Great RL Article From The NY Times
04-25-2005, 12:28 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Great RL Article From The NY Times
Originally posted by Narnia:
RL Review/NY Times - Mentions TL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mods, please move if you don't think this belongs here, but I thought people would like to see the nice comments our TL gets in this review of the RL:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/a...print&position=
April 24, 2005
BEHIND THE WHEEL
2005 Acura RL: In Big Leagues Now, Acura Comes Out Swinging
By MICHELLE KREBS
DETROIT -- IN the 1988 baseball film "Bull Durham," the savvy minor league veteran, played by Kevin Costner, coaches a young, not-so-bright hotshot, portrayed by Tim Robbins, on what to say during interviews.
"Learn your clichés," is the advice. "Study them. Know them. They're your friends."
Clichés are close acquaintances, too, of auto executives, who might be speechless if deprived of buzz phrases like "brand D.N.A.," "active lifestyles" and "bold, expressive styling." A particular favorite is "surprise and delight," a term the industry uses to describe unexpected features that, in theory, thrill prospective buyers so much that they whip out their checkbooks.
While many companies use the cliché, few manage to deliver features that are truly surprising and genuinely delightful. But Honda, and more specifically its Acura division, manages the feat quite often. The $34,000 Acura TL, for instance, is not only strikingly styled, it is unexpectedly spirited, has an exceptionally classy interior and a lot of features for the money. Much the same came be said of the least expensive Acuras, the $21,000 RSX coupe and $28,000 TSX sedan.
Acura also defies an industry trend in which more and more features, particularly in luxury models, are options that drive up sticker prices by thousands upon thousands of dollars. By including almost everything as standard equipment, at competitive base prices, Acura surprises and delights customers by providing a lot of value. The formula has worked; Acura sales have jumped, reaching nearly 200,000 last year.
Having taken this mind-set into two test drives of Acura's thoroughly redesigned flagship sedan, the $49,470 RL, I was surprised by my lack of surprise with the car. The RL is more than competent, and in most respects it is very good indeed, but it seems to lack the spirit - the soul, if you will - that I'd sensed in other recent Acuras.
Am I becoming too difficult to delight? Have I grown to expect too much of the unexpected?
Certainly the car, on sale since October, represents a huge step up from the previous RL, which never played in the major leagues with Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. The new RL does, absolutely.
It has all the elements you expect of a modern luxury sport sedan, unless you are a traditionalist who insists on a V-8 engine and rear-wheel drive.
Acura refused to be reined in by those limitations. Instead of a V-8, engineers tinkered with the venerable 3.5-liter V-6 from the old RL, raising horsepower significantly to 300 (from 225 in last year's RL) and peak torque to 260 pound-feet (from 231). In other words, this is a V-6 with the power of a V-8.
Honda says this is the company's most powerful production engine ever, and the zoom is delivered with all the grace, refinement and smoothness that have won respect for Honda as an engine maker.
Also, given today's high gasoline prices, offering the V-6 looks smart. I was nonetheless disappointed by the mileage, rated 18 m.p.g. in town and 26 on the highway, not much better than some V-8's in the class. Like most luxury sedans, the RL is tuned to run on premium fuel.
The engine is married to a five-speed automatic that allows manual, clutchless gear shifting with paddles on the steering wheel. This transmission, like the engine, is silky smooth in the usual Acura fashion.
While a manual gearbox would make the RL feel more sporty, one is not offered.
While Honda (and, by extension, Acura) has built its reputation mostly on front-drive cars, this type of layout has never worked well with large luxury sedans - including the previous RL or the discontinued Cadillac Seville. But rather than develop a rear-drive chassis, Acura engineered an exclusive all-wheel-drive system that it calls Super Handling All-Wheel Drive, or SH-AWD.
Like most all-wheel-drive setups, this one shifts torque back and forth from front to rear - up to 70 percent can go to either axle. Like some systems, it also shifts power from side to side for optimum traction. But it has another twist: on curves, up to 100 percent of the rear torque goes to the outside rear wheel and an accelerator gear speeds up the rotation of that wheel, helping to propel the car around the corner.
The point here is not so much to improve winter traction as to enhance the car's handling on dry pavement. Acura boasts that this setup virtually eliminates both oversteer (a condition in which the rear end tries to swing out) and understeer (when the front end shows a reluctance to turn).
On a Saturday morning in early March, when I absolutely had to be at a school 20 miles away for my son's band competition, I was glad I didn't have to rely on a rear-drive car. An unpredicted storm had dropped several inches of snow, catching the road crews sleeping. We took off in the RL on unplowed country roads northwest of Detroit, and it never wavered even at speeds approaching the legal limits.
Under better weather conditions, I found the RL to be competent, but less exhilarating to drive than its smaller, less expensive siblings. The feel of the big Acura seems closer to that of Lexus than to the competitive German set - it is more comfortable than sporty - though the car doesn't feel as detached from the road as some Lexus models.
The new RL is, in my view, far more attractive than the rather generic-looking model it replaces, though it is neither as distinctive nor as sporty as the smaller TL, which was strikingly redesigned for last year. Acura's designers still seem to be struggling to come up with a family look that works on a big sedan.
The car is three inches shorter and an inch wider than the previous model. At 193.6 inches, it is roughly the same length as its main competitors, but some of those cars have longer wheelbases and roomier cabins. The RL could use more legroom, especially in the rear. The trunk, too, is undersized - two cubic feet less than the smaller Chevy Malibu's.
The interior is luxurious and comfortable, trimmed in fine leather and genuine wood. Every amenity one can imagine - and some previously unimaginable - is included.
In fact, the RL is a technological showcase. Its XM Satellite Radio link provides real-time traffic information in 20 large cities. The navigation system responds to spoken commands and includes Zagat restaurant reviews. There is a superb 10-speaker Bose surround-sound audio system, which actually drowns out noise with counternoise; a hands-free interface for using cellphones through the car's audio system; and the OnStar communications service developed by General Motors.
The RL further excels in safety. It earned the government's highest ratings for all seat positions, for front and side crash tests and for rollovers. Of 18 cars tested in its putative class, it was the only one to get five stars in all categories, and only the third vehicle to score so well.
The RL has standard dual-stage front air bags, side air bags for the front seats, side curtain bags for front and rear passengers, stability control and antilock brakes. Its body design is intended to help protect passengers in the other car in a front collision.
While Honda and Acura have reputations for excellent quality, the first RL I tested came with one glitch. While the rear windows seemed to be closed, they hadn't pushed up snugly into the seal. The first clue was excessive road noise in the cabin; a subsequent rainstorm dampened the back seat.
The second test car seemed flawless, however.
Several colleagues who drove RL's experienced dead batteries; in most cases, the drivers had failed to switch the starter knob to the absolute off position. (The car starts without a key, once sensors detect the key fob inside the car.) The failsafe is to make sure the information monitor tells you "goodbye" before you walk away, so you know the power is off and your battery isn't being drained.
Prices in this class have been creeping up, with options usually pushing stickers above $50,000 - sometimes far above $50,000. In comparison, the RL is surprisingly, delightfully priced: $49,470 covers everything but the monthly subscription to XM Satellite Radio. Given the high level of equipment, this undercuts similarly equipped competitors by thousands of dollars.
Don't expect to dicker at the dealership, however. Edmunds.com, the online buying and research service, reports that customers are paying the full list price.
So why did the RL fail to bowl me over? Its exterior design is handsome, its cabin is scrumptious, its list of standard amenities is long, its safety features are admirable and its price can't be beat.
What's missing is the elusive spirit, a sense of character and heritage, that separates a fine car from a mere machine. Other Acuras have it, and so do some of the RL's rivals.
Maybe it will take time for the RL, having only lately been called up from the minors, to develop a personality that translates into star power. Or maybe, when you are this close to perfection, that is too much to ask.
INSIDE TRACK: It hits the right notes and makes the right moves, but the new RL is no soul train.
__________________
Anthracite/Ebony/5AT/NAV
My Photo Album
RL Review/NY Times - Mentions TL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mods, please move if you don't think this belongs here, but I thought people would like to see the nice comments our TL gets in this review of the RL:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/a...print&position=
April 24, 2005
BEHIND THE WHEEL
2005 Acura RL: In Big Leagues Now, Acura Comes Out Swinging
By MICHELLE KREBS
DETROIT -- IN the 1988 baseball film "Bull Durham," the savvy minor league veteran, played by Kevin Costner, coaches a young, not-so-bright hotshot, portrayed by Tim Robbins, on what to say during interviews.
"Learn your clichés," is the advice. "Study them. Know them. They're your friends."
Clichés are close acquaintances, too, of auto executives, who might be speechless if deprived of buzz phrases like "brand D.N.A.," "active lifestyles" and "bold, expressive styling." A particular favorite is "surprise and delight," a term the industry uses to describe unexpected features that, in theory, thrill prospective buyers so much that they whip out their checkbooks.
While many companies use the cliché, few manage to deliver features that are truly surprising and genuinely delightful. But Honda, and more specifically its Acura division, manages the feat quite often. The $34,000 Acura TL, for instance, is not only strikingly styled, it is unexpectedly spirited, has an exceptionally classy interior and a lot of features for the money. Much the same came be said of the least expensive Acuras, the $21,000 RSX coupe and $28,000 TSX sedan.
Acura also defies an industry trend in which more and more features, particularly in luxury models, are options that drive up sticker prices by thousands upon thousands of dollars. By including almost everything as standard equipment, at competitive base prices, Acura surprises and delights customers by providing a lot of value. The formula has worked; Acura sales have jumped, reaching nearly 200,000 last year.
Having taken this mind-set into two test drives of Acura's thoroughly redesigned flagship sedan, the $49,470 RL, I was surprised by my lack of surprise with the car. The RL is more than competent, and in most respects it is very good indeed, but it seems to lack the spirit - the soul, if you will - that I'd sensed in other recent Acuras.
Am I becoming too difficult to delight? Have I grown to expect too much of the unexpected?
Certainly the car, on sale since October, represents a huge step up from the previous RL, which never played in the major leagues with Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz. The new RL does, absolutely.
It has all the elements you expect of a modern luxury sport sedan, unless you are a traditionalist who insists on a V-8 engine and rear-wheel drive.
Acura refused to be reined in by those limitations. Instead of a V-8, engineers tinkered with the venerable 3.5-liter V-6 from the old RL, raising horsepower significantly to 300 (from 225 in last year's RL) and peak torque to 260 pound-feet (from 231). In other words, this is a V-6 with the power of a V-8.
Honda says this is the company's most powerful production engine ever, and the zoom is delivered with all the grace, refinement and smoothness that have won respect for Honda as an engine maker.
Also, given today's high gasoline prices, offering the V-6 looks smart. I was nonetheless disappointed by the mileage, rated 18 m.p.g. in town and 26 on the highway, not much better than some V-8's in the class. Like most luxury sedans, the RL is tuned to run on premium fuel.
The engine is married to a five-speed automatic that allows manual, clutchless gear shifting with paddles on the steering wheel. This transmission, like the engine, is silky smooth in the usual Acura fashion.
While a manual gearbox would make the RL feel more sporty, one is not offered.
While Honda (and, by extension, Acura) has built its reputation mostly on front-drive cars, this type of layout has never worked well with large luxury sedans - including the previous RL or the discontinued Cadillac Seville. But rather than develop a rear-drive chassis, Acura engineered an exclusive all-wheel-drive system that it calls Super Handling All-Wheel Drive, or SH-AWD.
Like most all-wheel-drive setups, this one shifts torque back and forth from front to rear - up to 70 percent can go to either axle. Like some systems, it also shifts power from side to side for optimum traction. But it has another twist: on curves, up to 100 percent of the rear torque goes to the outside rear wheel and an accelerator gear speeds up the rotation of that wheel, helping to propel the car around the corner.
The point here is not so much to improve winter traction as to enhance the car's handling on dry pavement. Acura boasts that this setup virtually eliminates both oversteer (a condition in which the rear end tries to swing out) and understeer (when the front end shows a reluctance to turn).
On a Saturday morning in early March, when I absolutely had to be at a school 20 miles away for my son's band competition, I was glad I didn't have to rely on a rear-drive car. An unpredicted storm had dropped several inches of snow, catching the road crews sleeping. We took off in the RL on unplowed country roads northwest of Detroit, and it never wavered even at speeds approaching the legal limits.
Under better weather conditions, I found the RL to be competent, but less exhilarating to drive than its smaller, less expensive siblings. The feel of the big Acura seems closer to that of Lexus than to the competitive German set - it is more comfortable than sporty - though the car doesn't feel as detached from the road as some Lexus models.
The new RL is, in my view, far more attractive than the rather generic-looking model it replaces, though it is neither as distinctive nor as sporty as the smaller TL, which was strikingly redesigned for last year. Acura's designers still seem to be struggling to come up with a family look that works on a big sedan.
The car is three inches shorter and an inch wider than the previous model. At 193.6 inches, it is roughly the same length as its main competitors, but some of those cars have longer wheelbases and roomier cabins. The RL could use more legroom, especially in the rear. The trunk, too, is undersized - two cubic feet less than the smaller Chevy Malibu's.
The interior is luxurious and comfortable, trimmed in fine leather and genuine wood. Every amenity one can imagine - and some previously unimaginable - is included.
In fact, the RL is a technological showcase. Its XM Satellite Radio link provides real-time traffic information in 20 large cities. The navigation system responds to spoken commands and includes Zagat restaurant reviews. There is a superb 10-speaker Bose surround-sound audio system, which actually drowns out noise with counternoise; a hands-free interface for using cellphones through the car's audio system; and the OnStar communications service developed by General Motors.
The RL further excels in safety. It earned the government's highest ratings for all seat positions, for front and side crash tests and for rollovers. Of 18 cars tested in its putative class, it was the only one to get five stars in all categories, and only the third vehicle to score so well.
The RL has standard dual-stage front air bags, side air bags for the front seats, side curtain bags for front and rear passengers, stability control and antilock brakes. Its body design is intended to help protect passengers in the other car in a front collision.
While Honda and Acura have reputations for excellent quality, the first RL I tested came with one glitch. While the rear windows seemed to be closed, they hadn't pushed up snugly into the seal. The first clue was excessive road noise in the cabin; a subsequent rainstorm dampened the back seat.
The second test car seemed flawless, however.
Several colleagues who drove RL's experienced dead batteries; in most cases, the drivers had failed to switch the starter knob to the absolute off position. (The car starts without a key, once sensors detect the key fob inside the car.) The failsafe is to make sure the information monitor tells you "goodbye" before you walk away, so you know the power is off and your battery isn't being drained.
Prices in this class have been creeping up, with options usually pushing stickers above $50,000 - sometimes far above $50,000. In comparison, the RL is surprisingly, delightfully priced: $49,470 covers everything but the monthly subscription to XM Satellite Radio. Given the high level of equipment, this undercuts similarly equipped competitors by thousands of dollars.
Don't expect to dicker at the dealership, however. Edmunds.com, the online buying and research service, reports that customers are paying the full list price.
So why did the RL fail to bowl me over? Its exterior design is handsome, its cabin is scrumptious, its list of standard amenities is long, its safety features are admirable and its price can't be beat.
What's missing is the elusive spirit, a sense of character and heritage, that separates a fine car from a mere machine. Other Acuras have it, and so do some of the RL's rivals.
Maybe it will take time for the RL, having only lately been called up from the minors, to develop a personality that translates into star power. Or maybe, when you are this close to perfection, that is too much to ask.
INSIDE TRACK: It hits the right notes and makes the right moves, but the new RL is no soul train.
__________________
Anthracite/Ebony/5AT/NAV
My Photo Album
04-25-2005, 08:56 AM
#2
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Why is it excellent? Because it is how you feel about the car? If this article was nothing but praise for the car would you have posted it and called it excellent? Of course not.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
04-25-2005, 09:20 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Rob L
Why is it excellent? Because it is how you feel about the car? If this article was nothing but praise for the car would you have posted it and called it excellent? Of course not.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
I thought it was a great article. It is not negative. If an article like this was written about the TL I would accept it as a good article. I am not the type of person that wants someone to tell me just what I want to hear. You seem to be that type of person. Only a fool would look as this article as negative. I hope Acura as a company wouldn't look at it as negative, rather than take heed. If I looked at things like you I would never like any TL articles. Still to this day I haven't read an article that just praised the TL and didn't mention any short comings, and most of the time I happen to agree with them but the TL is still a great car. You have a serious issue of insecurity. You seem to need someone to praise your decisions in order for you to feel secure about your purchase. The RL is a fine car but it is not perfect. Get over it. You need to get help.
04-25-2005, 12:02 PM
#4
Frankly, both of you need to chill.
The article is amusing, but I'm not quite sure I understand what the author is talking about with the whole lack of soul thing since he doesn't clearly define what he means.
But there's no need to attack anyone for posting the article.
Keep it up and the both of you are getting a time-out.
Stop bickering already and go to your rooms. No dinner for both of you.
The article is amusing, but I'm not quite sure I understand what the author is talking about with the whole lack of soul thing since he doesn't clearly define what he means.
But there's no need to attack anyone for posting the article.
Keep it up and the both of you are getting a time-out.
Stop bickering already and go to your rooms. No dinner for both of you.
04-25-2005, 12:28 PM
#5
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Maybe he prefers the "soul" of an austere S - Class or perhaps the "spirit" of an Italian car with numerous quirks and quality control issues.
I'll stick to Acura with its "good enough" driving excitement and superior engineering/quality.
I'll stick to Acura with its "good enough" driving excitement and superior engineering/quality.
04-25-2005, 01:24 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Frankly, both of you need to chill.
The article is amusing, but I'm not quite sure I understand what the author is talking about with the whole lack of soul thing since he doesn't clearly define what he means.
But there's no need to attack anyone for posting the article.
Keep it up and the both of you are getting a time-out.
Stop bickering already and go to your rooms. No dinner for both of you.
The article is amusing, but I'm not quite sure I understand what the author is talking about with the whole lack of soul thing since he doesn't clearly define what he means.
But there's no need to attack anyone for posting the article.
Keep it up and the both of you are getting a time-out.
Stop bickering already and go to your rooms. No dinner for both of you.
04-25-2005, 05:18 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by sufall96
RL Review/NY Times
While many companies use the cliché, few manage to deliver features that are truly surprising and genuinely delightful. But Honda, and more specifically its Acura division, manages the feat quite often. ...
Acura also defies an industry trend in which more and more features, particularly in luxury models, are options that drive up sticker prices by thousands upon thousands of dollars. By including almost everything as standard equipment, at competitive base prices, Acura surprises and delights customers by providing a lot of value. The formula has worked; Acura sales have jumped, reaching nearly 200,000 last year.
Having taken this mind-set into two test drives of Acura's thoroughly redesigned flagship sedan, the $49,470 RL, I was surprised ...
While many companies use the cliché, few manage to deliver features that are truly surprising and genuinely delightful. But Honda, and more specifically its Acura division, manages the feat quite often. ...
Acura also defies an industry trend in which more and more features, particularly in luxury models, are options that drive up sticker prices by thousands upon thousands of dollars. By including almost everything as standard equipment, at competitive base prices, Acura surprises and delights customers by providing a lot of value. The formula has worked; Acura sales have jumped, reaching nearly 200,000 last year.
Having taken this mind-set into two test drives of Acura's thoroughly redesigned flagship sedan, the $49,470 RL, I was surprised ...
Its clear from the article the RL failed to deliver on his "bang-for-the-buck" expectations 
He expected the RL to provide a lot of value the way the TSX, TL, and MDX does - what he found was an excellent vehicle that is just as expensive as the competition. I share this feeling as well and have commented on it often on this board. I am still very much interested in the RL; however I have yet to pull the trigger because it does not make as much financial sense as my '04 MDX did.
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04-25-2005, 05:32 PM
#8
Wrong info
Instead of a V-8, engineers tinkered with the venerable 3.5-liter V-6 from the old RL, raising horsepower significantly to 300 (from 225 in last year's RL) and peak torque to 260 pound-feet (from 231). In other words, this is a V-6 with the power of a V-8.
The engine is NOT an update from the old 3.5 RL. It's more related to the MDX/J35 family.
04-25-2005, 09:01 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by BbPhaeton
This author lost credibility with me after this line.
The engine is NOT an update from the old 3.5 RL. It's more related to the MDX/J35 family.
The engine is NOT an update from the old 3.5 RL. It's more related to the MDX/J35 family.
What is your credibility and what is the J35 family?
04-25-2005, 09:11 PM
#10
Originally Posted by sufall96
What is your credibility and what is the J35 family?
04-25-2005, 11:14 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Karl_in_Chicago
The J35 is a specific engine design/family, used in a number of vehicles including the RL. It is a 60 degree V-6. The old RL used the C series motors which were 90 degree V-6's, making it pretty much impossible that "engineers tinkered with the venerable 3.5-liter V-6 from the old RL" - unless one believes that a fundamental change in engine geometry qualifies as "tinkering". As to BbPhaeton's credibility, I'd have to say pretty good since he actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to Honda motors.
Good deal!
04-25-2005, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl_in_Chicago
The J35 is a specific engine design/family, used in a number of vehicles including the RL. It is a 60 degree V-6. The old RL used the C series motors which were 90 degree V-6's, making it pretty much impossible that "engineers tinkered with the venerable 3.5-liter V-6 from the old RL" - unless one believes that a fundamental change in engine geometry qualifies as "tinkering". As to BbPhaeton's credibility, I'd have to say pretty good since he actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to Honda motors.
04-26-2005, 12:12 AM
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Err no, since the J35 is not an engine specifically for any of the vehicles. It is in the Pilot/MDX/Odyssey/RL but they are all different versions. Like the VQ35 from Nissan... would you say that is an SUV engine (Murano), or a sedan engine (Maxima)?
04-26-2005, 03:01 PM
#15
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by catsailr
The article did not seem negative to me, but then again its like most newspaper car reviews that I have read (BS).
As a matter of fact, it was one of the more positive articles on the RL. But RL-philes are waiting for that elusive article which states the RL to be best $50k sedan on the market which it is........................................... so long as you discount the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.
04-26-2005, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Err no, since the J35 is not an engine specifically for any of the vehicles. It is in the Pilot/MDX/Odyssey/RL but they are all different versions. Like the VQ35 from Nissan... would you say that is an SUV engine (Murano), or a sedan engine (Maxima)?
So this engine is different from the old 210hp-225hp anemic 3.5 from the 1st gen?
The VQ is used in tons of cars as well as SUVs. What other cars is the Honda 3.5 used in?
04-26-2005, 11:36 PM
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The Lexus usually comes in behind the RL in comparisons (admittedly ones done in several weeks/days by car mag editors). But that ranking is about right. Nice, nice car, the Lexus, but no RL. The Inifiniti, with its larger V-8 engine (in the M45) or rear drive only V-6 (the M35) will charm the engine-holics with its faster acceleration, though for many, the AWD M35 will take a back seat to the RL as well.
BTW, I owned two Maximas, both of which were extremely reliable and never, ever left me in the lurch. The first was more than decent, but the more recent model was one of the most mediocre (driving) cars I ever had. (And the new one doesn't excite any people in the automotive community either.)
I'd strongly advise you to drive the RL, the M, and Lexus before you rank one ahead of the other. I've driven all three and am more than confident I made the right choice with the RL. (Friends who recently drove all three and did some lengthy comparison shopping bought an RL as well.)
Not trying to convince you. Just offering you another opinion.
BTW, I owned two Maximas, both of which were extremely reliable and never, ever left me in the lurch. The first was more than decent, but the more recent model was one of the most mediocre (driving) cars I ever had. (And the new one doesn't excite any people in the automotive community either.)
I'd strongly advise you to drive the RL, the M, and Lexus before you rank one ahead of the other. I've driven all three and am more than confident I made the right choice with the RL. (Friends who recently drove all three and did some lengthy comparison shopping bought an RL as well.)
Not trying to convince you. Just offering you another opinion.
04-26-2005, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DCRL
The Lexus usually comes in behind the RL in comparisons (admittedly ones done in several weeks/days by car mag editors). But that ranking is about right. Nice, nice car, the Lexus, but no RL. The Inifiniti, with its larger V-8 engine (in the M45) or rear drive only V-6 (the M35) will charm the engine-holics with its faster acceleration, though for many, the AWD M35 will take a back seat to the RL as well.
BTW, I owned two Maximas, both of which were extremely reliable and never, ever left me in the lurch. The first was more than decent, but the more recent model was one of the most mediocre (driving) cars I ever had. (And the new one doesn't excite any people in the automotive community either.)
I'd strongly advise you to drive the RL, the M, and Lexus before you rank one ahead of the other. I've driven all three and am more than confident I made the right choice with the RL. (Friends who recently drove all three and did some lengthy comparison shopping bought an RL as well.)
Not trying to convince you. Just offering you another opinion.
BTW, I owned two Maximas, both of which were extremely reliable and never, ever left me in the lurch. The first was more than decent, but the more recent model was one of the most mediocre (driving) cars I ever had. (And the new one doesn't excite any people in the automotive community either.)
I'd strongly advise you to drive the RL, the M, and Lexus before you rank one ahead of the other. I've driven all three and am more than confident I made the right choice with the RL. (Friends who recently drove all three and did some lengthy comparison shopping bought an RL as well.)
Not trying to convince you. Just offering you another opinion.
04-27-2005, 01:10 AM
#19
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I can understand you may have a worry about resale values, but do you really base your opinion of a car on its sales record? I test drove 4, repeat, FOUR Chrysler 300's before I gave up on the vehicle. Except for tremendous acceleration, I didn't care terribly much for the handling of it, the styling, hell, I couldn't even see out of the thing well with its slit-like windows. I just didn't like the vehicle. Should I have bought it instead of the RL since it sells so well?
If Acura is content to advertise the minimum amount it does on the RL, perhaps the company is just concerned with getting the vehicle right for now. Some people have reported problems, not at all the typical Acura ownership experience.
I have enjoyed the car every moment I've had it though. And I've not had a single thing go wrong, not the door handles, not the brakes, not even the XM and Nav. Every aspect of the car has been letter perfect, something I never got with any vehicle I've ever owned, including my Mercedes E Class.
Sorry to speak on and on, but my RL has been tremendous and a kick to drive every day. I'd feel disingenuous to the people who made it if I said otherwise.
If Acura is content to advertise the minimum amount it does on the RL, perhaps the company is just concerned with getting the vehicle right for now. Some people have reported problems, not at all the typical Acura ownership experience.
I have enjoyed the car every moment I've had it though. And I've not had a single thing go wrong, not the door handles, not the brakes, not even the XM and Nav. Every aspect of the car has been letter perfect, something I never got with any vehicle I've ever owned, including my Mercedes E Class.
Sorry to speak on and on, but my RL has been tremendous and a kick to drive every day. I'd feel disingenuous to the people who made it if I said otherwise.
04-27-2005, 06:24 AM
#20
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Sales numbers mean very little to me as far as the quality of a car. Lexus has earned the reputation of one of the landmark luxury cars, and the BMW name has an aura about it. I think a lot of people buy a particular car because of the name. Some like for their neighbors to know they drive a Lexus or BMW. Acura owners don't give a s**t what the neighbors think.
04-27-2005, 08:01 AM
#21
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DCRL
I can understand you may have a worry about resale values, but do you really base your opinion of a car on its sales record? I test drove 4, repeat, FOUR Chrysler 300's before I gave up on the vehicle. Except for tremendous acceleration, I didn't care terribly much for the handling of it, the styling, hell, I couldn't even see out of the thing well with its slit-like windows. I just didn't like the vehicle.
04-27-2005, 08:54 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
I hope sales pick up, because the market doesn't agree.
Originally Posted by DCRL
I can understand you may have a worry about resale values, but do you really base your opinion of a car on its sales record?
Sorry to speak on and on, but my RL has been tremendous and a kick to drive every day. I'd feel disingenuous to the people who made it if I said otherwise.
Sorry to speak on and on, but my RL has been tremendous and a kick to drive every day. I'd feel disingenuous to the people who made it if I said otherwise.
At the present time (that could change) I do not see the RL as providing me with the same type of value. That is my current perception and that could change. Acura has their TL and MDX sitting at an excellent price point with respect to the competition in my opinion; one can buy either and feel good about the dollars spent. The RL on the other hand does not sit as well in the competitions price range - currently I know that I do NOT feel comfortable paying what my dealers are asking.
Is the RL a great vehicle? I think it is! Will it reward me with great value for my money? I am not yet convinced.
04-27-2005, 11:59 AM
#23
The Acura Tranny Killer
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I think Acura is getting a little 'buried' in advertising from Infiniti (booklets in every damned car magazine under the sun) and Lexus (commercials with every damned car show on earth, as well as every damned old folks show on earth).
While Honda/Acura may have the 'better' car (arguably), people tend to see these advertisements and go for a test drive with what they see on tv and in what falls out of their Car & Driver when they pick it up (i learned in MBA school that it's a good idea to not glue your little seperate booklets/cards into the magazines you advertise in (unless it's a shelf version of the mag), the stuff falling right out of the magazine tends to instantly focus most of the attention on what fell out).
Honda/Acura needs to invest more money in cool advertising (i liked that Infinity booklet, it didn't tell you anything about the car but it's was right in your face).
Tracer
While Honda/Acura may have the 'better' car (arguably), people tend to see these advertisements and go for a test drive with what they see on tv and in what falls out of their Car & Driver when they pick it up (i learned in MBA school that it's a good idea to not glue your little seperate booklets/cards into the magazines you advertise in (unless it's a shelf version of the mag), the stuff falling right out of the magazine tends to instantly focus most of the attention on what fell out).
Honda/Acura needs to invest more money in cool advertising (i liked that Infinity booklet, it didn't tell you anything about the car but it's was right in your face).
Tracer
04-27-2005, 12:18 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Tracer
I think Acura is getting a little 'buried' in advertising from Infiniti (booklets in every damned car magazine under the sun) and Lexus (commercials with every damned car show on earth, as well as every damned old folks show on earth).
While Honda/Acura may have the 'better' car (arguably), people tend to see these advertisements and go for a test drive with what they see on tv and in what falls out of their Car & Driver when they pick it up (i learned in MBA school that it's a good idea to not glue your little seperate booklets/cards into the magazines you advertise in (unless it's a shelf version of the mag), the stuff falling right out of the magazine tends to instantly focus most of the attention on what fell out).
Honda/Acura needs to invest more money in cool advertising (i liked that Infinity booklet, it didn't tell you anything about the car but it's was right in your face).
Tracer
While Honda/Acura may have the 'better' car (arguably), people tend to see these advertisements and go for a test drive with what they see on tv and in what falls out of their Car & Driver when they pick it up (i learned in MBA school that it's a good idea to not glue your little seperate booklets/cards into the magazines you advertise in (unless it's a shelf version of the mag), the stuff falling right out of the magazine tends to instantly focus most of the attention on what fell out).
Honda/Acura needs to invest more money in cool advertising (i liked that Infinity booklet, it didn't tell you anything about the car but it's was right in your face).
Tracer
Honda/Acura has always been weak on advertising, but in the past, they have never really needed it to sell cars. Their products were good enough to attract business on their own.
However, playing in this new class requires a lot more advertising money be spent and a crack ad agency, which RPA just hasn't proven itself to be lately.
04-27-2005, 01:51 PM
#26
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Honda/Acura has always been weak on advertising, but in the past, they have never really needed it to sell cars. Their products were good enough to attract business on their own.
However, playing in this new class requires a lot more advertising money be spent and a crack ad agency, which RPA just hasn't proven itself to be lately.
Just to clarify, I regularly see Honda Accord and Civic commercials. But what I've also noticed is that most of the Honda/Acura advertising i've seen have been for promoting their certified used products, which is a worthy consideration.
Now Acura advertisements seem to be few and far between.
04-27-2005, 01:58 PM
#27
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I actually see a fair number of MDX and RL commercials here in the Houston area - however not as many as for Infiniti's new M-Class. I would say that Acura advertising is on par with Lexus in our area, but behind Infiniti.
04-28-2005, 08:16 AM
#28
Racer
Thread Starter
Here in New Orleans, I see more New GS commercials than anything. An RL commercial every now and then and hardly ever a new M commercial either. I guess the companies run particular commercials more in different areas.
04-28-2005, 09:06 AM
#29
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by msu79gt82
I actually see a fair number of MDX and RL commercials here in the Houston area - however not as many as for Infiniti's new M-Class. I would say that Acura advertising is on par with Lexus in our area, but behind Infiniti.
While I doubt that contributed to that many Infiniti sales, it did present the brand well as being upscale.
04-28-2005, 11:39 PM
#30
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I was recently all over Europe and noticed quite significant advertizing from Lexus, but none from Infinity or Acura...in fact in the UK the Acura brand just isn't known at all...kinda hard to boast about your new car when they don't even know the manufacturer, let alone the model
Pete
Pete
04-29-2005, 12:32 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by petemc
I was recently all over Europe and noticed quite significant advertizing from Lexus, but none from Infinity or Acura...in fact in the UK the Acura brand just isn't known at all...kinda hard to boast about your new car when they don't even know the manufacturer, let alone the model
Pete
Pete
Certain car companies are more popular in certain areas. That's equivalant to someone from Europe coming here to the states and boasting about their new Alfa Romeo. It may be a fine car but not many people here in the states know about it.
04-29-2005, 08:39 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
You don't see ads for Acura in Europe because there is no Acura brand in Europe. Toyota, on the other hand, has been really pushing to establish the Lexus brand in Europe. Eventually, Lexus will be global; it will even exist in Japan. However, Acura is just a North American thing for now and the near future.
04-29-2005, 10:16 AM
#33
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
You don't see ads for Acura in Europe because there is no Acura brand in Europe. Toyota, on the other hand, has been really pushing to establish the Lexus brand in Europe. Eventually, Lexus will be global; it will even exist in Japan. However, Acura is just a North American thing for now and the near future.
Same with Infiniti...You have to remember that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti were established as brands to tap a status hungry American market. In Europe where even MB and BMW have entry level cars, the "status" assigned to brands basically doesn't exist. The "status" is attached to the car itself, the way it SHOULD be.
04-29-2005, 10:29 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
True. It would have been very difficult to get Americans to buy a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan branded product for over $30,000, just like it is is difficult for Hyundai to sell a over $30K car now. Also, starting new brands allowed those companies to force new car dealerships to be created with new criteria to follow. That really worked in Lexus' favor, since Toyota set high standards for the Lexus dealerships.
04-23-2006, 08:05 AM
#35
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Hi all,
I bought a 2002 RL a while back. LOVE the car but HATE the mileage, 14mpg's. Anyways, I read some of the e mails and one guy said there's a button in the glove compartment that exposes a, "hidden compartment" for the Owners Manual.
I just finished looking all over. Anyone know where the darn button is?
I bought a 2002 RL a while back. LOVE the car but HATE the mileage, 14mpg's. Anyways, I read some of the e mails and one guy said there's a button in the glove compartment that exposes a, "hidden compartment" for the Owners Manual.
I just finished looking all over. Anyone know where the darn button is?
04-23-2006, 09:44 AM
#36
Originally Posted by johncuse
Hi all,
I bought a 2002 RL a while back. LOVE the car but HATE the mileage, 14mpg's. Anyways, I read some of the e mails and one guy said there's a button in the glove compartment that exposes a, "hidden compartment" for the Owners Manual.
I just finished looking all over. Anyone know where the darn button is?
I bought a 2002 RL a while back. LOVE the car but HATE the mileage, 14mpg's. Anyways, I read some of the e mails and one guy said there's a button in the glove compartment that exposes a, "hidden compartment" for the Owners Manual.
I just finished looking all over. Anyone know where the darn button is?
It's in the 2005/06 RL's....
04-23-2006, 11:50 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by Rob L
Why is it excellent? Because it is how you feel about the car? If this article was nothing but praise for the car would you have posted it and called it excellent? Of course not.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
Why do you continue to post here with your negative vibe for the car since it has shortcomings that you don't like? I dont get humans who do that...you have issues with the car, great, we are all happy for you. Why continue to post them over and over like somehow the first 20 million times weren't enough? Your point has been made!
Oh and the car has soul/spirit. It drives more like my old IS300 than my parent's loaded LS430. Seeing as the IS300 is known to be a great handling and "spirited" car I think that IMO says the RL has spirit.
04-23-2006, 12:11 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
I think it is all about the details. If a person does not notice the details, then s/he can be perfectly happy with the TL. On the other hand, if a person notices the details such as steering feel, torque steer, real wood vs. fake wood, et cetera, then that person could benefit from the RL. I admire the TL, but I chose the RL because of the details.
01-17-2007, 02:03 PM
#39
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How's your RL after One Year
I notice that it is some nine months since the last post on this thread and I thought it would be interesting to hear from the early owners of the RL as to how they now feel about their vehicles?
I have recently traded my 04 BMW X3 with 14k miles for a 05 RL with 14k miles. I paid 36k for the RL with a trade of 25K for the BMW. I had a 02 TL S and I was impressed with the overall quality and the very fine engine and excellent mpg. When I traded up to the BMW it was because I needed four wheel drive here in Colorado.
If you compare the RL with BMW offerings you will find the RL to be the better buy. It has all the driver electronics that would cost you an arm and a leg on a BMW, and like all Honda vehicles you will get reliability. For instance I also have a CR-V in the garage which has 99k miles and the engine is just as good as the day I bought it, with no oil leaks and all I have ever done is change the oil and air filter. Compare this with any BMW and you wonder how people keep going back for more. It is a known fact that the automatics on most BMW's will last about a 100k and the radiators about 80/90k before you have a major problem and have to replace one or the other of these basic items. Also I did not think the 3.0 six was all that great at 225hp. I know that they now have a new 3.0 engine which puts out a lot more but it is still a long way from 300hp as in the RL.
I think the RL may be over priced but this should not cloud the view of owners as to the fine workmanship and solid performance of this vehicle. If you are thinking about a purchase I don't see how you can go wrong buying a one year old with low milage like mine. It looks new and I am real happy with my choice.
I have recently traded my 04 BMW X3 with 14k miles for a 05 RL with 14k miles. I paid 36k for the RL with a trade of 25K for the BMW. I had a 02 TL S and I was impressed with the overall quality and the very fine engine and excellent mpg. When I traded up to the BMW it was because I needed four wheel drive here in Colorado.
If you compare the RL with BMW offerings you will find the RL to be the better buy. It has all the driver electronics that would cost you an arm and a leg on a BMW, and like all Honda vehicles you will get reliability. For instance I also have a CR-V in the garage which has 99k miles and the engine is just as good as the day I bought it, with no oil leaks and all I have ever done is change the oil and air filter. Compare this with any BMW and you wonder how people keep going back for more. It is a known fact that the automatics on most BMW's will last about a 100k and the radiators about 80/90k before you have a major problem and have to replace one or the other of these basic items. Also I did not think the 3.0 six was all that great at 225hp. I know that they now have a new 3.0 engine which puts out a lot more but it is still a long way from 300hp as in the RL.
I think the RL may be over priced but this should not cloud the view of owners as to the fine workmanship and solid performance of this vehicle. If you are thinking about a purchase I don't see how you can go wrong buying a one year old with low milage like mine. It looks new and I am real happy with my choice.
01-17-2007, 03:16 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by chuck abbott
I think the RL may be over priced but this should not cloud the view of owners as to the fine workmanship and solid performance of this vehicle.
LL