, you still want to negotiate the lowest toal price of the car. forget the trade in when negotiating. add that into the equation after the fact.
the RL is going for below invoice, 43,800 roughly.
You can get it down to 42,000 easliy since their is a 2500.00 incentive on the RL. 2500.00 minus the 43,800. Now you won't probably be able to ge the whole 2500.00 since the dealer wants to make a profit. but 42,000 is realistic right now.
once that is numver is agreed upon, and your trade in is agreed upon, then subtract the 8000.00 from the 42000.00 follow me?
It's not a simple walk in wam bam here it is. this is where the negotiating comes in.
Now the dealer might not want to go that low since he knows you are trading in a vehicle against the price of the Rl. That is why you should not talk about trade in until after the inital negotiations on the price of the car are agreed upon. He might come back with a lower trade in amount when you introduce your car as a trade in.
These are all games. That is why you need to be firm but also know the steps to take in negotiating.
But since this dealer knows you are trading a car in, you can't go that route, so you need to negotiate with that 8000.00 in play. Tell him you know the current prices the RL's are going for. Tell him you have been offered lower prices if he comes back higher. let him know you are shopping. he might go out to speak to the GM, yada yada yada, then come back with something slightly lower. keep playing until you are at a price your are comfortable with. You want to push but not to the point you shoot yourself in the foot.
We all want to get the girl in bed on the first date, but sometimes we need to take our time to get what we want. follow me?

When I bring up that 5 grand down deal, I am bringing it up for the person that does not have a trade in but is going out of pocket.

Hey, you can also sell your car outright, negotiate the best price without the trade in and see where your monthly is at. If it's not that big of a difference then go that route and use whatever money you make off the car towards the monthly payments. like a spare bank account. you can do that too.
But since you want to do everything with the dealer, I don't think they will buy your car from you, cut you a check, and then negotiate.

It's all about your financial situation, how long you want to keep the RL etc.

ck37

By the way, while the calculators on Acura's site are a helpful tool, you need to sit down and talk to a dealer one on one. What the kelley blue book online says about your car, is different than what the dealership uses.

research these boards my friend. there is a lot of useful info. I speak from my experiences only. I am not a dealer, nor a financial whiz, just some guy who before he gets into anything, researches like crazy, so like you, doesn't want to get taken advantage of.

NJRonbo

You guys are great!

I'll tell them I want $42,000.

I also take it that at that point I can also talk them
down on the extras (floor mats, front nose mask, spoiler, etc.)?

I'm sort of glad nobody is talking me out of leasing the RL
and not buying the TL instead.

Any of you guys want to take a shot and estimate what the
lease cost will be?

To recap:

Car: $42000 + $570 destination = 42570
Extras: $2000 = 44570
Taxes = 2800 (approx.)
Total = 47,370

Trade-In = 8000

Total = 39,370

What would the lease rate be for 36 months/12,000 miles?

NJRonbo

You can also give me an idea of 48 months/12,000 miles per year?

I am actually going shopping tomorrow (going to 2 dealers
in Central NJ) so I'll get quotes and run it by you guys.

Thanks so much for helping out.

Bitium

I never seen a dealer use an incentive at a invoce price. Usually incentives are from MSRP not any deals you make.

Just to be a little bit on the realistic side and not be dissapointed later here is what the car is going for right now. From KBB.com

2005 Acura RL
What consumers are really paying for this vehicle
$ 47,683.00

KBB explanation of this amount:

KBB's New Car Blue Book Value reports what people are really paying for a vehicle. Based on actual new-vehicle transactions received from auto dealers across the U.S., this value is adjusted regularly as market conditions change.

So in fairness and reality you are probably looking at $47.5k - $2500 if you get it.

So new 2005 RL $45k which is a good price, but not $42k

vp911

Makes me feel a little better with my car now.

There are lease calculators on the net to guess the lease price. The 3 year residual was 58% and I believe 4 year is 50%. So if you can find one of those calculators you can play around to see approx what the lease price would be.

gbriank

Vik:

As of JUL 1, the 4 year residual is down to 49%

ck37

Yes you are right typically on the incentives, but we are talking about the RL in this case. The RL is not selling as well as Acura hoped. So they are using that incentive on this car, to go below invoice. Bbout a month or so ago, 45,000 was a good price and still is decent, however 42,000 is attainable. I got below that and so did others.

Also know that this whole GM employee discount gave a boost to the industry last month. Chrysler is following and these are tools to keep in your pocket to use when shopping around for cars.

Bitium,

KBB.com should be used as a guidline only. It's off usually substantially on prices paid, market values, trade in values etc. This is not the tool the dealerships use, so I would not recommend others using their site as the "almighty". You will be greatly dissapointed with the outcome if you do.
The only way to know for sure numbers, real market value, is to go out there and go to dealerships. look at privately sold cars and what they are going for. You need to do legwork to get the outcome you want.

One last thing, incentives are given when a car isn't doing well in the market place at any given time, or if stock is exccesive and needs to be moved. dealerships are usually aware of these trends before the manufacturers so they discount the car themselves. Incentives are from the Manufacturer so usually they will disocunt the car a bit more on top of the incentive. Just my experience with them.

ck37

Damn, my dealer told me they were going down on the first due to the interest rate. I thought he was BSing me. guess not.

gbriank

I'm also hearing about a change in the money factor (currently .0023) due to the rise in interest rates....

ck37

I heard that too. Well it will be interesting to see what Acura gives for incentives after the 5th.

gbriank

I'm betting that Acura will want to see the numbers and how much of an impact the recent incentives had. Dollars to donuts...the incentive will be back!